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{{ArticleHistory
{{WikiProject Biography
|action1 = GAN
|living=yes
|action1date = 12:44, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
|class=C
|action1link = Talk:Neutral Milk Hotel/GA1
|musician-priority=Mid
|action1result = listed
|musician-work-group=yes
|action1oldid = 996411974
|action2 = FAC
|action2date = 2022-04-18
|action2link = Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Neutral Milk Hotel/archive1
|action2result = promoted
|action2oldid = 1083422594
|topic = Music
|currentstatus = FA

}}
}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|blp=yes|class=FA|listas=Neutral Milk Hotel|1=
{{WikiProject Alternative music|class=C|importance=Mid}}Where is the info about the re-release of On Avery Island with live tracks from? Also, it's past Jan. 2006... --[[User:Apfelbitsliam|liam]] 22:16, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
{{WikiProject Biography|musician-priority=Mid|musician-work-group=yes}}

{{WikiProject Alternative music|importance=Mid}}

{{WikiProject United States|importance=Mid|USmusic=yes|USmusic-importance=Mid|LA=yes|LA-importance=Mid}}
==Untitled==
}}
Two comments:
{{User:MiszaBot/config

| algo = old(555d)
It appears some earlier version of this article was a copyvio from [http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:gsj20r2at48c~T1 here]. Could someone rewrite the offending bits? I'm not sure if it's similar enough to qualify as a copyvio at the moment, since much of it is different.
| archive = Talk:Neutral Milk Hotel/Archive %(counter)d

| counter = 1
No other band has so many generic categories (neo-prog, neo-psychedelia), and I would like to replace it with one or two broad categories. How about [[:Category:Indie rock groups]]?
| maxarchivesize = 150K

| archiveheader = {{Aan}}
[[User:TUF-KAT|Tuf-Kat]] 19:29, Aug 18, 2004 (UTC)
| minthreadstoarchive = 1

| minthreadsleft = 2
Response:
}}

{{archives}}
Since most of the offending changes are my fault, I'll rewite them as soon as I get the opportunity; I've meant to fix them anyway as they are too close for comfort in some places.

As for the categories... IMHO the term "indie rock" is so broad as to be almost useless for anybody seeking clarification on the subject: it may as well be "Post-WWII Contemporary". Four categories, however, <u>is</u> alot. That could easily be trimmed.

[[User:ClockworkTroll|Clockwork Troll]] 14:09, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The page is more or less entirely copied from the allmusic.com entry ([http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:gsj20r2at48c~T1 here]). Some things get moved around, but a lot of descriptions and details about the history of the band are copied exactly.

I'll delete the text besides the lists and some of the third and fourth paragraph because the part about "In the Aeroplane Over the Sea" isn't from anywhere else.

[[User:Andrew123|Andrew123]] 02:12, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)
==Chris Knox cover==
I just added in a part about Mangum's cover of Tall Dwarfs' Sign the Dotted Line. Definatly could use some more info/editing, but at least it's in there. [[Special:Contributions/75.6.233.144|75.6.233.144]] ([[User talk:75.6.233.144|talk]]) 07:57, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

==Repetition==
There is mention of Jeff's last gig in Auckland in both the "In the Aeroplane Over the Sea and final show" and in the "Hiatus" section, much of it being repeated. Could someone more experienced deal with that? [[User:Hazzjm|Hazzjm]] 17:54, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

==Singular/Plural==
Think of it this way: in this context, "Neutral Milk Hotel" is a pronoun that may the place of "Jeremy Barnes, Scott Spillane, Julian Koster and Robert Schneider". Now, you would never, ever say "Jeremy Barnes, Scott Spillane, Julian Koster and Robert Schneider ''is'' an American indie rock band" would you? Also, referring to [[American_and_British_English_differences#Singular_and_plural_for_nouns]] shows that the plural form is correct in both British and American English - surely it is preferable to be consistent to a greater number of readers? [[User:Turkeyphant|'''''<span style="color:#0808C8">Tu</span><span style="color:#0606BE">rk</span><span style="color: #040488">ey</span><span style="color:#020264">ph</span><span style="color:#000064">an</span>''''']][[User talk:Turkeyphant|<sup><big>t</big></sup>]] 13:17, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:It would be great if logic determined linguistic practice, but it doesn't. I don't know how you get from the American_and_British_English_differences that "NMH are" is correct American English usage. It is 100 percent nonidiomatic and very jarring to American ears, trust me. --[[User:Jfruh|Jfruh]] ([[User talk:Jfruh|talk]]) 13:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

