Talk:Beck v. Eiland-Hall: Difference between revisions
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{{notable Wikipedian|Isaac.Eiland-Hall|Eiland-Hall, Isaac}} |
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== Fark link == |
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I restored the link to the Fark thread in "External links," as the primary source credited by the creator of the website for his idea for his parody of Beck (''per'' [[WP:PRIMARY]]).[[User:Justmeherenow|<span style="font-family:Mistral"> '''↜J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u> E </u></span><span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e ''',''' now</span>]] 08:07, 4 October 2009 (UTC) |
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: Do you have a source for that? [http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090908/0321546127.shtml Techdirt] says the same thing but citing blogs for when a parody was started is just ignoring [[WP:RS]] on a multitude of levels. -- [[User:Ricky81682|Ricky81682]] ([[User talk:Ricky81682|talk]]) 08:13, 4 October 2009 (UTC) |
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|dykentry=... that in his response brief in '''''[[Beck v. Eiland-Hall]]''''', attorney '''[[Marc Randazza]]''' cited the [[Supreme Court of the United States|U.S. Supreme Court]] case ''[[Hustler Magazine v. Falwell]]''? |
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::"Google" found this: "The origin of the website is an Internet meme that came into being on Fark.com."---Harvard Law School's [[Berkman Center for Internet & Society|''Citizen Media Law Project'']] [http://www.citmedialaw.org/threats/beck-v-eiland-hall (''link:''] which source is not self-published, as far as I can tell, but a professional new media site?)[[User:Justmeherenow|<span style="font-family:Mistral"> '''↜J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u> E </u></span><span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e ''',''' now</span>]] 08:33, 4 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:::Does it help that I myself say this? I put two links on the site on the left - the two "Origin" links. One goes to the very first person ("oldweevil") that posted it. Link: http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=4608536&IDComment=54042337#c54042337 -- I saw that thread the next day, registered the domain, and the rest is history. I'm just not sure what works for sources with Wikipedia. Also, although I've found this talk page and article, I will restrict myself to commenting here on the talk page - I will refrain from editing the actual article itself. I can't believe it won't be deleted, but I think it's really cool to see it. It popped up on a google news search... If there's anything I can do to help out, please feel free to send an email to the email address I have posted on the site (shortest link: http://gb1990.com/ ). Any way I can help, I will (and I figure one of the ways to help is to NOT edit the article. heh.) [[User:Isaac.Eiland-Hall|Isaac.Eiland-Hall]] ([[User talk:Isaac.Eiland-Hall|talk]]) 10:14, 8 October 2009 (UTC) |
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==Title== |
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If kept, I think the title could be redone as suggested at the Glenn Beck talk page. I do not feel "Beck v. Eiland-Hall" would be appropriate just because the case is pending from what I understand. That would be approporiate if the case does go forward, though. "Rape satire of Glenn Beck" or something similar might be a little cleaner.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 02:13, 5 October 2009 (UTC) |
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: How about '''Glenn Beck rumor parody website'''. Clean, easy to remember, obvious what it means. [[User:Lawrencekhoo|LK]] ([[User talk:Lawrencekhoo|talk]]) 07:39, 5 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::Should we call it a [[rumor]]? Per are article a rumor is often viewed as an '''unverified''' account or explanation of events circulating from person to person and pertaining to an object, event, or issue in public concern. It was never started as a rumor, it has always been a satire meme. Also, it's not a law suit as far as I understand, it's just a compliant to the domain name board. [[User:Morphh|<span style="color:green">Morphh</span>]] <sup>[[user talk:Morphh|<span style="color:chocolate">(talk)</span>]]</sup> <small><i>12:24, 05 October 2009 (UTC)</i></small> |
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::: Well, it is a parody of a rumor website, i.e. a parody of the websites created by groups such as the [[birthers]]. How about we call it '''Glenn Beck parody rumor website''' or '''Glenn Beck rumor website parody'''. Which makes it more clear that it is a parody of a rumor website about Glenn Beck? [[User:Lawrencekhoo|LK]] ([[User talk:Lawrencekhoo|talk]]) 04:46, 6 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::::LK, of course Wikipedia needs to avoid implying the parody to have been 'by'' Beck, as well -- but, once you figure out the formulation you like best, keeping in mind the ambiguity issue I've just raised, I think it would be OK for you to move the article there, until or unless opinion coalesces around moving to the name of a future legal case(?)[[User:Justmeherenow|'''''↜ (‘<span style="font-family:Mistral">''J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u> E </u></span>’<span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e ''',''' now</span>''''')''']] 11:05, 6 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::::''Per'' [[WP:Naming conventions]], I've boldly moved the article to "[[Glenn Beck – Isaac Eiland-Hall controversy]]," which I believe to be less imprecise and ambiguous than the previous title of "[[Rumor website parody of Glenn Beck]]." (There are many websites parodizing Beck while mentioning rumors.)[[User:Justmeherenow|'''''↜ (‘<span style="font-family:Mistral">''J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u> E </u></span>’<span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e ''',''' now</span>''''')''']] 23:32, 7 October 2009 (UTC) |
