Talk:Balcombe Street siege: Difference between revisions
add B-class checklist as part of WP:MHABCAD |
Tom.Reding (talk | contribs) m blpo=yes + blp=no/null → blp=other; cleanup |
||
(33 intermediate revisions by 20 users not shown) | |||
Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{WikiProject banner shell|blp=other|collapsed=yes|class=C|1= |
|||
{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1= |
|||
{{ |
{{WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography|terrorism=yes|terrorism-imp=Low|importance=Low}} |
||
{{ |
{{WikiProject Ireland|importance=Mid}} |
||
{{ |
{{WikiProject Law Enforcement|importance=Low}} |
||
{{ |
{{WikiProject London|importance=Low}} |
||
{{WikiProject Military history|class=C|British-task-force=yes |
|||
<!-- B-Class checklist --> |
<!-- B-Class checklist --> |
||
<!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all |
<!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all |
||
major points have appropriate inline citations. --> |
major points have appropriate inline citations. --> |
||
|B-Class-1= |
|B-Class-1=yes |
||
<!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and |
<!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and |
||
does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |
does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |
||
Line 18: | Line 19: | ||
<!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, |
<!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, |
||
such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |
such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |
||
|B-Class-5= |
|B-Class-5=yes}} |
||
{{WikiProject Northern Ireland|importance=Low}} |
|||
}} |
|||
{{WikiProject United Kingdom|importance=Low}} |
|||
{{WikiProject Irish republicanism|importance=Mid}} |
|||
}} |
}} |
||
{{Troubles restriction}} |
|||
{{On this day|date1=2015-12-06|oldid1=694056634|date2=2020-12-06|oldid2=992676086}} |
|||
{{Annual readership|scale=log}} |
|||
== Am I naive? == |
== Am I naive? == |
||
Line 29: | Line 36: | ||
::Yes it's true, and they were greeted as heroes at a Sinn Fein conference receiving a standing ovation [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/northern_ireland/latest_news/90395.stm]. (The real killers that is). [[User:Jooler|Jooler]] |
::Yes it's true, and they were greeted as heroes at a Sinn Fein conference receiving a standing ovation [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/northern_ireland/latest_news/90395.stm]. (The real killers that is). [[User:Jooler|Jooler]] |
||
:::And we don't negotiate with terrorists!! [[User:Simontrumpet|simon]] |
|||
you do, you know. You've been doin it since the 1600s |
|||
==Rv Cite== |
==Rv Cite== |
||
:One died in jail, and the rest were eventually released after it emerged that police had beaten confessions out of them and suppressed information that would have proved their innocence. |
:One died in jail, and the rest were eventually released after it emerged that police had beaten confessions out of them and suppressed information that would have proved their innocence. |
||
This may be true (I was under teh impression it was true) but it belongs on the Guildford Four and you haven't added a cite. Could you explain why you reverted its removal? |
This may be true (I was under teh impression it was true) but it belongs on the Guildford Four and you haven't added a cite. Could you explain why you reverted its removal? |
||
< |
<span style="color: #00aa00;">[[User:Rex the first|<span style="color: #00aa00;">Rex the first</span>]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Rex the first|<span style="color: #00aa00;">talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Rex_the_first|<span style="color: #00aa00;">contribs</span>]]</sup></small></span> 02:17, 30 December 2006 (UTC) |
||
:You think it irrelevant? [[User:Jooler|Jooler]] 03:39, 30 December 2006 (UTC) |
:You think it irrelevant? [[User:Jooler|Jooler]] 03:39, 30 December 2006 (UTC) |
||
Not irrelevant just that it doesn't seem to be about [[Balcombe Street Siege]] but about the [[Guildford Four]]. Also I couldn't find a part in the [[Guildford Four]] article about the confessions being beaten out of them and lastly you have not put a reference. I hope that explains why I removed it, sorry if it casued offence. < |
Not irrelevant just that it doesn't seem to be about [[Balcombe Street Siege]] but about the [[Guildford Four]]. Also I couldn't find a part in the [[Guildford Four]] article about the confessions being beaten out of them and lastly you have not put a reference. I hope that explains why I removed it, sorry if it casued offence. <span style="color: #00aa00;">[[User:Rex the first|<span style="color: #00aa00;">Rex the first</span>]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Rex the first|<span style="color: #00aa00;">talk</span>]] | [[Special:Contributions/Rex_the_first|<span style="color: #00aa00;">contribs</span>]]</sup></small></span> 03:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC) |
||
The continued inclusion of a reference to the Guildford Four impacts the impartiality of the article. It can be easily seen as a transparent attempt to humanize convicted criminals, particularly as it clearly does not add to this article main thread. Further question: why are the edits so very careful to tiptoe around never referring to this group as a terrorist cell? (which, by definition, they were) is there some unwritten rule on this matter wrt NI? |
