Jump to content

Tilman Zülch: Difference between revisions

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous edit
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
And another, from Die Welt
Monkbot (talk | contribs)
Bots
3,695,952 edits
m Task 20: replace {lang-??} templates with {langx|??} ‹See Tfd› (Replaced 1);
 
(40 intermediate revisions by 22 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Short description|German human rights activist (1939–2023)}}
{{Use dmy dates|date=March 2023}}
{{Infobox person
{{Infobox person
|name = Tilman Zülch
|name = Tilman Zülch
|image = Tilman Zülch.jpg
|image = Tilman Zülch.jpg
|image_size =
|caption = Zülch in 2010
|caption =
|birth_name =
|birth_name =
|birth_date = {{Birth date|1939|09|02}}
|birth_date = {{Birth date|1939|09|02|df=y}}
|birth_place = [[Libina]], [[Sudetenland]] (present-day [[Czech Republic]])
|birth_place = [[Libina|Liebau]], [[Reichsgau Sudetenland]], [[Nazi Germany|Germany]] (present-day [[Czech Republic]])
|death_date = {{Death date and age|2023|03|17|1939|09|02|df=y}}
|residence =
|death_place = [[Göttingen]], [[Lower Saxony]], Germany
|nationality = [[Germany|German]]
|nationality = German
|known_for = [[Human rights]] activist
|known_for = Human rights activist
|education =
|education =
|alma_mater =
|alma_mater =
|occupation = General secretary of the [[Society for Threatened Peoples]] and Society for Threatened Peoples International
|occupation = General secretary of the [[Society for Threatened Peoples]] and Society for Threatened Peoples International
|years_active =
|years_active =
|home_town =
|boards =
|boards =
|website =
|website =
}}
}}
'''Tilman Zülch''' (born September 2, 1939) is a German human rights activist. He is the founder and general secretary of the [[Society for Threatened Peoples]] (STP).


'''Tilman Zülch''' ({{IPA|de|ˈtɪlman ˈt͜sʏlç}}; 2 September 1939{{dash}}17 March 2023) was a German human rights activist. He was the founder and general secretary of the [[Society for Threatened Peoples]] (STP).<ref name="obit">{{cite web | url=https://www.goettinger-tageblatt.de/lokales/goettingen-lk/goettingen/goettinger-menschenrechtler-und-gfbv-gruender-tilman-zuelch-ist-tot-YLTLSDEZDRFZTGNFGNATSWEVHI.html | title=Göttinger Menschenrechtler und GFBV-Gründer: Tilman Zülch ist tot | date=18 March 2023 }}</ref>
== Life ==


== Biography ==
Zülch was born in Liebau, in the [[Sudetenland]], now [[Libina]], [[Czech Republic]]. His family left the Sudetenland in 1945, during the [[Expulsion of Germans after World War II|postwar expulsion of Germans]]. As a boy he belonged to the [[Bündische Jugend]], part of the [[German Youth Movement]], in [[Hamburg]]. He completed his [[Abitur]] at the [[Louisenlund]] [[Gymnasium (school)|Gymnasium]] in [[Rendsburg-Eckernförde]]. He studied politics and economics in [[Hamburg University|Hamburg]], [[University of Graz|Graz]], and [[University of Heidelberg|Heidelberg]]. He was active in college political groups and the ''[[Außerparlamentarische Opposition]]''.
Zülch was born in Liebau, in the [[Sudetenland]], now [[Libina]], Czech Republic. His family left the Sudetenland in 1945, during the [[Expulsion of Germans after World War II|postwar expulsion of Germans]]. As a boy he belonged to the [[Bündische Jugend]], part of the [[German Youth Movement]], in [[Hamburg]]. He completed his ''[[Abitur]]'' at the [[Louisenlund]] [[Gymnasium (school)|Gymnasium]] in [[Rendsburg-Eckernförde]]. He studied politics and economics in [[Hamburg University|Hamburg]], [[University of Graz|Graz]], and [[University of Heidelberg|Heidelberg]]. He was active in college political groups and the ''[[Außerparlamentarische Opposition]]''.


