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== Semi-protected edit request on 9 April 2024 ==
== date of birth and early bio? ==


Owen Benjamin Smith (born May 24, 1980) is an American alt-right internet personality and former stand-up comedian and actor.
{{Edit semi-protected|Owen Benjamin|answered=yes}}
'''Please change the following text in the Owen Benjamin article:'''


imdb
Remove:
Growing up with an opera-singing father, he has played classical piano since childhood. [[Special:Contributions/2604:3D08:9B77:AB00:34FD:8E52:5DA:9E60|2604:3D08:9B77:AB00:34FD:8E52:5DA:9E60]] ([[User talk:2604:3D08:9B77:AB00:34FD:8E52:5DA:9E60|talk]]) 18:06, 5 November 2024 (UTC)
"Owen Benjamin Kares Troy-Smith (born May 24, 1980), known professionally as Owen Benjamin, is an American conspiracy theorist and internet personality known for promoting white supremacy, antisemitism, homophobia, and neo-Nazism."
:Please note that content must be sourced to [[WP:RS|reliable sources]], and [[WP:IMBD|IMDB]] is generally "[[WP:UGC|user-generated content]]", which is not considered reliable. There are also additional requirements when adding [[WP:DOB|dates of birth]] for [[WP:BLP|biographies of living people]]. – [[User:Notwally|notwally]] ([[User talk:Notwally|talk]]) 21:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Replace with:
'''Owen Benjamin Kares Troy-Smith''' (born May 24, 1980), professionally known as '''Owen Benjamin''', is an American free thinker, comedian, established actor, family man, and farmer. He has garnered attention as an internet personality for his thought-provoking perspectives. Benjamin, who values independent thinking, humor, and his commitment to his family and farm, has been involved in various forms of entertainment, including stand-up comedy and minor acting roles in mainstream film and television between 2008 and 2015. [[User:Nhaselton|Nhaselton]] ([[User talk:Nhaselton|talk]]) 19:12, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' please provide [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> Furthermore, I have reverted your edit that introduced this change, as it introduced no new sources and misrepresents the ones currently on the page. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;(she/her&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|talk]]) 19:40, 9 April 2024 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 29 April 2024 ==

{{Edit semi-protected|Owen Benjamin|answered=yes}}
Please remove the statement about repeatedly referring to an NPR host as a "child molester" as the source of this quote has been deleted and its reliability is heresay. [[User:Todaystomsawyer1981|Todaystomsawyer1981]] ([[User talk:Todaystomsawyer1981|talk]]) 15:11, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> Both sources for that claim are still live. If you're having trouble accessing them, there are also archived copies of both sources provided in the references.
:If you are referring to the ''tweet'' being deleted, that's not particularly material; at least two reliable sources reported on him making it, which suggests it's noteworthy enough to include. Deleting it after the fact doesn't change that. If you are concerned that two reliable sources independently decided to fabricate an identical tweet that Benjamin never made, that certainly stretches the limits of believability, but you're also welcome to look up the link in an archive platform like [https://web.archive.org/ the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine] if you would like to satisfy your own curiosity as to whether it ever existed. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;(she/her&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|talk]]) 15:36, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 29 April 2024 (2) ==

{{Edit semi-protected|Owen Benjamin|answered=yes}}
Dear Wikipedia Editors,

I am writing to propose a revision to the introductory section of the Owen Benjamin biography to ensure adherence to Wikipedia's guidelines on neutrality and verifiability.

Current text:
"'''Owen Benjamin Kares Troy-Smith''' (born May 24, 1980), known professionally as '''Owen Benjamin''', is an American [[Conspiracy theory|conspiracy theorist]] and [[Internet celebrity|internet personality]] known for promoting [[white supremacy]], [[antisemitism]], [[homophobia]], and [[neo-Nazism]].<ref>{{Cite web |date=December 26, 2023 |title=Owen Benjamin: What You Need to Know |url=https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/owen-benjamin-what-you-need-know |access-date=2024-02-02 |website=[[Anti Defamation League]]}}</ref><ref name=":5" /><ref name=":6" /><ref name=":4" /><ref name="Petrizzo-2019" /><ref>{{cite web |last1=Wilson |first1=Jason |last2=Squire |first2=Megan |title=Revealed: Startup Creates Streaming Platform for Extremists on Big-Tech Infrastructure |url=https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2021/12/19/revealed-startup-creates-streaming-platform-extremists-big-tech-infrastructure |website=Southern Poverty Law Center |access-date=12 September 2022 |language=en |date=19 December 2021}}</ref> He was a [[Stand-up comedy|stand-up comedian]] and [[actor]] who had minor roles in mainstream film and television between 2008 and 2015.

In the late 2010s, Benjamin began expressing more extreme political views. In 2019, he was banned from several mainstream social media platforms for violations of their policies, including [[Twitter]], [[Facebook]], [[Instagram]], and [[YouTube]].<ref name=":3" /><ref name="instagram" /><ref name="Goforth" /> These included antisemitic remarks, homophobic remarks, and calling [[Barack Obama]] a "[[nigger]]".<ref name="Petrizzo-2019" /><ref name="instagram" /><ref name="redpill" />"

Proposed revision:
"'''Owen Benjamin Kares Troy-Smith''' (born May 24, 1980), known professionally as '''Owen Benjamin''', is an American [[comedian]] and [[actor]]. He gained initial recognition through [[stand-up comedy]] and had minor roles in mainstream film and television between 2008 and 2015.

