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==Alexander Rae Baldwin==
== "discharged a revolver ==
Where is a reliable source for:
*{{cite web |title=Alexander Rae Baldwin Sr. (1897-1969) |url=https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Baldwin-5364 |website=wikitree.com |language=en |date=25 March 1897}}
*{{cite web |title=Alexander Rae Baldwin Jr. (1927-1983) |url=https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Baldwin-5365 |website=wikitree.com |access-date=15 June 2023 |language=en |date=26 October 1927}}
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:.... [[User:0mtwb9gd5wx|0mtwb9gd5wx]] ([[User talk:0mtwb9gd5wx|talk]]) 00:57, 16 June 2023 (UTC)


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== Shooting incident in lead ==
shouldn't this just read "shot a gun"? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2A02:A442:581E:1:DDA4:26DD:4CC2:1219|2A02:A442:581E:1:DDA4:26DD:4CC2:1219]] ([[User talk:2A02:A442:581E:1:DDA4:26DD:4CC2:1219#top|talk]]) 09:19, 18 May 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
Should the shooting incident be still considered in lead? Especially now charges have dropped, I don't see the need for keeping it in the lead section especially as time progresses. The incident was in 2021.[[User:The One I Left|The One I Left]] ([[User talk:The One I Left|talk]]) 20:03, 15 September 2023 (UTC)


== Shooting incident in Personal Life ==
:I've noticed a lot of reputable media covering the ongoing trial have used the term '[https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/baldwin-rust-shooting-charges-decision/index.html fired]<nowiki>' in reference to the gun. The district attorned adjacently used the phrase 'fire a projectile', as documented by CNN in the link provided. ~~~~ </nowiki> [[User:DovC123|DovC123]] ([[User talk:DovC123|talk]]) 18:50, 19 January 2023 (UTC)


Shouldn't the subsection on the shooting incident be under his Career section, as it's directly involved with his career? [[User:Sink Cat|Sink Cat]] ([[User talk:Sink Cat|talk]]) 05:42, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
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== Awards in lead ==


== The charged will be reinstated (in November) ==
In light of recent edits to omit awards of Baldwin in lead, I'm just going to pick 3 actors off the top of my head without checking their article leads: [[James Earl Jones]], [[Tina Fey]] and [[Joel Gray]]. Completely different actors in their field. I'm betting these articles list awards received as content for their lead sections: listing awards. That's what makes a personal notable for inclusion at WP. This is standard content for actor leads. The awards for Baldwin should remain in lead section. As well, it is never stated in the article or any source that Baldwin gained fame for his appearance on [[Knots Landing]]. [[User:Maineartists|Maineartists]] ([[User talk:Maineartists|talk]]) 22:15, 15 June 2022 (UTC)


The investigation determined Baldwin actively pulled the trigger (and then lied that he didn't). https://www.reuters.com/world/us/prosecutors-aim-recharge-alec-baldwin-with-involuntary-manslaughter-nbc-news-2023-10-17/ [[Special:Contributions/5.173.90.39|5.173.90.39]] ([[User talk:5.173.90.39|talk]]) 13:50, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
== Alec Baldwin comedian and political activist (removal) ==
== "[[:Alec "Smartalec" Baldwin]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Alec_%22Smartalec%22_Baldwin&redirect=no Alec "Smartalec" Baldwin]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 12#Alec "Smartalec" Baldwin}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Elli|Elli]] ([[User_talk:Elli|talk]] &#124; [[Special:Contributions/Elli|contribs]]) 02:07, 12 April 2024 (UTC)


== Replace casting change under Career section ==
<!-- [[User:DoNotArchiveUntil]] 15:01, 29 October 2022 (UTC) -->{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|1667055683}}
Based on the introductory and the fact that the lead should identify the topic and summarize the body of the article with appropriate weight, do you '''support''', '''oppose''', or '''oppose partially''' the removal of political activist and/or comedian from the lede and occupation infobox of this article?


Under "2014-Present" subsection of the "Career" section, it's stated that Baldwin starred opposite Jamie Dornan, however Dornan was swapped with Joshua Jackson at some point during development. [https://ew.com/tv/joshua-jackson-dr-death-jamie-dornan/]https://ew.com/tv/joshua-jackson-dr-death-jamie-dornan/ [[Special:Contributions/97.70.163.72|97.70.163.72]] ([[User talk:97.70.163.72|talk]]) 04:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
As I've concluded after previous discussions pertaining to what makes a subject a notable comedian, many editors agree that:
* Appearing in comedy films and being a comedian is not the same thing
* The usual criteria for being a comedian includes at minimum a period of having done stand-up, or as a stretch, regularly appearing cast members of any sketch comedy show.

He simply isn't notable for being a political activist, I don't think any further argument needs to be made regarding this.