The continued inclusion of a reference to the Guildford Four impacts the impartiality of the article. It can be easily seen as a transparent attempt to humanize convicted criminals, particularly as it clearly does not add to this article main thread. Further question: why are the edits so very careful to tiptoe around never referring to this group as a terrorist cell? (which, by definition, they were) is there some unwritten rule on this matter wrt NI? |
||
:[[WP:WTA]] and [[WP:NPOV]]. < |
:[[WP:WTA]] and [[WP:NPOV]]. <span style="font-family: Verdana;">[[User:One Night In Hackney|<span style="color:#009">One Night In Hackney</span>]]<sub>''[[User talk:One Night In Hackney|303]]''</sub></span> 07:20, 19 May 2007 (UTC) |
||
== WikiProject class rating== |
== WikiProject class rating== |
||
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. [[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] 16:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC) |
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. [[User:BetacommandBot|BetacommandBot]] 16:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC) |
||
==SAS== |
==SAS== |
||
Line 57: | Line 60: | ||
This sentence was in an earlier version of the article and is supported by the BBC refs. However it's now changed to an uncited and different:<br> |
This sentence was in an earlier version of the article and is supported by the BBC refs. However it's now changed to an uncited and different:<br> |
||
"The men surrendered after several days of negotiations with the Metropolitan Police during which time SAS teams had been deployed" |
"The men surrendered after several days of negotiations with the Metropolitan Police during which time SAS teams had been deployed" |
||
⚫ | |||
==Crouch Hill== |
|||
My recollection is that the police discovered the terrorists' base at Crouch Hill, north London and raided it. This was reported in the Sunday Times and other papers. Should this be added? I'll try to find a reference. [[User:Folks at 137|Folks at 137]] ([[User talk:Folks at 137|talk]]) 17:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
:There was no "base" as such, however there was a number of safe-houses and bases. Plenty of the books on the time cover it better than the papers.[[User:GiollaUidir|GiollaUidir]] ([[User talk:GiollaUidir|talk]]) 19:34, 7 October 2008 (UTC) |
|||
⚫ | |||
== The use of the word "volunteers" == |
|||
The IRA members who were the protagonists in the Balcombe Street Siege are twice referred to as "volunteers". How does their description with a Republican term conform with a neutral point of view? [[User:Richardhearnden|Chuggsymalone]] ([[User talk:Richardhearnden|talk]]) 08:27, 29 May 2010 (UTC) |
|||
:Volunteer is an accurate, neutral term used by neutral reliable sources. [[User:O Fenian|O Fenian]] ([[User talk:O Fenian|talk]]) 08:30, 29 May 2010 (UTC) |
|||
What neutral and reliable sources? I have heard the terms used frequently by known Republicans and Sinn Fein politicians, but they are not neutral. If the use of the term is more widespread, I'd be glad to hear of it. [[User:Chuggsymalone|Chuggsymalone]] ([[User talk:Chuggsymalone|talk]]) 12:03, 31 May 2010 (UTC) |
|||
:Taylor, Moloney, English, Bowyer Bell to name but four. [[User:O Fenian|O Fenian]] ([[User talk:O Fenian|talk]]) 08:39, 25 June 2010 (UTC) |
|||
== Martin O'Connell == |
|||
Added link to new article on yer man. [[User:You Can Act Like A Man|Basket Feudalist]] ([[User talk:You Can Act Like A Man|talk]]) 12:25, 30 December 2012 (UTC) |
|||
==An odd usage== |
|||
This phrase looks wrong to me: ''until it was determined that their convictions were unsafe''. Can "unsafe" be the right word in an English court? It would not be proper usage on the other side of the [[Atlantic Ocean]]. <span style="text-shadow:#396 0.2em 0.2em 0.5em; class=texhtml">[[User:7&6=thirteen|<b style="color:#060">7&6=thirteen</b>]] ([[User talk:7&6=thirteen|<b style="color:#000">☎</b>]])</span> 16:33, 17 January 2013 (UTC) |
|||
:It's commonly used in the UK. [[User:Jim Michael|Jim Michael]] ([[User talk:Jim Michael|talk]]) 19:02, 6 December 2020 (UTC) |
|||
== External links modified == |
|||
Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
|||
I have just modified 2 external links on [[Balcombe Street siege]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=790495461 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
|||
*Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/v3/about/history/video/irabalcombe1975/index.html |
|||
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121027034828/http://www.searcs-web.com/oconn9.html to http://www.searcs-web.com/oconn9.html |
|||
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. |
|||
{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}} |
|||
Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 03:06, 14 July 2017 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 22:27, 9 November 2024
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Troubles, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on December 6, 2015 and December 6, 2020. |
Am I naive?
