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June 28, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed

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Reason for result to be called stalemate?

The Infobox states that the battle was a stalemate and there are only two sources that hold this opinion. However other sources such as The History of al-Ṭabarī Vol. 8: The Victory of Islam: Muhammad at Medina AD 626-630/AH 5-8 Michael Fishbein State University of New York Press, 2015 seem to state that the battle was a victory for the Muslims Salman Cooper Mapping (talk) 22:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Kaalakaa Even though the 2 sources state it was a stalemate, nowhere does the article state the result to be a stalemate. If we just use rational thinking the result is the following: the siege of Medina was a failure for the Quraysh and the Muslims successfully invaded the Banu Qurayza. This is clearly a Muslim victory. Even the language of the article seems to state so Salman Cooper Mapping (talk) 14:21, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but on Wikipedia, we only accept analyses of reliable sources, not analyses by editors. Because that would be original research, which is strictly prohibited on Wikipedia. Also, you cannot override material sourced from two Cambridge University Press publications with conflicting material from a book published by obscure non-academic publishers like Pen and Sword. — Kaalakaa ^(talk) 02:10, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

However even if other sources call it a stalemate (despite it actually not being a stalemate), in articles such as the Siege of Mecca (683) it has simply been written that the besieging army withdrew. The same can be done with this article Salman Cooper Mapping (talk) 07:25, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Every reliable source except the 2 stated in the result indicate that the siege was a Muslim victory. This includes books by professors such as 1. Salman Cooper Mapping (talk) 07:40, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Battle of Khandaq part of that book was written by Leon Volfovsky and, as far as I know, he was not a professor at that time but an undergraduate. [1] — Kaalakaa ^(talk) 08:00, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also the article itself states that "During the night the Confederate armies withdrew, and by morning the ground was cleared of all enemy forces".In other articles defending side is the victor if the besieging side withdraws Salman Cooper Mapping (talk) 07:50, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The withdrawal of a force does not mean they are defeated. I have partially restored the withdrawal part in the infobox. — Kaalakaa ^(talk) 08:00, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fine by me Salman Cooper Mapping (talk) 08:11, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

talk about islam

nothing 2001:8F8:1D03:55D3:7827:4E6B:3101:2100 (talk) 11:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ikrima ibn Abi Jahl was a leading commander

