Jump to content

Talk:Irma Grese: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous edit
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
 
(220 intermediate revisions by 85 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{talkheader}}
I wonder why Irma Grese was such horrible person. Is it true that she was a victim of the war. I am not a symperthizer of Nazis. But I fell really sorry for this young lady and even more sorry for the all the jews killed in the war. If she had been born in a peace time she not only would had lived a normal life by becoming a lover, wife and a mother but also would shown great courage and bravery in her work. It is indeed sad she treated jewish prisoners with animilistic treatment. It is very sad that she choses children to be gassed. But my view is that she should have been spared from hanging as she was a minor and a teenager at the time of the crime occured. (Irshad Cassim - Sri Lanka)
{{WikiProject banner shell|class=C|vital=yes|living=n|listas=Grese, Irma|1=
{{WikiProject Biography|military-work-group=y|military-priority=Low}}
{{WikiProject Women's History|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Germany|importance=Low
<!-- B-Class 5-criteria checklist -->
}}
{{WikiProject Military history|class=C
<!-- B-Class 5-criteria checklist -->
|b1 <!-- Referencing and citations --> =y
|b2 <!-- Coverage and accuracy --> =n
|b3 <!-- Structure --> =y
|b4 <!-- Grammar and style --> =y
|b5 <!-- Supporting materials --> =y
|Biography=y|German=y|WWII=y}}
}}
{{User:MiszaBot/config
|archiveheader = {{talk archive navigation}}
|maxarchivesize = 200K
|counter = 2
|minthreadsleft = 3
|minthreadstoarchive = 1
|algo = old(400d)
|archive = Talk:Irma Grese/Archive %(counter)d
}}
{{archives}}


== External links modified ==
It seems perfectly obvious that she was a depraved psychopath. Obviously, in peace time her behaviour would soon have landed her in jail and on the block. - Norvo, 00:08 UTC, 18 June 2006
Hello fellow Wikipedians,


I have just modified 2 external links on [[Irma Grese]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=798721190 my edit]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
== Irma Grese ==
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160302151957/http://blogboyerhistory.bloguez.com/blogboyerhistory/836238/Biographie_de_Irma_Grese_Gardienne_SS_a_AUSCHWITZ to http://blogboyerhistory.bloguez.com/blogboyerhistory/836238/Biographie_de_Irma_Grese_Gardienne_SS_a_AUSCHWITZ
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140504231847/http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/belsen5.htm to http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/WCC/belsen5.htm


When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
It's probably true that Irma Grese would have led a normal life if not for the war. But It's difficult to have sympathy for someone so cruel, especially considering her alleged collection of lampshades. It has been suggested that she was a nymphonanic, but according to the morality of the time, this may merely have meant she had a high sex drive. If she was mentally ill, she should have been spared. I have also read that her story inspired the Moors murderer Myra Hindley. Does anyone know if there's any truth in this?


{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}
Terry Huggins. Hastings. England.


Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 12:11, 3 September 2017 (UTC)


== Another Wikipedia Travesty ==
== External links modified ==
Hello fellow Wikipedians,


I have just modified one external link on [[Irma Grese]]. Please take a moment to review [[special:diff/810663710|my edit]]. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit [[User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot|this simple FaQ]] for additional information. I made the following changes:
Irma Grese was a simple farm girl who became a postal clerk at Belsen. Does anyone believe a girl this beautiful would bed with some lice ridden camp criminals? [http://www.cwporter.com/heroic.htm Short biography]
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100111071220/http://max.mmvi.de/ssfrauen/irmagrese.htm to http://max.mmvi.de/ssfrauen/irmagrese.htm


When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
:Nice to see the latest generations of Nazi's are still at it. Oh well, they are sooooo amusing though, poor things! --[[User:RobNS|RobNS]] 23:37, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


{{sourcecheck|checked=false|needhelp=}}
Who would want to make love to a crule woman, who looks like a man in a frock?!
Homer slips- 05.54 UDC, Dec'21, 2006.