In June 1968, with Klaus Guerke, he founded ''Aktion: Biafra Hilfe'' to draw the attention of the world to the genocide happening in [[Biafra]], in present-day [[Nigeria]].<ref name=HNA/>
In June 1968, with Klaus Guerke, he founded ''Aktion: Biafra Hilfe'' to draw the attention of the world to the [[genocide]] happening in [[Biafra]], in present-day [[Nigeria]].<ref name=HNA/>


The [[Society for Threatened Peoples]] ({{lang-de|Gesellschaft für bedrohte Völker}}) grew out of this organization in 1970.<ref name=Welt/> Its main office has been located in [[Göttingen]] since 1979. {{As of|2006}}, its German branch, GfbV-Deutschland, is one of the largest human rights organizations in Germany.
The [[Society for Threatened Peoples]] ({{langx|de|link=no|Gesellschaft für bedrohte Völker}}) grew out of this organization in 1970.<ref name=Welt/> Its main office has been located in [[Göttingen]] since 1979. {{As of|2006}}, its German branch, GfbV-Deutschland, is one of the largest human rights organizations in Germany.


Tilman Zülch feels that it is an obligation to campaign for religiously and ethnically persecuted people, especially for Germany and Austria given the crimes of [[Nazi Germany]]. He feels that the way for Germans to deal with the past is not to stay silent in face of other crimes such as those of the Stalin era, the mass expulsions of Germans after 1945, or the genocides of today. For example, in the early 1990s he was fined for breaking into a [[Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm]] warehouse in Munich to secure evidence of the company's covertly supplying the [[Iraq]]i air force;<ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-13491783.html |title=Tilman Zülch |newspaper=[[Der Spiegel]] |date=1991-10-14 |language=German }}</ref> he repeatedly protested Russia's military actions in [[Chechnya]], comparing the bombing of [[Grozny]] to [[Bombing of Dresden in World War II|Dresden in 1945]];<ref>{{cite news |last=Kohlmaier |first=Rita |url=http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/interview-kann-deutschland-moskau-zum-frieden-zwingen-a-57285.html |title= Interview: Kann Deutschland Moskau zum Frieden zwingen? |newspaper=Der Spiegel |date=1999-12-20 |language=German }}</ref><ref>{{cite news |last=Bölsche |first=Jochen |url=http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/spiegelspecial/d-26766635.html |title=Luftkrieg über Europa: So muss die Hölle aussehen |newspaper=Der Spiegel |date=2003-04-01 |language=German }}</ref> he protested the [[2008 Summer Olympics]] in China on behalf of [[Tibet]], comparing it to the [[1936 Summer Olympics|1936 Olympics in Berlin]] under the Nazis;<ref>{{cite news |agency=[[Deutsche Presse-Agentur]] |url=http://www.welt.de/regionales/berlin/article2284475/Tibet-Initiative-beginnt-Olympia-Protest.html |title=Tibet-Initiative beginnt Olympia-Protest |newspaper=Die Welt |date=2008-08-07 |language=German }}</ref> and he has been credited as one of those most responsible for the [[Sinti]] and [[Romani people|Roma]] being recognized as a minority people in Germany.<ref name=Welt>{{cite news |url=http://www.welt.de/print/die_welt/politik/article126290764/Politik-Kompaktt.html |title=Politik Kompaktt: Tilman Zülch für sein Engagement geehrt |newspaper=[[Die Welt]] |date=2014-03-28 |language=German }}</ref> He is also the editor of the journal ''bedrohte völker'' (previously ''pogrom'').