[edit]Is it really true that:
- the guys who actually killed so many people leading up to the seige are now free?
- the guys who were wrongly convicted of some of those deaths remained in prison for another 12 years?
- simon
Rv Cite
[edit]- One died in jail, and the rest were eventually released after it emerged that police had beaten confessions out of them and suppressed information that would have proved their innocence.
This may be true (I was under teh impression it was true) but it belongs on the Guildford Four and you haven't added a cite. Could you explain why you reverted its removal? Rex the first talk | contribs 02:17, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
- You think it irrelevant? Jooler 03:39, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Not irrelevant just that it doesn't seem to be about Balcombe Street Siege but about the Guildford Four. Also I couldn't find a part in the Guildford Four article about the confessions being beaten out of them and lastly you have not put a reference. I hope that explains why I removed it, sorry if it casued offence. Rex the first talk | contribs 03:03, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
The continued inclusion of a reference to the Guildford Four impacts the impartiality of the article. It can be easily seen as a transparent attempt to humanize convicted criminals, particularly as it clearly does not add to this article main thread. Further question: why are the edits so very careful to tiptoe around never referring to this group as a terrorist cell? (which, by definition, they were) is there some unwritten rule on this matter wrt NI?
WikiProject class rating
[edit]This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
SAS
[edit]This is the sort of thing that's worrying:
"The men surrendered once the 22 SAS deployment was publicised."
This sentence was in an earlier version of the article and is supported by the BBC refs. However it's now changed to an uncited and different:
"The men surrendered after several days of negotiations with the Metropolitan Police during which time SAS teams had been deployed"
Rich Farmbrough, 00:32 8 December 2007 (GMT).
Crouch Hill
[edit]My recollection is that the police discovered the terrorists' base at Crouch Hill, north London and raided it. This was reported in the Sunday Times and other papers. Should this be added? I'll try to find a reference. Folks at 137 (talk) 17:27, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
- There was no "base" as such, however there was a number of safe-houses and bases. Plenty of the books on the time cover it better than the papers.GiollaUidir (talk) 19:34, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
The use of the word "volunteers"
[edit]The IRA members who were the protagonists in the Balcombe Street Siege are twice referred to as "volunteers". How does their description with a Republican term conform with a neutral point of view? Chuggsymalone (talk) 08:27, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
- Volunteer is an accurate, neutral term used by neutral reliable sources. O Fenian (talk) 08:30, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
What neutral and reliable sources? I have heard the terms used frequently by known Republicans and Sinn Fein politicians, but they are not neutral. If the use of the term is more widespread, I'd be glad to hear of it. Chuggsymalone (talk) 12:03, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
- Taylor, Moloney, English, Bowyer Bell to name but four. O Fenian (talk) 08:39, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
Martin O'Connell
[edit]Added link to new article on yer man. Basket Feudalist (talk) 12:25, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
An odd usage
[edit]This phrase looks wrong to me: until it was determined that their convictions were unsafe. Can "unsafe" be the right word in an English court? It would not be proper usage on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:33, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
- It's commonly used in the UK. Jim Michael (talk) 19:02, 6 December 2020 (UTC)
External links modified
[edit]Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Balcombe Street siege. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
- Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.devon-cornwall.police.uk/v3/about/history/video/irabalcombe1975/index.html
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121027034828/http://www.searcs-web.com/oconn9.html to http://www.searcs-web.com/oconn9.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
- If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
- If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 03:06, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
- C-Class Crime-related articles
- Low-importance Crime-related articles
- C-Class Terrorism articles
- Low-importance Terrorism articles
- Terrorism task force articles
- WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography articles
- C-Class Ireland articles
- Mid-importance Ireland articles
- C-Class Ireland articles of Mid-importance
- All WikiProject Ireland pages
- C-Class Law enforcement articles
- Low-importance Law enforcement articles
- WikiProject Law Enforcement articles
- C-Class London-related articles
- Low-importance London-related articles
- C-Class military history articles
- C-Class British military history articles
- British military history task force articles
- C-Class European military history articles
- European military history task force articles
- C-Class Northern Ireland-related articles
- Low-importance Northern Ireland-related articles
- All WikiProject Northern Ireland pages
- C-Class United Kingdom articles
- Low-importance United Kingdom articles
- WikiProject United Kingdom articles
- C-Class Irish republicanism articles
- Mid-importance Irish republicanism articles
- WikiProject Irish republicanism articles
- Selected anniversaries (December 2015)
- Selected anniversaries (December 2020)