Cheers.—[[User:InternetArchiveBot|'''<span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span>''']] <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">([[User talk:InternetArchiveBot|Report bug]])</span> 17:42, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
A source-


== Post-liberation Interview ==
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6142/irma.html
Both Grese and [[Josef Kramer|Kramer]] were interrogated shortly after the camp's liberation by [[Eric Brown (pilot)|Eric Brown]], who spoke fluent German, and who had been asked to do so by [[Hugh Llewellyn Glyn Hughes|Glyn Hughes]]. His opinion of them is on his linked article page.<!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/95.149.53.190|95.149.53.190]] ([[User talk:95.149.53.190#top|talk]]) 17:35, 15 March 2018</small>
--[[User:Homer slips.|Homer slips.]] 03:12, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


[[Eric Brown (pilot)|Eric Brown]] did not go into much detail on Grese and [[Josef Kramer|Kramer]] in his book ''Wings on My Sleeve'', other than describing Grese as "the worst human being I have ever met." As of 2024-11-20, YouTube has a documentary on Brown. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32_BliefkGw Soviet Aircraft of WW2 | Legendary Test Pilot Eric Winkle Brown Talks About Soviet Planes] discusses Soviet aircraft that he flew, followed by his full career, and quite a lot of interviews. About 48 minutes in, he discusses the Belsen concentration camp in some detail, followed by a fairly detailed interview of Irma Grese. Is this usable as a source? [[User:JHowardGibson|JHowardGibson]] ([[User talk:JHowardGibson|talk]]) 19:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
== Copyright violations ==

Portions of this article appear to be copied verbatim from [http://judicial-inc.biz/Irma_Grese_by_redirect.htm]. Also, the web page from which the text is taken appears very sympathetic to her and the Nazis in general. [[User:66.30.14.1|66.30.14.1]] 09:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
:This is indeed something to consider. That website seems to be either pro-Nazi, holocaust-denying, or both. [[User:JHMM13|JHMM13]] ([[User talk:JHMM13|T]] | [[Special:Contributions/JHMM13|C]]) [[Image:Flag of the United States.svg|25px|<nowiki></nowiki>]] [[Image:Flag of Germany.svg|25px|<nowiki></nowiki>]] 00:14, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Whether you are pro or anti nazi the facts stay the same. --[[User:88.109.191.249|88.109.191.249]] 14:12, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

== Neutrality ==

I read this article for research a few months ago and whilst the early parts appear the same, most of the latter half appears to have been substantially re-edited in her favour, as well as certain other statements (eg. the executioner's suicide) which didn't appear in the earlier article at all. It is also interesting that none of this supposedly verifiable information is referenced in any way.

DG, Leeds, UK

----

I think the POV-tag is misplaced. It should not refer to "War crimes" but to "Beautiful Beast".
The "War crimes" section is, in my view, factual and neutral. It just tells what she was accused of, and convicted for. The only ''factual mistake'' here seems to be the date of her conviction - I don't believe she was hanged the same day!
:Found meanwhile the correct date of conviction in a German document [http://www.bis.uni-oldenburg.de/bisverlag/taaang98/kap6.pdf] and changed it.--[[User:Kauko56|Kauko56]] 23:47, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

The "Beautiful Beast" section, however, dwells on her (alleged) lovers or sexual preferences and is therefore irrelevant for her place in history, or her legal guilt. The references for this section do not point to sources but to tabloid press clippings. If we want to shed some light on who she was as a person (not: as a criminal) we should at least try to get better sources.<br>
These are the reasons why I removed the POV-Tag from "War Crimes" and placed it on "Beautiful Beast".
--[[User:Kauko56|Kauko56]] 23:34, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I've been studying Mengele for a long time, and nowhere have I ever heard that he took Irma Grese as a lover. If anything, he was fiercely loyal to his wife, Irene, and she even lived with him at Auschwitz for about a year. I think a lot of this article is wishful thinking, trying to make another cruel SS guard into some romantic heroine. --Rebecca, Myrtle Beach SC 10/07/06

===War Crimes?===
Framed by "...hysterical Jewesses that wanted blood" ? The whole section is neo-Nazi claptrap.

I'm sorting out the Neo-Nazis, dros, crap, Sh1t and kods-wolp tomorrow. I've also got a bundel of links I'm adding to!
--[[User:Homer slips.|Homer slips.]] 03:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

== Delete Last Paragraph ==
Even without knowing the true facts, anyone can see that the last paragraph on the subject of Irma Grese is Nazi Propaganda. Get rid of it!


Edited as of 10/8/06 into more or less the same state it was in previously - which, oddly, did include the bit about the ghost.