::From the article "British English: ''The Clash are a well-known band.'' American English: ''The Clash is a well-known band.'' '''Both: ''The Beatles are a well-known band.'''''" It may be jarring to you but using the singular is both jarring to me and incorrect. Plural forms are always used when the group is considered as a collection of people doing personal things such as a band. [[User:Turkeyphant|'''''<span style="color:#0808C8">Tu</span><span style="color:#0606BE">rk</span><span style="color: #040488">ey</span><span style="color:#020264">ph</span><span style="color:#000064">an</span>''''']][[User talk:Turkeyphant|<sup><big>t</big></sup>]] 13:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
:::This is becoming a bit of an annoying conversation, IMO, but "The Beatles are" takes the plural in BritEng because they're a group, but takes the plural in AmEng due to the name of the band being plural. The Beatles ''are'', The Clash ''is'', The Strokes ''are'', R.E.M. ''is''. --[[User:Badlydrawnjeff|badlydrawnjeff]] <small>[[User_talk:Badlydrawnjeff|talk]]</small> 13:59, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

:::What jeff said. You're profoundly missing the point of the example you cite. In American English the ''form'' of the noun determines that form that verb agreement will take, in British English the ''meaning'' of the noun is the determiner. The word "Beatles" is both plural in form (i.e. one Beatle, two Beatles) and meaning (there are four of them), so it takes a plural verb on both sides of the pond. Nouns that are singular in form ''always take singular verbs in American English,'' even if they represent more than one person or thing. Wikipedia practice in a case like this is to follow the nationality of the entity in question, and NMH is an American band, so... --[[User:Jfruh|Jfruh]] ([[User talk:Jfruh|talk]]) 14:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
::::Sorry, I did not read the example carefully enough. However, I take issue with your claim that "Nouns that are singular in form ''always take singular verbs in American English''". Both plural and singular verbs are correct in American English and it is better to use plural as this is understandible by all English speakers. [[User:Turkeyphant|'''''<span style="color:#0808C8">Tu</span><span style="color:#0606BE">rk</span><span style="color: #040488">ey</span><span style="color:#020264">ph</span><span style="color:#000064">an</span>''''']][[User talk:Turkeyphant|<sup><big>t</big></sup>]] 14:50, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia. Please don't be obtuse, by which I mean, not listening to your fellow editors and persisting in believing that you're right and that it's necessary to be "right". NMH is an American topic, and as such should be written in American idiomatic English. We really will not solve the differences in British and American usage here on this Talk page, and if you truly think that your contribution to Wikipedia is making sure that the English that sounds right '''to you''' is the one used on all pages, well, good luck. I think your interest would be better placed elsewhere. The only way that "were" would sound correct to Americans would be if their name had been "The Neutral Milk Hotels". Maybe that sounds wrong to you, but surprise! -- your way sounds wrong to us. --[[User:Dhartung|Dhartung]] | [[User talk:Dhartung|Talk]] 16:18, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
::::::It appears that you are the only one failing to listen to fellow editors. I apologised for my mistake and clarified my objections. It doesn't matter if it sounds wrong - lots of idiomatic expressions sound right but are simply incorrect and do not belong in an encyclopaedia. I will reiterate: ''Plural forms are always used when the group is considered as a collection of people doing personal things such as a band. The plural form is correct in both British and American English - surely it is preferable to be consistent to a greater number of readers?'' [[User:Turkeyphant|'''''<span style="color:#0808C8">Tu</span><span style="color:#0606BE">rk</span><span style="color: #040488">ey</span><span style="color:#020264">ph</span><span