Zülch felt that it is an obligation to campaign for religiously and ethnically persecuted people, especially for Germany and Austria given the crimes of [[Nazi Germany]]. He felt that the way for Germans to deal with the past is not to stay silent in face of other crimes such as those of the [[Stalin]] era, the mass expulsions of Germans after 1945, or the genocides of today. For example, in the early 1990s he was fined for breaking into a [[Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm]] warehouse in [[Munich]] to secure evidence of the company's covertly supplying the Iraqi air force;<ref>{{cite news |url=http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-13491783.html |title=Tilman Zülch |newspaper=[[Der Spiegel]] |date=14 October 1991 |language=German }}</ref> he repeatedly protested Russia's military actions in [[Chechnya]], comparing the bombing of [[Grozny]] to [[Bombing of Dresden in World War II|Dresden in 1945]];<ref>{{cite news |last=Kohlmaier |first=Rita |url=http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/interview-kann-deutschland-moskau-zum-frieden-zwingen-a-57285.html |title= Interview: Kann Deutschland Moskau zum Frieden zwingen? |newspaper=Der Spiegel |date=20 December 1999 |language=German }}</ref><ref>{{cite news |last=Bölsche |first=Jochen |url=http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/spiegelspecial/d-26766635.html |title=Luftkrieg über Europa: So muss die Hölle aussehen |newspaper=Der Spiegel |date=1 April 2003 |language=German }}</ref> in 2005 in advance of the official visit of German Chancellor [[Gerhard Schröder]] to [[Kaliningrad]] (formerly Königsberg, [[East Prussia]]) to celebrate the city's 750th anniversary, he demanded in an open letter that Schröder note the mass expulsions and deaths of Germans there and elsewhere in the former eastern territories of Germany under Stalin;<ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.gfbv.de/pressemit.php?id=238&stayInsideTree=1 |title=750 Jahre 'Kaliningrad'/Königsberg |publisher=Gesellschaft für bedrohte Völker |language=German |date=1 July 2005 }}</ref> he protested the [[2008 Summer Olympics]] in China on behalf of [[Tibet]], comparing it to the [[1936 Summer Olympics|1936 Olympics in Berlin]] under the Nazis;<ref>{{cite news |agency=[[Deutsche Presse-Agentur]] |url=https://www.welt.de/regionales/berlin/article2284475/Tibet-Initiative-beginnt-Olympia-Protest.html |title=Tibet-Initiative beginnt Olympia-Protest |newspaper=Die Welt |date=7 August 2008 |language=German }}</ref> and he has been credited as one of those most responsible for the [[Sinti]] and [[Romani people|Roma]] being recognized as a minority people in Germany.<ref name=Welt>{{cite news |url=https://www.welt.de/print/die_welt/politik/article126290764/Politik-Kompaktt.html |title=Politik Kompaktt: Tilman Zülch für sein Engagement geehrt |newspaper=[[Die Welt]] |date=28 March 2014 |language=German }}</ref> He was also the editor of the journal ''bedrohte völker'' (previously ''pogrom'').


