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== A passionate request for editing. ==
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This page needs editing. (Posted by [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=144.138.219.77 144.138.219.77])
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:So do it! [[User:Makaristos|Makaristos]] 07:45, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
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* [[commons:File:Aung San Suu Kyi 1951.jpg|Aung San Suu Kyi 1951.jpg]] ([[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Aung San Suu Kyi 1951.jpg|discussion]])<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2022-03-22T11:07:57.804562 | Aung San Suu Kyi 1951.jpg -->
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== Political career split suggestion ==
[[User:68.198.135.212|68.198.135.212]] 20:31, 27 February 2006 (UTC)Changed "Irishan" to the correst adjective "Irish"
== Daw ==
So is ''Daw'' some kind of title, like ''Dame''? --[[User:Menchi|Menchi]] 23:12, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
*In Burmese, "Daw" means "madame" or "ms.", actually it means "aunt" but is translated as a respectful way to refer to an older woman or woman of high status. --[[User:Leiwenxiu|Xiu Xiu]] 13:20, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
::Is ''Daw'' really necessary? ''Daw'' is only used by people younger than Aung San Suu Kyi to refer to her. [[User:Hintha|Hintha]] 22:23, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


Suggestion: split Political career section into new page/article.
== Aung San's death ==
Who assasinated Aung San (Suu Kyi's father)? This article says rivals as does the Aung San one but the Ne Win one says the British... --Anonymous


Reason: it's too long, especially on mobile.
== NPOV? ==
''illegally changed by the junta''
This seems to be a non sequitur.


*See [[Political career of Donald Trump]] or [[Political career of Abraham Lincoln (1849–1861)]] for references.
Can you really assert that the names of the country and capital were "illegally" changed by the junta? Don't the rulers of a country get to name it? And in any event, how is that relevant?
[[User:EdhyRa|EdhyRa]] ([[User talk:EdhyRa|talk]]) 10:45, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
-----------------------
Agreed, I edited the article to remove that part. --[[User:Lt2hieu2004|lt2hieu2004]] 23:18, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)


== Unnecessary and inaccurate explanation of the honorific "Daw" ==
==wikify?==
I added the wikify tag because I feel that this article should be divided into headings and subheadings to make it easier to read, and to organize the information into specific categories. I suppose I could do this but I don't see the harm in having a wikify tag there if it clearly could use some further organization. Please let me know why you deleted it. --[[User:Leiwenxiu|Xiu Xiu]] 14:17, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Under the section ''Name'', there is the sentence "[...] is often referred to as ''Daw'' Aung San Suu Kyi. ''Daw'', literally meaning "aunt" [...]". There was a similar discussion but
:Wasn't me that removed it, but it doesn't need the wikify tag. The wikify tag (as I understand it) is mostly for identifying articles which are greatly in need of serious work and reformatting, mostly when they have just been pasted verbatim from other sources, with no or very few wiki links present in the text.


This is inaccurate as '''"Daw" (ဒေါ် ) doesn't mean ''Aunt'' necessarily'''. At least the prefix ''အ for အဒေါ်'' or the suffix ''ကြီး*'' for ''ဒေါ်ကြီး'' is required to imply that the person in question is an aunt; with more prefixes and suffixes available to imply more meanings. One cannot call their aunt just "Daw" nor "Daw [their name]" as this would imply you're referring to her with the full honorific and name which signifies she is a stranger. [https://www.mediafire.com/download/vn2upzxumll7jrt This] is a Burmese-to-Burmese dictionary which seems to be the most accurate capturing the nuances but unfortunately lacks accessibility. I speak Burmese natively so I've transcribed the relevant portion below so you can verify in the translation software of your choice. I've also included my translations of each entry.
:This article has plenty wiki links, and is reasonably well formatted. I'm not sure if there's a tag for 'reformat this and add headings', but even if there is one, I personally don't think this article is in enough need of work to require a big notice at the top. By all means put in the effort yourself though, or possibly suggest a reorganisation on the talk page maybe? &mdash; [[User:Pmcm|pmcm]] 18:12, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