In the late 2010s, Benjamin's public statements and political views became more controversial. He has been the subject of scrutiny and criticism for expressing viewpoints that have been characterized as promoting white supremacy, antisemitism, homophobia, and neo-Nazism by various sources.<ref>{{Cite web |date=December 26, 2023 |title=Owen Benjamin: What You Need to Know |url=https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/owen-benjamin-what-you-need-know |access-date=2024-02-02 |website=[[Anti Defamation League]]}}</ref><ref name=":5" /><ref name=":6" /><ref name=":4" /><ref name="Petrizzo-2019" /><ref>{{cite web |last1=Wilson |first1=Jason |last2=Squire |first2=Megan |title=Revealed: Startup Creates Streaming Platform for Extremists on Big-Tech Infrastructure |url=https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2021/12/19/revealed-startup-creates-streaming-platform-extremists-big-tech-infrastructure |website=Southern Poverty Law Center |access-date=12 September 2022 |language=en |date=19 December 2021}}</ref> Benjamin's remarks have been described as offensive and have resulted in his removal from several mainstream social media platforms, including [[Twitter]], [[Facebook]], [[Instagram]], and [[YouTube]] in 2019, due to policy violations.<ref name=":3" /><ref name="instagram" /><ref name="Goforth" /> These included antisemitic remarks, homophobic remarks, and calling [[Barack Obama]] a "[[nigger]]".<ref name="Petrizzo-2019" /><ref name="instagram" /><ref name="redpill" />"

This revision aims to provide a more balanced and neutral representation of Owen Benjamin's career and controversies, ensuring factual accuracy and compliance with Wikipedia's content policies. The original references were preserved.

Thank you for considering this edit request.

Sincerely, [[User:Todaystomsawyer1981|Todaystomsawyer1981]] ([[User talk:Todaystomsawyer1981|talk]]) 16:50, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
:Wikipedia policy requires that articles reflect how reliable sources describe the subject, in proportion to how they are described in those sources. The current sources overwhelmingly describe Benjamin as a conspiracy theorist who promotes the stated viewpoints, and it does not appear you have introduced any new sources that present a different viewpoint.

