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== Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2024 ==
== Largest cities ==
{{edit semi-protected|Europe|answered=yes}}
There is error Cyprus is not included in the map but its included in the list of countries so either add Cyprus to the map or remove Cyprus from the list of countries [[Special:Contributions/71.169.176.83|71.169.176.83]] ([[User talk:71.169.176.83|talk]]) 22:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC)


:I stopped counting maps at 14, would you mind posting the filename of the one you're referring to? - <span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS">[[User:FlightTime|<span style="color:#800000">'''FlightTime'''</span>]] <small>([[User talk:FlightTime|<span style="color:#1C0978">'''open channel'''</span>]])</small></span> 22:39, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
Kyiv is the 7th largest city in Europe, but it is not on the list. add [[User:Septemberten|Septemberten]] ([[User talk:Septemberten|talk]]) 08:32, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
::They are the 2 maps on top the file names are https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary_(with_borders).svg and https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary.svg [[Special:Contributions/71.169.176.83|71.169.176.83]] ([[User talk:71.169.176.83|talk]]) 22:42, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
:I guess you mean the list in the infobox? The first point is that the term city is dealt with differently in different countries. E.g. Paris (city) is relatively small (2 million), but with it's banlieu's (suburbs) included it is massive (over 11 million). (greater) London is really weirdly defined as the city of London is very small (pop ~ 10.000) and greater London (as we know London) has a unique status under British law (population about 10 million). These oddities and differences between national definitions make [[List of European cities by population within city limits|city populations]] incomparable. Therefore we tend to use different measures that capture suburbs etc. .
:[[File:Pictogram voting comment.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Note:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> The list also contains countries such as Turkey and Kazakhstan. Both of which have some territory in Europe but are largely considered Asian. <code><nowiki>'''[[</nowiki>'''[[User:CanonNi]]'''<nowiki>]]'''</nowiki></code> ([[User talk:CanonNi|talk]]<nowiki>|</nowiki>[[Special:Contributions/CanonNi|contribs]]) 23:53, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
:The current order is now 1. Moscow 2. Paris 3. London 4. Istanbul 5. Madrid 6. Saint Petersburg 7. Milan 8. Barcelona 9. Berlin 10. Rome). The data seems to be extracted from page 23 of the source that lists Largest Built up Urban Areas (whatever that may mean). Istanbul is listed 2nd there, so how we get to the European part (with the same definition) is not clear, and Madrid is followed by Essen-Dusseldorf (not listed)) with Athens ranking higher than Rome.
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::The article explains the different conceptions of "Europe", obviously these conceptions don't align perfectly. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 04:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
:This brings me to several problems with the current listing.
::(1) What definition do we use? The urban area definition in the source ([[demographia]]) is only one; the city proper is problematic for all the reasons I mentioned above, the metropolitan area as defined by [[European_Union#Urbanisation|Eurostat]] is based on high quality data but only available for EU countries (ie not all European countries). This is not so easy, but I can live with urban area (but a better definition would be preferable).
::(2) The list does not follow the source by (a) omitting the [[Essen]]-[[Dusseldorf]] urban area. While this area consists of 2 cities (Essen and Dusseldorf as well as additional smaller ones) the omission seems to be [[WP:OR|original synthesis]], as cities like [[Saint Denis]] are included with Paris it seems arbitrary to exclude Essen-Dusseldorf (b) similarly the source lists Istanbul as 2nd, but without further sourcing that city is moved down to a lower ranking by only counting it's European part. Seems another [[WP:OR|original reinterpretation]] of the source. (c) The source lists the Athens urban area (slightly) higher than the Rome area. This may be a typo, but if we only list the top 10 it would dorp out in any case is Essen-Dusseldorf is added.
::(3) [[Demographia]], from which the source is derived, is a conservative, small US based think tank. The report does use EU JRC numbers however newer version are apparently available at[https://ghsl.jrc.ec.europa.eu/]. But not so easy to extract. So some update seems to be in order; and if feasible without doing our own synthesis, these sources may be preferable.
:While a lot of this relates to your concern, Kyiv would not feature in any larger urban area definition. But worthwhile indeed to scrutinise the listing. [[User:Arnoutf|Arnoutf]] ([[User talk:Arnoutf|talk]]) 09:45, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
::I updated the list in the infobox to fit the source. Please provide sourcing (with equal definition of urban area) before changing to avoid [[WP:OR|original research]] in this article. [[User:Arnoutf|Arnoutf]] ([[User talk:Arnoutf|talk]]) 09:53, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
::That's great, because the list includes Milan with a population of 1,366,180 people, but not Kyiv with a population of about 3 million [[User:Septemberten|Septemberten]] ([[User talk:Septemberten|talk]]) 09:55, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
:::The used source indeed lists Kiyev (their spelling) at about 3 million but it lists Milan at about 5.5 (which by the way ranks well above the capitcal of Italy, Rome sitting at 3.3 million). We can discuss the sourcing and definition, but I would not favour a change to city limits (what you seem to favour). The problem being that city limits is problematic as different countries deal with suburbs differently (see abovementioned Paris which is about 2 million (city limits) but 11 million including suburbs and Athens about 650,000 but with suburbs about 3.4 million, with the latter numbers begin more sensible given the size of the urbanisation of these cities). In any case, as long as we use this source we have to follow it. [[User:Arnoutf|Arnoutf]] ([[User talk:Arnoutf|talk]]) 10:10, 24 September 2023 (UTC)


