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-== Best known ==
-I don't feel strongly enough to put it back, and obviously others disagree with me, but <s>as the main contributor to this article</s> I do feel I need to register that I think [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Heitor_Villa-Lobos&diff=252040043&oldid=251945456 this assertion] is [[not even wrong]].  --[[User:RobertG|RobertG]] ♬ [[User talk:RobertG|talk]] 23:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
-:I take it that you are denying any difference between "classical" and "popular" music?—[[User:Jerome Kohl|Jerome Kohl]] ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl|talk]]) 23:41, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
-::Not at all :-)  I think Piazzola studied with Nadia Boulanger, and his works are in the repertoire of "classical musicians" such as the Katona twins.  --[[User:RobertG|RobertG]] &#9836; [[User talk:RobertG|talk]] 09:02, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
-:Well, Burt Bacharach studied with Milton Babbitt, but that doesn't make him well-known as a classical composer, and Jimi Hendrix's "Purple Haze" and "Little Wing" are in the repertoire of "classical musicians" such as the Kronos Quartet, Nigel Kennedy, Michael Nicolella, and the Polish Chamber Orchestra. FWIW, I just checked a web-based classical-music CD outlet and was surprised to find 360 recordings with music by Piazzolla there. Mind you, 148 of them are of his three best-known tangos. The same site lists 471 recordings of Villa-Lobos, if that is anything to go by.—[[User:Jerome Kohl|Jerome Kohl]] ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl|talk]]) 22:09, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
-::That's fascinating.  I don't think Bacharach's or Hendrix's oeuvres are like Piazzola's.  You'd probably find that most of the hundreds of available recordings of Johann Strauss II are of his ten most popular waltzes, marches and polkas.  To get back to the point - I am fairly certain that Villa-Lobos is not ''easily'' the most well-known classical composer from South America.  --[[User:RobertG|RobertG]] &#9836; [[User talk:RobertG|talk]] 09:36, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
-:All right, then, accepting that Piazzolla does not fall into this category, who would be Villa-Lobos's closest competitors? [[Silvestre Revueltas|Revueltas]]? [[Alberto Ginastera|Ginastera]]? [[Manuel María Ponce|Ponce]]? [[Antônio Carlos Gomes|Gomes]]? Although all of these are well-known, I can scarcely imagine any of them as serious rivals for fame. There is also the question of what criteria determine "well-known-ness". Would simply removing the word "easily" from the lede satisfy you? Or might it be better to quote Gerard Béhague's ''New Grove'' article, which more modestly calls him "the single most significant creative figure in 20th-century Brazilian art music"?—[[User:Jerome Kohl|Jerome Kohl]] ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl|talk]]) 22:16, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
-::Sorry, I cannot have expressed myself clearly.  I still think Piazzola is his "closest competitor" - although that phrase turns it into a beauty contest, which it surely isn't.  I agree with you about the others.  I also think the fact that we can have this discussion makes the lead's assertion about Villa-Lobos and South America into original research (unless there's a reliable source).  I like Béhague's comment very much - and I think that would be much more apposite.  I rank a composer's creative significance as much more notable than his well-known-ness, anyway.  --[[User:RobertG|RobertG]] &#9836; [[User talk:RobertG|talk]] 23:49, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
-:OK, I think we are in agreement at least that the sentence in question amounts to OR. I have changed the lede accordingly, to incorporate Béhague's assessment.—[[User:Jerome Kohl|Jerome Kohl]] ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl|talk]]) 03:37, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
-::I concur.  Thank you.  --[[User:RobertG|RobertG]] &#9836; [[User talk:RobertG|talk]] 09:05, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
-Why can't the lead (I refuse to write ''lede'') just say Villa-Lobos was a composer? Why must it rank him? By the way, Burt Bacharach did ''not'' study with Milton Babbitt; he studied with Martinu and Milhaud. You're probably thinking of Stephen Sondheim, who studied for two years with Milton Babbitt more or less as graduate work. Although Sondheim and Burt Bacharach are around the same age and Bacharach did write one musical, it seems to me pretty strange to confuse the two. Also: Ponce was ''Mexican''. Mexico is in ''North'' America, not South America. Mexico doesn't even border South America; there are eight more North American countries in between. In my opinion, Villa-Lobos is far less significant a composer than Ginastera, but since Ginastera was Argentinian, I don't see any basis of comparison, anyway. Is there a Wikipedia article that begins "such and such is the most famous ''European'' composer"? The most famous Brazilian composer ''period'', unqualified, was Jobim, but notice that the Wikipedia Jobim article doesn't begin by saying that--with or without genre qualification. No, not only does this article (the Villa-Lobos article) not ''need'' to say Villa-Lobos is the most famous ''anything''; it absolutely ''should'' not. [[User:TheScotch|TheScotch]] ([[User talk:TheScotch|talk]]) 05:52, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
-== About Wright 1992  ==
-"Villa-Lobos has become the best-known and most significant Latin American composer of all time." presented at the synopsis of the book on google books http://books.google.com.br/books?id=cFlaAAAAMAAJ&dq=Villa-Lobos+Oxford+Simon+Wright&lr=&ei=xoNFSbv0PJzAMrveod4N  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/201.26.42.26|201.26.42.26]] ([[User talk:201.26.42.26|talk]]) 22:16, 14 December 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
-== Choir Works  ==
-Could someone please add his choir compositions such as Bendita Sabedoria? It seems they are not yet in the list.  <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/24.201.70.116|24.201.70.116]] ([[User talk:24.201.70.116|talk]]) 06:34, 22 March 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