:It might be helpful if you could clarify for the person reviewing your edit request whether you a) believe that the current wording does not reflect the existing sources (and provide specifics as to why), or b) believe that ''other'' sources exist that present Benjamin primarily as a comedian/etc. rather than a conspiracy theorist/provocateur (and provide these sources). [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;(she/her&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|talk]]) 19:53, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you for your reply.
::The following is an updated proposed revision with additional sources. References of "Twitter" are updated to "X". Named citations are taken from the article's source. I included a reference to conspiracy theories. The structure and readability was improved by summarizing controversial viewpoints and removing a specific quote from the introduction. The quote refers to using a racist slur. Retain the quote by moving it to the Views section or a separate section. Moving the quote to a separate section is outside the scope of this edit.:
::"'''Owen Benjamin Kares Troy-Smith''' (born May 24, 1980), known professionally as '''Owen Benjamin''', is an American [[comedian]] and [[actor]].<ref name="IMDb 2011 u411">{{cite web | title=Owen Benjamin - IMDb | website=[[IMDb]] | url=https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2513581/ | url-status=live| archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20230425000043/https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2513581/ | archive-date=April 25, 2023 | access-date=2024-04-30}}</ref><ref name="Rotten Tomatoes 1980 e813">{{cite web | title=Owen Benjamin | website=[[Rotten Tomatoes]] | url=https://www.rottentomatoes.com/celebrity/owen_benjamin | access-date=2024-04-30 | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20221214082311/https://www.rottentomatoes.com/celebrity/owen_benjamin | archive-date=December 14, 2022 | url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="Laugh Factory Network 2024 n447">{{cite web | title=Laugh Factory | website=[[Laugh Factory]] | url=https://www.laughfactory.com/comedians/OwenBenjamin | access-date=2024-04-30 | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240430173035/https://www.laughfactory.com/comedians/OwenBenjamin | archive-date=30 April 2024| url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="Glee 2019 m134">{{cite web | title=Owen Benjamin | website=[[The Glee Club]] | date=2019-05-01 | url=https://www.glee.co.uk/performer/owen-benjamin/ | access-date=2024-04-30 | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240430173559/https://www.glee.co.uk/performer/owen-benjamin/ | archive-date=April 30, 2024| url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="IMDb 2023 m025" /><ref name="Apple TV">{{cite web | title=Owen Benjamin Movies and Shows | website=[[Apple TV+]] | url=https://tv.apple.com/us/person/owen-benjamin/umc.cpc.6wx0326iewr97xgl2pmgoym85 | access-date=2024-04-30 | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20230417081302/https://tv.apple.com/us/person/owen-benjamin/umc.cpc.6wx0326iewr97xgl2pmgoym85| archive-date=April 17, 2023}}</ref><ref name="Amazon">{{cite web | title=Owen Benjamin: Movies, TV, and Bio | website=[[Amazon Prime Video]] | date=2024-03-22 | url=https://www.amazon.com/prime-video/actor/Owen-Benjamin/amzn1.dv.gti.a11a0a0a-f4d8-46d1-b82d-30e402561fdd/ | access-date=2024-04-30 | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240430173745/https://www.amazon.com/prime-video/actor/Owen-Benjamin/amzn1.dv.gti.a11a0a0a-f4d8-46d1-b82d-30e402561fdd/ | archive-date=April 30, 2024 | url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="Oprah">{{cite web | title=Comedian Owen Benjamin's Hilarious Ballad About Relationships | website=[[Oprah Winfrey Network]] | date=2016-02-20 | url=https://www.oprah.com/own-itsnotyouitsmen/comedian-owen-benjamins-hilarious-musical-ode-to-relationships | access-date=2024-04-30| archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20230925020452/https://www.oprah.com/own-itsnotyouitsmen/comedian-owen-benjamins-hilarious-musical-ode-to-relationships| archive-date=September 25, 2023}}</ref> He gained initial recognition through [[stand-up comedy]] and had roles in mainstream film and television between 2008 and 2015 including, ''[[The House Bunny]]'', ''[[Jack and Jill (2011 film) |Jack and Jill]]'', ''[[All's Faire in Love]]'', and ''[[Sullivan & Son]]'.<ref name="ricciengagement">{{cite web|last=Schweitzer|first=Kate|date=March 17, 2009|title=Christina Ricci is Engaged!|url=http://www.usmagazine.com/news/christina-ricci-owen-benjamin-are-engaged-2009163|url-status=dead|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20090320035941/http://www.usmagazine.com/news/christina-ricci-owen-benjamin-are-engaged-2009163|archive-date=March 20, 2009|website=[[Us Weekly]]}}</ref><ref name="oswegonews">{{Cite press release|title=Oswego native Owen Benjamin to perform at Funny Bone in Syracuse|date=August 31, 2016|url=http://www.oswegocountynewsnow.com/news/oswego-native-owen-benjamin-to-perform-at-funny-bone-in/article_6b8db50a-6f04-11e6-b286-b734f0ae402b.html|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190710052847/http://www.oswegocountynewsnow.com/news/oswego-native-owen-benjamin-to-perform-at-funny-bone-in/article_6b8db50a-6f04-11e6-b286-b734f0ae402b.html|archive-date=July 10, 2019|work=Oswego County News Now}}</ref><ref name="IMDb 2011 u411" />
