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People, this should be an enclycopedia, not a political site. People quote from this website! It should be from a neutral perspective!
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== Merge proposal: [[The Ashcroft Group]] to John Ashcroft ==
note to self (or anyone else who gets the chance to look this up before I do): the [[Operation TIPS]] page says that the U.S. post office is now considering participating in spite of having balked originally. Verify. [[User:Koyaanis Qatsi|--KQ]]


The Ashcroft Group has beent agged for notability for 7 years, but could be a valuable section here. [[User:Boleyn|Boleyn]] ([[User talk:Boleyn|talk]]) 14:11, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
note to self: you forget a lot, don't you? [[User:Koyaanis Qatsi|--KQ]]
:I've gone ahead and made the redirect since nobody objected. It made sense since that page was a stub and it seems to fit better here. [[User:FuriouslySerene|FuriouslySerene]] ([[User talk:FuriouslySerene|talk]]) 18:03, 1 April 2016 (UTC)


== External links modified ==
here's [http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/itgic/1097/ijge/gj-7.htm this delicious link] for anyone with a keen sense of irony. [[User:Koyaanis Qa
tsi|--KQ]]
* LOL [[User:erzengel]] 15 Apr 03


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
----
Should a link to [[Ashcroftism]] be put here? It's currently an orphan.- [[User:Crenner|Crenner]] 02:31 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
----
Is the "personal quotes" section necessary? Esp. given the content, it seems like just a way to smear Ashcroft. Moreover, we don't have a comparable section for other famous people, e.g. [[George W. Bush]], [[Al Gore]], or [[Janet Reno]]. I will remove it on Tuesday (2 days from now) if nobody objects. [[User:Meelar|Meelar]] 04:16, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC)


I have just added archive links to {{plural:3|one external link|3 external links}} on [[John Ashcroft]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=677934328 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
Maybe link it to [[Wikiquote]], like [[George W. Bush]]'s Page is? If no one minds, I shall do so in a few days.
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150713143406/http://www.lawteam.com/our-team/evan-fetterman/ to http://www.lawteam.com/our-team/evan-fetterman/
[[User:NerdOfTheNorth|NerdOfTheNorth]] July 27, 2004
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20081027164557/http://www.cnn.com:80/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/09/cabinet.resignations/index.html to http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/09/cabinet.resignations/index.html
----
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To point out that most people in govt. disagree with some laws is to miss the specific nature of the criticism of Ashcroft--disagreement with abortion laws is more contentious than most subjects. Also, the criticism is not necessarily due to his religion. I have no problems with John Ashcroft's religion; it's his views on abortion that give me the willies. All this means I'm reverting. [[User:Meelar|Meelar]] 20:28, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)


== Resignation ==


John Aschroft resigned on November 2, confirmed on November 9. But so will all of Bush's Cabinet members. Is Ashcorft's permanent (yet?)? How should it be worded in the article? We seem to have a quasi-revert war. --[[User:Whosyourjudas|Whosyourjudas]] [[User talk:Whosyourjudas|(talk)]] 00:54, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
:Permanent. --[[User:Wetman|Wetman]] 21:27, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
::Yes. Never mind now, apparently. --[[User:Whosyourjudas|Whosyourjudas]] [[User talk:Whosyourjudas|(talk)]] 21:46, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)


*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120220000917/http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/050306/guns.html to http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/050306/guns.html
Ashcroft is still technically the Attorney General. He's announced his resignation, and a replacement has been nominated, but he hasn't yet left the position of AG. According the White House, he'll stay on until a replacement is confirmed [http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/latimests/20041110/ts_latimes/ashcroftcommercechiefevansresignfromcabinet]. And the [http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/index.html Justice Department] website still lists him as AG. Until he actually leaves the office, the article should say that Ashcroft "is" the AG, not "was". - [[User:Walkiped|Walkiped]] 21:09, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)


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==Record as Attorney General==
there is very little on what ashcroft actually ''did'' as Attorney General so far. --[[User:Wetman|Wetman]] 21:27, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)


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== The "moderate/dead skunk" quote ==


Cheers. —[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 12:21, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
I don't think this has any historical relevance to anything. Sorry to not have a sense of humor about it, but hey, that's life...


