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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 August 2021 and 16 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Brinturner, Josephlinger, Zackattack932.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 12:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"sounders" and "matriarchy"

the first time the word "sounders" occurs, it should be explained. and the article says "female dominated sounders" with a link at "female dominated" to "matriarchy", which is about human beings, not pigs. This linkage is either ignorant or a form of original research by someone who really wants to compare human matriarchies with groups of wild pigs. --142.163.194.161 (talk) 22:18, 24 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References for setosus

@BhagyaMani The Boddaert citation isn't adequate to explain synonymy. This is the original description, but for it to be considered synonymous with scrofa there needs to a taxonomic review. Thus the additional source given. I am not sure why that citation was described as incomplete. Jameel the Saluki (talk) 08:33, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A source without an author, year, publisher or journal is incomplete. The proper ref for synonyms is anyway MSW 3, unless a later revised taxonomy was published. – BhagyaMani (talk) 13:41, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure how that response addresses the issue. It appears that you are stating that setosus is not a vaid synonym. If that is the case it needs to be removed. I was happy to keep it, but it needed at least some valid reference to support it. Could you please supply a response to state why you think that setosus should remain, but without any valid citation. Also please explain the removal of the citation provided, instead of completing it if you think that it doesn't meet particular standards. Also there are no guidelines that I am aware of that state that a citation must have the characteristics that you claim. This is the recommended citation from the site in question "Sus setosus in GBIF Secretariat (2022). GBIF Backbone Taxonomy. Checklist dataset https://doi.org/10.15468/39omei accessed via GBIF.org on 2022-12-23.". It states its source is TAXREF "Gargominy O (2022). TAXREF. Version 4.9. UMS PatriNat (OFB-CNRS-MNHN), Paris. Checklist dataset https://doi.org/10.15468/vqueam accessed via GBIF.org on 2022-12-23.".

I would be helpful if you could explain yourself further. Jameel the Saluki (talk) 08:53, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

According to MSW 3, setosus is a syn of the nominate subspecies, hence not of the species, see ^[1] Therefore I moved this entry. – BhagyaMani (talk) 16:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Grubb, P. (2005). "Subspecies Sus scrofa scrofa". In Wilson, D.E.; Reeder, D.M (eds.). Mammal Species of the World: A Taxonomic and Geographic Reference (3rd ed.). Johns Hopkins University Press. pp. 637–722. ISBN 978-0-8018-8221-0. OCLC 62265494.

Terminology

Could someone knowledgeable on the subject take a look at this section please. The first sentence seems vague, a couple of common confusions could do with clarification; the gender issue (acceptability of 'wild boar sow') and the plural issue ('wild boar' and 'wild boars'). Many thanks Obscurasky (talk) 14:21, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure what the confusion is. Boar and boars are both used as the plural form. What is acceptable in English is generally up to which audience you are aiming at. If you find 'wild boar sow' cumbersome then don't use it. Jameel the Saluki (talk) 09:06, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Could be nominated for good article

I see regular editors here have done an impressive job and if one of you is interested I think it is ready for Wikipedia:Good article nominations/Instructions Chidgk1 (talk) 17:11, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Grubb, P. (2005). "Subspecies Sus scrofa scrofa". In Wilson, D.E.; Reeder, D.M (eds.). Mammal Species of the World: A Taxonomic and Geographic Reference (3rd ed.). Johns Hopkins University Press. pp. 637–722. ISBN 978-0-8018-8221-0. OCLC 62265494.

