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== Ambiguous Nationality ==
== Update Neil Diamond ==


I don't know how to edit the Neil Diamond article -can someone help or do it for me? Here's the edit:
The article says he is "American". America has been the name of the whole continent since 1507, when Martin Waldseemuller wrote it on a map for the first time, and he wrote it over Brazil. America comprises 35 countries. Justin Bieber is American from Canada. Pope Francis is American from Argentina. Get the concept? The name of the country would be more accurate. Neil Diamond is from the United States, which is one of the 35 countries in America. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/181.47.183.193|181.47.183.193]] ([[User talk:181.47.183.193#top|talk]]) 02:40, 23 February 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


Nick Fradiani, who won American Idol in 2015, succeeded Will Swenson as Neil Diamond in "A Beautiful Noise" on October 31, 2023.
:How weird. What would you then say is the word for someone from the United States of America? You're suggesting that a person from Canada is not a Canadian but an American? That an Argentinian is called an American? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/59.102.9.114|59.102.9.114]] ([[User talk:59.102.9.114#top|talk]]) 15:49, 10 June 2021 (UTC)</small>


Multiple sources, including Broadway News. [[User:Marlene41|Marlene41]] ([[User talk:Marlene41|talk]]) 05:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
== Album sales, first paragraph ==


== Neil Diamond missing information ==
I just added that Diamond has sold 130 million albums, and removed the wikilink to the [[List of best-selling music artists]]. I did this to maintain consistency -- sources vary on the number of albums he has sold, and while the best selling artists of all time article asserts that he has sold 100 million albums, I believe that sources such as ''[http://www.newsweek.com/what-wrong-neil-diamond-legendary-singer-diagnosed-parkinsons-disease-will-no-787574 Newsweek]'' and the [http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-42784305 BBC] are accurate in reporting 130 million. [[User:JSFarman|JSFarman]] ([[User talk:JSFarman|talk]]) 21:33, 23 January 2018 (UTC)


i recently saw Neil Diamond show on Broadway Beautiful Noise. After reading Wiki page I noticed a big part of Neil's early success was due to Ellie Greenwich--also in Brill Building. There is no mention of her. She even convinced him to keep his name which is Neil Diamond. [[User:NancyjaneR|NancyjaneR]] ([[User talk:NancyjaneR|talk]]) 14:10, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
== Consensus needed: 100 million worldwide sales vs. 130 ==

According to these sources, Neil Diamond has sold more than 130 million albums:
*[http://www.newsweek.com/what-wrong-neil-diamond-legendary-singer-diagnosed-parkinsons-disease-will-no-787574 ''Newseek'']: "Diamond has sold more than 130 million albums worldwide and 38 of his singles have made it to the Top 40, according to the academy."
*[http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-42784305 BBC]: "Diamond, who has sold over 130 million albums worldwide, is set to receive a lifetime achievement award at Sunday's Grammy Awards."
*[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/01/22/neil-diamond-says-he-has-parkinsons-disease-will-retire-from-touring/?utm_term=.ff4be833ee33 ''Washington Post'' ]: "He is one of the world’s most popular recording artists, having sold more than 130 million records. At least 53 of his songs have landed on the Billboard Top 100 chart and 55 albums on the Billboard 200 chart. He was inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in 2011."
*[https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/us-singer-neil-diamond-retires-from-touring-after-parkinsons-diagnosis-r6dgxr78k/ ''The Times'' (UK)]: "He has sold more than 130 million albums worldwide, making him one of the bestselling artists in history."
*[http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/neil-diamonds-golden-anniversary-tour-comes-to-australia-20171109-gzhyrj.html ''Sydney Morning Herald'']:"...he was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and he performed to a crowd of more than 100,000 at the Glastonbury Festival. Over his long career he has sold 130 million albums."