== Joseph Massino ==
== Compare the Ashcroft article to the Janet Reno article ==


<nowiki>One of [[John Ashcroft]]'s final acts as Attorney General was to order federal prosecutors to seek the death penalty for Massino.<ref>{{cite news|last=Glaberson|first=William|title=Judge Objects to Ashcroft Bid for a Mobster's Execution|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/13/nyregion/13mob.html?ref=roslynnrmauskopf&pagewanted=print&position=|accessdate=2012-04-21|newspaper=The New York Times|date=2004-11-13}}</ref></nowiki> [[User:The Quixotic Potato|The Quixotic Potato]] ([[User talk:The Quixotic Potato|talk]]) 15:55, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
It seems that the tenor of the Ashcroft article is much more critical & tongue in cheek than the Reno article. In the Reno article there is only casual mention of the two most disconcerting events ever foisted upon the American people by a sitting Attorney General, the Koresh compound slaughter, and the Elian Gonzalez debacle. --[[User:Spacebuffalo|spacebuffalo]] 12:58, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)


== Duplication of "curtain" info ==
Um… [[Palmer Raids]]? [[User:Carpeicthus|Carpeicthus]] 03:56, Jan 5, 2005 (UTC)
The information re the curtain being drawn in front of two statues (Spirit of Justice, a female, and the male Majesty of Justice) occurs in two sections of this entry.
It is more fully covered in the section "Political Issues" than in "As U.S. Attorney General." I was planning to eliminate the less detailed version but felt someone might have a reason it should be mentioned twice (?)
[[User:JeanEva Rose|JeanEva Rose]] ([[User talk:JeanEva Rose|talk]]) 21:45, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
: Well done, thank you. [[Special:Contributions/2601:246:C700:19D:B160:B273:E4A3:8B0F|2601:246:C700:19D:B160:B273:E4A3:8B0F]] ([[User talk:2601:246:C700:19D:B160:B273:E4A3:8B0F|talk]]) 05:50, 31 January 2020 (UTC)


== Anointing with oil ==
== External links modified ==


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
[[User:Gzornenplatz|Gzornenplatz]] added the following line:
:''Whenever he was sworn in to any political office, he had himself [[anointing|anointed]] with [[cooking oil]].''


I have just modified 4 external links on [[John Ashcroft]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=776909475 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
I modified it to read:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090523090051/http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/01/16/hearings/print.html to http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/01/16/hearings/print.html
:''Whenever he was sworn in to any political office, he had himself [[Anointing|anointed with oil]].''
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120418111431/http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/07/senate.missouri/ to http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/07/senate.missouri/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080615012748/http://sopr.senate.gov/ to http://sopr.senate.gov/
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110516205806/http://www.whitehouse.org/media/ashcroft-bacon/ to http://www.whitehouse.org/media/ashcroft-bacon/


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I used the edit summary, "[[Cooking oil]] link serves no purpose."


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Gzornenplatz reverted, with the edit summary, "Well, it was cooking oil."


Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 02:23, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
How do you think it should read? [[User:TacoDeposit|Taco Deposit]] | [[User_talk:TacoDeposit|Talk-o Deposit]] 15:02, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)


== External links modified ==
: I don't see the type of oil used as relevant. The fact that he had himself annointed is the relevant fact. The only purpose I see to saying "cooking oil" instead of just "oil" would be to attempt to ridicule the annointing. I think it would be better NPOV to simply mention the annointing and let people accept or ridicule it as they wish. [[User:Kenj0418|Kenj0418]] 00:40, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)


Hello fellow Wikipedians,
: Someone unnamed has put the "cooking" back. I'm reverting to TacoDeposit's last edit. Does anyone else have an opinion on the relevance of "cooking oil" vs. "oil". I don't see how it maters whether he used [[Chrism]], [[cooking oil]], or [[motor oil]]. The relevant fact is the annointing itself - and that it implies that he see's his public office as a part of a religious duty. [[User:Kenj0418|Kenj0418]] 22:21, Feb 16, 2005 (UTC)


I have just modified one external link on [[John Ashcroft]]. Please take a moment to review [[special:diff/812297632|my edit]]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
:: I have removed the "cooking" again. Though I think it is completely irrelevant to the article, I would would be interested in evidence that it was cooking oil ''every'' time. Of course the chrism used by sacramental church is typically olive-oil based, which is used in cooking as well. Perhaps every article that deals with anointing should changed to refer to cooking oil. [[User:Holford|Holford]] 4 July 2005 03:19 (UTC)
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070311114121/http://www.whitehouse.org/media/ashcroft-bacon/index.asp to http://www.whitehouse.org/media/ashcroft-bacon/index.asp


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I would be surprised if it were cooking oil. To be specific, it is usually olive oil that has been blessed.


