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Reverting

Just to be clear, I am reverting any changes made to the family section that don't provide sources (sources that actually support whatever is stated in the article text). Some people (or maybe just one person?) are disputing who is Bongo's current wife and want to add names of his children. The article currently has a source (a highly reputable source, Le Monde) identifying one of the women in question as an ex-wife and the other as his current wife. I am not arguing the facts of the matter, except to say that we must rely on sources and not on the say-so of editors. Everyking (talk) 10:48, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have had an email exchange with the director of gaboneco.com - who assures me that Ali Bongo has never married an Inge-Alia Bongo. He has been married before - to Madame Annick Aubierge Laffitte. I have not found a reference to that. I am removing Inge from the article. Wizzy…☎ 16:08, 18 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

So we have three different claims: Inge is currently married to Ali (source: anonymous edit warrior), Inge was never married to Ali (source: e-mail exchange with website operator), and Inge was once married to Ali, but not anymore (source: Le Monde). Since only the last of those three is supported by a source that would be considered reliable for the purposes of referencing articles, I would go with that, but it doesn't matter much to me: I'd just like to see competing anons stop changing the facts around everyday and removing the sources. Everyking (talk) 21:24, 19 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding this edit, a blog has pictures of his first wedding ? Wizzy…☎ 07:07, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A persistent anon editor insists on removing this sentence. Given the uncertainty above, I am leaving it as is. Wizzy…☎ 13:13, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ali Bongo's first wife is American Inge Lynn Collins Bongo, from Los Angeles, California. http://abcnews.go.com/International/gabons-lady-lives-food-stamps-california/story?id=8494060&page=1 Gabon's First Lady Lives on Food Stamps in California

IMO there is nothing wrong with the ABC News source that is currently cited in the article; it seems to have taken pains to verify its information and Inge's identity as one of the wives of Ali Bongo Ondimba. We should not let anonymous editors who persistently make unexplained changes dictate the fate of Wikipedia's articles. Graham87 14:17, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Terminology

As the current President Bongo’s administration is a continuation of the rule of the previous President Bongo, would it be accurate to refer to the current government as the Bongo-Bongo government? 213.205.240.16 (talk) 13:08, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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Ali Bongo - allocution du 21 mars 2020 (cropped).jpg

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Requested move 30 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Moved to Ali Bongo, per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:COMMONNAME.(non-admin closure)Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 19:28, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ali Bongo Ondimba → Ali Bongo (politician) – More common name. GnocchiFan (talk) 18:29, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose present title is a perfect example of WP:NATURAL disambiguation. estar8806 (talk) ★ 19:09, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
~~Oppose~~ While Ali Bongo Ondimba is less commonly used, sources use it enough that it is not obscure. It works as a natural disambiguator. HenryMP02 (talk) 19:40, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Support move to Ali Bongo based on discussion below HenryMP02 (talk) 18:54, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per Estar. The Kip 20:02, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose Even if it's not the most common name, the name is used enough that it not unknown. I think there's a policy for this - natural disambiguation? - something along those lines which states that the name difference is disambiguation enough. And the "Not to be confused" line at the top clears up any other confusion, as well. Maximus Pinpoint (talk) 20:58, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Proposal: Anyone feel like arguing WP:PRIMARYTOPIC? Moscow Mule (talk) 21:44, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose and WP:SNOW close: per above comments. BUT I would support a move to Ali Bongo because he seems to have been clearly the primary topic even before the coup. