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== Philanthropy/lobbying etc. ==
== Nov. 9th 2006 edits ==


Why is it called the former when clearly it's the latter? Only thing they seem to be doing is using their money to buy what they're interested in... since when is that philanthropy? A possibly neutral term could be merely donating, but funding churches that hope for a theocracy isn't quite "promoting the welfare of others"... [[Special:Contributions/92.7.58.211|92.7.58.211]] ([[User talk:92.7.58.211|talk]]) 06:02, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Her husband is a former President of Alticor. Also, I removed comments regarding her father and brother. The former doesn't belong in an article about her. A separate article should be created for her father and the information included there. The comments about profits were unsourced and irrelevant. If there's an article about Blackwater, discuss them there and link to it from here.
:Philanthropy is a vague concept with a lot of nuances. You might think that certain things don't promote the welfare of others, but other people might disagree. [[User:Kerdooskis|'''<span style="color:teal;">Kerdooskis</span>''']][[User talk:Kerdooskis|''talk'']] 17:02, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
:While much of her spending would be considered lobbying, and should not be considered philanthropy any more than political contributions do, the DeVos foundation does, according to the article, give to "hospitals, health research, arts organizations, Christian schools"... all of which would serve under common defintions of philanthropy. And while I share the general concern that every rich person who ever gave a nickel to beggar has folks wanting to identify them as a [[WP:PHILANTHROPIST]] in the lede, in the case of the DeVoses, there seems to be sufficient coverage there to use it. -- [[User:NatGertler|Nat Gertler]] ([[User talk:NatGertler|talk]]) 17:42, 19 March 2024 (UTC)


== Request to amend titles in Biography==
Shouldn't it be added that her husband is Dick DeVos and that he ran for governor. And also her role in Grand Rapids, Michigan because she has done a lot. And what about when she was chairman of the Republican Party.<small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:71.90.98.114|71.90.98.114]] ([[User talk:71.90.98.114|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/71.90.98.114|contribs]]) 14:45, May 19, 2007</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
{{Edit semi-protected|answered=yes}}


A request to update the titles which are attributed to Betsy Devos in her biography.
== Reverted edits that are [[WP:BLP]] policy violations ==


Due to Betsy Devos's deep, long-standing involvement in Christian Nationalism, it is imperative that the world, especially the American public be made aware of her identity and role as a Christian Nationalist.
These [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Betsy_DeVos&diff=166285029&oldid=162867317 edits] were reverted. They are unsourced. MAYBE if they had sources they could come back in but clearly not without sources. ++[[User:Lar|Lar]]: [[User_talk:Lar|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Lar|c]] 16:11, 22 October 2007 (UTC)


Similar to Paul Weyrich, and inspired by the movement he co-founded with the Council for National Policy in 1981, a movement whose goal was and, by any recent evidence, still is for Christians-only to rule in government and to replace democracy with a theocracy, Betsy has played an imperative role in the Christian Nationalist movement as a Christian Nationalist herself.
== MediaMouse as a Source ==


In 2001, Betsy DeVos, who later became the secretary of education under Trump, framed her advocacy for voucher programs and other school choice programs as an effort to “advance God’s kingdom.” [https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/betsy-devos-education-trump-religion-232150]
[http://www.mediamouse.org/ MediaMouse] does not appear to meet [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|Wikipedia standards for verifiable sources]]. Additionally, the previously linked source did not contain any information about a dispute with John Engler. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Gotophilk|Gotophilk]] ([[User talk:Gotophilk|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Gotophilk|contribs]]) 18:42, 6 February 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


In recent years, a super-PAC run by the American Federation for Children, which is DeVos’ school choice advocacy group, has spent millions of dollars to defeat Republican legislators who oppose private school vouchers, according to reporting by [https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2024/03/school-choice-group-spends-millions-to-oust-recalcitrant-republicans/ Open Secrets]. A prerequisite for students and their families to attend [https://wearecovenant.org/application-process some] of the [https://highlandchristian.org/admissions/admissions-standards/ schools] that currently receive voucher money is that they accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior.
==Recent expansion of article==
I have recently wikified the article, adding an infobox, see also section, about 7 or 8 sources and expanded text. Hopefully this will upgrade the article from stub class [[User:KeptSouth|KeptSouth]] ([[User talk:KeptSouth|talk]]) 07:07, 24 May 2011 (UTC)