style="color:#000064">an</span>''''']][[User talk:Turkeyphant|<sup><big>t</big></sup>]] 03:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::::No, we shouldn't, because it is wrong. Your claim is incorrect. --[[User:Dhartung|Dhartung]] | [[User talk:Dhartung|Talk]] 05:17, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Unfortunately my claim is backed up by verifiable sources, academics of language and cold facts. When talking about bands the plural form is correct and should be preferred in all cases. This is abundantly clear as Neutral Milk Hotel is an abstract entity - it can't interviewed itself; only its members can. There is a necessary implication that the members of the collective are being talked about so the plural form should be used. [[User:Turkeyphant|'''''<span style="color:#0808C8">Tu</span><span style="color:#0606BE">rk</span><span style="color: #040488">ey</span><span style="color:#020264">ph</span><span style="color:#000064">an</span>''''']][[User talk:Turkeyphant|<sup><big>t</big></sup>]] 12:37, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::If you're going to make claims about verifiable sources, please provide them.
::::::::::''In American usage, a collective noun takes a singular verb when it refers to the collection considered as a whole.... It takes a plural verb when it refers to the members of the group considered as individuals.... In British usage, collective nouns are more often treated as plurals.'' [http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/020.html American Heritage Dictionary]
::::::::::''Athletic teams and governments are usually treated as plural by the British, both for pronoun reference and subject-verb agreement.... Americans generally use the singular for the verb, but the subsequent pronouns will often be plural.'' [http://www.bartleby.com/68/47/247.html Columbia Guide to Standard American English]
::::::::::''When a group is considered as a single unit, its collective noun is used with a singular verb and singular pronouns... But when the focus is on the individual members of the group, British English tends to use a plural verb and plural pronouns with its collective nouns. American English usually uses a singular verb and pronouns in these circumstances.'' [http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/dictionaries/english/data/d0081767.html Hutchison Encyclopedia (UK)]
:::::::::I'm sure your sources would be very interesting. As I have said, you are obviously unfamiliar with idiomatic American English, and I understand that you were confused. But Wikipedia has been over this many times and there is a guideline to follow, which is that local idiom is favored. In the United States, we say "Neutral Milk Hotel '''was''' a band." --[[User:Dhartung|Dhartung]] | [[User talk:Dhartung|Talk]] 20:21, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

==Neutrality==
"Though there is a certain truth to be had in the notion that one's dreams are only of interest to one's self, Mangum managed to transcend the inherent difficulties of such a personal exploration by employing wildly invigorating and decidedly ambiguous imagery to express his holocaustian dreams of fear and loss under Hitler's blood-soaked iron fist."

This seems like excessive editorializing. Also, the metaphor mixing in the last phrase sort of bothers me -- a metal such as iron cannot absorb a liquid such as blood. "Blood-soaked iron" sounds really weird to me. [[User:Acc78|Acc78]] 19:13, 9 May 2007 (UTC)acc78 May 9 2007

==Doing Major clean up==
Man lots to do here, things need to be wikified, things need to be un-wikified (do we really need to wikifi the word lyrics). Trying to make it more neutral. Trying to make the various sections have the same tone. And adding a ton of vitation needed tags. Lets work on getting some sources in this article.
[[User:Ridernyc|Ridernyc]] 17:08, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

==Merging with the [[Jeff Mangum]] page==

Both articles are kind of a mess and it seems info fromt his apge should be on the ohter page and vice versa. Anyone have an ideas on what we should do? Ridernyc 18:09, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