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+[[File:Sciences humaines.svg|40px]] This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2021-08-18">18 August 2021</span> and <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2021-12-16">16 December 2021</span>. Further details are available [[Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/West_Virginia_University/Introduction_to_Human_Geography_(Fall_2021)|on the course page]]. Student editor(s): [[User:Brinturner|Brinturner]], [[User:Josephlinger|Josephlinger]], [[User:Zackattack932|Zackattack932]].
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-== Rename article title "Wild boar" to "Boar" ==
-Calling the boar as wild boar is pleonasm. Its like calling grandma, old grandma.
-Of course they are wild, it is obvious to everyone and a unspoken rule, only if there was a domestic boar, it would be justifiable to call this wild boar.
-I would understand if there were more than one species of boar, like gray wolves are called gray wolves because there is more than one species of wolves, that way the word wild boar is also justifiable, if the word wild refered to the aggressive nature of the boar.
-But there is only one species that is called boar, so its unnecessary.
-I have never heard anyone call this animal wild boar, except on Wikipedia.
-I would not be so extremely politically correct to avoid calling them boars just because a few countryside locals from US apply this to badgers and raccoons.
-Maybe some Americans apply this to badgers and raccoons, YES Americans are influential, but Americans should note that they are not the center of the world, the most common name is not neccessarily American, the Moose is adopted as the most common name not because it is American but because it is the most common name, British watched American wildlife documentaries and cartoons and adopted the word moose instead of elk, thus making the word elk far less common in Britain.
-Just because it applies somewhere, it does not mean it applies to the whole world.
-Wikipedia promotes that article names should be the most common one, so cuttles are called cuttlefish even though they are not fish.
-I am sure that the most common name for this animal is boar and not wild boar.
+{{small|Above undated message substituted from [[Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment]] by [[User:PrimeBOT|PrimeBOT]] ([[User talk:PrimeBOT|talk]]) 12:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)}}
-In collective thought, I am sure that almost all people think of this wild swine when they hear the word boar.
+== "sounders" and "matriarchy" ==
-:I highly agree with your explanation. Even more, domestic pigs aren't called "domestic boars". In my opinion, this page should be simply "pig" or "common pig" to distinguish it from the other pigs in the genus [[Pig|Sus]]. The word "wild" is an adjective and there is no way to distinguish it from the domesticated forms. Of course, we all know that "wild boars" came out before the domestic pigs and animals without humans are all wild. You can only apply the "wild" if it's in a sentence that includes their domestic descendants and to compare each other especially when the main subjects are the domestic pigs. "More" even more, the word "boar" is the males of the pigs, which if someone describes a picture of a male wild boar, "A wild boar boar" (as opposed to the wild boar sow), which looks like a repeated word and is wrong and makes it rather complicated and confusing. Though it can be described as, "A male wild boar", but limiting the choices of the sentence types, unlike the female wild boar as, "A wild boar sow", which is rather correct. I'm highly disappointed with the common name so I renamed it in my page as simple as "pig" or "common pig" to distinguish it from the other species of pig. It also happens in the other animals, though not the proper one. For example, "cow" is the most common name for the cattle, but it is considered a colloquial term for the cattle. And that's because of what I said before that when referring to the females of that type of animal, it would be rather complicated and confusing. [[User:Jaspergeli|Jaspergeli]] ([[User talk:Jaspergeli|talk]]) 14:20, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
-::It would be incorrect and misleading to rename this article as simply Boar.  As you yourself note, Jaspergeli, boar is the male pig, (more specifically, a full-grown, sexually functioning male).  Makes no difference if it's wild, domesticated, or feral.  "Wild boar" is itself a colloquialism, much like calling all cattle ''cows'', we've come to call all wild pigs ''boars''.  Really, the most accurate name for the article would be Wild Pig (or perhaps Wild Swine).  True, many people think that any pig not living on a farm is a boar, but they'll often apply that term to both wild pigs and feral pigs equally.  Feral pigs aren't the same as the wild pigs (the topic of this article)  And, of course, the term boar is used by people who raise domesticated pigs to refer to their sexually mature, uncastrated, yet very much domesticated males