[https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/01/betsy-dick-devos-family-amway-michigan-politics-religion-214631/ Thanks to the DeVoses, Michigan’s charter schools enjoy a virtually unregulated existence. Thanks to them, too, the center of the American automotive industry and birthplace of the modern labor movement is now a right-to-work state. They’ve funded campaigns to elect state legislators, established advocacy organizations to lobby them, buttressed their allies and primaried those they disagree with, spending at least $100 million on political campaigns and causes over the past 20 years. “The DeVos family has been far more successful not having the governor’s seat than if they had won it,” says Richard Czuba, the owner of the Glengariff Group, a bipartisan polling firm in Michigan.]
== Severe issues ==


Based on the evidence of her and her family's powerful and monetary role in the Christian Nationalist movement, it is a disservice to the world and to the American people who deserve to know the truth, to say that Betsy Devos is merely just a conservative Republican. [[User:SeekTruthUSA|SeekTruthUSA]] ([[User talk:SeekTruthUSA|talk]]) 10:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
This article has serious issues in regards to [[WP:NPOV]], [[WP:NOR]], [[WP:V]] / [[WP:RS]], [[WP:TRIVIA]], [[WP:COATRACK]], etc., etc. At least 3/4 of the material &ndash; all this pointless detail-mongering and name-dropping &ndash; in this piece could simply be deleted. Start with all the organization details that do not pertain {{em|directly}} to the subject of the article, then the biographizing about descendants (I deleted the granddaughter's name for privacy reasons), all the non-notable organization namedropping (redlink? throw it out), and so on. Then move on to the [[WP:PEACOCK]] wording and other puff-piece junk, like dwelling on how many homes they have, etc. This article on minor notables in the business world is longer than many of our articles on major figures of world history but provides only about 10% as much encyclopedic value, and is mostly sourced to [[WP:PSTS|primary sources]], and low-quality news sources like local newspaper and their websites and blogs. The article is being treated like it's the personal webpage of Besty DeVos, and it's pretty clear there's [[WP:COI]] editing going on here.


:Looking at the sources you provide in this, none of them refer to her as a "Christian nationalist". While I can certainly see someone inferring that stance from those and various other things, for a claim as sensitive as this we would need strong reliable sourcing. To merely come to the conclusion ourselves would fly in the face of our [[WP:OR|goal to avoid original research]]. -- [[User:NatGertler|Nat Gertler]] ([[User talk:NatGertler|talk]]) 14:42, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
All of the above pertains to her husband's article, too. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 00:49, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
:I'm inclined to agree with you. The career section is filled with trivia and one-sided peacocking. The board memberships section is completely unreferenced -- a tedious resume-like list. The article also seems to be completely lacking in coverage of the more controversial aspects about DeVos, like the criticism she has received for her efforts at school privatization; for example, All Children Matter was found to have broken campaign finance laws in 2008 and had not paid a $5.2 million fine levied against the organization. [[User:Rhode Island Red|Rhode Island Red]] ([[User talk:Rhode Island Red|talk]]) 23:48, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
::Just for starters. I only encountered this page while [[WP:GNOME]]ing, and am pretty appalled at both the promotional trivia-mongering and studious avoidance of any critical material, though lots of it is instantly findable via Google. Ditto for the husband's article too. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 02:00, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
:::Hello. I reverted one edit, whose aim was to remove the "personal life" section, as it would have been non-standard layout for a Wikipedia article. Her philanthropy on education reform is philanthropic, not politics, as far as I can tell...Moreover, I think her residences should be added back, as that is standard information on Wikipedia, unless there is a clear safety issue (which we would understand).[[User:Zigzig20s|Zigzig20s]] ([[User talk:Zigzig20s|talk]]) 04:57, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
:::I also dewikified the red links, which brought nothing to this article. I don't think the article needs further trimming. If you do, can you please give us specific examples where you'd like to trim? Thank you.[[User:Zigzig20s|Zigzig20s]] ([[User talk:Zigzig20s|talk]]) 05:00, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
:::: I think the removal you reverted was mine - but my removals were [[WP:BOLD|bold]], and I have no problem with people putting stuff back in if they think it was removed in error. That's assuming you're not going to re-insert ''all'' of the fluffy quotes and resume style lists, of course! [[User:Fyddlestix|Fyddlestix]] ([[User talk:Fyddlestix|talk]]) 05:02, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
:::::I looked at the history and we don't need fluffy language about her residences; just where she resides and the name of her yacht I suppose. Again, we can remove them for safety reasons if they ask (even though Wikipedia is not censored).[[User:Zigzig20s|Zigzig20s]] ([[User talk:Zigzig20s|talk]]) 05:10, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
:::::[[User:Fyddlestix]]: Just added them back without fluffy language. Does this sound OK to you?[[User:Zigzig20s|Zigzig20s]] ([[User talk:Zigzig20s|talk]]) 05:20, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
:::::: Yeah it looks fine to me Zig, like I said don't worry about reverting me if you think there's something that needs to go back in. That's fine! [[User:Fyddlestix|Fyddlestix]] ([[User talk:Fyddlestix|talk]]) 05:22, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 06:23, 23 November 2024