Zülch died on 17 March 2023, at the age of 83.<ref name="obit"/>
Zülch was accused of misappropriation of funds by two former STP board members; in October 2013 he was completely exonerated.<ref>{{cite news |last=Heinzel |first=Matthias |url=http://www.goettinger-tageblatt.de/Nachrichten/Goettingen/Uebersicht/Staatsanwaltschaft-Goettingen-stellt-Ermittlungen-gegen-GfbV-Gruender-ein |title=Zülch komplett entlastet: Staatsanwaltschaft Göttingen stellt Ermittlungen gegen GfbV-Gründer ein |newspaper=[[Göttinger Tageblatt]] |date=2013-10-23 |language=German }}</ref>


== Awards and honors ==
== Awards and honors ==

* GeoEnvironment Prize 1982
* GeoEnvironment Prize 1982
* Lower Saxony Prize for Journalism 1996
* [[Lower Saxony State Prize|Niedersachsenpreis]] for Journalism 1996
* Silver Order of the Arms of the Presidency of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina 1996
* Silver Order of the Arms of the Presidency of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina 1996
* Annual Award of the Federation of Expulsees 2001
* Annual Award of the Federation of Expulsees 2001
Line 44: Line 44:
* Srebrenica Award against Genocide of the three women's and mothers' associations 2006
* Srebrenica Award against Genocide of the three women's and mothers' associations 2006
* Sarajevo Anti-War Centre's Freedom Prize for Human Rights 2006
* Sarajevo Anti-War Centre's Freedom Prize for Human Rights 2006
* Human Rights Prize of the Sinti and Roma 2014<ref name=Welt/><ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.dosta.org/en/content/tilman-z%C3%BClch-receives-european-civil-rights-prize-sinti-and-roma |title=Tilman Zülch receives the European Civil Rights Prize of the Sinti and Roma |publisher=Dosta!, [[Council of Europe]] |accessdate=2014-04-20 }}</ref>
* Human Rights Prize of the Sinti and Roma 2014<ref name=Welt/><ref>{{cite web |url=http://www.dosta.org/en/content/tilman-z%C3%BClch-receives-european-civil-rights-prize-sinti-and-roma |title=Tilman Zülch receives the European Civil Rights Prize of the Sinti and Roma |publisher=Dosta!, [[Council of Europe]] |accessdate=20 April 2014 }}</ref>
* Honorary citizenship, City of Sarajevo<ref name=HNA>{{cite news |url=http://www.hna.de/lokales/goettingen/zwei-hohe-ehrungen-tilman-zuelch-3437727.html |agency=Evangelische Pressedienst |title=Zwei hohe Ehrungen für Tilman Zülch |newspaper=[[Hessische/Niedersächsische Allgemeine]] |date=2014-03-26 |language=German }}</ref>
* Honorary citizenship, City of Sarajevo<ref name=HNA>{{cite news |url=http://www.hna.de/lokales/goettingen/zwei-hohe-ehrungen-tilman-zuelch-3437727.html |agency=Evangelische Pressedienst |title=Zwei hohe Ehrungen für Tilman Zülch |newspaper=[[Hessische/Niedersächsische Allgemeine]] |date=26 March 2014 |language=German }}</ref>
* Honorary Member of the Saxony-Anhalt Federation of the Victims of Stalinist Persecution
* Honorary Member of the Saxony-Anhalt Federation of the Victims of Stalinist Persecution
* Honorary Member of the Union of Women camp Detainees of Bosnia Herzegovina
* Honorary Member of the Union of Women camp Detainees of Bosnia Herzegovina
Line 58: Line 58:
* Zülch, Tilman. 1979a. ''Von denen keiner spricht. Verfolgte Minderheiten''. Reinbek: Rowohlt.
* Zülch, Tilman. 1979a. ''Von denen keiner spricht. Verfolgte Minderheiten''. Reinbek: Rowohlt.
:The People That No-one Talks About: Persecuted Minorities
:The People That No-one Talks About: Persecuted Minorities
* Zülch, Tilman. 1979b. ''In Auschwitz vergast, bis heute verfolgt - zur Situation der Sinti und Roma in Europa''. Reinbek: Rowohlt.
* Zülch, Tilman. 1979b. ''In Auschwitz vergast, bis heute verfolgt – zur Situation der Sinti und Roma in Europa''. Reinbek: Rowohlt.
:Gassed in Auschwitz, still persecuted today – on the situation of the Sinti and Roma in Europe
:Gassed in Auschwitz, still persecuted today – on the situation of the Sinti and Roma in Europe
* Zülch, Tilman. 1991. ''Völkermord an den Kurden''. Hamburg: Luchtehand.
* Zülch, Tilman. 1991. ''Völkermord an den Kurden''. Hamburg: Luchtehand.
:Genocide of the Kurds
:Genocide of the Kurds
* Zülch, Tilman. 1993. ''Ethnische Säuberungen" - Völkermord für Großserbien''. Hamburg: Luchterhand. Sarajevo 1996.
* Zülch, Tilman. 1993. ''Ethnische Säuberungen" – Völkermord für Großserbien''. Hamburg: [[Luchterhand Literaturverlag|Luchterhand]]. Sarajevo 1996.
:Ethnic Cleansing – Genocide in the cause of Greater Serbia
:Ethnic Cleansing – Genocide in the cause of Greater Serbia
* Vollmer, Johannes and Tilman Zülch. 1996. ''Aufstand der Opfer - Verratene Völker zwischen Hitler und Stalin''. Göttingen: pogrom Taschenbücher.
* Vollmer, Johannes and Tilman Zülch. 1996. ''Aufstand der Opfer – Verratene Völker zwischen Hitler und Stalin''. Göttingen: pogrom Taschenbücher.
:Resistance of the Victims – Betrayed peoples between Hitler and Stalin
:Resistance of the Victims – Betrayed peoples between Hitler and Stalin