~~Ikrima ibn Abi Jahl was a leading commander along with Abd Al Al Wad according to his own page. فضائل الصحابة (talk) 12:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)~~ Blocked sock. R Prazeres (talk) 18:42, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"According to his own page" because you added it yourself without citing any sources. Misleading statement aside, other Wikipedia articles don't count as sources. If the information is supported, add citations to reliable sources. R Prazeres (talk) 16:57, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~::I didn’t add anything onto the page Amr ibn Abd al-Wud, stop involving yourself in topics you have no knowledge of. فضائل الصحابة (talk) 09:53, 16 May 2024 (UTC)~~ Blocked sock. R Prazeres (talk) 18:42, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You did it literally right here, after you had already added it here. Both times unsourced. And your personal attacks are familiar. R Prazeres (talk) 16:16, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 21 September 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Please change any instances of Prophet "Muhammad" to "Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)" or similar. I believe it is a sin in Islam to not include the latter part. Thanks! Azmaine21 (talk) 16:52, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: See WP:PBUH RudolfRed (talk) 18:05, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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+== Reason for result to be called stalemate? ==
-{{WPMA|class=GA|importance=mid}}
-}}
-== "Hillcock" ==
-The top image contains a "hillcock". I hope this is just a typo, rather than vandalism. --[[User:Dweller|Dweller]] ([[User talk:Dweller|talk]]) <small>Become [[User:Dweller/Old Fashioned Wikipedian Values|old fashioned!]]</small> 21:44, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
-: Yeah, the top '''map''', since no one seems to have taken you seriously. --[[User:StephanNaro|StephanNaro]] ([[User talk:StephanNaro|talk]]) 21:07, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
-== External links modified ==
-Hello fellow Wikipedians,
-I have just modified {{plural:3|one external link|3 external links}} on [[Battle of the Trench]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=746693746 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
-*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/ch4s9.html
-*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.hraic.org/hadith/ibn_ishaq.html#banu_qurayza
-*Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/612polKF3?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.witness-pioneer.org%2Fvil%2FBooks%2FSM_tsn%2Fch4s9.html to http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/SM_tsn/ch4s9.html
-When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' or '''failed''' to let others know (documentation at {{tlx|Sourcecheck}}).
-{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}
-Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 23:39, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
-== Accuracy of map? ==
-I'm guessing they didn't have sattelite imagery back when they invented this story based on the story of the Hephthalite invasion of the Sassanian(?) Empire some centuries earlier as mentioned by Tom Holland in ''In the Shadow of the Sword''? The maps sure don't look terribly much like the territory, but any mention of that would be OR? --[[User:StephanNaro|StephanNaro]] ([[User talk:StephanNaro|talk]]) 21:13, 26 June 2017 (UTC)
-== Orphaned references in [[:Battle of the Trench]] ==
+The Infobox states that the battle was a stalemate and there are only two sources that hold this opinion. However other sources such as [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=battle+of+trench+islam&oq=battle+of+trench#d=gs_qabs&t=1700344425021&u=%23p%3D2zMZ-YrJE5cJ The History of al-Ṭabarī Vol. 8: The Victory of Islam: Muhammad at Medina AD 626-630/AH 5-8 Michael Fishbein State University of New York Press, 2015] seem to state that the battle was a victory for the Muslims [[User:Salman Cooper Mapping|Salman Cooper Mapping]] ([[User talk:Salman Cooper Mapping|talk]]) 22:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
-I check pages listed in [[:Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting]] to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for [[User:AnomieBOT/docs/OrphanReferenceFixer|orphaned references]] in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of [[:Battle of the Trench]]'s orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for ''this'' article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
+:@[[User:Kaalakaa|Kaalakaa]] Even though the 2 sources state it was a stalemate, nowhere does the article state the result to be a stalemate. If we just use rational thinking the result is the following: the siege of Medina was a failure for the Quraysh and the Muslims successfully invaded the Banu Qurayza. This is clearly a Muslim victory. Even the language of the article seems to state so [[User:Salman Cooper Mapping|Salman Cooper Mapping]] ([[User talk:Salman Cooper Mapping|talk]]) 14:21, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
-<b>Reference named "Misri; Sirah Sahabah: Zubair bin Awwam":</b><ul>
+::Sorry, but on Wikipedia, we only accept analyses of reliable sources, not analyses by editors. Because that would be [[Wikipedia:No original research|original research]], which is strictly prohibited on Wikipedia. Also, you cannot override material sourced from two [[Cambridge University Press]] publications with ''conflicting'' material from a book published by obscure non-academic publishers like [https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/write-for-us Pen and Sword].  — [[User:Kaalakaa|<span style="color: #154360;">'''Kaalakaa'''</span>]] [[User talk:Kaalakaa|<sup style="color: #003366;">(talk)</sup>]] 02:10, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
-<li>From [[Gabriel]]: {{cite book |last1=al-Misri |first1=Mahmud |title=Sahabat-Sahabat Rasulullah vol 1: Zubair bin Awwam |trans-title=Companion of the Prophet vol 1: Zubair bin Awwam  |date=2015 |publisher=Pustaka Ibnu Katsir |isbn=9789791294386 |language=id, ar |url=https://onesearch.id/Record/IOS3644.slims-9450 |access-date=6 November 2021 |page=[https://kalemtayeb.com/safahat/item/36531 Shaja'ah Zubayr ibn al-Awwam Radhiyallahu anh (bravery of Zubayr ibn al-Awwam]; by {{ill|Mahmud al-Misri|ar|محمود المصري}}; official Book review by [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS1qvPSxq34 Basalamah]; quoting various supplementary sources such as Sahih Bukhari, [[Sahih Muslim]], Siyar A'lam Nubala, [[Al-Tirmidhi]], [[Prophetic biography]] of Ibn Hisham, etc.}}</li>
