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Stephen Harrison (October 26, 2023). "Wikipedia Is Covering the War in Israel and Gaza Better Than X". Slate. Retrieved October 31, 2023. For instance, the article about the Supernova Music Festival, where Hamas attacked and killed 260 Israeli civilians, states that the attack was conducted by Hamas "militants" rather than "terrorists," a decision that Wikipedia editors reached based on the site's guidance against contentious labels.

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Reference ideas for Nova music festival massacre

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

Mackintosh, Eliza; Mezzofiore, Gianluca; Polglase, Katie; Goodwin, Allegra; Brown, Benjamin; Rebane, Teele; Oliver, Mark; Pettersson, Henrik; Manley, Byron (October 14, 2023). "How a rave celebrating life turned into a frenzied massacre". CNN. Retrieved October 14, 2023.

On 8 October 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to Supernova music festival massacre. The result of the discussion was not moved.

On 6 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Nova music festival massacre. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Hammas should be called a terrorist group, it's not mentioned

yes it was democratically elected but it's still a terrorist group. 147.235.194.106 (talk) 14:43, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strongly agreed. Steven1991 (talk) 17:54, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"it's still a terrorist group" Says who? Dimadick (talk) 09:14, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. It is a terrorist organization and it was a terrorist attack, not a “sudden attack “ (wtf is that?) 99.196.129.196 (talk) 10:50, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Showing victims’ faces

It is extremely disrespectful to show uncensored video footage of the victims of the massacre. Please censor the video or remove it. 2001:4DF7:0:89F7:2C2B:1BF2:41CA:4885 (talk) 00:12, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I tried to collapse the video, but it didn't work well, so I reverted myself. I was hoping to just collapse the box of the video, but it ended up creating a new box above the text. If somebody else knows how to do that, give it a try. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 17:15, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think WP:NOTCENSORED/WP:DISCL applies here. - Ïvana (talk) 21:34, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that other Wikipedias have a template for hiding images (I don't know if it also works for hiding videos), but the English Wikipedia does not have such a template. To be honest, I'm not sure there is much value for such a template (in other words, I wouldn't waste my time to try to develop such a template). The Mountain of Eden (talk) 21:45, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Revert

@Ïvana, could you please explain your revert? Where are the NPOV issues? Thanks. HaOfa (talk) 08:19, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A mass lead rewrite needs consensus even without taking into account the addition of WP:LOADED terms intended to push a particular POV. What exactly is wrong with the current lead? It already succinctly describes the content of the body using RS, and it has been a stable version for months. - Ïvana (talk) 21:32, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you need to elaborate on what exactly do you find to be "WP:LOADED" and what exactly do you find to be a POV push? The Mountain of Eden (talk) 21:40, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If your concern is about the rape allegations not being addressed (which can be fixed with a single line instead of rewriting a big chunk of the lead) I don't think the sentence In addition to the massacre, many more were injured, and atrocities including the rape of women were committed. is neutral at all or following WP:NPOV. It is also not a good reflection of the body of the article which says that the IDF has not verified those claims. Both things need to be mentioned. - Ïvana (talk) 21:58, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the article says that the IDF has not verified the claims, but it doesn't say that the IDF disputed the claims. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 22:04, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also unclear on what your specific concerns are. The lede you restored isn't neutral since it has no mention of sexual assaults. — xDanielx ^T/_C\^R 21:43, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The lede I restored has been the stable version for months, I didn't unilaterally chose it. - Ïvana (talk) 21:58, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That in itself is absolutely not an excuse to revert. The Mountain of Eden (talk) 22:00, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is when you're trying to unnecessarily rewrite most of it using loaded words. Again, if your main concern is that the alleged rapes are not being mentioned, a single line would suffice. For example: Hamas also took 40 people hostage, and men and women were reportedly subject to sexual and gender-based violence. Linking to the main article that goes into detail about this seems like the best choice. - Ïvana (talk) 22:49, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with @Ïvana that a major revision of the lede in a way that does appear to be pushing a POV is unwarranted. If an addition is to be made to include mention of rape, as it is also on the page, that should be fine, but not a major rewrite of the lede that's been the consensus for a long time. That requires consensus to be obtained for it first, and no reason has been provided for the other additions and changes.

I went ahead and added the suggested text by Ïvana to the lede, I don't believe that's controversial.