== Confusing explanation of etymology ==
== Politics ==
The "Name" section reads confusedly, without a proper flow or connection between the various statements. The first paragraph seems to imply, without making the development of meaning clear, that "Europe" derives from "Evros", as a fact. The explanation then restarts with reference to "Europa", with no explanation of how, if at all, this is related to what was previously said. It's all a bit muddled. If there are various theories then the section needs to begin by saying this. There are various theories, which are ... etc. etc. Also, there is a typo "it self" for "itself". [[Special:Contributions/2A00:23C8:7B0C:9A01:7CE5:FD55:FD59:E88|2A00:23C8:7B0C:9A01:7CE5:FD55:FD59:E88]] ([[User talk:2A00:23C8:7B0C:9A01:7CE5:FD55:FD59:E88|talk]]) 22:45, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
[[File:Europe_1815_map_en.png|thumb|Political map of Europe following the [[Congress of Vienna]], 1815]]
The first sentence "The political map of Europe is substantially derived from the re-organisation of Europe following the Napoleonic Wars in 1815." is nonsense. Compare political map of Europe from 1815 (which moreover shows "congress Poland" that did not exist in fact), which is in this article, with recent political map of Europe. Much more important were later unifications of Italy and Germany, new countries in Balkan, new countries after first WW, new countries after breaks of Soviet Union and Yugoslavia.


== Citation to add for Early history ==
Which of these countries existed in 1816: Belgium, Bulgaria, Croatia, Finland, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Poland, Slovakia, Ukraine? None! And these were only examples, not full list. [[User:Nadsenec2|Nadsenec2]] ([[User talk:Nadsenec2|talk]]) 15:55, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
For "The first recorded usage of Eurṓpē as a geographic term is in the Homeric Hymn to Delian Apollo:"
:I agree. Most of eastern Europe was Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire, the Russian Empire, and Prussia. None of these exist today, of course. I don't see that today there's any particular continuing bond special to the countries that arose out of any one of these. [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 22:45, 17 October 2023 (UTC)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeric_Hymns has the date of publication as 522 BCE[98], "Burkert 1979, p. 61; Graziosi 2002, p. 206; Nagy 2011, pp. 286–287."
== Old inaccurate data in "Major cities and urban areas" section ==


Burkert, Walter (1979). "Kynaithos, Polycrates, and the Homeric Hymn to Apollo". In Bowersock, Glen W.; Burkert, Walter; Putnam, Michael C. J. (eds.). Arktouros: Hellenic Studies Presented to Bernard M. W. Knox on the Occasion of his 65th Birthday. Berlin: de Gruyter. pp. 53–62. ISBN 9783110077988.
The wiki states:


Graziosi, Barbara (2002). Inventing Homer: The Early Reception of Epic. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9780521809665.
> The next largest cities in order of population are [[Madrid]], [[Saint Petersburg]], [[Milan]], [[Barcelona]], [[Berlin]], and [[Rome]] each having over three million residents.


Nagy, Gregory (2011). "Reception of the Homeric Hymns". In Faulkner, Andrew (ed.). The Homeric Hymns: Interpretative Essays. Oxford: Oxford University Press. pp. 280–333. ISBN 9780199589036. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Winspiff|Winspiff]] ([[User talk:Winspiff#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Winspiff|contribs]]) 23:53, 28 May 2024 (UTC)</small>
Citing a source dated to 2016. But if you click to the suggested Wiki page for further information, it contains way more recent data and a different ranking ([[List of European cities by population within city limits]])


== Europe page ==
I would update it, but the page is restricted so I'm bringing it up here. [[User:Leonardobe|Leonardobe]] ([[User talk:Leonardobe|talk]]) 21:25, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
Wiki if you're mentioning the caucasian countries Georgia ans Azerbaijan , why not mentioned the 3 rd republic "Armenia" . [[User:Sarocard|Sarocard]] ([[User talk:Sarocard|talk]]) 02:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)


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:Armenia is mentioned at a couple of points in the article. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 04:27, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
== Inappropiate .eu reference ==

I find the .eu reference inappropriate, it seems to derive from (and feed into) a confusion between Europe and the EU, which are two very different things:

- Less than 50% of the area in Europe is controlled by the EU (this is true even if you include disputed territories in Ukraine).