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==Sources== |
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It is good to see someone went through the effort to format the sources. It does come across a little knee-jerk in response to the AfD as is. We still need to consider quality so consider removing it if anything looks overly bloggish and lets move them into inline cites instead of that list.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 11:03, 6 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:It looks like Bostonist is part of Gothamist which isn't a no no on the RS noticeboard but it looks to be user contributed. Isn't needed for now but the refs are here in case they need to be checked or reincluded: |
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*http://bostonist.com/2009/10/01/today_in_randazzas_zings_glenn_beck.php |
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*http://bostonist.com/2009/09/30/satirical_glenn_beck_website_based.php |
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[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 12:59, 6 October 2009 (UTC) |
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===Google bomb=== |
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Please insert it if anyone finds a source for this. Also,info on Youtube and additional methods of propagation could be of use.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 12:51, 6 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:Does this work for a source? [http://www.google-bombs.com/?p=367 http://www.google-bombs.com/?p=367 Glenn Beck Being Google Bombed!] --[[Special:Contributions/70.181.237.167|70.181.237.167]] ([[User talk:70.181.237.167|talk]]) 09:42, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::Not really, no. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 10:47, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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I would be happy to contribute the music video I made- [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gINwqd2iV8g Glenn Beck (No Alibi)] under a CC license to the Commons if appropriate --[[User:Gwsuperfan|Gwsuperfan]] ([[User talk:Gwsuperfan|talk]]) 10:01, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:@[[User:Gwsuperfan|Gwsuperfan]] - though the song itself at [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gINwqd2iV8g Glenn Beck (No Alibi)] may be your own original content, the video and images used are not. Thus the video portion of the music video could not be licensed by you under a free use license. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 10:46, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::@[[User:Cirt|Cirt]] - I can get the audio only. [[User:Gwsuperfan|Gwsuperfan]] ([[User talk:Gwsuperfan|talk]]) 11:18, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:::That doesn't meet the policies and guidelines in a few ways (I'll go with "Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a Featured article." per [[WP:ELNO]]) Funny stuff, though.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 11:36, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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==Layout== |
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I have said at the AfD that people might be chicken littling and assuming this is an attack page. The meme./attack/whatever is shit. Now that that is out of the way: this has the information to expand past a stub. We have to watch out for [[WP:RECENTISM]] but we should get a [[WP:LAYOUT|layout]]. The lead can be the shortest part so what are the important aspects to use as subject headers? '''Lead'''->'''Meme'''(essentially "history" + "description"->'''Legal'''->'''See also'''(list of internet phenomena + others if not in the prose)->'''Refs'''->'''External links''' (should just be site for now)). Any thoughts?[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 11:54, 6 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:I started it, with some subsections. :) '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 16:55, 6 October 2009 (UTC) |
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== Additional possible sources of info == |
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*{{cite news | last =Schmelzer | first =Paul | title =Glenn Beck appeals to international body to shut down satirical site | work =[[Minnesota Independent]] | date = |
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October 7, 2009 | url =http://minnesotaindependent.com/46546/glenn-beck-keith-ellison-rape-murder-site | accessdate = 2009-10-08 }} |
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* {{cite web | last =Brayton | first =Ed | title =Brilliant Response to Beck Case | work =ScienceBlogs | publisher =Seed Media Group | date =October 6, 2009 | url =http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/10/brilliant_response_to_beck_cas.php | accessdate = 2009-10-06}} |
