Jump to content

Talk:Jazz: Difference between revisions

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Browse history interactively
← Previous edit
Content deleted Content added
VisualWikitext
remove duplicate archives box
 
(42 intermediate revisions by 18 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Talk header|search=yes}}
{{Talk header|search=yes}}
{{Vital article|topic=Art|level=3|class=B}}
{{American English}}
{{American English}}
{{Article history
{{Article history
Line 10: Line 9:
|currentstatus=FFA
|currentstatus=FFA
}}
}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|1=
{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=B|vital=yes|1=
{{WikiProject African diaspora|class=B|importance=High}}
{{WikiProject African diaspora|importance=High}}
{{WikiProject Jazz|class=B|importance=top}}
{{WikiProject Jazz|importance=top}}
{{WikiProject Media|class=B|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Media|importance=Low}}
{{WikiProject Music/Music genres task force|class=B}}
{{WikiProject Music/Music genres task force}}
{{WikiProject United States|class=B|importance=High|LA=yes|LA-importance=High|NOLA=yes|NOLA-importance=top|USMusic=yes|USMusic-importance=High}}
{{WikiProject United States|importance=High|LA=yes|LA-importance=High|NOLA=yes|NOLA-importance=top|USMusic=yes|USMusic-importance=High}}
}}
}}
{{skiptotalk}}
{{skiptotalk}}
Line 30: Line 29:
| minthreadsleft = 4
| minthreadsleft = 4
}}
}}
{{Archives}}


==Wiki Education assignment: Black American Music F24==
== Earlier uses of the word "jazz" ==
{{dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment | course = Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/University_at_Albany_SUNY/Black_American_Music_F24_(Fall_2024) | assignments = [[User:Kpcw24|Kpcw24]] | start_date = 2024-08-26 | end_date = 2024-12-09 }}


<span class="wikied-assignment" style="font-size:85%;">— Assignment last updated by [[User:Javjames30|Javjames30]] ([[User talk:Javjames30|talk]]) 01:41, 22 October 2024 (UTC)</span>
I have found earlier uses of the word jazz, although not in newspapers. The reliance on newspaper uses is misguided for several reasons: (1) "jazz," "jass," "jaz" and "jas" had vulgar connotations, and would not make it past an editor on a newspaper of general circulation; (2) it is highly unlikely that California newspapers had Black reporters or editors in the first decade of the twentieth century to inform the white sports reporters what the word "jazz" meant--one of the California articles cited simply throws up its hands and say "'Jazz' stands for whatever you want it to." (June 22, 1913 San Francisco paper); (3) baseball teams also weren't integrated at the time, so unlikely there would have been any Black players around to set their white teammates/coaches straight.

The earlier uses I have found are as follow:

1. Gunther Schuller interview of George Morrison, born in 1891 in Fayette, Missouri. Morrison says he first heard the word "jazz" in 1911--and says he remembers the year clearly because it was also the year of his marriage. This interview appears in Schuller's "Early Jazz: Its Roots and Musical Development," p. 362. Morrison painted the word "Jazz" on the side of the car that he used to drive his band to gigs.

2. Ray Lopez, New Orleans trumpeter, told Samuel Charters he first heard the term in 1912 in New Orleans, "Trumpet Around the Corner: The Story of New Orleans Jazz," p. 117. He says he heard it at a vaudeville rehearsal.

3. Wilbur Sweatman, born in 1882 in Brunswick, Missouri, told Jelly Roll Morton that he invented jazz before Morton, playing in the Ozarks in Missouri, John Szwed, liner notes to Jelly Roll Morton: The Library of Congress Recordings by Alan Lomax, Rounder Records CD 11661-1897-2, citing Roy Carew interview on deposit at the University of Chicago. Sweatman was nearly a decade older than Morton; the most extensive account of his life is "That's Got 'Em: The Life and Music of Wilbur C. Sweatman," Mark Berresford, University Press of Mississippi, 2010.

The Indianapolis Freeman, the Variety Magazine of the Black vaudeville circuit, reported in 1906 that Sweatman was playing jazz as early as 1906: "Little did we think that Mr. Sweatman's original style of playing would be adopted by the great jazz artists of today; but it is and Mr. Sweatman can claim the honor of being the first to establish it."