::In the late 2010s, Benjamin's public statements and political views became more controversial, drawing scrutiny and criticism from various sources. Some viewpoints attributed to him have been characterized as promoting conspiracy theories, white supremacy, antisemitism, homophobia, and neo-Nazism by certain critics and commentators.<ref name=":18">{{Cite web |date=December 26, 2023 |title=Owen Benjamin: What You Need to Know |url=https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/owen-benjamin-what-you-need-know |access-date=2024-02-02 |website=[[Anti Defamation League]]}}</ref><ref name=":5" /><ref name=":6">{{cite web|last1=Lorenz|first1=Taylor|author-link=Taylor Lorenz|date=October 30, 2018|title=Instagram Is Teeming With Anti-Semitism|url=https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/instagram-ignored-crazyjewishmom-harassment/574450|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190329152758/https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/instagram-ignored-crazyjewishmom-harassment/574450/|archive-date=March 29, 2019|access-date=June 2, 2019|website=[[The Atlantic]]}}</ref><ref name=":4">{{Cite news|last=Sommer|first=Will|date=June 1, 2021|title=Neighbors Fear Bear-Themed Compound Will Be Next Ruby Ridge|language=en|work=[[The Daily Beast]]|url=https://www.thedailybeast.com/neighbors-fear-bear-themed-compound-will-be-next-ruby-ridge|access-date=June 27, 2021|archive-date=June 3, 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210603010105/https://www.thedailybeast.com/neighbors-fear-bear-themed-compound-will-be-next-ruby-ridge|url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="Petrizzo-2019">{{cite news |last1=Petrizzo |first1=Zachary |title=Alt-right comedian Owen Benjamin banned from Instagram over anti-Semitic memes |url=https://www.dailydot.com/debug/owen-benjamin-banned-instagram/ |access-date=June 27, 2021 |work=The Daily Dot |date=December 13, 2019 |archive-date=June 29, 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210629063519/https://www.dailydot.com/debug/owen-benjamin-banned-instagram/ |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{cite web |last1=Wilson |first1=Jason |last2=Squire |first2=Megan |date=19 December 2021 |title=Revealed: Startup Creates Streaming Platform for Extremists on Big-Tech Infrastructure |url=https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2021/12/19/revealed-startup-creates-streaming-platform-extremists-big-tech-infrastructure |access-date=12 September 2022 |website=Southern Poverty Law Center |language=en}}</ref> These remarks have been described as offensive and have led to his removal from mainstream comedy engagements and several social media platforms, including [[Twitter | X (formally known as Twitter)]], [[Facebook]], [[Instagram]], and [[YouTube]], due to policy violations.<ref name=":3">{{cite news|last1=Petrizzo|first1=Zachary|date=December 4, 2019|title=Owen Benjamin, alt-right comedian, banned from YouTube|language=en|work=[[The Daily Dot]]|url=https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/owen-benjamin-youtube/|url-status=live|access-date=December 14, 2019|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20191206223306/https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/owen-benjamin-youtube/|archive-date=December 6, 2019}}</ref><ref name="instagram">{{cite news|last1=Holt|first1=Jared|date=December 13, 2019|title=Instagram and Facebook Suspend Right-Wing 'Comedian' Owen Benjamin|work=[[Right Wing Watch]]|publisher=[[People For the American Way]]|url=https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/instagram-and-facebook-suspend-right-wing-comedian-owen-benjamin/|url-status=live|access-date=December 14, 2019|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20191213234714/https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/instagram-and-facebook-suspend-right-wing-comedian-owen-benjamin/|archive-date=December 13, 2019}}</ref><ref name="Goforth">{{Cite web|last=Goforth|first=Claire|date=March 24, 2020|title=Banned 'alt-right' comedian returns to spread coronavirus misinformation|url=https://www.dailydot.com/debug/owen-benjamin-youtube-twitter/|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200708023912/https://www.dailydot.com/debug/owen-benjamin-youtube-twitter/|archive-date=July 8, 2020|access-date=July 17, 2020|website=[[The Daily Dot]]|language=en-US}}</ref><ref name="Mandel">{{cite web|last1=Mandel|first1=Bethany|date=April 8, 2019|title=How did conservative comedian Owen Benjamin became a darling of the 'alt-right'?|url=https://www.jta.org/2019/04/08/opinion/how-did-conservative-comedian-owen-benjamin-became-a-darling-of-the-alt-right|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190416213259/https://www.jta.org/2019/04/08/opinion/how-did-conservative-comedian-owen-benjamin-became-a-darling-of-the-alt-right|archive-date=April 16, 2019|access-date=May 14, 2019|website=[[Jewish Telegraphic Agency]]}}</ref><ref name=":5">{{cite web|last1=Einbinder|first1=Nicole|date=April 11, 2019|title=White nationalists continue to post on Instagram, despite a new Facebook policy banning such content|url=https://www.thisisinsider.com/white-nationalists-post-on-instagram-despite-facebook-ban-2019-4|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190414154520/https://www.thisisinsider.com/white-nationalists-post-on-instagram-despite-facebook-ban-2019-4|archive-date=April 14, 2019|access-date=April 14, 2019|website=[[Insider.com|Insider]]|publisher=}}</ref><ref name="Petrizzo-2019" /><ref name="instagram" /><ref name="redpill">{{cite news|last1=Holt|first1=Jared|date=February 12, 2019|title=Owen Benjamin: Another 'Red Pill' Overdose Victim|work=[[Right Wing Watch]]|publisher=[[People for the American Way]]|url=http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/owen-benjamin-another-red-pill-overdose-victim/|url-status=live|access-date=July 11, 2019|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190717022406/http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/owen-benjamin-another-red-pill-overdose-victim/|archive-date=July 17, 2019}}</ref>
::As of 2023, Benjamin continues to perform standup comedy and remains active on [[Twitter | X]] and various [[Streaming media | streaming platforms]].<ref name="IMDb 2023 m025">{{cite web | title=Noble Savage (2023) ⭐ 6.2 | website=IMDb | date=2023-10-13 | url=https://www.imdb.com/title/tt29441143/ | access-date=2024-04-30}}</ref><ref name=:18 />"
::This revision maintains its original aims to provide a more balanced and neutral representation of Owen Benjamin's career and controversies. The inclusion of Benjamin's initial recognition or primary occupation at the beginning of a biography of a living person (BLP) on Wikipedia aligns with the site's guidelines on establishing the subject's notability and providing a clear introduction to their career trajectory. This approach is recommended based on Wikipedia policies and best practices. Let me explain why:
::Establishing Notability: Wikipedia's guidelines for BLPs emphasize the importance of establishing a person's notability early in the article.