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*{{cite web | title =Beck DESTROYED after efforts to get rid of site parodying him. | work =[[Daily Kos]] | publisher =Kos Media, LLC | date =October 6, 2009 | url =http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/6/790181/-Beck-DESTROYED-after-efforts-to-get-rid-of-site-parodying-him. | accessdate = 2009-10-06}} |
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* {{cite web | last =Brayton | first =Ed | title =Beck Tries to Kill Parody Website | work =ScienceBlogs | publisher =Seed Media Group | date =October 5, 2009 | url =http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/10/beck_tries_to_kill_parody_webs.php | accessdate = 2009-10-06}} |
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*{{cite web | last =Schmidt | first =Steffen | title =Media Meme’s and Glenn Beck – Truth or Lies? | work =[[Des Moines Register]] | publisher =The Des Moines Register | date =October 5, 2009 | url =http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2009/10/05/media-memes-and-glenn-beck-truth-or-lies/ | accessdate =2009-10-06 }} |
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*{{cite web | last =Sawyer | first =Rick | title =Today in Randazza's Zings: Glenn Beck, Why Do You Hate America? | work =[[Bostonist]] | publisher =[[Gothamist]] | date = |
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October 1, 2009 | url =http://bostonist.com/2009/10/01/today_in_randazzas_zings_glenn_beck.php | accessdate = 2009-10-06 }} |
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*{{cite web | last =Sawyer | first =Rick | title =Gloucester Lawyer Defends Satirical Glenn Beck Website | work =[[Bostonist]] | publisher =[[Gothamist]] | date = |
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September 30, 2009 | url =http://bostonist.com/2009/09/30/satirical_glenn_beck_website_based.php | accessdate = 2009-10-06 }} |
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'''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) |
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:As I and others find sources, they are put here: http://didglennbeckrapeandmurderayounggirlin1990.com/discussion/index.php?topic=50.0 -- don't know if that helps, but I hope it does. [[User:Isaac.Eiland-Hall|Isaac.Eiland-Hall]] ([[User talk:Isaac.Eiland-Hall|talk]]) 10:11, 8 October 2009 (UTC) |
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==Can we not just name the website once?== |
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This article would be a lot cleaerr and useful if we just named website. I don't think we need to name it more than once, and it doesn't need to be in the title of the article. And I fail to see how it's BLP violation if it's put in the appropriate context. If you came to this article and were unfamilar with the meme, you'd have no idea what this article was talking about. If knew the Gottfried/Sagat joke, then you might be able to figure it out, but I'm not so sure. I think with careful writing and appropriate context we can use the website name--once--and make this article a whole lot clearer while still conforming with BLP requirements. [[User:Yilloslime|Yilloslime]] <sup>[[User talk:Yilloslime|<small>'''T'''</small>]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-1.040ex;">[[Special:Contributions/Yilloslime|'''<small>C</small>''']]</sub> 23:45, 7 October 2009 (UTC) |
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If it helps, there are three domains that go to the site: GlennBeckRapedAndMurderedAYoungGirlIn1990.com, DidGlennBeckRapeAndMurderAYoungGirlIn1990.com, and gb1990.com. Perhaps the latter would be useful? [[User:Isaac.Eiland-Hall|Isaac.Eiland-Hall]] ([[User talk:Isaac.Eiland-Hall|talk]]) 10:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC) |
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== Lawyer interviewed == |
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*{{cite news | last =Brayton | first =Ed | title =Interview with Marc Randazza | work =Declaring Independence | publisher =[[WPRR]] | date =October 8, 2009 |location=[[Grand Rapids, Michigan]]}} |
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The lawyer for Eiland-Hall, Marc Randazza, was interviewed by Ed Brayton on the program ''Declaring Independence'', on [[WPRR]], See some additional info at [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABuTpPSK_NA], [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hGqg360NF4], [http://gwsuperfan.blogspot.com/2009/10/randazza-on-radio.html] and [http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/10/radio_show_preview_10-8-09.php]. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 05:29, 10 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:Nice find. Do you know off the top of your head if there is a transcript floating around?[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 05:44, 10 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::I do not know. In the interview, Randazza discusses the [[Supreme Court of the United States]] case, ''[[Hustler Magazine v. Falwell]]''. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 05:46, 10 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::: A friend of mine has transcribed it. Would that be helpful? I need to clean it up a little, which was planning on doing today... then uploading it, perhaps to gb1990.net where I have the legal docs posted - but maybe in gb1990.net/interviews or something... I'll edit this when I get it uploaded... [[User:Isaac.Eiland-Hall|Isaac.Eiland-Hall]] ([[User talk:Isaac.Eiland-Hall|talk]]) 15:28, 11 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::::That would be a fantastic primary source! Thank you, Isaac.