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 21:54, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I would also support this. Given that as the president of a sovereign state he indisputably has more long-term significance than a magician. Also pageviews [1]. This could be a WP:ONEOTHER situation. estar8806 (talk) ★ 21:59, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - That makes sense to me. HenryMP02 (talk) 22:18, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- Would we need to open an entirely new move request to move this to Ali Bongo? Would we then need to move the magician's page to somewhere else or will it simply replace the current disambiguation page? Maximus Pinpoint (talk) 23:00, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - There's no need for a separate request. If consensus here shows to move this page somewhere other than proposed that is possible and happens relatively frequently. Moving the page would simply replace the dab page. estar8806 (talk) ★ 23:04, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    - Ah, I see. For the record, I Support moving this page to just "Ali Bongo" per Wikipedia:PRIMARYTOPIC. Maximus Pinpoint (talk) 23:30, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support a move to Ali Bongo per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. — AjaxSmack 23:57, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose movement to Ali Bongo (politician) but support move to Ali Bongo (move that page to Ali Bongo (disambiguation) per AjaxSmack. A y d o h 8 ( t a l k ) 00:24, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- With only one other Ali Bongo, a disambiguation page is not needed per WP:ONEOTHER; a hatnote at the top of this article would suffice. — AjaxSmack 02:49, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Ali Bongo, common name and primary topic. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 04:07, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Ali Bongo, this is obviously the primary topic, in comparison to the magician, who is of notably less significance, historically speaking. --Bedivere (talk) 04:17, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose move to Ali Bongo (politician), Support move to Ali Bongo. A world leader is inherently more relevant and important than a magician who died in the 1970s.--MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE IS REAL EMO!_{(talk or whatever)} 06:31, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Ali Bongo the leader of Gabon is more important than a magician. Masohpotato (talk) 17:30, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Ali Bongo per estar8806's analysis of the likely primary topic; natural disambiguation is not needed in this case. Dylnuge ^{(Talk • Edits)} 18:28, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Ali Bongo: It's a curiosity of life that the stage name of a British magician became the same as an African president, but I don't think anyone could argue there's a parity in long-term importance between the two. Most sources just call the president "Ali Bongo", and a 14-year-reigning president in a prosperous yet autocratic country is more important than any magician. Unknown Temptation (talk) 18:54, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Ali Bongo, as eloquently stated by User:Unknown Temptation. Ali Bongo the magician was charming back in the day (see YouTube), but yes. Moscow Mule (talk) 19:51, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Ali Bongo per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Rockhead126 (talk) 02:20, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Prefer move to Ali Bongo per reasons above - this individual clearly has more long-term encyclopaedic notability, as others have noted. 194.33.196.6 (talk) 08:38, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose move to Ali Bongo since it isn't his actual name. Support keeping as is with a redirect from Ali Bongo pointing here, and this page having a hatnote. – anlztrk (talk) 10:43, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Prefer move to Ali Bongo, which is the name most commonly used for him. Because of recent events, he now clearly outguns Ali Bongo (magician) in public recognition, so this follows the principle of least surprise. But if this is done, either a disambiguation page Ali Bongo (disambiguation), or a hatnote to Ali Bongo (magician) is essential. — The Anome (talk) 12:21, 1 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Ali Bongo per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC Abo Yemen ✉ 16:37, 2 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Ali Bongo per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Despite no major news coverage on the magician since his 2009 death, spikes in pageviews coincide with those of Ali Bongo Ondimba during the Jan 2019 coup attempt and April 2020 announcement of COVID-19 policies, as per the pageview analysis provided by estar8806. The politician's article is sought ~10x more frequently, so the existing hatnote to the magician will suffice. BluePenguin18 🐧 ( 💬 ) 01:03, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
'Support move to Ali Bongo Given the comments made by others and to avoid confusion (to the magician) and given this is a topic that is in the news given the nature of the coup, I support the vote to move to Ali Bongo. Jurisdicta (talk) 02:01, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support move to Ali Bongo as the coverage of the 2023 coup has increased the number of viewers of Ali Bongo's page, meanwhile the magician of a similar name has not received any coverage in a while. Given the increased traffic, the shorter version of the name makes more sense. S V S S Y 02:41, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose move to ali bongo(politician) support move to ali bongo