Vote below and specify if required. [[User:ChicagoWikiEditor|ChicagoWikiEditor]] ([[User talk:ChicagoWikiEditor|talk]]) 14:26, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

*:'''Support''' - for reasons above [[User:ChicagoWikiEditor|ChicagoWikiEditor]] ([[User talk:ChicagoWikiEditor|talk]]) 14:27, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

*:'''Partially Oppose'''. Political activist should be removed, but comedian should remain.
:::''[[User:Orson12345|<span style="background:turquoise; color:#FFF; padding:2px;">Orson12345</span>]] ([[User talk:Orson12345|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Orson12345|Contribs]])'' 17:20, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
*:<s>'''My vote''' does not include the term ''support'' or ''oppose'' because I don't know what they mean in this Rfc.</s> <u>'''Partially oppose (keep ''comedian'')'''</u> The word ''comedian'' should be kept in the lead and the infobox, and the word ''political activist'' should not be there. An [https://www.google.com/search?q=%22alec+baldwin%22+occupation unbiased search] shows the word ''comedian'' showing up repeatedly, but not the term ''political activist'', so it's clear that [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] commonly describe his occupation as including ''comedian''. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 17:37, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
*::@[[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] I goofed up the wording and only just realized it, but support would be removing both comedian and political activist, oppose would mean leaving them both in, and partially oppose would suggest keeping one of the two (specify). [[User:ChicagoWikiEditor|ChicagoWikiEditor]] ([[User talk:ChicagoWikiEditor|talk]]) 18:22, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
*::: Understood, thanks. I have adjusted my !vote above accordingly. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 19:00, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

:* '''Partially Oppose.''' Political activist should be removed. If [[Vince Vaughn]], [[John C. Reilly]] and [[Woody Allen]] are comedians then comedian should remain for Alec Baldwin. [[User:Nemov|Nemov]] ([[User talk:Nemov|talk]]) 21:22, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
:*:@[[User:Nemov|Nemov]] Woody Allen has done stand-up. Vince Vaughn and John C. Reilly shouldn't be labeled comedians either on lack of RS alone. Wikipedia is a collaborative effort. [[User:ChicagoWikiEditor|ChicagoWikiEditor]] ([[User talk:ChicagoWikiEditor|talk]]) 15:58, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

*'''Support''' – Political activist should not be in the lead, since there is little weight in the article for this label and by assumption in reliable sources. This is according to the [[MOS:LEADREL]] guideline which states that
::"{{tq|according to the policy on due weight, emphasis given to material should reflect its relative importance to the subject, according to published reliable sources.}}"
:Comedian is a bit more complicated of a decision. Like ChicagoWikiEditor, I feel that a comedian is someone who does stand-up comedy work or does mostly comedy films and shows. Alec Baldwin is more of a diverse entertainer. He should not be [[pigeonholed]] with the comedian label in the lead sentence, but rather the nuance of his work should be explained as is done in the second sentence:
::"{{tq|The oldest of the Baldwin brothers, he is known for his versatile performances, from comic work on television to dramatic roles in film."}}
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:--[[User:Guest2625|Guest2625]] ([[User talk:Guest2625|talk]]) 02:25, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
::Perhaps for rhythm and balance of the two lead sentences. A second label word could be "entertainer". Then the lead would begin as:
:::{{tq|Alexander Rae Baldwin III (born April 3, 1958) is an American actor and entertainer.[1][2][3] The oldest of the Baldwin brothers, he is known for his versatile performances, from comic work on television to dramatic roles in film.}}
::In this case "entertainer" would represent comic work and actor would represent dramatic work. --[[User:Guest2625|Guest2625]] ([[User talk:Guest2625|talk]]) 03:01, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
:::I think this is a concise and accurate solution. [[User:Sergeant Curious|Sergeant Curious]] ([[User talk:Sergeant Curious|talk]]) 14:00, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
:::An improvement over comedian to be sure {{ping|Mathglot}} {{ping|Orson12345}} thoughts on this take? [[User:ChicagoWikiEditor|ChicagoWikiEditor]] ([[User talk:ChicagoWikiEditor|talk]]) 15:47, 26 September 2022 (UTC)
:::::I agree, entertainer would be more appropriate.
::::''[[User:Orson12345|<span style="background:turquoise; color:#FFF; padding:2px;">Orson12345</span>]] ([[User talk:Orson12345|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Orson12345|Contribs]])'' 19:58, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

*'''Mild support for removal''' (invited by the bot) He really doesn't fall within the common meaning of "comedian" or "political activist", but he's sort of an edge case on both of those. Since he is very and very visibly political there should be some summary of that aspect in the lead. Which would do a better job that attempting a 2 word nounification of his as a "political activist" Sincerely, <b style="color: #0000cc;">''North8000''</b> ([[User talk:North8000#top|talk]]) 18:19, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