Line 70: Line 70:
{{reflist}}
{{reflist}}


==External links==
⚫
{{Authority control|VIAF=64018805}}
* [http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/spiegelspecial/d-8591511.html "Wo endet das Morden? Warum schauen deutsche Intellektuelle bei Völkermord weg?"] Interview with Arno Luik. ''[[Der Spiegel]]'', 1 January 1999. {{in lang|de}}


⚫
{{Authority control}}
{{Persondata <!-- Metadata: see [[Wikipedia:Persondata]]. -->

| NAME = Zuelch, Tilman
⚫
{{DEFAULTSORT:Zulch, Tilman}}
| ALTERNATIVE NAMES =
⚫
[[Category:1939 births]]
| SHORT DESCRIPTION = German human rights activist
⚫
[[Category:2023 deaths]]
| DATE OF BIRTH = September 2, 1939
| PLACE OF BIRTH = Liebau, [[Sudetenland]], now [[Libina]], [[Czech Republic]]
| DATE OF DEATH =
| PLACE OF DEATH =
}}
⚫
{{DEFAULTSORT:Zuelch, Tilman}}
[[Category:Secretary-General]]
[[Category:Recipients of the Cross of the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany]]
[[Category:Recipients of the Cross of the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany]]
[[Category:People from Šumperk District]]
[[Category:Moravian-German people]]
[[Category:Moravian-German people]]
[[Category:German people of Moravian-German descent]]
[[Category:German people of Moravian-German descent]]
⚫
[[Category:Living people]]
⚫
[[Category:1939 births]]

Latest revision as of 07:06, 31 October 2024

Tilman Zülch
Zülch in 2010
Born(1939-09-02)2 September 1939
Liebau, Reichsgau Sudetenland, Germany (present-day Czech Republic)
Died17 March 2023(2023-03-17) (aged 83)
Göttingen, Lower Saxony, Germany
NationalityGerman
Occupation(s)General secretary of the Society for Threatened Peoples and Society for Threatened Peoples International
Known forHuman rights activist

Tilman Zülch (German pronunciation: [ˈtɪlman ˈt͜sʏlç]; 2 September 1939 – 17 March 2023) was a German human rights activist. He was the founder and general secretary of the Society for Threatened Peoples (STP).[1]

Biography

[edit]

Zülch was born in Liebau, in the Sudetenland, now Libina, Czech Republic. His family left the Sudetenland in 1945, during the postwar expulsion of Germans. As a boy he belonged to the Bündische Jugend, part of the German Youth Movement, in Hamburg. He completed his Abitur at the Louisenlund Gymnasium in Rendsburg-Eckernförde. He studied politics and economics in Hamburg, Graz, and Heidelberg. He was active in college political groups and the Außerparlamentarische Opposition.

In June 1968, with Klaus Guerke, he founded Aktion: Biafra Hilfe to draw the attention of the world to the genocide happening in Biafra, in present-day Nigeria.[2]

The Society for Threatened Peoples (German: Gesellschaft für bedrohte Völker) grew out of this organization in 1970.[3] Its main office has been located in Göttingen since 1979. As of 2006, its German branch, GfbV-Deutschland, is one of the largest human rights organizations in Germany.

Zülch felt that it is an obligation to campaign for religiously and ethnically persecuted people, especially for Germany and Austria given the crimes of Nazi Germany. He felt that the way for Germans to deal with the past is not to stay silent in face of other crimes such as those of the Stalin era, the mass expulsions of Germans after 1945, or the genocides of today. For example, in the early 1990s he was fined for breaking into a Messerschmitt-Bölkow-Blohm warehouse in Munich to secure evidence of the company's covertly supplying the Iraqi air force;[4] he repeatedly protested Russia's military actions in Chechnya, comparing the bombing of Grozny to Dresden in 1945;[5][6] in 2005 in advance of the official visit of German Chancellor Gerhard Schröder to Kaliningrad (formerly Königsberg, East Prussia) to celebrate the city's 750th anniversary, he demanded in an open letter that Schröder note the mass expulsions and deaths of Germans there and elsewhere in the former eastern territories of Germany under Stalin;[7] he protested the 2008 Summer Olympics in China on behalf of Tibet, comparing it to the 1936 Olympics in Berlin under the Nazis;[8] and he has been credited as one of those most responsible for the Sinti and Roma being recognized as a minority people in Germany.[3] He was also the editor of the journal bedrohte völker (previously pogrom).