Also i would recommend an redirect for the page as well •Cyberwolf• 01:02, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Wikipedian use of "President"

Is there a standard as to what the term "President" means? If your father is the "President" for his whole life and then you become the "President", then that seems more correctly called a "King" or some other term related to hereditary rule. Has the wikipedia established rules on the use of language and what terms should be applied here? Jeff Carr (talk) 17:53, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Gabon's case isn't as egregious as it sounds: regular elections have been held since the end of one-party rule (1990) but, damnit, those Bongos just kept on winning. Fractured opposition loses out to entrenched power and name recognition every time, particularly when only a simple plurality is needed; and yeah, maybe a bit of electoral corruption^{[citation needed]} but nothing like sham elections elsewhere. And there was a four-month interregnum between Omar's death and Ali's assumption of power, during which the VPs wielded power and during which their party went through the motions of selecting a candidate. Moscow Mule (talk) 19:08, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
As per WP:NPOV, the title of "President" widely used by reliable sources takes precedence. Kim Jong Un is referred to by his official title of Supreme Leader, rather than an editor-applied title of "king" for being the third to lead North Korea after his grandfather and father. Furthermore, monarchical terms would be inappropriate for someone who held elections (regardless of legitimacy), rather than openly claiming a lifetime office. BluePenguin18 🐧 ( 💬 ) 01:23, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 {{Talk header}}
-{{WikiProject banner shell|1=
+{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|blp=activepol|listas=Bongo, Ali|1=
-{{WikiProject Biography|activepol=yes
+{{WikiProject Biography|politician-work-group=yes|politician-priority=low}}
+{{WikiProject Africa|importance=mid|Gabon=yes|Gabon-importance=high}}
-|living=yes
+{{WikiProject 2010s |importance=Low}}
-|class=Start
+{{WikiProject Disability}}
-|politician-work-group=yes
+{{WikiProject International relations |importance=Low}}
-|politician-priority=low
-|listas=Bongo, Ali
 }}
+{{Annual readership |expanded=true}}
-{{WikiProject Africa|class=start|importance=mid|Gabon=yes|Gabon-importance=high}}
-{{WikiProject Disability|class=
-}}
-| blp=yes
-| activepol=yes
-}}
-{{annual readership |expanded=true}}
 ==Reverting==
@@ Line 27: / Line 20: @@
 ::IMO there is nothing wrong with the ABC News source that is currently cited in the article; it seems to have taken pains to verify its information and Inge's identity as one of the wives of Ali Bongo Ondimba. We should not let anonymous editors who persistently make unexplained changes dictate the fate of Wikipedia's articles. '''[[User:Graham87|Graham]]'''[[User talk:Graham87|<span style="color:green;">87</span>]] 14:17, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
+==Terminology==
+As the current President Bongo’s administration is a continuation of the rule of the previous President Bongo, would it be accurate to refer to the current government as the Bongo-Bongo government? [[Special:Contributions/213.205.240.16|213.205.240.16]] ([[User talk:213.205.240.16|talk]]) 13:08, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
 == External links modified ==
@@ Line 51: / Line 48: @@
 == Requested move 30 August 2023 ==
+<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
+:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. ''
-{{requested move/dated|Ali Bongo (politician)}}
+----
+'''[[Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions#Three possible outcomes|Moved]]''' to Ali Bongo, per [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]] and [[WP:COMMONNAME]].{{NAC}}'''''[[user:Idoghor Melody|<span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:blue; text-shadow:blue 0.9em 0.9em 0.9em;">Comr Melody Idoghor</span>]]''''' [[User talk:Idoghor Melody|<span style="color:Navy">'''''(talk)'''''</span>]] 19:28, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
+----
 [[:Ali Bongo Ondimba]] → {{no redirect|Ali Bongo (politician)}} – More common name. [[User:GnocchiFan|GnocchiFan]] ([[User talk:GnocchiFan|talk]]) 18:29, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
-:'''Oppose''' present title is a perfect example of [[WP:NATURAL]] disambiguation. [[User:Estar8806|estar8806]] ([[User talk:Estar8806|talk]]) [[Special:Contributions/Estar8806 |★]] 19:09, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Oppose''' present title is a perfect example of [[WP:NATURAL]] disambiguation. [[User:Estar8806|estar8806]] ([[User talk:Estar8806|talk]]) [[Special:Contributions/Estar8806 |★]] 19:09, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
