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Kingfish Shouldn't Be on the Main Cast

I've been moving Martin Short's role as Kingfish in the additional cast and repeatedly did it several times, especially now, because Kingfish is simply just a minor character. In my opinion, Martin Short as Kingfish should rather be on the additional cast, because several cast members like Jani Zhao as Stingray and Pilou Asbæk as Kordax made more appearances than Kingfish and yet, they both are listed in the additional cast. Why would Martin Short as Kingfish be on the main cast, despite his character only making an appearance when Arthur and Orm went to his sunken citadel to locate Black Manta? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anonymy365248 (talk • contribs) 15:37, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The cast list is based on the credits... your "opinion" is not relevant. Spanneraol (talk) 15:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You mean the credits on the film? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anonymy365248 (talk • contribs) 15:47, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I have already explained in my reverts, this film's cast order is based on the main on-end credits in the film. We should not alter the billing order based on our own assumptions regarding the amount of screen time a character receives. Please see MOS:FILMCAST, which allows such orders to be presented in this manner. I would also argue that since there is more descriptive information for Kingfish than the other non-billed actors, there is no harm in retaining this order based on the main titles credits. Trailblazer101 (talk) 15:49, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How is there more descriptive information for Kingfish? Because the way I see it, he only made one appearance, while Kordax and Stingray made more appearances than him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anonymy365248 (talk • contribs) 15:53, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's based on the sources that were available and added to the article. By all means, if you can find more sources with relevant information on the other characters, you are free to add them yourself. Although, none of that means the billing order should be altered to fit one's preference. Trailblazer101 (talk) 16:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Should I change the billing order in the MOS: FILMCAST or it's automatically organized? Anonymy365248 (talk) 14:14, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, it should not be changed because MOS:FILMCAST allows us to go off of the main on-end credits, as well. The only difference between the poster billing and the on-end credits is the inclusion of Short, so I am not convinced that it ought to be changed just to move this one actor. Trailblazer101 (talk) 14:22, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Or, if you mean to change the MOS itself, that would be considered disruptive as that is a policy and not something just anyone can change without garnering a consensus, which I believe would be considered disruptive. Trailblazer101 (talk) 15:00, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Profit or loss

Hmmm, we still don't know the net profit or loss for the film. @Trailblazer101, are there any reliable sources that state how much money the studio made or lost based on the box-office performance? The Media Expert (talk) 14:41, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. I have not seen any. If you do find any, by all means add them. It may take years before any profit is calculated, so nothing is always guaranteed to be available right away. Trailblazer101 (talk) 14:51, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 17 October 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Dc films should be credited here not dc studios per James Gunn the penguin is the first dc studios release. Dc studios had nothing to do with aqua man and the lost kingdom 89.240.222.124 (talk) 19:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done This instance and usage is reliably sourced by this The Hollywood Reporter article. Just because Gunn said that does not mean this is not true. Trailblazer101 (talk) 20:16, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

don't be so rude i just making a point and plus gunn did say any news that comes out from him or safran should be the only thing we can trust.

geez can you not always this rude. all i asked was a simple question 89.240.222.124 (talk) 20:44, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry if you interpreted my comment in a way that was not intended. I merely take things with a logical approach. We have a source that does not agree with what you are suggesting. Unless you provide another reliable source that disputes this, there is no reason to believe THR is incorrect. Major trade reports and journalists can be trusted as reliable sources, we do not only need to wait for an involved party to respond to something in order for information to be added. Trailblazer101 (talk) 21:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

alright well if you apologise, we'll be even. 89.240.222.124 (talk) 21:27, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 23 November 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

i want dc studios for Aquaman and the lost kingdom changed back to dc films seeing as Gunn confirmed penguin is The Penguin is the first dc studios production film or otherwise. don't believe me? just read this. Gunn, James [@jamesgunn] (September 18, 2024). "Last night Peter and I went to the #Penguin premiere, the first DC Studios production. 92.23.235.116 (talk) 21:10, 23 November 2024 (UTC) i want dc studios for Aquaman and the lost kingdom changed back to dc films seeing as Gunn confirmed penguin is The Penguin is the first dc studios production film or otherwise. don't believe me? just read this. Gunn, James [@jamesgunn] (September 18, 2024). "Last night Peter and I went to the #Penguin premiere, the first DC Studios production.[reply]