There are many other sources for 130 million. [https://www.google.com/search?q=Neil+Diamond+%22130+million%22&oq=Neil+Diamond+%22130+million%22&aqs=chrome..69i57j35i39l2.12269j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 A search on Google using the keywords "Neil Diamond 130 million" returns (way more) than 100,000 results]. [[User:Politsi|Politsi]] asserts that he has sold 100 million worldwide, today using [https://news.sky.com/story/neil-diamond-to-stop-touring-after-parkinsons-diagnosis-11219060 Sky News]: "The Rock and Roll Hall of Famer is one of the best selling musicians of all time and is '''estimated''' to have sold '''around''' 100 million records." Emphasis mine -- those are not terms a major media organization uses when they are reporting a fact. (My guess is it came from the [[List of best-selling music artists]], which itself uses "claimed" and "reputed" as a disclaimer of sorts. )

Can we get a consensus? Thanks. [[User:JSFarman|JSFarman]] ([[User talk:JSFarman|talk]]) 16:39, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
:Sky News is the most reliable source above all of sources that you have mention. You should understand the meaning of INFLATED sales figure for promotional purpose. [[User:Politsi|Politsi]] ([[User talk:Politsi|talk]]) 16:50, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
::There are also many sources that claim 100 million records including all of the following [http://www.belgrade.co.uk/event/a-beautiful-noise-neil-diamond belgrade.co.uk], [http://globegazette.com/vee-family-to-perform-songs-of-neil-diamond-at-clear/article_88e7a645-da68-5077-89dd-b500618a447d.html globegazette.com], [http://www.republican-eagle.com/entertainment/4333370-vee-family-celebrates-neil-diamonds-music republican-eagle.com]. Based on Dimaond's available certified sales ([http://www.mediafire.com/file/yd2fb6bwc23j226/Neil+Diamond%27s+Certified+Sales%282%29.doc 68.3 million units]), the 100 million is more reasonable. Also, those sources that claim 130 million ''albums'', are sources that should not be used as Diamond's records sales are based on albums, singles and videos. So, 100 million in album sales would be more inflated than claims such as 130 million ''records'' (which stands for albums, singles, videos). Either way, 130 million claims should be avoided.--[[User:Harout72|Harout72]] ([[User talk:Harout72|talk]]) 17:38, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
:::[http://www.belgrade.co.uk/event/a-beautiful-noise-neil-diamond/ belgrade.co.uk] is published by [[Belgrade Theatre]]; the 100 million figure comes a promotional piece about an upcoming performance there based on Neil Diamond's music. The ''[[Globe Gazette]]'' is a daily in Mason City, Iowa with a circulation of 19,000; the article you're sourcing is [http://globegazette.com/vee-family-to-perform-songs-of-neil-diamond-at-clear/article "Vee Family to Perform Songs of Neil Diamond at Clear Lakes Surf Ballroom" ] the ''[[Red Wing Republican Eagle]]'' (circulation 6200, twice weekly) is another article about [http://www.republican-eagle.com/entertainment/4333370-vee-family-celebrates-neil-diamonds-music a Vee Family performance at a local venue].
:::Also (and please correct me if I'm misunderstanding), the sources that I've quoted above specify albums; singles and videos would add to the 100 million figure. Neil Diamond has 38 hit singles, many of them released during the 60s-80s heyday of the single format. ''[[Sweet Caroline]]'' alone sold 2 million copies and it's one of 53 (albeit lesser) singles. Again, I am perhaps misunderstanding, and if so, apologies. [[User:JSFarman|JSFarman]] ([[User talk:JSFarman|talk]]) 18:20, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
::::Reliable sources are reliable sources whether they are circulated in the population of 10 million or 10,000. Diamond does not have 33 hit singles, he has [https://www.billboard.com/music/neil-diamond/chart-history/hot-100 three number 1 singles, and ten top-10 singles], the rest of them are not hit singles. Most of your sources speak of album sales including [http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-42784305 BBC], [https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/us-singer-neil-diamond-retires-from-touring-after-parkinsons-diagnosis-r6dgxr78k/ The Times UK], [http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/music/neil-diamonds-golden-anniversary-tour-comes-to-australia-20171109-gzhyrj.html Sydney Morning Herald]. There should not be such a huge 61+ million units of gap between artist's available certified sales and the claimed figure.--[[User:Harout72|Harout72]] ([[User talk:Harout72|talk]]) 18:41, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