-:'''Oppose''' While Ali Bongo Ondimba is less commonly used, sources use it enough that it is not obscure. It works as a natural disambiguator. [[User:HenryMP02|HenryMP02]] ([[User talk:HenryMP02|talk]]) 19:40, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+*{{strikethrough|'''Oppose'''}} While Ali Bongo Ondimba is less commonly used, sources use it enough that it is not obscure. It works as a natural disambiguator. [[User:HenryMP02|HenryMP02]] ([[User talk:HenryMP02|talk]]) 19:40, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+**'''Support move to Ali Bongo''' based on discussion below [[User:HenryMP02|HenryMP02]] ([[User talk:HenryMP02|talk]]) 18:54, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
 *'''Oppose''' per Estar. [[User:The Kip|<span style="color:#333f42;">'''The'''</span>]] [[User talk:The Kip|<span style="color:#b4975a;">'''Kip'''</span>]] 20:02, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Oppose''' Even if it's not the most common name, the name is used enough that it not unknown. I think there's a policy for this - natural disambiguation? - something along those lines which states that the name difference is disambiguation enough. And the "Not to be confused" line at the top clears up any other confusion, as well. [[User:Maximus Pinpoint|Maximus Pinpoint]] ([[User talk:Maximus Pinpoint|talk]]) 20:58, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Proposal:''' Anyone feel like arguing [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]]? [[User:Moscow Mule|Moscow Mule]] ([[User talk:Moscow Mule|talk]]) 21:44, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Oppose and [[WP:SNOW]] close:''' per above comments. BUT I would support a move to [[Ali Bongo]] because he seems to have been clearly the primary topic even before the coup. [[User:RadioactiveBoulevardier|RadioactiveBoulevardier]] ([[User talk:RadioactiveBoulevardier|talk]]) 21:54, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+**I would also support this. Given that as the president of a sovereign state he indisputably has more long-term significance than a magician. Also pageviews [https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&start=2022-08&end=2023-07&pages=Ali_Bongo_Ondimba%7CAli_Bongo_(magician)]. This could be a [[WP:ONEOTHER]] situation. [[User:Estar8806|estar8806]] ([[User talk:Estar8806|talk]]) [[Special:Contributions/Estar8806 |★]] 21:59, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+***That makes sense to me. [[User:HenryMP02|HenryMP02]] ([[User talk:HenryMP02|talk]]) 22:18, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+**Would we need to open an entirely new move request to move this to Ali Bongo? Would we then need to move the magician's page to somewhere else or will it simply replace the current disambiguation page? [[User:Maximus Pinpoint|Maximus Pinpoint]] ([[User talk:Maximus Pinpoint|talk]]) 23:00, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+***There's no need for a separate request. If consensus here shows to move this page somewhere other than proposed that is possible and happens relatively frequently. Moving the page would simply replace the dab page. [[User:Estar8806|estar8806]] ([[User talk:Estar8806|talk]]) [[Special:Contributions/Estar8806 |★]] 23:04, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+****Ah, I see. For the record, I '''Support''' moving this page to just "Ali Bongo" per [[Wikipedia:PRIMARYTOPIC]]. [[User:Maximus Pinpoint|Maximus Pinpoint]] ([[User talk:Maximus Pinpoint|talk]]) 23:30, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Support''' a move to {{-r|Ali Bongo}} per [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]].  — [[User talk:AjaxSmack|<span style="border:1px solid #93010b;background:#ef0000;padding:2px;color:#efe6e6;text-shadow:black 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em; font-family: Georgia;">&nbsp;'''AjaxSmack'''&nbsp;</span>]] 23:57, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Oppose''' movement to [[Ali Bongo (politician)]] but '''support''' move to [[Ali Bongo]] (move that page to [[Ali Bongo (disambiguation)]] per [[User:AjaxSmack|AjaxSmack]]. <span style="color:cyan">[[User:Aydoh8|A y d o h 8]]</span> <small>( [[User talk:Aydoh8|t a l k]] )</small> 00:24, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
+**{{bcc|Aydoh8|The Kip|GnocchiFan|Moscow Mule}}With only one other Ali Bongo, a disambiguation page is not needed per [[WP:ONEOTHER]]; a hatnote at the top of this article would suffice. <small> — [[User talk:AjaxSmack|<span style="border:1px solid #93010b;background:#ef0000;padding:2px;color:#efe6e6;text-shadow:black 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em; font-family: Georgia;">&nbsp;'''AjaxSmack'''&nbsp;</span>]] 02:49, 31 August 2023 (UTC)</small>
+*'''Support''' move to [[Ali Bongo]], common name and primary topic. [[User:Hameltion|Hameltion]] ([[User talk:Hameltion|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Hameltion|contribs]]) 04:07, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
+* '''Support move to Ali Bongo''', this is obviously the primary topic, in comparison to the magician, who is of notably less significance, historically speaking. --[[User:Bedivere|Bedivere]] ([[User talk:Bedivere|talk]]) 04:17, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