Sweatman was playing jazz as early as 1902 as a member of P.G. Lowery's Concert Band playing with the Forepaugh and Sells Bros. sideshow. He probably developed the style in the pre-circus parades through the streets of the towns where the circus was performing (known in the trade as a "ballyhoo"). His playing in these parades created a "sensation," according to Tom Fletcher, 100 Years of the Negro in Show Business, New York: Da Capo Press, 1984. Of these improvised variations on standard songs, one author said "it is unlikely that a faithful realization of a standard marching band clarinet part would have caused such a sensation.

W.C. Handy called Sweatman a jazz pioneer, W.C. Handy: Father of the Blues, p. 153 (New York: Collier Books, 1941). Sweatman recorded "Down Home Rag" in December, 1916, several weeks before the February, 1917 session by the Original Dixieland Jass Band that produced what some describe as the first jazz recordings. Sweatman was referring to his brand of music as "jazz" as early as 1912 and possibly 1910 (Berresford, 106-07, and Abbott & Seroff, The Original Blues: The Emergence of the Blues in African-American Vaudeville, 1899-1926, University Press of Mississippi).

My conclusion is that the baseball origin story has things exactly backwards. Jazz or jass was being played in New Orleans in the 19th century, and itinerant musicians who left the city took it with them, where it was heard by musicians elsewhere, particularly up the Mississippi and Missouri rivers to the Kansas City area. It eventually spread to the west coast, where white baseball players and sportswriters, unaware of its local meaning but associating it with uptempo jazz music spread to California by Jelly Roll Morton and others, transferred the term "jazz" stripped of its obscene meanings to baseball, where in a denatured form it meant simply "pep." Similar things have happened with other terms that were originally developed in Black speech: "uptight" was used by Stevie Wonder in a 1965 song to mean "good" (a cleaned-up version of the many "tight like that" blues songs that referred to sexual satisfaction), then came to mean "nervous" or "anxious" when used by white speakers.

I am the author of "Rabbit's Blues: The Life and Music of Johnny Hodges"; "Kansas City Jazz: A Little Evil Will Do You Good" (in which some of the above research appears); and "Don Byas: Sax Expatriate," to be published by University Press of Mississippi in 2024.

Con Chapman
617/909-5286 [[User:Conchapman|Conchapman]] ([[User talk:Conchapman|talk]]) 15:18, 18 June 2023 (UTC)
:{{ping|User:Conchapman}} Interesting (and thanks for your work on the Hodges book – it's on my list of things to read). The summary in this article is of the [[Jazz (word)]] article, where some of the historical haze you describe is covered, although largely with different examples. The summary is broadly in line with what you assert: it was "related to jasm, a slang term dating back to 1860 meaning 'pep, energy'", then the baseball link refers to the "earliest written record" – "written" being important. Perhaps a fuller summary would add non-written accounts between the jasm and baseball accounts, although I think it would be best as something general such as 'several anecdotal accounts attest to the word "jazz" being used prior to 1912 to refer to a style of music', given that a lot of the musicians of the time had a tendency towards self-aggrandisement, so some of the specific claims might look fanciful. [[User:EddieHugh|EddieHugh]] ([[User talk:EddieHugh|talk]]) 18:02, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

== Suggested additional text for the Diversity in Jazz: Jews in Jazz section to include [[Shep Fields]] ==

Cioa fellow Wikipedia editors: Just a quick suggestion of additional text and references for the section entitled '''Diversity in Jazz: Jews in Jazz'''. The following text might be helpful:
::'''[[Shep Fields]] also helped to popularize "Sweet" Jazz music through his appearances and [[Big band remote]] broadcasts from such landmark venues as Chicago's [[Palmer House Hilton|Palmer House]], Broadway's [[Paramount Theater (New York City)|Paramount Theater]] and the Starlight Roof at the famed [[Waldorf-Astoria Hotel]]. He entertained audiences with a light elegant musical style which remained popular with audiences for nearly three decades from the 1930s until the late 1950s.'''<ref>[https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=oaYrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=5fwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6717,4906729&dq=broadcast+hotel+shep+fields&hl=en The Telegraph, Feb. 24, 1981 p. 9 Shep Field Obituary on Google]</ref><ref name="The Big Bands - 4th Edition">[https://books.google.com/books?id=gj4DAwAAQBAJ&q=Shep+Fields&pg=PT325 ''The Big Bands - 4th Edition''] George T. Simon. Schirmer Trade Books, London, 2012 {{ISBN|978-0-85712-812-6}} "Shep Fields Biography" on Books.google.com</ref><ref name="nyt1">{{cite web |title=SHEP FIELDS, LEADER OF BIG BAND KNOWEN FOR RIPPLING RYTHEM (Published 1981) |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1981/02/24/obituaries/shep-fields-leader-of-big-band-knowen-for-rippling-rythem.html |website=The New York Times |accessdate=28 October 2020 |date=24 February 1981}}</ref>