Raskolnikov.Rev (talk) 08:46, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. Not a militant group. Get facts straight before you provide that on Wikipedia. 50.113.64.203 (talk) 05:10, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done Wikipedia uses an impartial tone to describe things as they are reported in reliable sources. "Militant group" is an accepted term, while "terrorist organization" is more contentious and should be avoided. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 06:38, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
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-{{WikiProject banner shell|blpo=yes|class=C|collapsed=yes|1=
+{{WikiProject banner shell|blp=other|class=C|collapsed=yes|1=
 {{WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography|terrorism=yes|terrorism-imp=Mid|importance=Low|serialkiller=yes|serialkiller-imp=Low}}
 {{WikiProject Death|importance=Low}}
 {{WikiProject Disaster management|importance=Low}}
-{{WikiProject Islam|Islam-and-Controversy=y|importance=Low}}
+{{WikiProject Islam|Islam-and-Controversy=yes|importance=Low}}
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@@ Line 33: / Line 33: @@
 |minthreadsleft      = 4
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-|algo                = old(2d)
+|algo                = old(30d)
-|archive             = Talk:Re'im music festival massacre/Archive %(counter)d
+|archive             = Talk:Nova music festival massacre/Archive %(counter)d
 }}
-{{old move|date=8 October 2023|destination=Supernova music festival massacre|result=not  moved|link=Special:Permalink/1180354705#Requested move 8 October 2023}}
+{{Old moves|date=8 October 2023|destination=Supernova music festival massacre|result=not  moved|link=Special:Permalink/1180354705#Requested move 8 October 2023}}
-{{old move|date=6 January 2024|destination=Nova music festival massacre|result=not moved|link=Special:Permalink/1195220115#Requested move 6 January 2024}}
+{{Old moves|date=6 January 2024|destination=Nova music festival massacre|result=not moved|link=Special:Permalink/1195220115#Requested move 6 January 2024}}
-== "Civilians", "murder" and "hostages" ==
-Since some of my edits were undone I think it's prudent to talk about the POV, editorialized and inaccurate language used in this article at present. Right in the lead we have the following:
-:As part of the attack, 364 civilians were murdered and many more wounded
-None of the cited news articles call these 364 dead "civilians". Only some individual cases are called civilians. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67054825 The BBC states] that of the killed, 9 were US citizens, 1 a Canadian citizen, up to 10 UK citizens, 2 French citizens, 20 Thai citizens, 10 Nepalese citizens, 2 Filipino citizens, 1 German citizen, 1 Cambodian citizen, 1 Chinese-Israeli (let's count her as Chinese for this purpose). In total 57. I have excluded the mere missing cases. Therefore around 300 of those killed were Israelis. Do any sources say whether these people were members of the IDF or not? Due to the high conscription rate in Israel, of which only ultra-Orthodox and Arab Israelis are exempt, it would be false to label all 300 of these dead Israels "civilians" when, as members of the IDF, they were not civilians.
-The second point here is on the use of the word "murder". Murder is a civilian crime, not a military one. Al-Qassam is Hamas' military wing, and Hamas is at present the only legitimate government of Gaza, having won [[2006 Palestinian legislative election|the 2006 election]]. And again, a significant number of those killed were not civilians, but members of the IDF. Such killings are not murder. More importantly, we need RS that calls these killings "murders", not US-aligned editorialized newspaper articles.
-Finally the word "hostages". Again, when it comes to military personnel, the correct term is ''prisoners of war''. [[User:KetchupSalt|KetchupSalt]] ([[User talk:KetchupSalt|talk]]) 09:26, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
-:Good point about the 364 casualties. Obviously, police officers are not civilians.<br>
-:As for the use of the word hostages, you'd be correct if any of the kidnapped invidviduals from the music festival were military personnel. But since none were, the word "hostages" is the correct word. [[User:The Mountain of Eden|The Mountain of Eden]] ([[User talk:The Mountain of Eden|talk]]) 22:26, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
-:You're just showing how much you don't understand, just by the sheer words used in your comment.
-:Serving in the IDF is indeed mandatory, however only for 2.8 years (males) or 2 years (females). Once someone finishes his/her mandatory service he goes back to being a civilian, just like you wouldn't call an 80 years old retired cop a police personnel. The overwhelming majority of nova goers were not serving in the IDF nor the Israeli police at the time, therefore they were unarmed civilians. I again urge you to understand the difference between a civilian and a military personnel before commenting unbiased claims. And the word hostages fits perfectly, just like the people on the planes in the 9.11 attacks. [[Special:Contributions/2A00:A040:1A3:A23D:6992:DF7A:36:7C3A|2A00:A040:1A3:A23D:6992:DF7A:36:7C3A]] ([[User talk:2A00:A040:1A3:A23D:6992:DF7A:36:7C3A|talk]]) 00:42, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