+* '''Oppose''' move to [[Ali Bongo (politician)]], '''Support''' move to [[Ali Bongo]]. A world leader is inherently more relevant and important than a magician who died in the 1970s.--[[User:Mychemicalromanceisrealemo|''MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE IS REAL EMO!'']]<sub>([[User talk:Mychemicalromanceisrealemo|talk or whatever]])</sub> 06:31, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Support move to Ali Bongo''' the leader of Gabon is more important than a magician. [[User:Masohpotato|Masohpotato]] ([[User talk:Masohpotato|talk]]) 17:30, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Support move to Ali Bongo''' per estar8806's analysis of the likely primary topic; natural disambiguation is not needed in this case. [[User:Dylnuge|<span style="color: #1e79a1;font-weight:700;">Dylnuge</span>]] <sup>([[User talk:Dylnuge|''Talk'']] • [[Special:Contributions/Dylnuge|''Edits'']])</sup> 18:28, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Support move to Ali Bongo''': It's a curiosity of life that the stage name of a British magician became the same as an African president, but I don't think anyone could argue there's a parity in long-term importance between the two. Most sources just call the president "Ali Bongo", and a 14-year-reigning president in a prosperous yet autocratic country is more important than any magician. [[User:Unknown Temptation|Unknown Temptation]] ([[User talk:Unknown Temptation|talk]]) 18:54, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Support move to Ali Bongo,''' as eloquently stated by [[User:Unknown Temptation]]. Ali Bongo the magician was charming back in the day (see YouTube), but yes. [[User:Moscow Mule|Moscow Mule]] ([[User talk:Moscow Mule|talk]]) 19:51, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Support move to Ali Bongo''' per [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]]. [[User:Rockhead126|Rockhead126]] ([[User talk:Rockhead126|talk]]) 02:20, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Prefer move to [[Ali Bongo]]''' per reasons above - this individual clearly has more long-term encyclopaedic notability, as others have noted. [[Special:Contributions/194.33.196.6|194.33.196.6]] ([[User talk:194.33.196.6|talk]]) 08:38, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Oppose move to Ali Bongo''' since it isn't his actual name. '''Support keeping as is''' with a redirect from [[Ali Bongo]] pointing here, and this page having a hatnote. – [[User:Anlztrk|anlztrk]] ([[User talk:Anlztrk#top|talk]]) 10:43, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Prefer move to Ali Bongo''', which is the name most commonly used for him. Because of recent events, he now clearly outguns [[Ali Bongo (magician)]] in public recognition, so this follows the principle of least surprise. But if this is done, either a disambiguation page [[Ali Bongo (disambiguation)]], or a hatnote to [[Ali Bongo (magician)]] is essential. &mdash; [[User:The Anome|The Anome]] ([[User talk:The Anome|talk]]) 12:21, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Support move to Ali Bongo''' per [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]] '''[[User:Abo Yemen|<span style="background:#9b360b;color:white;padding:2px;">Abo Yemen</span>]][[User talk:Abo Yemen|<span style="background:#9d6b06;color:white;padding:2px;">✉</span>]]''' 16:37, 2 September 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Support move to Ali Bongo''' per [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]]. Despite no major news coverage on the magician since his 2009 death, spikes in pageviews coincide with those of Ali Bongo Ondimba during the Jan 2019 coup attempt and April 2020 announcement of COVID-19 policies, as per the pageview analysis provided by estar8806. The politician's article is sought ~10x more frequently, so the existing hatnote to the magician will suffice. [[User:BluePenguin18|<span style="color:#0074FF">BluePenguin18&nbsp;🐧</span>]]&nbsp;(&nbsp;[[User talk:BluePenguin18|💬]]&nbsp;) 01:03, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
+* '''Support move to Ali Bongo'' Given the comments made by others and to avoid confusion (to the magician) and given this is a topic that is in the news given the nature of the coup, I support the vote to move to Ali Bongo. [[User:Jurisdicta|Jurisdicta]] ([[User talk:Jurisdicta|talk]]) 02:01, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Support move to Ali Bongo''' as the coverage of the 2023 coup has increased the number of viewers of Ali Bongo's page, meanwhile the magician of a similar name has not received any coverage in a while. Given the increased traffic, the shorter version of the name makes more sense. '''[[User:SVSSY|<span style="background:#000000; color:#CFC838; padding:2px;">S V S</span>]][[User Talk:SVSSY|<span style="background:#000000; color:#CFC838; padding:2px;">S Y</span>]]''' 02:41, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
+*'''Oppose''' move to ali bongo(politician) '''support''' move to ali bongo<br>Also i would recommend an redirect for the page as well [[User:cyberwolf434344|<span style="color:#000;background:#99c;font-family:Impact">•C<span style="background:#aad">y<span style="background:#bbe">b<span style="background:#ccf">erw</span>o</span>l</span>f•</span>]] 01:02, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