*'''Support removal''' - per [[WP:LEAD]]. He is famous for being an actor, and the bulk of the article on his work is that. His other works as producer, comic, and activist is of too little [[WP:WEIGHT]] for the lead. Much of his acting is in comedies, but that’s not the same thing. Cheers [[User:Markbassett|Markbassett]] ([[User talk:Markbassett|talk]]) 15:10, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
*'''Support "actor and entertainer"'''. He does enough non-acting and hosting that it makes sense to include that. --[[User:Cerebral726|Cerebral726]] ([[User talk:Cerebral726|talk]]) 17:12, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
*'''Support removal''' - {{tq|per [[WP:LEAD]]. He is famous for being an actor, and the bulk of the article on his work is that … Much of his acting is in comedies, but that’s not the same thing}} per Markbassett. I think "entertainer" is vague to the point of being at best valueless and is potentially misleading. This description is more commonly used of a [[Sammy Davis Jr]] / [[Bruce Forsyth]] type figure, who sings a bit, tells jokes occasionally and dances a bit and who is known as an all-rounder. Baldwin seems to be partly known for his comedic 'skits' and parodies which are forms of comic roles. [[User:Pincrete|Pincrete]] ([[User talk:Pincrete|talk]]) 14:03, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

=== Discussion ===

{{ec}} [[User:ChicagoWikiEditor]], can you clarify your Rfc question, and/or what ''support'' and ''oppose'' mean? You voted ''oppose'', and your Rfc question was about "removal". So you have voted to "oppose removal", i.e, "to keep it in the lead". But you claimed earlier that he "isn't notable for being a political activist". So, which is it? Do you want the lead to say he is a political activist, or not? If no one has voted by the time you see this, I suggest you recast the Rfc question as a positive, instead of a negative, as if I understand correctly, it sounds like the current wording may have tripped you up, and may trip up others as well. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 17:24, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
: Too late; I got an edit conflict because someone else already responded. Not sure what happens now, but I don't see how a closer will be able to evaluate this given its current status. If I were you, I'd withdraw the Rfc (see [[WP:RFCEND]]) and start another one right after this one. But it's up to you. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 17:27, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
::@[[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] I did a brain fart, updated. [[User:ChicagoWikiEditor|ChicagoWikiEditor]] ([[User talk:ChicagoWikiEditor|talk]]) 18:12, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
:::: Hello, I’ve changed my vote to “partially opposed”, now that [[User:ChicagoWikiEditor|ChicagoWikiEditor]] has clarified the voting options. Thanks.
:::''[[User:Orson12345|<span style="background:turquoise; color:#FFF; padding:2px;">Orson12345</span>]] ([[User talk:Orson12345|Talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Orson12345|Contribs]])'' 18:43, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
:: {{anchor|18:30, 24 Sep}}{{ec}} I still don't understand. Let me reword how I understand your ''oppose'' vote: you want "political activist" to be kept in the article, right? Because you ''oppose'' it's removal? Am I reading you right?
:: Oh, wait: now I see that in [[Special:Diff/1112109309|this edit]] you changed your [[WP:!vote|vote]] from ''oppose'' to ''support''. So I guess it needs more clarity because it tripped you up, so why wouldn't it trip up someone else as well? Let's hope no one else gets confused in the same way, but I pity the closer. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 18:30, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
::: Post-ec: yes, that's what I thought from the beginning. Your vote is clear, now; let's hope the question and responses are clear to everyone. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 18:30, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
::: <small>Housekeeping note regarding conversational integrity: my [[#18:30, 24 Sep|comment above]] of 18:30, 24 Sep, which may now appear cryptic, was in reply to [[Special:Diff/1112107948|this comment]], later [[Special:Diff/1112110127|removed]] without [[WP:REDACT|redaction]]. Thanks, [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 18:42, 24 September 2022 (UTC)</small>
::: Note to closer: there is one unredacted !vote alteration in the voting section, but as of the timestamp following this comment, no loss of conversational intergrity, so you should be good to go now. [[User:Mathglot|Mathglot]] ([[User talk:Mathglot|talk]]) 19:16, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
:Bad RfC. The question should have been posed neutrally with the nominators view separate. [[User:Emir of Wikipedia|Emir of Wikipedia]] ([[User talk:Emir of Wikipedia|talk]]) 12:37, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
::You are correct. This is one of the most poorly implemented and confusing RfCs I've ever seen, unless its purpose was to confuse participants. In any case, I've [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Alec_Baldwin&diff=1116459809&oldid=1114427583 restored] "comedian" to the infobox as Baldwin is not only a comedian, but a highly accomplished one, particularly through his TV work, which has earned him over a dozen major awards (Emmy, Golden Globe, SAG) for his comedy work. As I said in my edit summary, see [[List of comedians]]. If anyone is crazy enough to think that Baldwin should be removed from that list, then they'll also have to remove many, many of the others. And a riot will ensue if that happens. Also, see [[Comedian]] of course. The editor who removed it from the infobox said he did it because "He has never done stand up therefore he is not a comedian", which is the huge, classic misunderstanding of the term comedian. One does ''not'' need to be a stand-up, or have ever done stand-up, to be notable as a comedian. Baldwin is obviously a highly notable comedian. [[User:Stoarm|Stoarm]] ([[User talk:Stoarm|talk]]) 18:12, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
:Your entire rationale is that he is a comedian because you say he is and because another part of Wikipedia says he is, neither of which are sufficient justification for the label here. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1012:B067:46F:6DBA:4741:DFDB:6845|2600:1012:B067:46F:6DBA:4741:DFDB:6845]] ([[User talk:2600:1012:B067:46F:6DBA:4741:DFDB:6845|talk]]) 16:45, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