::Neutral Point of View (NPOV): Presenting a person's primary occupation or field of recognition at the outset helps maintain a neutral tone by focusing on factual information about their career rather than subjective evaluations or controversies.
::Structural Consistency: Most Wikipedia biographies follow a standard format, starting with an introduction to the person's background and career highlights. Then, more detailed information is followed, such as controversies or personal life. This format helps organize information in a logical and reader-friendly manner.
::Avoiding Bias: By beginning with the person's initial recognition or career highlights, Wikipedia editors can introduce the subject in a way that minimizes bias and focuses on objective facts about their professional achievements.
::For example, you can observe this approach in various well-developed Wikipedia biographies, where the opening paragraphs typically start with a brief overview of the person's notable career or achievements before addressing other aspects of their life or controversies. Career and achievements provide context and establish relevance in the encyclopedia.
::In summary, including Benjamin's initial recognition or primary occupation at the beginning of a BLP introduction on Wikipedia is in line with the site's content policies, supports verifiability, and helps establish the subject's notability in a neutral and structured manner.
::Sincerely, [[User:Todaystomsawyer1981|Todaystomsawyer1981]] ([[User talk:Todaystomsawyer1981|talk]]) 19:13, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
:::Please see Wikipedia's policies on [[WP:RS|what kinds of sources are appropriate]]. You'll be wanting secondary, reliable sources that describe Benjamin in detail — not [[WP:UGC|user-generated]] listings of his acting from IMDb and Rotten Tomatoes, or (often self-written) biographies published by venues where he appeared (apparently about 12 years ago, in the case of Laugh Factory, or 7 years ago, in the case of The Glee). If there are a substantial number of reliable, secondary sources (think newspapers, magazines, books, etc.) that describe Benjamin primarily as a comedian or actor, that could be a reason to introduce him as such. However, they would need to be weighed with the substantial number of sources that suggest Benjamin's notability is more thanks to his conspiracy theories and political comments. It may be that there was a time where he was more known as a comedian/actor — as evidenced by the fact that the new sources you have suggested mostly date back to 2009–2017 — but more recent reliable sources tend to remark more on his politics than his comedy. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;(she/her&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|talk]]) 21:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
::::Thank you for the reply and suggestions. The following is an updated proposed revision that includes secondary reliable sources. I added internal links that were missing. I modified citations to improve relevance. One of the most remarkable changes was updating Benjamin's profession to "right-wing comedian". This characterization strikes a balance between his characterization as a mainstream comedian of the past and his more recent right-leaning political statements while maintaining neutrality. I want to reiterate that the quote using a racial slur is still not included and suggested to be moved to the Views section as described previously.:
::::"'''Owen Benjamin Kares Troy-Smith''' (born May 24, 1980), known professionally as '''Owen Benjamin''', is an American [[Right-wing politics | right-wing]] [[comedian]] and [[actor]].<ref name="Price 2017 s911">{{cite web | last=Price | first=Jason | title=Unsung Heroes of Hollywood: The Comedy of Owen Benjamin | website=Icon Vs. Icon | date=2017-07-08 | url=https://www.iconvsicon.com/2017/07/08/unsung-heroes-of-hollywood-the-comedy-of-owen-benjamin/ | access-date=2024-05-01 | url-status=live | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20230530003316/https://www.iconvsicon.com/2017/07/08/unsung-heroes-of-hollywood-the-comedy-of-owen-benjamin/ | archive-date=May 30, 2023}}</ref><ref name="Genzlinger 2011 f753">{{cite web | last=Genzlinger | first=Neil | title=‘All’s Faire in Love,’ With Christina Ricci | website=The New York Times | date=2011-10-27 | url=https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/28/movies/alls-faire-in-love-with-christina-ricci-review.html | access-date=2024-05-01 | url-status=live | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220617065152/https://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/28/movies/alls-faire-in-love-with-christina-ricci-review.html | archive-date=June 17, 2022}}</ref><ref name="View all posts 2013 b236">{{cite web | author=View all posts | title=Living Writers Series: Owen Benjamin | website=The Oswegonian | date=2013-11-22 | url=https://www.oswegonian.com/2013/11/21/living-writers-series-owen-benjamin/ | access-date=2024-05-01 | url-status=live | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220113124705/https://www.oswegonian.com/2013/11/21/living-writers-series-owen-benjamin/ | archive-date=Jan 13, 2022}}</ref><ref name="Shreve 2017 f294">{{cite web | last=Shreve | first=Thomas | title=Owen Benjamin leaves audience in tears | website=Iowa State Daily | date=2017-03-23 | url=https://iowastatedaily.com/59562/limelight/owen-benjamin-leaves-audience-in-tears/ | access-date=2024-05-01 | url-status=live | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240501141721/https://iowastatedaily.com/59562/limelight/owen-benjamin-leaves-audience-in-tears/ | archive-date=May 1, 2024}}</ref><ref name="DiDonato 2017 v332">{{cite web | last=DiDonato | first=Nicole | title=Catch comedian Owen Benjamin at Dr. Grins | website=FOX 17 West Michigan News (WXMI) | date=2017-02-24 | url=https://www.fox17online.com/2017/02/24/catch-comedian-owen-benjamin-at-dr-grins | access-date=2024-05-01 | url-status=live | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20220526232728/https://www.fox17online.com/2017/02/24/catch-comedian-owen-benjamin-at-dr-grins | archive-date=May 26, 2022}}</ref><ref name="oswegonews" /><ref name="ricciengagement" /><ref name="Oprah">{{cite web | title=Comedian Owen Benjamin's Hilarious Ballad About Relationships | website=[[Oprah Winfrey Network]] | date=2016-02-20 | url=https://www.oprah.com/own-itsnotyouitsmen/comedian-owen-benjamins-hilarious-musical-ode-to-relationships | access-date=2024-04-30| archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20230925020452/https://www.oprah.com/own-itsnotyouitsmen/comedian-owen-benjamins-hilarious-musical-ode-to-relationships| archive-date=September 25, 2023}}</ref><ref name="Guild 2013 a460">{{cite web | last=Guild | first=Art Directors | title=Comedian Owen Benjamin to Host the Art Directors Guild 18th Annual Excellence in Production Design Awards, Feb. 8 | website=PR Newswire | date=2013-10-09 | url=https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/comedian-owen-benjamin-to-host-the-art-directors-guild-18th-annual-excellence-in-production-design-awards-feb-8-227054521.html | access-date=2024-05-01 | url-status=live | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20131213174043/https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/comedian-owen-benjamin-to-host-the-art-directors-guild-18th-annual-excellence-in-production-design-awards-feb-8-227054521.html | archive-date=Dec 13, 2013}}</ref><ref name="Greenberg 2014 f287">{{cite web | last=Greenberg | first=Rudi | title=‘Sullivan & Son’ star Steve Byrne brings castmates Ahmed Ahmed, Owen Benjamin and Roy Wood Jr. to the DC Improv | website=Washington Post | date=2014-07-31 | url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/express/wp/2014/07/31/sullivan-son-star-steve-byrne-brings-castmates-ahmed-ahmed-owen-benjamin-and-roy-wood-jr-to-the-dc-improv/ | access-date=2024-05-01 | url-status=live | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190914052507/https://www.washingtonpost.com/express/wp/2014/07/31/sullivan-son-star-steve-byrne-brings-castmates-ahmed-ahmed-owen-benjamin-and-roy-wood-jr-to-the-dc-improv/ | archive-date=Sep 14, 2019}}</ref><ref name="Airey 2018 m736">{{cite web | last=Airey | first=Jacob | title=Owen Benjamin: The Strange Death Of Comedy | website=The Daily Wire | date=2018-07-31 | url=https://www.dailywire.com/news/owen-benjamin-strange-death-comedy-jacob-airey | access-date=2024-05-01 | url-status=live | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20191031102702/https://www.dailywire.com/news/owen-benjamin-strange-death-comedy-jacob-airey | archive-date=Oct 31, 2019}}</ref> He gained initial recognition through [[stand-up comedy]] and had roles in mainstream film and television between 2008 and 2015 including, ''[[The House Bunny]]'', ''[[Jack and Jill (2011 film) |Jack and Jill]]'', ''[[All's Faire in Love]]'', and ''[[Sullivan & Son]]'.<ref name="Greenberg 2014 f287" /><ref name="DiDonato 2017 v332" /><ref name="Shreve 2017 f294" /><ref name="Genzlinger 2011 f753" /><ref name="ricciengagement">{{cite web|last=Schweitzer|first=Kate|date=March 17, 2009|title=Christina Ricci is Engaged!|url=http://www.usmagazine.com/news/christina-ricci-owen-benjamin-are-engaged-2009163|url-status=dead|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20090320035941/http://www.usmagazine.com/news/christina-ricci-owen-benjamin-are-engaged-2009163|archive-date=March 20, 2009|website=[[Us Weekly]]}}</ref><ref name="oswegonews">{{Cite press release|title=Oswego native Owen Benjamin to perform at Funny Bone in Syracuse|date=August 31, 2016|url=http://www.oswegocountynewsnow.com/news/oswego-native-owen-benjamin-to-perform-at-funny-bone-in/article_6b8db50a-6f04-11e6-b286-b734f0ae402b.html|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190710052847/http://www.oswegocountynewsnow.com/news/oswego-native-owen-benjamin-to-perform-at-funny-bone-in/article_6b8db50a-6f04-11e6-b286-b734f0ae402b.html|archive-date=July 10, 2019|work=Oswego County News Now}}</ref><ref name="IMDb 2011 u411">{{cite web | title=Owen Benjamin - IMDb | website=[[IMDb]] | url=https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2513581/ | url-status=live| archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20230425000043/https://www.imdb.com/name/nm2513581/ | archive-date=April 25, 2023 | access-date=2024-04-30}}</ref><ref name="Rotten Tomatoes 1980 e813">{{cite web | title=Owen Benjamin | website=[[Rotten Tomatoes]] | url=https://www.rottentomatoes.com/celebrity/owen_benjamin | access-date=2024-04-30 | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20221214082311/https://www.rottentomatoes.com/celebrity/owen_benjamin | archive-date=December 14, 2022 | url-status=live}}</ref>
::::In the late 2010s, Benjamin's public statements and political views became more controversial, drawing scrutiny and criticism from various sources. Some viewpoints attributed to him have been characterized as promoting [[Conspiracy theory | conspiracy theories]], [[white supremacy]], [[antisemitism]], [[homophobia]], and [[neo-Nazism]] by certain critics and commentators.<ref name=":18">{{Cite web |date=December 26, 2023 |title=Owen Benjamin: What You Need to Know |url=https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/owen-benjamin-what-you-need-know |access-date=2024-02-02 |website=[[Anti Defamation League]]}}</ref><ref name=":5" /><ref name=":6">{{cite web|last1=Lorenz|first1=Taylor|author-link=Taylor Lorenz|date=October 30, 2018|title=Instagram Is Teeming With Anti-Semitism|url=https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/instagram-ignored-crazyjewishmom-harassment/574450|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190329152758/https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/instagram-ignored-crazyjewishmom-harassment/574450/|archive-date=March 29, 2019|access-date=June 2, 2019|website=[[The Atlantic]]}}</ref><ref name=":4">{{Cite news|last=Sommer|first=Will|date=June 1, 2021|title=Neighbors Fear Bear-Themed Compound Will Be Next Ruby Ridge|language=en|work=[[The Daily Beast]]|url=https://www.thedailybeast.com/neighbors-fear-bear-themed-compound-will-be-next-ruby-ridge|access-date=June 27, 2021|archive-date=June 3, 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210603010105/https://www.thedailybeast.com/neighbors-fear-bear-themed-compound-will-be-next-ruby-ridge|url-status=live}}</ref><ref name="Petrizzo-2019">{{cite news |last1=Petrizzo |first1=Zachary |title=Alt-right comedian Owen Benjamin banned from Instagram over anti-Semitic memes |url=https://www.dailydot.com/debug/owen-benjamin-banned-instagram/ |access-date=June 27, 2021 |work=The Daily Dot |date=December 13, 2019 |archive-date=June 29, 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210629063519/https://www.dailydot.com/debug/owen-benjamin-banned-instagram/ |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{cite web |last1=Wilson |first1=Jason |last2=Squire |first2=Megan |date=19 December 2021 |title=Revealed: Startup Creates Streaming Platform for Extremists on Big-Tech Infrastructure |url=https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2021/12/19/revealed-startup-creates-streaming-platform-extremists-big-tech-infrastructure |access-date=12 September 2022 |website=Southern Poverty Law Center |language=en}}</ref> These remarks have been described as offensive and have led to his removal from mainstream comedy engagements and several social media platforms, including [[Twitter | X (formally Twitter)]], [[Facebook]], [[Instagram]], and [[YouTube]], due to policy violations.