[[User:Justmeherenow|'''''↜ (‘<span style="font-family:Mistral">''J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u> E </u></span>’<span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e ''',''' now</span>''''')''']] 16:12, 11 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:::::Got it here: http://gb1990.net/radio/20091008-MarcRandazzaInterview.txt - Full disclosure: It was a friend of mine who transcribed it, although the interview itself is in that same directory on the server, so anyone can listen for themselves :) And I'm glad to be able to help. This is really awesome to see this article here. :) [[User:Isaac.Eiland-Hall|Isaac.Eiland-Hall]] ([[User talk:Isaac.Eiland-Hall|talk]]) 23:23, 11 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:::::::I ask because I want to use the cite episode template. A link is not required but it would make verification easier for people. Unfortunately, we can not link to copyright violations which I think is the case for the video/audio presented above.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 23:37, 11 October 2009 (UTC) |
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* Isaac, I don't know what its copyright might be but still I went and parked a copy of your transcipt here: [[Talk:Beck v. Eiland-Hall/Marc Randazza - interview]] -- for the time being.[[User:Justmeherenow|'''''↜ (‘<span style="font-family:Mistral">''J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u> E </u></span>’<span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e ''',''' now</span>''''')''']] 04:11, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:Not an appropriate usage, IMO, as the copyright is likely that of [[WPRR]]. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 04:18, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::Yeah, Cirt, probably not. |
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::Hey, Isaac, do you think that WPRR's Ed Brayton has got the wherewithall to grant it a Creative Commons 2.0 license so I could post it on Wikisource?[[User:Justmeherenow|'''''↜ (‘<span style="font-family:Mistral">''J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u> E </u></span>’<span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e ''',''' now</span>''''')''']] 04:29, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:::I'm on it. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 04:36, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:::::See [[commons:File:2009 10 08 Marc Randazza interview.ogg|Audio]], and [[s:2009-10-08 Interview of Marc Randazza by Ed Brayton|Text]]. :) '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 15:11, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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== Randazza's website "The Legal Satyricon" == |
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Some info here [http://randazza.wordpress.com/2009/09/28/glenn-becks-wipo-complaint/]. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 06:36, 10 October 2009 (UTC) |
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== Links and possible sources to go through == |
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#{{cite news | last =Brayton | first =Ed | title =Interview with Marc Randazza | work =Declaring Independence | publisher =[[WPRR]] | date =October 8, 2009 |location=[[Grand Rapids, Michigan]]}} |
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#{{cite web | title =Glenn Beck Seeks to Take Down Parody Website Using 'Unpatriotic' International Law | work =ChattahBox | publisher =chattahbox.com | date =October 8, 2009 | url =http://chattahbox.com/entertainment/2009/10/08/glenn-beck-seeks-to-take-down-parody-website-using-unpatriotic-international-law/ | accessdate = 2009-10-09}} |
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# {{cite web | last =Brayton | first =Ed | title =Radio Show Preview 10-8-09 | work =ScienceBlogs | publisher =Seed Media Group | date =October 8, 2009 | url =http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/10/radio_show_preview_10-8-09.php | accessdate = 2009-10-09}} |
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#{{cite news | last =Schmelzer | first =Paul | title =Glenn Beck appeals to international body to shut down satirical site | work =[[Minnesota Independent]] | date = |
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October 7, 2009 | url =http://minnesotaindependent.com/46546/glenn-beck-keith-ellison-rape-murder-site | accessdate = 2009-10-08 }} |
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# {{cite web | last =Brayton | first =Ed | title =Brilliant Response to Beck Case | work =ScienceBlogs | publisher =Seed Media Group | date =October 6, 2009 | url =http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/10/brilliant_response_to_beck_cas.php | accessdate = 2009-10-06}} |
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#{{cite web | title =Beck DESTROYED after efforts to get rid of site parodying him. | work =[[Daily Kos]] | publisher =Kos Media, LLC | date =October 6, 2009 | url =http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/10/6/790181/-Beck-DESTROYED-after-efforts-to-get-rid-of-site-parodying-him. | accessdate = 2009-10-06}} |
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# {{cite web | last =Brayton | first =Ed | title =Beck Tries to Kill Parody Website | work =ScienceBlogs | publisher =Seed Media Group | date =October 5, 2009 | url =http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/10/beck_tries_to_kill_parody_webs.php | accessdate = 2009-10-06}} |