DG, Leeds

===Ghost Story===
I don't know where the ghost story regarding Krema 3 came from with the night watchman in 1948 - all the gas chambers and crematoria were destroyed by the guards (other than one blown up by prisoners) in 1945

It is posibal that the devil may have kicked out of hell in disgust!!!
--[[User:Homer slips.|Homer slips.]] 03:39, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

== Neo-Nazis Again Pushing Their Pseudo-Heroine ==

The Neo-Nazis are at it again, massaging the article and trying to promote this depraved individual into some kind of glorious and victimized Aryan milkmaid. We'll have to keep an eye on this -- either that or have the article protected in some reasonably neutral form. I'd hate to have some innocent kid stumble across it in its current form and assume it's for real.

Irma Grese was never SS, because the SS never allowed women. How anyone can believe the crap about her skinning Jews is beyond the pale. She was a simple farm girl that worked at a camp, she was paid by German labor dept.

== Anti-Nazis Again Pushing Their Pseudo-Hate Figure ==

Parts of this "encyclopedic article" are taken from a webpage which also states the following: 'In her hut were found the skins of three inmates that she had had made into lamp shades'. Am I alone, really, in struggling with the utter harebrained stupidity of that preposterous claim and if such a claim could be made, and people would believe it, surely it puts the rest of the charges under extreme strain and a posthumous pardon should be considered for this young lady. --[[User:88.111.194.14|88.111.194.14]] 14:48, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


My grandfather is a WWII vet that was part of the company that liberated Auschwitz, and one of the things he has told me about, many times, were the lampshades made of human skin. Apparently they prized skin with birthmarks or tattooes. He has also seen (and I have seen a photo he snapped of this) a human pelvic bone polished and stained, being used as an ashtray holder.

A posthumous pardon would be neither here nor there; her crimes have been committed and she is surely suffering for them. --Rebecca, Myrtle Beach SC 7/10/06

Time will tell, and I am sure it will favour her. --[[User:88.110.142.244|88.110.142.244]] 23:57, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

==Removed bits==

I removed today the following bit from the "Execution" section:

"to be hanged by Ronald Cook, assisted by Regimental Sergeant-Major O'Neill."
Reason: The name "Richard Cook" was not supported by sources. The name O'Neill stems from Pierrepoint's autobiography, but there is no evidence that already the verdict contained the names of executioner and assistant, which the article'S wording seemed to imply.

Second bit removed:
"One of the hangmen, Ronald Cook, refused to hang Griese. Major Jerome Burdik ordered him to and that night he went home and shot himself. Afterwards two American military policemen Sgt O'Hare and Cpl Rick Smith also were court marshaled for refusing to walk Irma to the gallows and a civilian hangman had to be flown in from Britain for the task."

It is correct that the "civilian hangman" Pierrepoint was flown in, but everything else is unsupported by sources and seems to be taken from http://militaryhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/irma_grese_beast_of_auschwitz which, in turn, does not give sources either. Apart from this, the claim that American military policemen had been involved in any way is incredible since Belsen as well as Hameln were in the '''British''' Occupation Zone where U.S. soldiers had no function whatsoever. Details as dotty as that destroy the credibility of everything else as well.

The weblink quoted above was removed from the "External links" section as well since it was inserted to support the sentence that "Three different hangmen refused to hang Irma Grese", a claim for which there is no support in the website quoted, and which seems to serve no purpose except portraying Grese as a victim so innocent that it was evident even to the executioners...

I find it typical and disturbing that changes of this type are regularly made by people who go by an IP address rather than using an account. It sheds some light on their courage - or lack of same. --[[User:Kauko56|Kauko56]] 18:17, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 19:24, 20 November 2024

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Irma Grese. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:11, 3 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Irma Grese. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

  • If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
  • If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:42, 16 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Post-liberation Interview

[edit]

Both Grese and Kramer were interrogated shortly after the camp's liberation by Eric Brown, who spoke fluent German, and who had been asked to do so by Glyn Hughes. His opinion of them is on his linked article page.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.53.190 (talk) 17:35, 15 March 2018

Eric Brown did not go into much detail on Grese and Kramer in his book Wings on My Sleeve, other than describing Grese as "the worst human being I have ever met." As of 2024-11-20, YouTube has a documentary on Brown. Soviet Aircraft of WW2 | Legendary Test Pilot Eric Winkle Brown Talks About Soviet Planes discusses Soviet aircraft that he flew, followed by his full career, and quite a lot of interviews. About 48 minutes in, he discusses the Belsen concentration camp in some detail, followed by a fairly detailed interview of Irma Grese. Is this usable as a source? JHowardGibson (talk) 19:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Irma_Grese&oldid=1258629318"