== External link / reference suggestion: Excerpt from NMH 33 1/3 book ==

As an editor at ''Crawdaddy!,'' and to comply with COI guidelines, I am not posting the link to this excerpt we posted (with permission) from Kim Cooper's 33 1/3 book about Neutral Milk Hotel's ''In the Aeroplane Over the Sea''. However, I would like to recommend it as a great potential external link or reference, and hope that an editor will find the time to examine the excerpt and—if he or she sees fit—use it as an external link or reference on this page. I appreciate your time. ''[[Crawdaddy!]]'' [http://crawdaddy.wolfgangsvault.com/Article/Neutral-Milk-Hotel-In-the-Aeroplane-Over-the-Sea.html]<br /><small>[[User:Mike harkin|Mike harkin]] ([[User talk:Mike harkin|talk]]) 20:07, 26 February 2009 (UTC)</small>

== an indie folk band? ==

I would think Neutral Milk Hotel is more appropriately classified as "indie rock" or "indie folk rock." Just getting others opinions before I potentially edit that. [[User:Lewzer99|Lewzer99]] ([[User talk:Lewzer99|talk]]) 18:27, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
:I think indie rock is more appropriate. It is strange to suggest that folk is a greater influence on their music than rock is! [[User:Sillyfolkboy|Sillyfolkboy]] ([[User talk:Sillyfolkboy|talk]]) 23:03, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
::The folk influence is undeniable but that's merely all it is, just an influence. Indie rock covers the bases just fine, whereas indie folk rock narrows it down much more than it needs to be. [[User:Vanishdoom|—Vanishdoom]] ([[User talk:Vanishdoom|talk]]) 00:28, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
:::I changed it to indie rock. [[User:Lewzer99|Lewzer99]] ([[User talk:Lewzer99|talk]]) 06:41, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
::::I was thinking that neo-psychedelic should also be removed, since the article had already classified the band as psych-folk.([[Special:Contributions/128.192.236.45|128.192.236.45]] ([[User talk:128.192.236.45|talk]]) 15:37, 21 October 2009 (UTC))

== Name ==

The origin of this band's name should be explained. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 02:54, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


== Record labels in lede ==
Good Luck!--[[Special:Contributions/71.225.238.113|71.225.238.113]] ([[User talk:71.225.238.113|talk]]) 03:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


Odd that the lede mentions Cher Doll Records but not Merge, considering how the latter is much more of a defining connection for the band. I don't have a source handy but I know ''In the Aeroplane'' continued to be a huge seller for the label for years (if not today) up through the Arcade Fire era. A few sources in Google Books mention Arcade Fire overtaking the title of Merge's best-selling record, but not sure where I read something along the lines of ''Aeroplane'' outselling the label's other new releases years later. <span style="background:#F3F3F3; padding:3px 9px 4px">[[User talk:Czar|<span style='font:bold small-caps 1.2em sans-serif;color:#871E8D'>czar</span>]]</span> 14:38, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
It means nothing, and they think that's cool, because that's how pretentious hipsters think.


== Intro ==
== New EP ==


New EP just dropped at midnight, February 1st. Can't find any kind of press buildup suggesting new material. [[Special:Contributions/96.33.8.11|96.33.8.11]] ([[User talk:96.33.8.11|talk]]) 06:19, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
I don't think the intro should go into, or even necessarily mention all the NMH albums it does. I feel description of those should be saved primarily for the body of the article. Opinions?- ([[User:Lewzer99|Lewzer99]] ([[User talk:Lewzer99|talk]]) 15:46, 21 October 2009 (UTC))

Latest revision as of 05:49, 17 November 2024

Featured articleNeutral Milk Hotel is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
December 26, 2020Good article nomineeListed
April 18, 2022Featured article candidatePromoted
Current status: Featured article

Record labels in lede

[edit]

Odd that the lede mentions Cher Doll Records but not Merge, considering how the latter is much more of a defining connection for the band. I don't have a source handy but I know In the Aeroplane continued to be a huge seller for the label for years (if not today) up through the Arcade Fire era. A few sources in Google Books mention Arcade Fire overtaking the title of Merge's best-selling record, but not sure where I read something along the lines of Aeroplane outselling the label's other new releases years later. czar 14:38, 30 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New EP

[edit]

New EP just dropped at midnight, February 1st. Can't find any kind of press buildup suggesting new material. 96.33.8.11 (talk) 06:19, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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