Zülch died on 17 March 2023, at the age of 83.[1]

Awards and honors

[edit]
  • GeoEnvironment Prize 1982
  • Niedersachsenpreis for Journalism 1996
  • Silver Order of the Arms of the Presidency of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina 1996
  • Annual Award of the Federation of Expulsees 2001
  • Federal Cross of Merit am Bande 2002
  • Human Rights Prize of the Sudeten Germans Welfare and Culture Association 2003
  • Göttingen Peace Prize in recognition of his lifetime work 2003
  • Medal of the Iraqi-Kurdish National Assembly 2005
  • Srebrenica Award against Genocide of the three women's and mothers' associations 2006
  • Sarajevo Anti-War Centre's Freedom Prize for Human Rights 2006
  • Human Rights Prize of the Sinti and Roma 2014[3][9]
  • Honorary citizenship, City of Sarajevo[2]
  • Honorary Member of the Saxony-Anhalt Federation of the Victims of Stalinist Persecution
  • Honorary Member of the Union of Women camp Detainees of Bosnia Herzegovina
  • Member of the Jury for the Weimar Human Rights Prize
  • Member of the Jury of the "Centre Against Expulsions" Supporters Association

Publications

[edit]

(All available only in German)

  • Guerke, Klaus and Tilman Zülch. 1968. Biafra, Todesurteil für ein Volk? Berlin: Luttner-Verlang.
Biafra, Death sentence for a People
  • Zülch, Tilman. 1979a. Von denen keiner spricht. Verfolgte Minderheiten. Reinbek: Rowohlt.
The People That No-one Talks About: Persecuted Minorities
  • Zülch, Tilman. 1979b. In Auschwitz vergast, bis heute verfolgt – zur Situation der Sinti und Roma in Europa. Reinbek: Rowohlt.
Gassed in Auschwitz, still persecuted today – on the situation of the Sinti and Roma in Europe
  • Zülch, Tilman. 1991. Völkermord an den Kurden. Hamburg: Luchtehand.
Genocide of the Kurds
  • Zülch, Tilman. 1993. Ethnische Säuberungen" – Völkermord für Großserbien. Hamburg: Luchterhand. Sarajevo 1996.
Ethnic Cleansing – Genocide in the cause of Greater Serbia
  • Vollmer, Johannes and Tilman Zülch. 1996. Aufstand der Opfer – Verratene Völker zwischen Hitler und Stalin. Göttingen: pogrom Taschenbücher.
Resistance of the Victims – Betrayed peoples between Hitler and Stalin

References

[edit]
  1. ^ a b "Göttinger Menschenrechtler und GFBV-Gründer: Tilman Zülch ist tot". 18 March 2023.
  2. ^ a b "Zwei hohe Ehrungen für Tilman Zülch". Hessische/Niedersächsische Allgemeine (in German). Evangelische Pressedienst. 26 March 2014.
  3. ^ a b c "Politik Kompaktt: Tilman Zülch für sein Engagement geehrt". Die Welt (in German). 28 March 2014.
  4. ^ "Tilman Zülch". Der Spiegel (in German). 14 October 1991.
  5. ^ Kohlmaier, Rita (20 December 1999). "Interview: Kann Deutschland Moskau zum Frieden zwingen?". Der Spiegel (in German).
  6. ^ Bölsche, Jochen (1 April 2003). "Luftkrieg über Europa: So muss die Hölle aussehen". Der Spiegel (in German).
  7. ^ "750 Jahre 'Kaliningrad'/Königsberg" (in German). Gesellschaft für bedrohte Völker. 1 July 2005.
  8. ^ "Tibet-Initiative beginnt Olympia-Protest". Die Welt (in German). Deutsche Presse-Agentur. 7 August 2008.
  9. ^ "Tilman Zülch receives the European Civil Rights Prize of the Sinti and Roma". Dosta!, Council of Europe. Retrieved 20 April 2014.
[edit]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Tilman_Zülch&oldid=1254492745"