{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}
:I agree with Kenj0418. Chances are it was probably olive oil, and if someone can verify that then by all means insert the word "olive". &ndash; [[User:Smyth|Smyth]]\<sup><font color="gray">[[User_talk:Smyth|talk]]</font></sup> 21:50, 24 July 2005 (UTC)


Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 03:45, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
== bad ==


==Musican Category==
you guys cannot cite an op/ed piece as a reference.
It might be just me but the musican categories strike me as out of place. Despite his musical activity he clearly an amateur (I don’t mean that as a knock). The musican categories are really only meant for professional musican or people who meet Notability for their musical activities-not for hobbiest, no matter how famous otherwise. Does anybody have any thoughts? [[User:Grey Wanderer|Grey Wanderer]] ([[User talk:Grey Wanderer|talk]]) 05:41, 6 February 2019 (UTC)


:Personally would not call this guy a musician. Or a "musican." [[User:Sharptictack|Sharptictack]] ([[User talk:Sharptictack|talk]]) 22:37, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
== Ashcroft's Changing Position ==


== Second paragraph ==
This was blogged on kottke.org some time ago. I think this is very much worthy of mention. Anyone want to incorporate this? Before - http://usinfo.state.gov/journals/itgic/1097/ijge/gj-7.htm
and after - http://news.com.com/2010-1071_3-983921.html


"He has written several books about political and ethic." This doesn't make sense. Please fix. [[Special:Contributions/108.226.82.214|108.226.82.214]] ([[User talk:108.226.82.214|talk]]) 04:01, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
==Neutrality==


==Issues with correspondence between stated sources and content==
I have removed a number of POV references in this article. And while it's a great pastime painting Attorneys-General as the Great Satan, be it Reno or Ashcroft, it doesn't make a neutral article and that is the point. [[User:Libertas|Libertas]]
See edit summary just before time stamp of this Talk entry. I checked one of several paragraphs in one section, and found repeated violations of WP:VERIFY. Earlier references to "pancreatitis", Stellar Wind, "semi-conscious"-ness, and phone call to security detail (¶4, earlier and closing sentences) were not found in the appearing end-of-paragraph source. (Oddly, the source was placed after the last sentence, which in particular was also not verifiable at that source!) Likely, this fast-and-loose approach was used elsewhere, so I would recommend a top-down check of sources here. Cheers. [[Special:Contributions/2601:246:C700:19D:B160:B273:E4A3:8B0F|2601:246:C700:19D:B160:B273:E4A3:8B0F]] ([[User talk:2601:246:C700:19D:B160:B273:E4A3:8B0F|talk]]) 05:49, 31 January 2020 (UTC)


== Not notable as Songwriter/Musician ==
== Cooking oil ==


TL/DR - he is not known for being either a songwriter or musician, so why is songwriter in the lead sentence and the page in a musicians category? Removing songwriter from lead sentence, any views on musician category?
I have posted the question of the cooking oil on [[Wikipedia:Requests for Comment|RfC]]. [[User:TacoDeposit|Taco Deposit]] | [[User_talk:TacoDeposit|Talk-o to Taco]] 22:32, July 15, 2005 (UTC)


This guy has written and recorded a few songs but it is not something he is known for at all. His musical activities do not even have their own section in this page, it makes up a couple of lines in his personal life section. While notable enough for inclusion in the article, to mention it in the lead section is clearly [[WP:UNDUE]]. Without his political career, his music work alone would unlikely make him noteable enough for his own page - it is little more than [[Wikipedia:Trivia section|WP:TRIVIA]]. [[User:John wiki|John wiki]]: [[User talk:John wiki|If you have a problem, don't mess with my puppy...]] 17:53, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