:::::Albums are full length works. "Records" would increase the 100 million figure -- the term includes singles and other formats; in the US, technically, it refers to all formats of recorded music (although for NARAS it specifically means one recorded song). See the column for "other formats" on an RIAA chart [http://www.riaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/RIAA-Mid-Year-2017-News-and-Notes2.pdf here], which separates albums and singles, and demonstrates the vast between the two in terms of sales. (You may be interested in the RIAA change in methodology, [https://www.riaa.com/riaa-debuts-album-award-streams/ announced today].)
:::::Neil Diamond has had [https://www.billboard.com/music/neil-diamond/chart-history/hot-100/song/336105 53 songs on the ''Billboard'' chart] - the term "hit" is not limited to the [https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/chart-beat/7639955/neil-diamond-adult-contemporary-chart-christmas-medley Top 10 on the Hot 100 ].
:::::I'm going to refrain from commenting further. I've expressed my thoughts on the subject, and I'm interested in other people's views. Thanks. [[User:JSFarman|JSFarman]] ([[User talk:JSFarman|talk]]) 20:00, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
::::::Your source here doesn't speak of 38 top-10 singles on Hot 100, it speaks of adult contemporary chart. Sales of singles in US are calculated based on Hot 100. Neil Diamond's Gold and Platinum certified sales of [http://www.mediafire.com/file/yd2fb6bwc23j226/Neil+Diamond%27s+Certified+Sales%282%29.doc 68.3 million units] includes Albums, singles, videos. His albums certified sales stand at 62 million which creates even a bigger gap between those sources that claim just 130 million ''album sales''.--[[User:Harout72|Harout72]] ([[User talk:Harout72|talk]]) 20:17, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
::::::: The Hot 100 is a hybrid chart. It combines sales (physical and digital) and airplay (passive and on-demand), and ranks titles accordingly. (Here's the [https://www.billboard.com/biz/billboard-charts-legend chart legend]).
::::::: The Hot 100 chart notes RIAA gold and platinum certifications only. Many singles which have not hit gold or platinum status appear on the Hot 100; not selling 500,000 units is not equal to selling zero units. I am perplexed by your methodology, particularly when you're talking about an artist that has had 53 singles on the Billboard charts, beginning in 1969. But that's hardly relevant -- the 130 million figure as used in the sources above (and NARAS) reflect album sales, and I believe we are addressing sourcing, not the formula used to calculate claimed sales on the best selling artists page. [[User:JSFarman|JSFarman]] ([[User talk:JSFarman|talk]]) 02:59, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
{{outdent}}
I'm not suggesting that the singles that have failed to reach Gold status have sold 0 copies, but it also doesn't mean that they could've necessarily sold 100,000s of thousands of units. For example the single [https://www.billboard.com/music/neil-diamond/chart-history/hot-100/song/572455 "I Got the feeling"] which has peaked at No.16 and spent only nine weeks on the chart could not have sold more than 100,000-200,000 units. Or [https://www.billboard.com/music/neil-diamond/chart-history/hot-100/song/572206 "You Got to me"], peaked at No.18 and only eight weeks on the chart could not have generated major sales, anywhere close to Gold status. 27 singles have not even entered the top-20, thus, couldn't have generated any major sales. [[Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources#Context matters|Reliability of the source depends on the context. Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made in the Wikipedia article and is an appropriate source for that content]]. This is why one should look at certified sales to see if the stated figure is true or just tossed about for promotional reasons. The latter is the case here.--[[User:Harout72|Harout72]] ([[User talk:Harout72|talk]]) 03:52, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

== This seems to be one of those weird articles where someone has an agenda ==

Multiple and I maean many a multiple articles from a single google show reliable sources showing he has sold in excess of 130 million albums, yet people seem to be somehow determined to not show it.

Why?

The bloke has sold that many albums. Semantics about albums and records pretty laughable also

--[[User:TheMightyAllBlacks|TheMightyAllBlacks]] ([[User talk:TheMightyAllBlacks|talk]]) 12:30, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

:I agree. It's not people, though -- it's two editors. I got tired of arguing about it. See dialogue above. And change the number if you have a source that they (the previous mentioned editors) deem reliable. [[User:JSFarman|JSFarman]] ([[User talk:JSFarman|talk]]) 16:23, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 05:18, 20 October 2024

Update Neil Diamond

[edit]

I don't know how to edit the Neil Diamond article -can someone help or do it for me? Here's the edit:

Nick Fradiani, who won American Idol in 2015, succeeded Will Swenson as Neil Diamond in "A Beautiful Noise" on October 31, 2023.

Multiple sources, including Broadway News. Marlene41 (talk) 05:09, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Neil Diamond missing information

[edit]

i recently saw Neil Diamond show on Broadway Beautiful Noise. After reading Wiki page I noticed a big part of Neil's early success was due to Ellie Greenwich--also in Brill Building. There is no mention of her. She even convinced him to keep his name which is Neil Diamond. NancyjaneR (talk) 14:10, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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