The entries in question at page 161 for No. 1,2,3 and page 364 for No. 4 of the dictionary I linked:
:...and I added some headings. If you don't like them, get rid of, or change them. I'm not sure that the article is currently long enough to really warrant the addition of any ''more'' headings, but maybe that's just me. &mdash; [[User:Pmcm|pmcm]] 18:20, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)


# ''ဒေါ်၊'' (စည်း)—ယဉ်ကျေးသောအားဖြင့် မိန်းမ၏ အမည်ရှေ့က ထည့်သုံးသော စကား။
::Xiu Xiu, it was I who removed the tag. I didn't mean to upset you; if you do feel this article needs further organisation, then you should use the '''<nowiki>{{cleanup}}</nowiki>''' tag. The '''<nowiki>{{wikify}}</nowiki>''' tag is used to denote an [[article]] [[that]] [[need|needs]] [[wiki]] [[links]] [[addition|adding]]. [[User:Proto|Proto]] 08:36, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
# ''ဒေါ်ကြီး*''—အမေ၏အစ်မ။
# ''ကြီး*တော်''—အမေ၏ညီမ။
# ''အဒေါ်''—မိခင်၏ညီမ။


English translations of each entry done by me:
== Burmese script ==


# ''Daw,'' (Social rule)—The word put in front of a woman's name as a show of politeness
Currently the Burmese is a graphic. Burmese has recently been added to Unicode and there are Burmese fonts available, as stated in the [[Yangon]] article.
# Daw Gyii—Mother's older sister
# Gyii Daw—Mother's younger sister
# A-Daw—Mother's younger sister


English translations of each entry by Google Translate as of 29 June 2024:
Should the Burmese be changed to Unicode and the "Get a Burmese font" text added?


# ''ဒေါ်၊'' (စည်း) Aunt (Hin)—a polite word used before a woman's name.
:I originally added it as Unicode, which [[User:Hintha|Hintha]] replaced with the graphic. I think the graphic is better, since we can't expect the average user to get a Burmese font. Also, the Unicode doesn't always display properly, while the graphic does. --[[User:Angr|Angr]]/[[User_talk:Angr|<sub>{{IPA|tɔk tə mi}}</sub>]] 05:55, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
# ''ဒေါ်ကြီး*'' Daw Gyii—Mother's older sister.
# ''ကြီး*တော်'' Greatest—Mother's sister.
# ''အဒေါ်'' Aunt—mother's sister.


I'd highly encourage not trusting Google Translate as much in this as it is ''very'' unreliable for Burmese text. Though in spite of the inaccurate translations, my point still stands. If there are any other native Burmese speakers reading this, please confirm my translations.
::Then would it be a good idea to create a Burmese template which has space for both the graphic and the Unicode?
--[[User:Jaysbro|Jaysbro]]/[[User_talk:Jaysbro|<sub>talk</sub>]] 2005-09-02 15:57 (UTC)


This error seem to have arose from the fact that the words are similar and seem to be of same etymological origin. I've read once that the honorific was derived for referring to someone that is someone of similar age to one's aunt though I could find no source. That line of thinking is actually inferred in [[Talk:Aung San Suu Kyi/Archive 1#Daw|this]] archived discussion.
== Our National Democracy Leader ==


Still, my recommendation is to '''simply remove the inaccuracy''' so the sentence would be: "In Myanmar, Aung San Suu Kyi is often referred to as ''Daw'' Aung San Suu Kyi. ''Daw'' is not part of her name but is an honorific for any older and revered woman, akin to "Madam"."
I always recommend Daw Aung San Su Kyi for her trying democracy.
Have a nice day!


Please let me know if you can find another source for the translations.
== In the interest of fully understanding the conflict ==


Of course my instinct is to sympathize with Aung, but I feel I don't have a truly in depth analysis here. While not trying to obscure the issues or exonerate the junta of brutality, in the interest of thoroughness I would like some analysis of the junta's position (however evil they may be), simply because they are in power. To truly oppose the junta one has to fully understand their arguments, their political position, the reasons for their popularity, and particularly the overall political, economic and historical context, such as external alliances, military aid, etc.