<ref name=":3">{{cite news|last1=Petrizzo|first1=Zachary|date=December 4, 2019|title=Owen Benjamin, alt-right comedian, banned from YouTube|language=en|work=[[The Daily Dot]]|url=https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/owen-benjamin-youtube/|url-status=live|access-date=December 14, 2019|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20191206223306/https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/owen-benjamin-youtube/|archive-date=December 6, 2019}}</ref><ref name="instagram">{{cite news|last1=Holt|first1=Jared|date=December 13, 2019|title=Instagram and Facebook Suspend Right-Wing 'Comedian' Owen Benjamin|work=[[Right Wing Watch]]|publisher=[[People For the American Way]]|url=https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/instagram-and-facebook-suspend-right-wing-comedian-owen-benjamin/|url-status=live|access-date=December 14, 2019|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20191213234714/https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/instagram-and-facebook-suspend-right-wing-comedian-owen-benjamin/|archive-date=December 13, 2019}}</ref><ref name="Goforth">{{Cite web|last=Goforth|first=Claire|date=March 24, 2020|title=Banned 'alt-right' comedian returns to spread coronavirus misinformation|url=https://www.dailydot.com/debug/owen-benjamin-youtube-twitter/|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200708023912/https://www.dailydot.com/debug/owen-benjamin-youtube-twitter/|archive-date=July 8, 2020|access-date=July 17, 2020|website=[[The Daily Dot]]|language=en-US}}</ref><ref name="Mandel">{{cite web|last1=Mandel|first1=Bethany|date=April 8, 2019|title=How did conservative comedian Owen Benjamin became a darling of the 'alt-right'?|url=https://www.jta.org/2019/04/08/opinion/how-did-conservative-comedian-owen-benjamin-became-a-darling-of-the-alt-right|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190416213259/https://www.jta.org/2019/04/08/opinion/how-did-conservative-comedian-owen-benjamin-became-a-darling-of-the-alt-right|archive-date=April 16, 2019|access-date=May 14, 2019|website=[[Jewish Telegraphic Agency]]}}</ref><ref name=":5">{{cite web|last1=Einbinder|first1=Nicole|date=April 11, 2019|title=White nationalists continue to post on Instagram, despite a new Facebook policy banning such content|url=https://www.thisisinsider.com/white-nationalists-post-on-instagram-despite-facebook-ban-2019-4|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190414154520/https://www.thisisinsider.com/white-nationalists-post-on-instagram-despite-facebook-ban-2019-4|archive-date=April 14, 2019|access-date=April 14, 2019|website=[[Insider.com|Insider]]|publisher=}}</ref><ref name="Petrizzo-2019" /><ref name="instagram" /><ref name="redpill">{{cite news|last1=Holt|first1=Jared|date=February 12, 2019|title=Owen Benjamin: Another 'Red Pill' Overdose Victim|work=[[Right Wing Watch]]|publisher=[[People for the American Way]]|url=http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/owen-benjamin-another-red-pill-overdose-victim/|url-status=live|access-date=July 11, 2019|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190717022406/http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/owen-benjamin-another-red-pill-overdose-victim/|archive-date=July 17, 2019}}</ref>
::::As of 2023, Benjamin continues to perform standup comedy and remains active on [[Twitter | X]] and various [[Streaming media | streaming platforms]].<ref name="IMDb 2023 m025">{{cite web | title=Noble Savage (2023) ⭐ 6.2 | website=IMDb | date=2023-10-13 | url=https://www.imdb.com/title/tt29441143/ | access-date=2024-04-30}}</ref><ref name=:18 /><ref name="Apple TV">{{cite web | title=Owen Benjamin Movies and Shows | website=[[Apple TV+]] | url=https://tv.apple.com/us/person/owen-benjamin/umc.cpc.6wx0326iewr97xgl2pmgoym85 | access-date=2024-04-30 | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20230417081302/https://tv.apple.com/us/person/owen-benjamin/umc.cpc.6wx0326iewr97xgl2pmgoym85| archive-date=April 17, 2023}}</ref><ref name="Amazon">{{cite web | title=Owen Benjamin: Movies, TV, and Bio | website=[[Amazon Prime Video]] | date=2024-03-22 | url=https://www.amazon.com/prime-video/actor/Owen-Benjamin/amzn1.dv.gti.a11a0a0a-f4d8-46d1-b82d-30e402561fdd/ | access-date=2024-04-30 | archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20240430173745/https://www.amazon.com/prime-video/actor/Owen-Benjamin/amzn1.dv.gti.a11a0a0a-f4d8-46d1-b82d-30e402561fdd/ | archive-date=April 30, 2024 | url-status=live}}</ref>"
::::This revision maintains its original aims to:
::::- Provide a more balanced and neutral representation of Owen Benjamin's career and controversies.
::::- Include initial recognition or primary occupation at the beginning of a biography of a living person (BLP) that aligns with the site's guidelines on establishing the subject's notability and providing a clear introduction to their career trajectory.
::::This approach is recommended based on Wikipedia policies and best practices outlined previously. Additionally, this avoids [[Wikipedia:Recentism | recentism]], where the article has an imbalanced focus on recent events without an aim toward a long-term, historical view. Recent sources often label him as a "comedian" with additional descriptions to the right despite focusing on his conspiracy theories and political commentary.
::::Thank you for considering this edit request.
::::Sincerely, [[User:Todaystomsawyer1981|Todaystomsawyer1981]] ([[User talk:Todaystomsawyer1981|talk]]) 15:54, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