-:Military law only applies when they are in active service engaged in combat. They are civilians when they are off-uniform. I don’t see your point and it doesn’t come off as being made in good faith. [[User:Steven1991|Steven1991]] ([[User talk:Steven1991|talk]]) 17:51, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
-== POV & unsourced language removed ==
-Of the sources provided, none of them mentioned rape or torture, so I have removed those words. I have also removed the "by Hamas" phrase, when it's contradicted by the parts of this article detailing how friendly fire could have resulted in some deaths. I have also removed "murder" as a POV word, however, it is used in some of the sources listed, and for that reason, I'm okay with restoring it. [[User:JasonMacker|JasonMacker]] ([[User talk:JasonMacker|talk]]) 19:53, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
 == Hammas should be called a terrorist group, it's not mentioned ==
@@ Line 84: / Line 62: @@
 ::I think you need to elaborate on what exactly do you find to be "[[WP:LOADED]]" and what exactly do you find to be a POV push? [[User:The Mountain of Eden|The Mountain of Eden]] ([[User talk:The Mountain of Eden|talk]]) 21:40, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
 :::If your concern is about the rape allegations not being addressed (which can be fixed with a single line instead of rewriting a big chunk of the lead) I don't think the sentence {{tq|In addition to the massacre, many more were injured, and atrocities including the rape of women were committed.}} is neutral at all or following [[WP:NPOV]]. It is also not a good reflection of the body of the article which says that the IDF has not verified those claims. Both things need to be mentioned. - [[User:Ïvana|Ïvana]] ([[User talk:Ïvana|talk]]) 21:58, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
+::::Yes, the article says that the IDF has not verified the claims, but it doesn't say that the IDF disputed the claims. [[User:The Mountain of Eden|The Mountain of Eden]] ([[User talk:The Mountain of Eden|talk]]) 22:04, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
 ::I'm also unclear on what your specific concerns are. The lede you restored isn't neutral since it has no mention of sexual assaults. — [[User:XDanielx|<span style="font-family: Arial; font-weight: bold; color: green;">xDanielx</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:XDanielx|T]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/XDanielx|C]]</sub>\<sup>[[Wikipedia:Editor review/xDanielx|R]]</sup> 21:43, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
+:::The lede I restored has been the stable version for months, I didn't unilaterally chose it. - [[User:Ïvana|Ïvana]] ([[User talk:Ïvana|talk]]) 21:58, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
+::::That in itself is absolutely not an excuse to revert. [[User:The Mountain of Eden|The Mountain of Eden]] ([[User talk:The Mountain of Eden|talk]]) 22:00, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
+:::::It is when you're trying to unnecessarily rewrite most of it using loaded words. Again, if your main concern is that the alleged rapes are not being mentioned, a single line would suffice. For example: {{tq|Hamas also took 40 people hostage, and men and women were reportedly subject to [[Sexual and gender-based violence in the 7 October Hamas-led attack on Israel|sexual and gender-based violence]]}}. Linking to the main article that goes into detail about this seems like the best choice. - [[User:Ïvana|Ïvana]] ([[User talk:Ïvana|talk]]) 22:49, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
+::::::Agree with @[[User:Ïvana|Ïvana]] that a major revision of the lede in a way that does appear to be pushing a POV is unwarranted. If an addition is to be made to include mention of rape, as it is also on the page, that should be fine, but not a major rewrite of the lede that's been the consensus for a long time. That requires consensus to be obtained for it first, and no reason has been provided for the other additions and changes.
+::::::
+::::::I went ahead and added the suggested text by [[User:Ïvana|Ïvana]] to the lede, I don't believe that's controversial.
+::::::[[User:Raskolnikov.Rev|Raskolnikov.Rev]] ([[User talk:Raskolnikov.Rev|talk]]) 08:46, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
+== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2024 ==
+{{edit extended-protected|Nova music festival massacre|answered=yes}}
+Hamas is a terrorist organization. Not a militant group. Get facts straight before you provide that on Wikipedia. [[Special:Contributions/50.113.64.203|50.113.64.203]] ([[User talk:50.113.64.203|talk]]) 05:10, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
+:{{not done}} Wikipedia uses an [[WP:IMPARTIAL|impartial tone]] to describe things as they are reported in [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. "Militant group" is an accepted term, while "terrorist organization" is more contentious and should be avoided. [[User:Thebiguglyalien|<span style="color:#324717">The</span><span style="color:#45631f">big</span><span style="color:#547826">ugly</span><span style="color:#68942f">alien</span>]] ([[User talk:Thebiguglyalien|<span style="color:sienna">talk</span>]]) 06:38, 24 October 2024 (UTC)