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#{{cite web | last =Schmidt | first =Steffen | title =Media Meme’s and Glenn Beck – Truth or Lies? | work =[[Des Moines Register]] | publisher =The Des Moines Register | date =October 5, 2009 | url =http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2009/10/05/media-memes-and-glenn-beck-truth-or-lies/ | accessdate =2009-10-06 }} |
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#{{cite web | last =Sawyer | first =Rick | title =Today in Randazza's Zings: Glenn Beck, Why Do You Hate America? | work =[[Bostonist]] | publisher =[[Gothamist]] | date =October 1, 2009 | url =http://bostonist.com/2009/10/01/today_in_randazzas_zings_glenn_beck.php | accessdate = 2009-10-06 }} |
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#{{cite web | last =Sawyer | first =Rick | title =Gloucester Lawyer Defends Satirical Glenn Beck Website | work =[[Bostonist]] | publisher =[[Gothamist]] | date = |
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September 30, 2009 | url =http://bostonist.com/2009/09/30/satirical_glenn_beck_website_based.php | accessdate = 2009-10-06 }} |
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#{{cite web | title =Traffic details from Alexa | work =[[Alexa Internet]] | publisher =Alexa Internet, Inc. | date =2009 | url =http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/glennbeckrapedandmurderedayounggirlin1990.com | accessdate = 2009-10-06 }} |
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#{{cite news | first=Jessica | last=Hesslam | title=Bay State lawyer takes on FOX yakker | date=2009-10-02 | publisher=[[Boston Herald]] | url =http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1201618&srvc=home&position=emailed | accessdate = 2009-10-03 }} |
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#{{cite news| first=Wendy | last=Davis |url=http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=114601|title=Glenn Beck Urges Parody Site Be Shut Down| publisher=MediaPost|date=2009-09-30|accessdate = 2009-10-04}} |
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#{{cite news| first=Nate | last=Anderson |url=http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/09/can-a-mere-domain-name-be-defamation-glenn-beck-says-yes.ars|title=Can a mere domain name be defamation? Glenn Beck says yes| publisher=[[Ars Technica]]|date=2009-09-09|accessdate = 2009-10-04}} |
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#{{cite news| first=Robert | last=Quigley |url=http://www.mediaite.com/online/anti-beck-backlash-hits-nauseating-extreme-with-murder-and-rape-meme/ |title=Anti-Beck Backlash Hits Nauseating Extreme with “Murder and Rape” Meme (UPDATED THRICE)| publisher=[[Mediaite]]|date=2009-09-03|accessdate = 2009-10-04}} |
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#{{cite news| author=Citizen Media Law Project staff |url=http://www.citmedialaw.org/threats/beck-v-eiland-hall|title=Beck v. Eiland-Hall|author=Citizen Media Law Project staff| publisher=[[Citizen Media Law Project]]|date=2009|accessdate=2009-10-29}} |
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#{{cite news| first=John | last=Cook |url=http://gawker.com/5355901/glenn-beck-pr-genius-spreads-the-false-rumor-he-raped-and-murdered-a-young-girl-in-1990|title=Glenn Beck, PR Genius, Spreads the False Rumor He Raped and Murdered a Young Girl in 1990| publisher=[[Gawker]]|date=2009-09-09|accessdate = 2009-10-04}} |
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#{{cite news| author=Citizen Media Law Project staff |url=http://www.citmedialaw.org/blog/2009/will-glenn-beck-sue-defamatory-website-2009|title=Will Glenn Beck Sue a Defamatory Website in 2009?| publisher=[[Citizen Media Law Project]]|date=2009-09-11|accessdate = 2009-10-04}} |
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#{{cite news| first=Eriq | last=Gardner ||url=http://www.adweek.com/aw/content_display/news/agency/e3i49ed8b00bbe771aa3d0035e57251257f|title=Glenn Beck Satire Site Fights Back| publisher=[[Adweek]]|date=2009-09-29|accessdate = 2009-10-04}} |
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#{{cite news| first=Andy | last=Carvin |url=http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2009/10/when_internet_memes_go_to_cour.html|title=Glenn Beck Internet Meme Gets Ugly| publisher=[[National Public Radio]]|date=2009-10-02 |accessdate = 2009-10-04}} |
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#{{cite news| first=Andrew | last=Allemann |url=http://domainnamewire.com/2009/10/01/hot-off-press-domain-owner-responds-to-glenn-beck/|title=Hot off Press: Domain Owner Responds to Glenn Beck |publisher=Domain Name Wire|date=2009-10-01|accessdate = 2009-10-04}} |
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#{{cite news| first=Jack | last=Bremer |url=http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/53410,news,fox-news-star-glenn-beck-fights-rape-and-murder-website|title=Fox’s Glenn Beck fights ‘rape and murder’ website| publisher=[[The First Post]]|date=2009-09-11|accessdate = 2009-10-04}} |
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#{{cite news| first=Nate | last=Anderson |url=http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/09/memes-strike-back-gerbils-gay-blood-elves-and-glenn-beck.ars|title=Memes strike back: Gerbils, gay blood elves, and Glenn Beck| publisher=[[Ars Technica]]|date=2009-09-30|accessdate = 2009-10-04}} |
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#{{cite news| first=Jeffrey | last=Weiss |url=http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/09/17/the-glenn-beck-as-murderer-meme-vaccine-or-infection#|title=The 'Glenn Beck as Murderer' Meme: Vaccine or Infection?|author=Jeffrey Weiss| publisher=[[Politics Daily]]|date=2009-09-17|accessdate = 2009-10-04}} |