+the first time the word "sounders" occurs, it should be explained.
-::Now, I know on one hand the use of language changes with time, and maybe we're seeing a change in action.  At the same time, this is an encyclopedia, and correct terminology should be used and explained.  If you don't want to call this article Wild Pig because "Wild Boar" is more popular in the general parlance to refer to all wild swine regardless of age or gender, that's fine.  But dropping the wild from the colloquial 'Wild Boar' drifts into inaccurate and encyclopedic territory.  The original poster incorrectly assumed boar = wild pig, and that all boars were thus wild.  This is inaccurate.  [[Special:Contributions/71.226.227.121|71.226.227.121]] ([[User talk:71.226.227.121|talk]]) 21:32, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
+and the article says "female dominated sounders" with a link at "female dominated" to "matriarchy", which is about human beings, not pigs. This linkage is either ignorant or a form of original research by someone who really wants to compare human matriarchies with groups of wild pigs. --[[Special:Contributions/142.163.194.161|142.163.194.161]] ([[User talk:142.163.194.161|talk]]) 22:18, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
+== References for setosus ==
-== Proposed merge with [[Corsico-Sardinian wild pig]] ==
+@[[User:BhagyaMani|BhagyaMani]] The Boddaert citation isn't adequate to explain synonymy. This is the original description, but for it to be considered synonymous with scrofa there needs to a taxonomic review. Thus the additional source given. I am not sure why that citation was described as incomplete. [[User:Jameel the Saluki|Jameel the Saluki]] ([[User talk:Jameel the Saluki|talk]]) 08:33, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
+:A source without an author, year, publisher or journal is incomplete. The proper ref for synonyms is anyway MSW 3, unless a later revised taxonomy was published. – [[User:BhagyaMani|BhagyaMani]] ([[User talk:BhagyaMani|talk]]) 13:41, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
+::I am not sure how that response addresses the issue. It appears that you are stating that ''setosus'' is not a vaid synonym. If that is the case it needs to be removed. I was happy to keep it, but it needed at least some valid reference to support it. Could you please supply a response to state why you think that ''setosus'' should remain, but without any valid citation. Also please explain the removal of the citation provided, instead of completing it if you think that it doesn't meet particular standards. Also there are no guidelines that I am aware of that state that a citation must have the characteristics that you claim. This is the recommended citation from the site in question "Sus setosus in GBIF Secretariat (2022). GBIF Backbone Taxonomy. Checklist dataset https://doi.org/10.15468/39omei accessed via GBIF.org on 2022-12-23.". It states its source is TAXREF "Gargominy O (2022). TAXREF. Version 4.9. UMS PatriNat (OFB-CNRS-MNHN), Paris. Checklist dataset https://doi.org/10.15468/vqueam accessed via GBIF.org on 2022-12-23.".
+::I would be helpful if you could explain yourself further. [[User:Jameel the Saluki|Jameel the Saluki]] ([[User talk:Jameel the Saluki|talk]]) 08:53, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
+::According to MSW 3, ''setosus'' is a syn of the nominate subspecies, hence not of the species, see <ref>{{MSW3 Artiodactyla |id=14200055 |heading=Subspecies ''Sus scrofa scrofa''}}</ref> Therefore I moved this entry. – [[User:BhagyaMani|BhagyaMani]] ([[User talk:BhagyaMani|talk]]) 16:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
+{{reftalk}}
+== Terminology ==
-Not enough referenced material to justify a separate page, sub-species better listed here. [[User:Justlettersandnumbers|Justlettersandnumbers]] ([[User talk:Justlettersandnumbers|talk]]) 19:12, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
-*'''Support''' I [[Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Corsico-Sardinian_wild_pig|didn't want it to be deleted]], but I certainly wouldn't object to it being merged. Subspecies are often better off that way, and this one seems to fit the pattern. --<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:Elmidae|Elmidae]]</span> <small>([[User talk:Elmidae|talk]] · [[Special:contributions/Elmidae|contribs]])</small> 19:24, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
-*{{done}}. Only reason the article was even a separate thing (with a far less common name for the animal, btw) was a wholly non-collaborative set of actions last August. Frankly, I don't think there much of a need for many of the subspecies articles. [[User:Oknazevad|oknazevad]] ([[User talk:Oknazevad|talk]]) 13:18, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