+<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] -->
+</div><div style="clear:both;"></div>
+== Wikipedian use of "President" ==
-:'''Oppose''' Even if it's not the most common name, the name is used enough that it not unknown. I think there's a policy for this - natural disambiguation? - something along those lines which states that the name difference is disambiguation enough. And the "Not to be confused" line at the top clears up any other confusion, as well. [[User:Maximus Pinpoint|Maximus Pinpoint]] ([[User talk:Maximus Pinpoint|talk]]) 20:58, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+Is there a standard as to what the term "President" means? If your father is the "President" for his whole life and then you become the "President", then that seems more correctly called a "King" or some other term related to hereditary rule. Has the wikipedia established rules on the use of language and what terms should be applied here? [[User:Jeff Carr|Jeff Carr]] ([[User talk:Jeff Carr|talk]]) 17:53, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
-:'''Proposal:''' Anyone feel like arguing [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]]? [[User:Moscow Mule|Moscow Mule]] ([[User talk:Moscow Mule|talk]]) 21:44, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
+*Gabon's case isn't as egregious as it sounds: regular elections have been held since the end of one-party rule (1990) but, damnit, those Bongos just kept on winning.  Fractured opposition loses out to entrenched power and name recognition every time, particularly when only a simple plurality is needed; and yeah, maybe a bit of electoral corruption{{cn|date=2023-09}} but nothing like [[Election#sham election|sham election]]s elsewhere. And there ''was'' a four-month interregnum between Omar's death and Ali's assumption of power, during which the VPs wielded power and during which their party went through the motions of selecting a candidate. [[User:Moscow Mule|Moscow Mule]] ([[User talk:Moscow Mule|talk]]) 19:08, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
-:'''Oppose and [[WP:SNOW]] close:''' per above comments.
+*As per [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|WP:NPOV]], the title of "President" widely used by reliable sources takes precedence. [[Kim Jong Un]] is referred to by his official title of [[Supreme Leader (North Korean title)|Supreme Leader]], rather than an editor-applied title of "king" for being the third to lead North Korea after his grandfather and father. Furthermore, monarchical terms would be inappropriate for someone who held elections (regardless of legitimacy), rather than openly claiming a lifetime office. [[User:BluePenguin18|<span style="color:#0074FF">BluePenguin18&nbsp;🐧</span>]]&nbsp;(&nbsp;[[User talk:BluePenguin18|💬]]&nbsp;) 01:23, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
-:BUT I would support a move to [[Ali Bongo]] because he seems to have been clearly the primary topic even before the coup. [[User:RadioactiveBoulevardier|RadioactiveBoulevardier]] ([[User talk:RadioactiveBoulevardier|talk]]) 21:54, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
-::I would also support this. Given that as the president of a sovereign state he indisputably has more long-term significance than a magician. Also pageviews [https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&start=2022-08&end=2023-07&pages=Ali_Bongo_Ondimba%7CAli_Bongo_(magician)]. This could be a [[WP:ONEOTHER]] situation. [[User:Estar8806|estar8806]] ([[User talk:Estar8806|talk]]) [[Special:Contributions/Estar8806 |★]] 21:59, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
-:::That makes sense to me. [[User:HenryMP02|HenryMP02]] ([[User talk:HenryMP02|talk]]) 22:18, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
-::Would we need to open an entirely new move request to move this to Ali Bongo? Would we then need to move the magician's page to somewhere else or will it simply replace the current disambiguation page? [[User:Maximus Pinpoint|Maximus Pinpoint]] ([[User talk:Maximus Pinpoint|talk]]) 23:00, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
-:::There's no need for a separate request. If consensus here shows to move this page somewhere other than proposed that is possible and happens relatively frequently. Moving the page would simply replace the dab page. [[User:Estar8806|estar8806]] ([[User talk:Estar8806|talk]]) [[Special:Contributions/Estar8806 |★]] 23:04, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
-::::Ah, I see. For the record, I '''Support''' moving this page to just "Ali Bongo" per [[Wikipedia:PRIMARYTOPIC]]. [[User:Maximus Pinpoint|Maximus Pinpoint]] ([[User talk:Maximus Pinpoint|talk]]) 23:30, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
-*'''Support''' a move to {{-r|Ali Bongo}} per [[WP:PRIMARYTOPIC]].  — [[User talk:AjaxSmack|<span style="border:1px solid #93010b;background:#ef0000;padding:2px;color:#efe6e6;text-shadow:black 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em; font-family: Georgia;">&nbsp;'''AjaxSmack'''&nbsp;</span>]] 23:57, 30 August 2023 (UTC)