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#{{cite news| first=Michael | last=Masnick |url=http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090908/0321546127.shtml|title=Glenn Beck Didn't Rape And Murder Anyone... But He Doesn't Want Websites Discussing It| publisher=[[Techdirt]]|date=2009-09-08|accessdate = 2009-10-04}} |
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#{{cite news|url=http://foxnewsboycott.com/glenn-beck/glenn-beck-introduced-to-the-streisand-effect/|title=Glenn Beck Introduced to the Streisand Effect| publisher=FoxNewsBoycott.com|date=2009-09-10|accessdate = 2009-10-04}} |
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#{{cite news|| first=Jim | last=Emerson |url=http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/2009/10/all_your_beck_are_belong_to_us.html| publisher=Chicago Sun-Times |date=2009-10-02|accessdate = 2009-10-11}} |
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#{{cite news|| first=Billy | last=Manes |url=http://www.orlandoweekly.com/features/story.asp?id=13504|title=Happytown |publisher=Orlando Weekly |date=2009-10-07|accessdate = 2009-10-12}} |
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---- |
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'''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) |
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==Free speech== |
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''Randazza made this request due to Beck's political commentary favoring the United States Constitution over international law.[12][13]'' It should be made clear that they were trying to make a point. They are essentially going "haha in your face haha in your face". I am trying to find a source summarizing that a little more professionally, though.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 00:02, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:Per [[WP:V]], best to go by what the sources say, instead of what we believe to be true. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 03:41, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::I agree. I am saying we shoulod double check to see if there is a source. I did not find one from a quick check and don't want to cherry pick if only one lame one is found. However, I think it is noteworthy if a good source does discuss it. I also think it is funny but that is my personal thoughts on it.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 03:50, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:::I'd agree with that. :P '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 03:58, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::::A couple of blogs point out the irony but I hate using blogs. [http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/biography.html Jim Emerson] looks decnt but it is still a blog.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 04:22, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:::::Well, that guy appears to be a legitimate [[journalist]] for the ''[[Chicago Sun-Times]]''... '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 04:23, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::::::I would like to add "irony/the irony was commented on..." somewhere in the line but am having a hard time piecing in where.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 04:32, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:::::::Best to have that sort of stuff in the ''Commentary'' section. And keep the other sections of the article just to a bland, factual history in chronological order. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 04:35, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::::::::Blogs written by a notable authority on a subject are OK to use ''about'' that subject. (This would be determined by whether a blog's author is a generally recognized authority on the subject, according to sources themselves deemed to be reliable, or else through the blog's having won awards, or through the blog's being used as a source by sources themselves deemed reliable, etc. [And, of course, on an unrelated point: a blog's author is considered, generally, an authority about ''him or herself,'' with regard to mundane and unlikely-to-be-controversial details of his or her life, as well.])[[User:Justmeherenow|'''''↜ (‘<span style="font-family:Mistral">''J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u> E </u></span>’<span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e ''',''' now</span>''''')''']] 22:20, 18 October 2009 (UTC) |
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==Disclaimers== |
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''Eiland-Hall placed two disclaimers at the top of the site which prominently describe it as a form of parody.[1]'' Another source (it should be in the refs and I will start looking if needed) said that it was a disclaimer at the bottom. Through OR (blast!) I know that for some time it was only a single disclaimer at the bottom. It also looks like we are starting to play for the defence. Most of the sources are poking fun at Beck for this and we need to make sure we do not unintentionally adopt that tone.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 00:05, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:Well, as far as what the sources say, that is what we have to go by. Per [[WP:V]]. [[WP:V|''The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth'']]. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 03:41, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::Agian, it was just a heads up in case anyone came across some other sources.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 04:03, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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Fixed.[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 04:10, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:Looks good. :) '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 05:21, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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== Notice: Is anybody interested in helping to expand == |