+Could someone knowledgeable on the subject take a look at this section please. The first sentence seems vague, a couple of common confusions could do with clarification; the gender issue (acceptability of 'wild boar sow') and the plural issue ('wild boar' and 'wild boars'). Many thanks [[User:Obscurasky|Obscurasky]] ([[User talk:Obscurasky|talk]]) 14:21, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
-== Wild boar name ==
-Prescript: I'm not complaining, I'm just curious. Why wild boars are named as "wild boars" if boars itself can be distinguished from pigs and why its name contains "boars" if the males of this animals are also called boars? If I've given the privilege to name this animal as "pig". Very simple as domestic pigs can be distinguished from my wild pigs. And also my males are called boars while my females are called sows so there is no confusion in the names. Why would it be so complicated? [[User:Jaspergeli|Jaspergeli]] ([[User talk:Jaspergeli|talk]]) 14:35, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
-:Huh? Yes, in domestic pigs "boat" is a term for an adult male. In their wild ancestors it's the name for the entire species regardless of sex. English is weird like that. The article is correctly titled. [[User:Oknazevad|oknazevad]] ([[User talk:Oknazevad|talk]]) 13:20, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
-::Colloquially, they're called "wild boars," but it is indeed a misnomer.  They're wild pigs, as opposed to domestic pigs, as opposed to feral pigs.  Since "wild boar" is such a common term, the article takes that name, but more accurately speaking, the species is wild pig, the ancestors of domestic pigs.  Like wild turkey vs. domesticated turkey.  They're still both turkeys.  [[Special:Contributions/71.226.227.121|71.226.227.121]] ([[User talk:71.226.227.121|talk]]) 21:48, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
+:I am not sure what the confusion is. Boar and boars are both used as the plural form. What is acceptable in English is generally up to which audience you are aiming at. If you find 'wild boar sow' cumbersome then don't use it. [[User:Jameel the Saluki|Jameel the Saluki]] ([[User talk:Jameel the Saluki|talk]]) 09:06, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
-== Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion ==
-The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
-* [[commons:File:Middle Asian boar.jpg|Middle Asian boar.jpg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2018-09-23T20:22:53.919899 | Middle Asian boar.jpg -->
-* [[commons:File:Ryukyu boar.jpg|Ryukyu boar.jpg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2018-09-23T20:22:53.919899 | Ryukyu boar.jpg -->
-* [[commons:File:Sanglier maroc.jpg|Sanglier maroc.jpg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2018-09-23T20:22:53.919899 | Sanglier maroc.jpg -->
-* [[commons:File:Trans-baikal boar.jpg|Trans-baikal boar.jpg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2018-09-23T20:22:53.919899 | Trans-baikal boar.jpg -->
-* [[commons:File:Ussuri boar.jpg|Ussuri boar.jpg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2018-09-23T20:22:53.919899 | Ussuri boar.jpg -->
-Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Mahjouba yu|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 20:23, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
+== Could be nominated for good article ==
-== Search keyword ==
-Help.  This is my first time editing.  How do you correct the search keyword?  This article appears under "Sus scofa", not "Sus scrofa".[[User:Cathymichaud13|Cathymichaud13]] ([[User talk:Cathymichaud13|talk]]) 03:46, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
+I see regular editors here have done an impressive job and if one of you is interested I think it is ready for [[Wikipedia:Good article nominations/Instructions]] [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 17:11, 24 January 2023 (UTC)
-:Hi {{u|Cathymichaud13}}. ''[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Sus_scofa&redirect=no Sus scofa]'' is a deliberate redirect from mispelling, so that if anyone tries to link it it will be flagged. Note that ''"sus scofa"'' is amazingly common[https://www.google.com/search?q=%22sus+scofa%22&nfpr=1&biw=1417&bih=1101], including in documents where ''"sus scrofa"'' is also used... <span style="font-size: 80%;color:blue"><sup>~</sup>[[User:Hydronium Hydroxide|Hydronium<sup>~</sup>Hydroxide]]<sup>~[[User talk:Hydronium Hydroxide|(Talk)]]~</sup></span> 04:06, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
-::[[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Erroneous_(but_deliberate)_redirects_showing_in_search_in_preference_to_correct_redirect?|
-Raised at WP:VPT]] once I understood the problem properly. 04:23, 14 June 2020 (UTC)