I hope it proves useful. Many thanks for your consideration and Happy Editing![[Special:Contributions/160.72.80.178|160.72.80.178]] ([[User talk:160.72.80.178|talk]]) 23:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC)NHPL
{{reflist}} [[Special:Contributions/160.72.80.178|160.72.80.178]] ([[User talk:160.72.80.178|talk]]) 23:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

==Semi Protected Edit Request for [[Jazz]]==
{{edit semi-protected|Jazz|answered=no}}


Cioa fellow Wikipedia editors: Just a quick suggestion of additional text and references to be added to the section entitled '''Diversity in Jazz: Jews in Jazz'''. The following text might be helpful:
::'''[[Shep Fields]] also helped to popularize "Sweet" Jazz music through his appearances and [[Big band remote]] broadcasts from such landmark venues as Chicago's [[Palmer House Hilton|Palmer House]], Broadway's [[Paramount Theater (New York City)|Paramount Theater]] and the Starlight Roof at the famed [[Waldorf-Astoria Hotel]]. He entertained audiences with a light elegant musical style which remained popular with audiences for nearly three decades from the 1930s until the late 1950s.'''<ref>[https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=oaYrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=5fwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6717,4906729&dq=broadcast+hotel+shep+fields&hl=en The Telegraph, Feb. 24, 1981 p. 9 Shep Field Obituary on Google]</ref><ref name="The Big Bands - 4th Edition">[https://books.google.com/books?id=gj4DAwAAQBAJ&q=Shep+Fields&pg=PT325 ''The Big Bands - 4th Edition''] George T. Simon. Schirmer Trade Books, London, 2012 {{ISBN|978-0-85712-812-6}} "Shep Fields Biography" on Books.google.com</ref><ref name="nyt1">{{cite web |title=SHEP FIELDS, LEADER OF BIG BAND KNOWEN FOR RIPPLING RYTHEM (Published 1981) |url=https://www.nytimes.com/1981/02/24/obituaries/shep-fields-leader-of-big-band-knowen-for-rippling-rythem.html |website=The New York Times |accessdate=28 October 2020 |date=24 February 1981}}</ref>

I hope it proves useful. Many thanks for your consideration and Happy Editing![[Special:Contributions/160.72.80.178|160.72.80.178]] ([[User talk:160.72.80.178|talk]]) 23:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC)NHPL
{{reflist}} [[Special:Contributions/160.72.80.178|160.72.80.178]] ([[User talk:160.72.80.178|talk]]) 23:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC) [[Special:Contributions/160.72.80.178|160.72.80.178]] ([[User talk:160.72.80.178|talk]]) 00:00, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

:I don't know who makes the final decision, but this seems like a reasonable request to me. <small>--Comment by </small> [[User:SelfieCity|<b style="color:#14866d">Selfie City</b>]] ([[User_talk:SelfieCity|<span style="color:#14866d">talk</span>]] about my [[Special:Contribs/SelfieCity|<span style="color:#14866d">contributions</span>]]) 14:39, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 00:07, 21 November 2024

Former featured articleJazz is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on October 21, 2004.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
January 19, 2004Refreshing brilliant proseKept
February 12, 2006Featured article reviewDemoted
March 17, 2007Good article nomineeNot listed
September 20, 2018Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former featured article

Wiki Education assignment: Black American Music F24

[edit]

This article is currently the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2024 and 9 December 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kpcw24 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Javjames30 (talk) 01:41, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jazz&oldid=1258678139"