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or cleanup the article "[[Marc Randazza]]"? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Justmeherenow|Justmeherenow]] ([[User talk:Justmeherenow|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Justmeherenow|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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:I am currently focusing on cleanup/expansion of this article. Will take a look at that one later. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 20:33, 12 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::Update: Formatted all the cites in the article, using [[WP:CIT]]. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 20:55, 17 October 2009 (UTC) |
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== Not NPOV == |
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I'm diametrically opposed to anything Beck does, but this article seems to go completely out of its way to bash him. The large number of quotes discussing the lack of merit in the case seems like a huge pile-on, and its only purpose seems to be to make it impossible for anyone to think that Beck is anything but an idiot. While ''schadenfreude'' is all fun and good, that's counter to our purpose here. Can we make the point more succinctly? |
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Also, while I'm at it, the article is awfully repetitive and in serious need of a copy editor. <span style="font-family:Verdana; ">'''[[User:Howcheng|<span style="color:#33C;">howcheng</span>]]''' <small>{[[User talk:Howcheng|chat]]}</small></span> 17:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:Perhaps you could suggest some [[Wikipedia:Verifiability#Sources|independent]] [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable]] [[Wikipedia:No original research#Primary, secondary and tertiary sources|secondary sources]] that present an alternate perspective? '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 21:05, 19 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::It might be the way the information is presented. The Commentary section reads like a series of flattering movie reviews instead of commentary on an internet meme or a legal dispute. I personally don't feel that every single piece needs to be mentioned since it does have weight concerns due to the shear amount of content. Is all of the information relevant and if it is can it be summarized in a more concise manner?[[User:Cptnono|Cptnono]] ([[User talk:Cptnono|talk]]) 21:12, 19 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:::It is a bit too soon to start nitpicking. Best to sit back and compile more information, research, and secondary sources, and analyze in retrospect after the entire case has concluded. But the ''Commentary'' is what it is so far, commentary on the various aspects of the legal case. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 21:17, 19 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::::Update: I did a bit of copyediting, trimmed some quotes, and removed a significant amount of material [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Beck_v._Eiland-Hall&action=historysubmit&diff=320884296&oldid=320847669]. :) Cheers, '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 21:56, 19 October 2009 (UTC) |
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== New info, 21 Oct 2009 == |
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Didn't know where else to put this, but new developments - Beck filed, Arbitrator ordered, and we filed a surreply. Info here: http://gb1990.com/legal.php - again, putting this in talk here because I'm not touching the article itself. [[User:Isaac.Eiland-Hall|Isaac.Eiland-Hall]] ([[User talk:Isaac.Eiland-Hall|talk]]) 18:05, 21 October 2009 (UTC) |
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# And there's [http://www.thewhir.com/web-hosting-news/102109_Glenn_Beck_Accuses_Nasty_Domain_Of_Misleading_Visitors ''this''], too.[[User:Justmeherenow|'''''↜ (‘<span style="font-family:Mistral">''J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u> E </u></span>’<span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e ''',''' now</span>''''')''']] 23:34, 21 October 2009 (UTC) |
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# ''[Edited]:'' And [http://www.undispatch.com/node/9054 ''this''].[[User:Justmeherenow|'''''↜ (‘<span style="font-family:Mistral">''J'''us'''t </span><span style="font-family:Mistral;font-size:x-small"> M<u> E </u></span>’<span style="font-family:Mistral">h'''''er''e ''',''' now</span>''''')''']] 20:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC) |
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== External links modified == |
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:Yes, I'll update that soon. ;) '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 00:16, 22 October 2009 (UTC) |