:I saw the request for comment, and here is my comment: I have some experience with the practice of anointing folks with oil (in both Christian and non-Christian contexts), and the act and its symbolism is what matters, not what type of oil was used. If it were up to me I would leave it out altogether, as it's not at all relevant. It also came across to me as sort of a subtle dig at him and his religion (that was my first impression). Oh, and for what it's worth, here is my POV: I don't much care for Mr. Ashcroft or Christianity, but I do care about religious symbolism and how it's presented. Hope I wasn't too long-winded here. [[User:KathL|KathL]] 07:21, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

::The Crisco anointing is an undoubted (he himself wrote it in his autobiography) and widely-reported fact which is just a typical example of many things which, taken together, make many people think he's a wacko. As such it is relevant, and, since the article just states the facts, anyone is still free to decide for himself if he's a wacko or not. If you think there's nothing strange with his behaviour, how can you see it as a dig? There are some people who, because they personally like him (or because they're just partisan), want to manipulate others by removing things which they know others will see as wacky. That's not acceptable. If the article is factual and you think it makes him look like a wacko, then that's maybe because he ''is'' a wacko. [[User:NoPuzzleStranger|NoPuzzleStranger]] 08:26, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 01:46, 12 November 2024

Merge proposal: The Ashcroft Group to John Ashcroft

[edit]

The Ashcroft Group has beent agged for notability for 7 years, but could be a valuable section here. Boleyn (talk) 14:11, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and made the redirect since nobody objected. It made sense since that page was a stub and it seems to fit better here. FuriouslySerene (talk) 18:03, 1 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Joseph Massino

[edit]

One of [[John Ashcroft]]'s final acts as Attorney General was to order federal prosecutors to seek the death penalty for Massino.<ref>{{cite news|last=Glaberson|first=William|title=Judge Objects to Ashcroft Bid for a Mobster's Execution|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/13/nyregion/13mob.html?ref=roslynnrmauskopf&pagewanted=print&position=|accessdate=2012-04-21|newspaper=The New York Times|date=2004-11-13}}</ref> The Quixotic Potato (talk) 15:55, 19 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Duplication of "curtain" info

[edit]

The information re the curtain being drawn in front of two statues (Spirit of Justice, a female, and the male Majesty of Justice) occurs in two sections of this entry. It is more fully covered in the section "Political Issues" than in "As U.S. Attorney General." I was planning to eliminate the less detailed version but felt someone might have a reason it should be mentioned twice (?) JeanEva Rose (talk) 21:45, 14 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Well done, thank you. 2601:246:C700:19D:B160:B273:E4A3:8B0F (talk) 05:50, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Musican Category

[edit]

It might be just me but the musican categories strike me as out of place. Despite his musical activity he clearly an amateur (I don’t mean that as a knock). The musican categories are really only meant for professional musican or people who meet Notability for their musical activities-not for hobbiest, no matter how famous otherwise. Does anybody have any thoughts? Grey Wanderer (talk) 05:41, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Personally would not call this guy a musician. Or a "musican." Sharptictack (talk) 22:37, 15 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Second paragraph

[edit]

"He has written several books about political and ethic." This doesn't make sense. Please fix. 108.226.82.214 (talk) 04:01, 14 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Issues with correspondence between stated sources and content

[edit]

See edit summary just before time stamp of this Talk entry. I checked one of several paragraphs in one section, and found repeated violations of WP:VERIFY. Earlier references to "pancreatitis", Stellar Wind, "semi-conscious"-ness, and phone call to security detail (¶4, earlier and closing sentences) were not found in the appearing end-of-paragraph source. (Oddly, the source was placed after the last sentence, which in particular was also not verifiable at that source!) Likely, this fast-and-loose approach was used elsewhere, so I would recommend a top-down check of sources here. Cheers. 2601:246:C700:19D:B160:B273:E4A3:8B0F (talk) 05:49, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not notable as Songwriter/Musician

[edit]

TL/DR - he is not known for being either a songwriter or musician, so why is songwriter in the lead sentence and the page in a musicians category? Removing songwriter from lead sentence, any views on musician category?

This guy has written and recorded a few songs but it is not something he is known for at all. His musical activities do not even have their own section in this page, it makes up a couple of lines in his personal life section. While notable enough for inclusion in the article, to mention it in the lead section is clearly WP:UNDUE. Without his political career, his music work alone would unlikely make him noteable enough for his own page - it is little more than WP:TRIVIA. John wiki: If you have a problem, don't mess with my puppy... 17:53, 20 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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