<nowiki>*</nowiki> Alternatively spelled ''ဂျီး'' for ''ဒေါ်ဂျီး'' which is also technically correct but considered archaic or careless spelling. [[User:LynnDieEule|LynnDieEule]] ([[User talk:LynnDieEule|talk]]) 18:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
Based on what I know, I would surely look into the possibility of a socialist/capitalist type battle for influence and resources waging behind the scenes- at least in name. I would like to see if that exists or is claimed to exist by either side. Possibly the junta is critical of what they perceive to be Aung's policies toward future outside land ownership and development, and is able to use that to maintian popularity (or something similar).

Though it is remotely possible the junta is pure evil and has no leg to stand on (it is unquestioningly brutal), unfortunately, situations are rarely so cut and dried. Consider many governments in the south-east Asia are fighting ongoing and very violent civil wars which have a strong relationship to illicit drug economies, and Burma/Myanmar is the worlds largest producer of heroin (all of it illicit yet Burma is still reliant on it, possibly similar to North Korea's position). The west, and other superpowers, have played a large role in originating and maintaining these black markets. For instance, if opium and heroin were legalized by the west at least for regional trade (as they were before 1947), then whatever the destructive nature of the drugs, there would not also be full scale civil wars (funded by illicit economies which are larger than the legitimate economies). Look at American prohibition to see what even a small illicit economy can do- but imagine it ten times bigger. Witness similar problems and dilemmas in central and south America. Should Burma/Myanmar be more like free-market Columbia, awash in drugs and civil war, or socialist, controlled-market Venezuela? My impression is that the junta has at least attempted to represent the socialist direction, and I want to know how much of each sides claims might be colored by outside propaganda.

Tracing military and covert aid is particularly enlightening. I understand Burma has received aid from Israel and Pakistan (in turn armed by the US), but also from North Korea and China. Everyone seems to be influencing Burma as a hedge against India. How weird- getting military aid from Israel, Pakistan and North Korea. How sick it is that governments let arms flow with no consideration how they are used... The history of Burma after the Chinese revolution is supremely relevant, featuring heavy US covert involvement, and probably the CIA's earliest ties to drug trafficking in south east Asia.

:There was some Japanese newspaper's board that had a poster who was pro-government and against her. What I recall his reasons were mostly nationalist. He deemed her to be a servant of foreigners who studied in Oxford and out of touch with Myanmar. Also that she's too stubborn and encouraging sanctions on Myanmar that hurts their people. This seems consistent with his government, [http://www.myanmar.com/nlm/enlm/May27_rg11.html see article]. I think they also feel that strong action is needed to keep the nation from dissolving on ethnic lines and that they are on the correct road of democracy. I think they're full of it and their reasonings seem largely like the reasons of many other vicious dictatorships, but those are their reasons as far as I know. That site I linked to can help give you a better sense of their thinking.--[[User:T. Anthony|T. Anthony]] 13:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

==Name==
As a Burmese, Aung San Suu Kyi has only one name, not a first name and surname [[http://www.asiatravelinfo.com/myanmar/doingbusiness.asp]] [[http://www.library.ca.gov/assets/acrobat/names.pdf]]. Could we please be sure in future edits to refer to her as Aung San Suu Kyi, and not Suu Kyi? [[User:IBook of the Revolution|the iBook of the Revolution]] 10:17, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

:I don't get it. Her own website [[http://www.dassk.org/index.php]] repeatedly refers to her as "Suu Kyi" (and even once or twice as "Kyi"), as does her bio on the Nobel Prize website [[http://nobelprize.org/peace/laureates/1991/kyi-bio.html]], as does the BBC [[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/08/98/burma/140955.stm]], etc. etc. Whether it's correct or not (and I appreciate what you're saying about Burmese names; one of my teachers in high school was Burmese), the rest of the world seems to refer to her this way, especially in mainstream outlets. Why not follow that, for the sake of clarity and readability? [[User:Makaristos|Makaristos]] 17:09, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