+:::However even if other sources call it a stalemate (despite it actually not being a stalemate), in articles such as the Siege of Mecca (683) it has simply been written that the besieging army withdrew. The same can be done with this article [[User:Salman Cooper Mapping|Salman Cooper Mapping]] ([[User talk:Salman Cooper Mapping|talk]]) 07:25, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
-<li>From [[Zubayr ibn al-Awwam]]: {{harvtxt|al-Misri|2015|p=Zubayr ibn Awwam chapter}}</li>
+::::Every reliable source except the 2 stated in the result indicate that the siege was a Muslim victory. This includes books by professors such as [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=pRjOEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA450&dq=cambridge+university+battle+of+khandaq&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&ovdme=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjDhLnC1OOCAxUbQkEAHYQyAjoQ6AF6BAgGEAM#v=onepage&q=cambridge%20university%20battle%20of%20khandaq&f=false 1]. [[User:Salman Cooper Mapping|Salman Cooper Mapping]] ([[User talk:Salman Cooper Mapping|talk]]) 07:40, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
-</ul>
+:::::The Battle of Khandaq part of that book was written by Leon Volfovsky and, as far as I know, he was not a professor at that time but an undergraduate. [https://huji.academia.edu/LeonVolfovsky]  — [[User:Kaalakaa|<span style="color: #154360;">'''Kaalakaa'''</span>]] [[User talk:Kaalakaa|<sup style="color: #003366;">(talk)</sup>]] 08:00, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
+:::Also the article itself states that "During the night the Confederate armies withdrew, and by morning the ground was cleared of all enemy forces".In other articles defending side is the victor if the besieging side withdraws [[User:Salman Cooper Mapping|Salman Cooper Mapping]] ([[User talk:Salman Cooper Mapping|talk]]) 07:50, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
+::::The withdrawal of a force does not mean they are defeated. I have partially restored the withdrawal part in the infobox.  — [[User:Kaalakaa|<span style="color: #154360;">'''Kaalakaa'''</span>]] [[User talk:Kaalakaa|<sup style="color: #003366;">(talk)</sup>]] 08:00, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
+:::::Fine by me [[User:Salman Cooper Mapping|Salman Cooper Mapping]] ([[User talk:Salman Cooper Mapping|talk]]) 08:11, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
+== talk about islam ==
-I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. [[User:AnomieBOT|AnomieBOT]][[User talk:AnomieBOT|<span style="color:#880">⚡</span>]] 02:57, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
+nothing [[Special:Contributions/2001:8F8:1D03:55D3:7827:4E6B:3101:2100|2001:8F8:1D03:55D3:7827:4E6B:3101:2100]] ([[User talk:2001:8F8:1D03:55D3:7827:4E6B:3101:2100|talk]]) 11:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
-== Explanation for result in infobox ==
+== Ikrima ibn Abi Jahl was a leading commander ==
-{{ping|Kaalakaa}}:
+<del>Ikrima ibn Abi Jahl was a leading commander along with Abd Al Al Wad according to his own page. [[User:فضائل الصحابة|فضائل الصحابة]] ([[User talk:فضائل الصحابة|talk]]) 12:59, 15 May 2024 (UTC)</del> <small>Blocked sock. [[User:R Prazeres|R Prazeres]] ([[User talk:R Prazeres|talk]]) 18:42, 18 May 2024 (UTC)</small>
-You changed the result to [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_the_Trench&diff=prev&oldid=1171175600    Quraysh victory] using Brockopp page 9 and Lapidus page 42.
+:"According to his own page" because you added it yourself without citing any sources. Misleading statement aside, other Wikipedia articles don't count as sources. If the information is supported, add citations to [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]]. [[User:R Prazeres|R Prazeres]] ([[User talk:R Prazeres|talk]]) 16:57, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
-These sources state:
+<del>::I didn’t add anything onto the page Amr ibn Abd al-Wud, stop involving yourself in topics you have no knowledge of. [[User:فضائل الصحابة|فضائل الصحابة]] ([[User talk:فضائل الصحابة|talk]]) 09:53, 16 May 2024 (UTC)</del> <small>Blocked sock. [[User:R Prazeres|R Prazeres]] ([[User talk:R Prazeres|talk]]) 18:42, 18 May 2024 (UTC)</small>
-*"''The battles with the Meccans continued; some of these were barely survived by the Muslims (Uhud in 3/625), and '''others were a draw (Battle of the Trench in 5/627).'''''" --  The Cambridge Companion to Muhammad, Jonathan E. Brockopp, page 9.
+:::You did it literally right [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Ikrima_ibn_Amr&diff=prev&oldid=1223976752 here], after you had already added it [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_the_Trench&diff=prev&oldid=1223965354 here]. Both times unsourced. And your [[Wikipedia:No personal attacks|personal attacks]] are familiar. [[User:R Prazeres|R Prazeres]] ([[User talk:R Prazeres|talk]]) 16:16, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
-*"''..who twice attacked Muhammad and Medina - first at the Battle of Uhud (625) and then at the Battle of the Ditch (627). The former was a defeat for Muhammad and the '''latter was a stalemate.'''''" --Islamic Societies to the Nineteenth Century: A Global History, Ira M. Lapidus, page 42.
+== Semi-protected edit request on 21 September 2024 ==
-Care to explain? --[[User:Kansas Bear|Kansas Bear]] ([[User talk:Kansas Bear|talk]]) 18:30, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
+{{edit semi-protected|Battle of the Trench|answered=yes}}
-:Hi, @[[User:Kansas Bear|Kansas Bear]]. Thanks for letting me know. I mistakenly reverted to the Aura G666 version, thinking that this article was Battle of Uhud. In my [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Battle_of_the_Trench&diff=prev&oldid=1168954541 revision] that I made myself, I wrote the result as stalemate. You are correct. Thank you. [[User:Kaalakaa|Kaalakaa]] ([[User talk:Kaalakaa|talk]]) 18:44, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
+Please change any instances of Prophet "Muhammad" to "Muhammad (Peace be upon Him)" or similar. I believe it is a sin in Islam to not include the latter part. Thanks! [[User:Azmaine21|Azmaine21]] ([[User talk:Azmaine21|talk]]) 16:52, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
+: [[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> See [[WP:PBUH]] [[User:RudolfRed|RudolfRed]] ([[User talk:RudolfRed|talk]]) 18:05, 21 September 2024 (UTC)