- Some parts of the EU are not even in Europe! E.g. [[Ceuta]] and [[Canary Islands]]. [[User:Robert1dB|Robert1dB]] ([[User talk:Robert1dB|talk]]) 11:16, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

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:What is the .eu reference? ".eu" seems to appear only 3 times, all in the reference section. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 11:28, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

We have an article: '''[[.eu]]'''. It is the top-level domain for the European Union. Not the same thing as Europe, the continent, which is the subject of this article. I agree that it doesn't belong in this article. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 16:29, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

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:Where is it on this article and to what purpose? [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 17:12, 1 November 2023 (UTC)
::{{reply|Chipmunkdavis}} It's no longer in the article. It was in the infobox as the 'internet' parameter, which makes sense for the [[European Union]] article, but not here. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 18:05, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

== Cyprus and Armenia ==

Cyprus and Armenia are not geographically located in Europe. They are only associated with Europe, and thus should be removed from the list. Can somebody change it, because the page is currently protected. Thank you in advance. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2A02:A44E:FA4A:0:70B8:89BD:B14C:13B1|2A02:A44E:FA4A:0:70B8:89BD:B14C:13B1]] ([[User talk:2A02:A44E:FA4A:0:70B8:89BD:B14C:13B1#top|talk]]) 13:14, 7 November 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:This is why we have notes. [[User:Archives908|Archives908]] ([[User talk:Archives908|talk]]) 01:47, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
::Yes, but the issue is, they shouldn't be included on the list in the first place. [[Special:Contributions/2A02:A44E:FA4A:0:70B8:89BD:B14C:13B1|2A02:A44E:FA4A:0:70B8:89BD:B14C:13B1]] ([[User talk:2A02:A44E:FA4A:0:70B8:89BD:B14C:13B1|talk]]) 02:20, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
:::There has been a longstanding practice of treating all these continent lists expansively. Continents are ill-defined cultural concepts, and it is easier to have entries in multiple lists with clarifying notes than to pick and run with a particular definition across all pages. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 02:42, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

== Number of muslims in Europe ==

The article says 17.9% of European population is muslim, that would be around 135 million people. The source cited to support this information and also other articles on wikipedia itself (see ‘muslims in Europe’) clearly state that they are around 45 million, so around 6% [[Special:Contributions/151.18.129.5|151.18.129.5]] ([[User talk:151.18.129.5|talk]]) 09:57, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

== Mention climate change? ==

So far the article does not mention climate change once. How would people feel if I added an excerpt to [[climate change in Europe]] to this article, perhaps below the section on "climate"? I think an excerpt is better than new text because this is something that will continually change over time, and would then have to be updated in two places, not just one. Compare also with how it's done for the [[Africa]] article. Pinging [[User:Chidgk1]] and [[User:RCraig09]] for comment. [[User:EMsmile|EMsmile]] ([[User talk:EMsmile|talk]]) 11:29, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
* '''No strong opinion''' Though transclusions are often read clumsily when inserted, and tend to bloat the length of destination articles, this is article is a reasonable target for a transclusion. —<span style="font-family:Times New Roman;font-size:100%;color:dark blue;background-color:transparent;;">[[User:RCraig09|RCraig09]] ([[User talk:RCraig09|talk]])</span> 15:38, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
::No excerpts, please – it's a total pain to have to go to some completely other page to edit the content of an article. Why not just write or copy over a sentence or two of content that is directly relevant to the continent of Europe and nowhere else (if there is any?). [[User:Justlettersandnumbers|Justlettersandnumbers]] ([[User talk:Justlettersandnumbers|talk]]) 19:38, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
::: Excerpts are a brilliant tool for any content that is likely to change over time, in the near future. So rather than updating the content in several places, it just needs to be updated in the source article ([[climate change in Europe]] in this case) and is automatically updated in any other article where the content is used. We use them a lot in WikiProject Climate Change as some of the figures are continually going up or down (think [[sea level rise]], [[ocean acidification]], global surface temperatures, CO2 in the atmosphere etc.). See e.g. the way excerpts are used at [[effects of climate change]]. So I don't think they are a "total pain", quite the contrary.
::: For this case here, we can still ponder if it's better to just copy two general sentences across, perhaps those that do not contain numbers. In any case, do folks agree that it would be fair to say something about climate change in Europe in the [[Europe]] article? [[User:EMsmile|EMsmile]] ([[User talk:EMsmile|talk]]) 22:13, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
::::Europe's warming temperature and heatwaves probably merit some coverage in the Climate section. [[User:Chipmunkdavis|CMD]] ([[User talk:Chipmunkdavis|talk]]) 02:38, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
:::Because later someone will likely update one of the articles but not the other which will get out of date [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 14:10, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