:: I agree. "Suu Kyi" is perfectly acceptable. "Suu" was her paternal grandmother's name - most Burmese would spell it "Su" as it is a creaky short sound - and "Kyi" part of her mother's.The Burmese would address her as "Su Su", "Ma Su" or "Daw Su", even "Auntie Su" in terms of age/seniority. The formal way is still the full name "Daw Aung San Suu Kyi" with the honorific. Among the Burmese it is considered rude to call someone by their name without the honorific unless you've known them from their youth or childhood or you are older and the other person is an underling. This of course does not apply to those who are strangers to Burmese custom. Naming his children "Aung San so and so" was in itself a curious eccentricity on the part of her father as it certainly isn't Burmese custom. But having said that there has been a remarkable precedent in the names of the first kings of Bagan, 9th to 10th century A.D., and it goes like this - Pyu Saw Htee was succeeded by Htee Min Yin, then Yin Min Paik, Paik Thei Lè, Thei Lè Kyaung and Kyaung Du Yit. It obviously didn't catch on. [[User:Wagaung|Wagaung]] 13:49, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

== Personal life and child hood ==

This article needs to have info about her childhood and personal life to make it more balanced --[[User:Vyzasatya|Vyzasatya]] 06:30, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

== Burma or Myanmar? ==

For information on the Aung San Suu Kyi article after 1989, is "Burma" or "Myanmar" to be used? Section 3, "Detention in Myanmar" is not uniform, using both "Burma" and "Myanmar". [[User:Hintha|Hintha]] 02:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 09:00, 11 November 2024

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion

[edit]

The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:

Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:08, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Political career split suggestion

[edit]

Suggestion: split Political career section into new page/article.

Reason: it's too long, especially on mobile.

EdhyRa (talk) 10:45, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unnecessary and inaccurate explanation of the honorific "Daw"

[edit]

Under the section Name, there is the sentence "[...] is often referred to as Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. Daw, literally meaning "aunt" [...]". There was a similar discussion but

This is inaccurate as "Daw" (ဒေါ် ) doesn't mean Aunt necessarily. At least the prefix အ for အဒေါ် or the suffix ကြီး* for ဒေါ်ကြီး is required to imply that the person in question is an aunt; with more prefixes and suffixes available to imply more meanings. One cannot call their aunt just "Daw" nor "Daw [their name]" as this would imply you're referring to her with the full honorific and name which signifies she is a stranger. This is a Burmese-to-Burmese dictionary which seems to be the most accurate capturing the nuances but unfortunately lacks accessibility. I speak Burmese natively so I've transcribed the relevant portion below so you can verify in the translation software of your choice. I've also included my translations of each entry.

The entries in question at page 161 for No. 1,2,3 and page 364 for No. 4 of the dictionary I linked:

  1. ဒေါ်၊ (စည်း)—ယဉ်ကျေးသောအားဖြင့် မိန်းမ၏ အမည်ရှေ့က ထည့်သုံးသော စကား။
  2. ဒေါ်ကြီး*—အမေ၏အစ်မ။
  3. ကြီး*တော်—အမေ၏ညီမ။
  4. အဒေါ်—မိခင်၏ညီမ။

English translations of each entry done by me:

  1. Daw, (Social rule)—The word put in front of a woman's name as a show of politeness
  2. Daw Gyii—Mother's older sister
  3. Gyii Daw—Mother's younger sister
  4. A-Daw—Mother's younger sister

English translations of each entry by Google Translate as of 29 June 2024:

  1. ဒေါ်၊ (စည်း) Aunt (Hin)—a polite word used before a woman's name.
  2. ဒေါ်ကြီး* Daw Gyii—Mother's older sister.
  3. ကြီး*တော် Greatest—Mother's sister.
  4. အဒေါ် Aunt—mother's sister.

I'd highly encourage not trusting Google Translate as much in this as it is very unreliable for Burmese text. Though in spite of the inaccurate translations, my point still stands. If there are any other native Burmese speakers reading this, please confirm my translations.

This error seem to have arose from the fact that the words are similar and seem to be of same etymological origin. I've read once that the honorific was derived for referring to someone that is someone of similar age to one's aunt though I could find no source. That line of thinking is actually inferred in this archived discussion.

Still, my recommendation is to simply remove the inaccuracy so the sentence would be: "In Myanmar, Aung San Suu Kyi is often referred to as Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. Daw is not part of her name but is an honorific for any older and revered woman, akin to "Madam"."

Please let me know if you can find another source for the translations.


* Alternatively spelled ဂျီး for ဒေါ်ဂျီး which is also technically correct but considered archaic or careless spelling. LynnDieEule (talk) 18:07, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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