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::Update: Added a bit, I will add more later. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 00:40, 22 October 2009 (UTC) |
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Hello fellow Wikipedians, |
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Regarding [http://www.undispatch.com/node/9054], not sure that would add anything of substance to the article. On an interesting sidenote as far as sources go, [http://www.undispatch.com/node/9054 this post] references [http://twitter.com/evgenymorozov/status/5100977935 this tweet] at the bottom of the post, which in turn references [http://www.jacksonnjonline.com/2009/10/23/glenn-beck-continues-case-against-parody-website/ this post], which appears to have plagiarized its info from [http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/US_free_speech_lawyer_Marc_Randazza_discusses_Glenn_Beck_parody this ''Wikinews'' article.] '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 21:21, 23 October 2009 (UTC) |
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I have just modified {{plural:6|one external link|6 external links}} on [[Beck v. Eiland-Hall]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=746793850 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes: |
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== Start class? == |
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*Added {{tlx|dead link}} tag to http://www.statepress.com/node/9135 |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131109051401/http://gawker.com/5355901/glenn-beck-pr-genius-spreads-the-false-rumor-he-raped-and-murdered-a-young-girl-in-1990 to http://gawker.com/5355901/glenn-beck-pr-genius-spreads-the-false-rumor-he-raped-and-murdered-a-young-girl-in-1990 |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120224090707/http://bostonist.com/2009/09/30/satirical_glenn_beck_website_based.php to http://bostonist.com/2009/09/30/satirical_glenn_beck_website_based.php |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120224090724/http://bostonist.com/2009/10/01/today_in_randazzas_zings_glenn_beck.php to http://bostonist.com/2009/10/01/today_in_randazzas_zings_glenn_beck.php |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120224090800/http://bostonist.com/2009/10/21/randazza-glenn-beck.php to http://bostonist.com/2009/10/21/randazza-glenn-beck.php |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131109053242/http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/newsbyid.asp?idx=166251&cat1=newswire to http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/newsbyid.asp?idx=166251&cat1=newswire |
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*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091111184454/http://gawker.com/5400754/glenn-beck-meets-internet-loses to http://gawker.com/5400754/glenn-beck-meets-internet-loses |
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' or '''failed''' to let others know (documentation at {{tlx|Sourcecheck}}). |
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I don't think "start class" is befitting of this article anymore; it seems well sourced and thorough (though a little repetitious), but I didn't do any source [[WP:V|verification]]. I am going to nominate for a re-assessment. //[[USER:Blaxthos|Blaxthos]] <small>( [[User Talk:Blaxthos|t]] / [[Special:Contributions/Blaxthos|c]] )</small> 05:22, 23 October 2009 (UTC) |
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:Thanks for the kind words about the article's quality. :) I changed the rating to C-class. '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 06:15, 23 October 2009 (UTC) |
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{{sourcecheck|checked=false}} |
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== When will this case be decided? == |
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Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 16:14, 29 October 2016 (UTC) |
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As far as I can tell from the article, this case has not yet concluded. Assuming that's correct, when will it be decided? This makes a good story, but it feels a bit 'unfinished' at the moment. :) [[User:Robofish|Robofish]] ([[User talk:Robofish|talk]]) 00:38, 30 October 2009 (UTC) |
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External links modified
[edit]Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 6 external links on Beck v. Eiland-Hall. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120224090707/http://bostonist.com/2009/09/30/satirical_glenn_beck_website_based.php to http://bostonist.com/2009/09/30/satirical_glenn_beck_website_based.php
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120224090724/http://bostonist.com/2009/10/01/today_in_randazzas_zings_glenn_beck.php to http://bostonist.com/2009/10/01/today_in_randazzas_zings_glenn_beck.php
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120224090800/http://bostonist.com/2009/10/21/randazza-glenn-beck.php to http://bostonist.com/2009/10/21/randazza-glenn-beck.php
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131109053242/http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/newsbyid.asp?idx=166251&cat1=newswire to http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/news/newsbyid.asp?idx=166251&cat1=newswire
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091111184454/http://gawker.com/5400754/glenn-beck-meets-internet-loses to http://gawker.com/5400754/glenn-beck-meets-internet-loses
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