Archives (Index)

This page is archived by ClueBot III.

Philanthropy/lobbying etc.

[edit]

Why is it called the former when clearly it's the latter? Only thing they seem to be doing is using their money to buy what they're interested in... since when is that philanthropy? A possibly neutral term could be merely donating, but funding churches that hope for a theocracy isn't quite "promoting the welfare of others"... 92.7.58.211 (talk) 06:02, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Philanthropy is a vague concept with a lot of nuances. You might think that certain things don't promote the welfare of others, but other people might disagree. Kerdooskistalk 17:02, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While much of her spending would be considered lobbying, and should not be considered philanthropy any more than political contributions do, the DeVos foundation does, according to the article, give to "hospitals, health research, arts organizations, Christian schools"... all of which would serve under common defintions of philanthropy. And while I share the general concern that every rich person who ever gave a nickel to beggar has folks wanting to identify them as a WP:PHILANTHROPIST in the lede, in the case of the DeVoses, there seems to be sufficient coverage there to use it. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 17:42, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Request to amend titles in Biography

[edit]

A request to update the titles which are attributed to Betsy Devos in her biography.

Due to Betsy Devos's deep, long-standing involvement in Christian Nationalism, it is imperative that the world, especially the American public be made aware of her identity and role as a Christian Nationalist.

Similar to Paul Weyrich, and inspired by the movement he co-founded with the Council for National Policy in 1981, a movement whose goal was and, by any recent evidence, still is for Christians-only to rule in government and to replace democracy with a theocracy, Betsy has played an imperative role in the Christian Nationalist movement as a Christian Nationalist herself.

In 2001, Betsy DeVos, who later became the secretary of education under Trump, framed her advocacy for voucher programs and other school choice programs as an effort to “advance God’s kingdom.” [1]

In recent years, a super-PAC run by the American Federation for Children, which is DeVos’ school choice advocacy group, has spent millions of dollars to defeat Republican legislators who oppose private school vouchers, according to reporting by Open Secrets. A prerequisite for students and their families to attend some of the schools that currently receive voucher money is that they accept Jesus Christ as their lord and savior.

Thanks to the DeVoses, Michigan’s charter schools enjoy a virtually unregulated existence. Thanks to them, too, the center of the American automotive industry and birthplace of the modern labor movement is now a right-to-work state. They’ve funded campaigns to elect state legislators, established advocacy organizations to lobby them, buttressed their allies and primaried those they disagree with, spending at least $100 million on political campaigns and causes over the past 20 years. “The DeVos family has been far more successful not having the governor’s seat than if they had won it,” says Richard Czuba, the owner of the Glengariff Group, a bipartisan polling firm in Michigan.

Based on the evidence of her and her family's powerful and monetary role in the Christian Nationalist movement, it is a disservice to the world and to the American people who deserve to know the truth, to say that Betsy Devos is merely just a conservative Republican. SeekTruthUSA (talk) 10:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the sources you provide in this, none of them refer to her as a "Christian nationalist". While I can certainly see someone inferring that stance from those and various other things, for a claim as sensitive as this we would need strong reliable sourcing. To merely come to the conclusion ourselves would fly in the face of our goal to avoid original research. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 14:42, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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