== Russia is not in Europe. ==

This article mentions that Russia is a part of Europe but last I checked , it was a part of Asia.If Russia used to be in Europe , then I would have excused this mistake but it was NEVER part of Europe.Any thoughts? [[Special:Contributions/180.151.17.56|180.151.17.56]] ([[User talk:180.151.17.56|talk]]) 12:41, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

:Russia is a [[transcontinental country]] and the part of Russia situated in Europe is literally called [[European Russia]]. Depending on the continent model you're using, it is wholly situated in [[Eurasia]] if the model doesn't regard Europe and Asia as separate continents. –[[User:Vipz|Vipz]] ([[User talk:Vipz|talk]]) 13:15, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
:The last you checked ''where''? Europe doesn't end at the Russian border. Moscow is in Europe. St. Petersburg is in Europe. And, if you look at [[Kaliningrad Oblast|Kaliningrad]], the piece of Russia wedged between Lithuania and Poland, where do you think it is? [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 13:18, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
:Although Russia lies both in Asia and Europe, it is generally listed as a European country, at least politically, since it's capital Moscow lies in Europe. [[User:Rasnaboy|Rasnaboy]] ([[User talk:Rasnaboy|talk]]) 13:42, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
:Before 1600 all of Russia was in Europe so clearly a fully European country then, and still the majority of the population (~70%) lives in the European part. So Russian history and population support a predominantly European classification of Russia (although the area in Asia is larger, it is thinly populated). [[User:Arnoutf|Arnoutf]] ([[User talk:Arnoutf|talk]]) 15:22, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

== The Western Seaboard of our continent. ==

Mediterranian Seaboard is not the Western Seaboard of our continent.

Пить меньше надо .. [[Special:Contributions/176.59.203.74|176.59.203.74]] ([[User talk:176.59.203.74|talk]]) 02:52, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
:Fortunately, the article doesn't say that it is. [[User:Largoplazo|Largoplazo]] ([[User talk:Largoplazo|talk]]) 04:00, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 11:57, 29 October 2024

Former good article nomineeEurope was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
February 26, 2008Peer reviewReviewed
March 5, 2008Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2024

[edit]

There is error Cyprus is not included in the map but its included in the list of countries so either add Cyprus to the map or remove Cyprus from the list of countries 71.169.176.83 (talk) 22:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I stopped counting maps at 14, would you mind posting the filename of the one you're referring to? - FlightTime (open channel) 22:39, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They are the 2 maps on top the file names are https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary_(with_borders).svg and https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_orthographic_Caucasus_Urals_boundary.svg 71.169.176.83 (talk) 22:42, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Note: The list also contains countries such as Turkey and Kazakhstan. Both of which have some territory in Europe but are largely considered Asian. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk|contribs) 23:53, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article explains the different conceptions of "Europe", obviously these conceptions don't align perfectly. CMD (talk) 04:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Confusing explanation of etymology

[edit]

The "Name" section reads confusedly, without a proper flow or connection between the various statements. The first paragraph seems to imply, without making the development of meaning clear, that "Europe" derives from "Evros", as a fact. The explanation then restarts with reference to "Europa", with no explanation of how, if at all, this is related to what was previously said. It's all a bit muddled. If there are various theories then the section needs to begin by saying this. There are various theories, which are ... etc. etc. Also, there is a typo "it self" for "itself". 2A00:23C8:7B0C:9A01:7CE5:FD55:FD59:E88 (talk) 22:45, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Citation to add for Early history

[edit]

For "The first recorded usage of Eurṓpē as a geographic term is in the Homeric Hymn to Delian Apollo:"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeric_Hymns has the date of publication as 522 BCE[98], "Burkert 1979, p. 61; Graziosi 2002, p. 206; Nagy 2011, pp. 286–287."

Burkert, Walter (1979). "Kynaithos, Polycrates, and the Homeric Hymn to Apollo". In Bowersock, Glen W.; Burkert, Walter; Putnam, Michael C. J. (eds.). Arktouros: Hellenic Studies Presented to Bernard M. W. Knox on the Occasion of his 65th Birthday. Berlin: de Gruyter. pp. 53–62. ISBN 9783110077988.

Graziosi, Barbara (2002). Inventing Homer: The Early Reception of Epic. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9780521809665.

Nagy, Gregory (2011). "Reception of the Homeric Hymns". In Faulkner, Andrew (ed.). The Homeric Hymns: Interpretative Essays. Oxford: Oxford University Press. pp. 280–333. ISBN 9780199589036. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Winspiff (talk • contribs) 23:53, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Europe page

[edit]

Wiki if you're mentioning the caucasian countries Georgia ans Azerbaijan , why not mentioned the 3 rd republic "Armenia" . Sarocard (talk) 02:50, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Armenia is mentioned at a couple of points in the article. CMD (talk) 04:27, 4 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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