:::::I'm leaving this edit request open for another editor to handle, but I do think your concerns about recentism are misplaced. The lead sentence should describe Benjamin in terms of his primary notability, and that you're having to dig back to 2009 Christina Ricci engagement announcements to find sources that describe him primarily as a comedian or that highlight his acting career suggests that that is not be his primary source of notability. I would also oppose the tortured wording of "Some viewpoints attributed to him have been characterized as..." rather than simply "known for promoting". In my view, this is far ''less'' neutral than the existing lead, which well reflects the sourcing. [[User:GorillaWarfare|GorillaWarfare]]&nbsp;(she/her&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[User talk:GorillaWarfare|talk]]) 16:13, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

:::::[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> No consensus. Per GorillaWarfare, the proposed wording seems far too verbose to be appropriate, and [[Wikipedia:Citation overkill|citation overkill]] doesn't help. I appreciate the intent, but the way to insure the article remains neutral is not to ignore less flattering sources. Likewise, balance should not be confused with false balance. To put it another way, softening the article to assist him in his PR is the opposite of neutral, so this edit does not support your stated goal. [[User:Grayfell|Grayfell]] ([[User talk:Grayfell|talk]]) 04:44, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
::::::Thank you for the reply and suggestions. For consensus, this edit removes verbose language and strictly uses currently published approved sources to avoid citation overkill. It maintains the original intent of maintaining balance, neutrality, and structural consistency of BLPs. Nonsubstanstitive edits were made for clarity and consiseness.
::::::"Owen Benjamin Kares Troy-Smith (born May 24, 1980), known as Owen Benjamin, is an American right-wing comedian and former actor. He rose to fame in [[stand-up comedy]] and mainstream film and television from 2008 to 2015, appearing in productions like ''[[The House Bunny]]'', ''[[All's Faire in Love]]'', and ''[[Inside Amy Schumer]]''.
::::::During the late 2010s, Benjamin began espousing increasingly extreme political views, including conspiracy theories, [[white supremacy]], [[antisemitism]], [[homophobia]], and [[neo-Nazism]].<ref>{{Cite web |date=December 26, 2023 |title=Owen Benjamin: What You Need to Know |url=https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/owen-benjamin-what-you-need-know |access-date=2024-02-02 |website=[[Anti Defamation League]]}}</ref><ref name=":5">{{cite web|last1=Einbinder|first1=Nicole|date=April 11, 2019|title=White nationalists continue to post on Instagram, despite a new Facebook policy banning such content|url=https://www.thisisinsider.com/white-nationalists-post-on-instagram-despite-facebook-ban-2019-4|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190414154520/https://www.thisisinsider.com/white-nationalists-post-on-instagram-despite-facebook-ban-2019-4|archive-date=April 14, 2019|access-date=April 14, 2019|website=[[Insider.com|Insider]]|publisher=}}</ref><ref name=":6">{{cite web|last1=Lorenz|first1=Taylor|author-link=Taylor Lorenz|date=October 30, 2018|title=Instagram Is Teeming With Anti-Semitism|url=https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/instagram-ignored-crazyjewishmom-harassment/574450|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190329152758/https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/10/instagram-ignored-crazyjewishmom-harassment/574450/|archive-date=March 29, 2019|access-date=June 2, 2019|website=[[The Atlantic]]}}</ref><ref name="Petrizzo-2019">{{cite news |last1=Petrizzo |first1=Zachary |title=Alt-right comedian Owen Benjamin banned from Instagram over anti-Semitic memes |url=https://www.dailydot.com/debug/owen-benjamin-banned-instagram/ |access-date=June 27, 2021 |work=The Daily Dot |date=December 13, 2019 |archive-date=June 29, 2021 |archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210629063519/https://www.dailydot.com/debug/owen-benjamin-banned-instagram/ |url-status=live }}</ref><ref>{{cite web |last1=Wilson |first1=Jason |last2=Squire |first2=Megan |title=Revealed: Startup Creates Streaming Platform for Extremists on Big-Tech Infrastructure |url=https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2021/12/19/revealed-startup-creates-streaming-platform-extremists-big-tech-infrastructure |website=Southern Poverty Law Center |access-date=12 September 2022 |language=en |date=19 December 2021}}</ref><ref name=":4">{{Cite news|last=Sommer|first=Will|date=June 1, 2021|title=Neighbors Fear Bear-Themed Compound Will Be Next Ruby Ridge|language=en|work=[[The Daily Beast]]|url=https://www.thedailybeast.com/neighbors-fear-bear-themed-compound-will-be-next-ruby-ridge|access-date=June 27, 2021|archive-date=June 3, 2021|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20210603010105/https://www.thedailybeast.com/neighbors-fear-bear-themed-compound-will-be-next-ruby-ridge|url-status=live}}</ref> In 2019, he was banned from multiple social media platforms for violating their policies, including [[Twitter | X]] (formally Twitter), [[Facebook]], [[Instagram]], and [[YouTube]].<ref name=":3">{{cite news|last1=Petrizzo|first1=Zachary|date=December 4, 2019|title=Owen Benjamin, alt-right comedian, banned from YouTube|language=en|work=[[The Daily Dot]]|url=https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/owen-benjamin-youtube/|url-status=live|access-date=December 14, 2019|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20191206223306/https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/owen-benjamin-youtube/|archive-date=December 6, 2019}}</ref><ref name="instagram">{{cite news|last1=Holt|first1=Jared|date=December 13, 2019|title=Instagram and Facebook Suspend Right-Wing 'Comedian' Owen Benjamin|work=[[Right Wing Watch]]|publisher=[[People For the American Way]]|url=https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/instagram-and-facebook-suspend-right-wing-comedian-owen-benjamin/|url-status=live|access-date=December 14, 2019|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20191213234714/https://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/instagram-and-facebook-suspend-right-wing-comedian-owen-benjamin/|archive-date=December 13, 2019}}</ref><ref name="Goforth">{{Cite web|last=Goforth|first=Claire|date=March 24, 2020|title=Banned 'alt-right' comedian returns to spread coronavirus misinformation|url=https://www.dailydot.com/debug/owen-benjamin-youtube-twitter/|url-status=live|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20200708023912/https://www.dailydot.com/debug/owen-benjamin-youtube-twitter/|archive-date=July 8, 2020|access-date=July 17, 2020|website=[[The Daily Dot]]|language=en-US}}</ref> These included antisemitic remarks, homophobic remarks, and calling [[Barack Obama]] a "[[nigger]]".<ref name="Petrizzo-2019" /><ref name="instagram" /><ref name="redpill">{{cite news|last1=Holt|first1=Jared|date=February 12, 2019|title=Owen Benjamin: Another 'Red Pill' Overdose Victim|work=[[Right Wing Watch]]|publisher=[[People for the American Way]]|url=http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/owen-benjamin-another-red-pill-overdose-victim/|url-status=live|access-date=July 11, 2019|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20190717022406/http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/owen-benjamin-another-red-pill-overdose-victim/|archive-date=July 17, 2019}}</ref>
::::::As of 2023, Benjamin continues to perform standup comedy and remains active on X and [[Streaming media | streaming platforms]]."
::::::Thank you for considering this edit request.
::::::Sincerely, [[User:Todaystomsawyer1981|Todaystomsawyer1981]] ([[User talk:Todaystomsawyer1981|talk]]) 14:27, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

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Latest revision as of 21:39, 20 November 2024


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date of birth and early bio?

[edit]

Owen Benjamin Smith (born May 24, 1980) is an American alt-right internet personality and former stand-up comedian and actor.

imdb Growing up with an opera-singing father, he has played classical piano since childhood. 2604:3D08:9B77:AB00:34FD:8E52:5DA:9E60 (talk) 18:06, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that content must be sourced to reliable sources, and IMDB is generally "user-generated content", which is not considered reliable. There are also additional requirements when adding dates of birth for biographies of living people. – notwally (talk) 21:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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