-== Work list ==
-I notice that the work list within this article has grown and grown, and yet there is still a note at the head of the section directing the reader to the complete [[List of compositions by Heitor Villa-Lobos]]. I believe it is usual in cases like this to retain only a short list of the most important or characteristic compositions, or even to list only the most important compositions not already discussed in the article text. What do other editors think?—[[User:Jerome Kohl|Jerome Kohl]] ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl|talk]]) 18:40, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
-:I agree. The [[List of compositions by Heitor Villa-Lobos]] info should not be duplicated. --''[[User:Kleinzach|<span style="color:#FF4500;letter-spacing:2px;">Klein</span>]][[User talk:Kleinzach|<span style="padding:0px 0px 1px 2px;color:white; background-color:#ACE1AF;letter-spacing:2px;">zach</span>]]'' 02:47, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
-::{{done}} I've now removed the duplicated sections, moving some details to the list. --''[[User:Kleinzach|<span style="color:#FF4500;letter-spacing:2px;">Klein</span>]][[User talk:Kleinzach|<span style="padding:0px 0px 1px 2px;color:white; background-color:#ACE1AF;letter-spacing:2px;">zach</span>]]'' 03:04, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
-== Infobox ==
-Is there a possibility to add an infobox for this article?--[[User:Mishae|Mishae]] ([[User talk:Mishae|talk]]) 05:48, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
-:There is always such a possibility, but I personally '''oppose''' such a thing, in agreement with the objections raised on [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Composers#Biographical_infoboxes]].—[[User:Jerome Kohl|Jerome Kohl]] ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl|talk]]) 07:05, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
-::How many people object?--[[User:Mishae|Mishae]] ([[User talk:Mishae|talk]]) 15:08, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
-:I suggest you read [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a democracy#DEMOCRACY|this guideline]], and [[Wikipedia:Polling is not a substitute for discussion|this one]], and also [[Wikipedia:Consensus|this one]], and then re-phrase your question.—[[User:Jerome Kohl|Jerome Kohl]] ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl|talk]]) 23:19, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
-::I miss infoboxes, and other important composers (e.g., [[Johann Sebastian Bach|Bach]] and [[Ludwig van Beethoven|Beethoven]]) have small infoboxes. In my opinion, they are better to see quick facts like birth/death dates/places, and family associations. Hence, there is no consensus about this. --[[User:Rudolf.hellmuth|Rudolf Hellmuth]] ([[User talk:Rudolf.hellmuth|talk]]) 13:34, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
-:It is true that ''some'' other important composers have infoboxes, but many do not (e.g., [[Giovanni Pierluigi da Palestrina|Palestrina]], [[Claudio Monteverdi|Monteverdi]], [[Georg Philipp Telemann|Telemann]],  [[Antonio Vivaldi|Vivaldi]], [[Joseph Haydn|Haydn]], [[Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart|Mozart]], [[Frédéric Chopin|Chopin]], [[Richard Wagner|Wagner]], [[Arnold Schoenberg|Schoenberg]]). You are correct, there is no consensus across Wikipedia on this, and no consensus for change on this article, either.—[[User:Jerome Kohl|Jerome Kohl]] ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl|talk]]) 18:59, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
-== Tagged 5 links as dead ==
-{{u|Jerome Kohl}}, Tagged 5 links as dead. Cheers! <code>&#123;&#123;u&#124;[[User:Checkingfax|Checkingfax]]&#125;&#125;&nbsp;{[[User talk:Checkingfax|Talk]]}</code> 09:37, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
-:All fixed, now. Thanks for calling my attention to these.—[[User:Jerome Kohl|Jerome Kohl]] ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl|talk]]) 18:38, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
-== External links modified ==
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-== Nepomuceno ==
-Villa-Lobos mostly self-taught but taught some by Alberto Nepomuceno? [[User:Schissel|Schissel]] | [[User_talk:Schissel|Sound the Note!]] 17:37, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
-:Please expand. I do not find [[Alberto Nepomuceno|Nepomuceno]] mentioned anywhere in this article, though his own bio article mentions Villa-Lobos as among his pupils. Is that the point?—[[User:Jerome Kohl|Jerome Kohl]] ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl|talk]]) 22:27, 24 February 2018 (UTC)
-Yes, sorry- I think I was in a hurry at the time but should have just waited. [[User:Schissel|Schissel]] | [[User_talk:Schissel|Sound the Note!]] 02:18, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
-:Well, then, all we need is a reliable source. Caution is indicated, however, given the long history of "reliable sources" on this composer that have proved less than reliable upon closer examination.—[[User:Jerome Kohl|Jerome Kohl]] ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl|talk]]) 02:49, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
-Hrm. Appleby (2014) does mention AN’s “controversial” encouragement of Villa-Lobos and helping VL get some scores published but, not the same thing. Will look. [[User:Schissel|Schissel]] | [[User_talk:Schissel|Sound the Note!]] 03:14, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
-:Gerard Béhague in ''New Grove'' fails to mention Nepomuceno at all. The other obvious places to look are the biographies by Tarasti, Peppercorn, Negwer, and Wright. <s>Volpe's 2001 dissertation discusses Nepomuceno alongside Gomes and Villa-Lobos, but I can't recall whether any teacher-student relationship is mentioned.</s>—[[User:Jerome Kohl|Jerome Kohl]] ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl|talk]]) 03:19, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
-:OK, scratch Volpe's dissertation from the list of sources to investigate. Despite her extensive discussion of Brazilianism in Nepomuceno's music, she never once mentions that Villa-Lobos studied with him.—[[User:Jerome Kohl|Jerome Kohl]] ([[User talk:Jerome Kohl|talk]]) 03:29, 25 February 2018 (UTC)