== Children ==

Ilaria Catalina Irena was born 9/23/2022, his 8th child including Ireland. [[User:OneNitpicker|OneNitpicker]] ([[User talk:OneNitpicker|talk]]) 22:11, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

== NM DA ==

New Mexico First Judicial District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies [[User:Mprieto07|Mprieto07]] ([[User talk:Mprieto07|talk]]) 18:44, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

== (RfC) Should Alec Baldwin be described as a comedian in the first sentence? ==

I am opening an RfC on this issue because (per my assessment) there is little to no sourcing that justifies calling him a comedian in the lede of this article. Some commenters have noted that while he has played "comic roles", he has not done standup comedy; others have claimed that those roles (30 Rock, SNL Trump) suffice. Please share your views on this topic below. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1012:B067:46F:6DBA:4741:DFDB:6845|2600:1012:B067:46F:6DBA:4741:DFDB:6845]] ([[User talk:2600:1012:B067:46F:6DBA:4741:DFDB:6845|talk]]) 17:01, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
:Please don't go straight for a full-blown thirty-day formal RfC without discussing first and [[WP:RFCBEFORE|exhausting other options]]. Also, did you not see the big red error message? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] &#x1f339; ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:58, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
:Baldwin most definitely qualifies as a comedian. He has earned over a dozen major awards for his comedy work. Many editors have a huge misunderstanding of what constitutes being a comedian, falsely believing it only applies to those who perform stand-up. The fact is that most comedians are ''not'' stand-ups, which is merely a type or subset of the genre of comedy. See [[comedian]] and [[List of comedians]]. [[User:Stoarm|Stoarm]] ([[User talk:Stoarm|talk]]) 23:35, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
:@2600:1012:B067:46F:6DBA:4741:DFDB:6845: Have you ever edited this article or participated on this talk page under a different IP address or as a registered user? [[User:Stoarm|Stoarm]] ([[User talk:Stoarm|talk]]) 02:09, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 07:04, 16 November 2024

Alexander Rae Baldwin

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Where is a reliable source for:

  • "Alexander Rae Baldwin Sr. (1897-1969)". wikitree.com. 25 March 1897.
  • "Alexander Rae Baldwin Jr. (1927-1983)". wikitree.com. 26 October 1927. Retrieved 15 June 2023.
.... 0mtwb9gd5wx (talk) 00:57, 16 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Shooting incident in lead

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Should the shooting incident be still considered in lead? Especially now charges have dropped, I don't see the need for keeping it in the lead section especially as time progresses. The incident was in 2021.The One I Left (talk) 20:03, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Shooting incident in Personal Life

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Shouldn't the subsection on the shooting incident be under his Career section, as it's directly involved with his career? Sink Cat (talk) 05:42, 5 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The charged will be reinstated (in November)

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The investigation determined Baldwin actively pulled the trigger (and then lied that he didn't). https://www.reuters.com/world/us/prosecutors-aim-recharge-alec-baldwin-with-involuntary-manslaughter-nbc-news-2023-10-17/ 5.173.90.39 (talk) 13:50, 25 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Alec "Smartalec" Baldwin" listed at Redirects for discussion

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The redirect Alec "Smartalec" Baldwin has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 12 § Alec "Smartalec" Baldwin until a consensus is reached. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:07, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Replace casting change under Career section

[edit]

Under "2014-Present" subsection of the "Career" section, it's stated that Baldwin starred opposite Jamie Dornan, however Dornan was swapped with Joshua Jackson at some point during development. [1]https://ew.com/tv/joshua-jackson-dr-death-jamie-dornan/ 97.70.163.72 (talk) 04:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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