Not done This was already addressed in the discussion above and nothing has changed since that. We have a reliable secondary source which states DC Studios is a production company for Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom. DC Studios and its people inherited the productions originated under DC Films, including The Penguin. The latter series they just oversaw more of with its filming and have its new logo in it. We cannot discount what reliable secondary sources state because an involved first-party who has something to gain from what they say says one thing is true (he did not say Lost Kingdom was not made by that studio). Trailblazer101 (talk) 00:09, 24 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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+== Kingfish Shouldn't Be on the Main Cast ==
-==Box Office==
-[[User:Aquila89|Aquila89]] made the change without any sources [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Aquaman_and_the_Lost_Kingdom&diff=prev&oldid=1192849369] and it was not the correct figure so I changed it. [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Aquaman_and_the_Lost_Kingdom&diff=prev&oldid=1193144366] [[User:Danger Ashu|<span style="border-radius:2px 0 0 2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F;color:#fff">'''Danger Ashu'''</span>]][[User talk:Danger Ashu|<span lang="zh" style="border:1px solid #1E816F;border-radius:0 2px 2px 0;padding:1px 3px;color:#000">留</span>]] 08:33, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
+I've been moving Martin Short's role as Kingfish in the additional cast and repeatedly did it several times, especially now, because Kingfish is simply just a minor character. In my opinion, Martin Short as Kingfish should rather be on the additional cast, because several cast members like Jani Zhao as Stingray and Pilou Asbæk as Kordax made more appearances than Kingfish and yet, they both are listed in the additional cast. Why would Martin Short as Kingfish be on the main cast, despite his character only making an appearance when Arthur and Orm went to his sunken citadel to locate Black Manta? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Anonymy365248|Anonymy365248]] ([[User talk:Anonymy365248#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Anonymy365248|contribs]]) </small> 15:37, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
-== Kordax Character Description ==
+:The cast list is based on the credits... your "opinion" is not relevant. [[User:Spanneraol|Spanneraol]] ([[User talk:Spanneraol|talk]]) 15:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
+::You mean the credits on the film? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Anonymy365248|Anonymy365248]] ([[User talk:Anonymy365248#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Anonymy365248|contribs]]) </small> 15:47, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
+:As I have already explained in my reverts, this film's cast order is based on the main on-end credits in the film. We should not alter the billing order based on our own assumptions regarding the amount of screen time a character receives. Please see [[MOS:FILMCAST]], which allows such orders to be presented in this manner. I would also argue that since there is more descriptive information for Kingfish than the other non-billed actors, there is no harm in retaining this order based on the main titles credits. [[User:Trailblazer101|Trailblazer101]] ([[User talk:Trailblazer101|talk]]) 15:49, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
+::How is there more descriptive information for Kingfish? Because the way I see it, he only made one appearance, while Kordax and Stingray made more appearances than him. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Anonymy365248|Anonymy365248]] ([[User talk:Anonymy365248#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Anonymy365248|contribs]]) </small> 15:53, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
+:::It's based on the sources that were available and added to the article. By all means, if you can find more sources with relevant information on the other characters, you are free to add them yourself. Although, none of that means the billing order should be altered to fit one's preference. [[User:Trailblazer101|Trailblazer101]] ([[User talk:Trailblazer101|talk]]) 16:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
+::::Should I change the billing order in the MOS: FILMCAST or it's automatically organized? [[User:Anonymy365248|Anonymy365248]] ([[User talk:Anonymy365248|talk]]) 14:14, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
+:::::No, it should not be changed because MOS:FILMCAST allows us to go off of the main on-end credits, as well. The only difference between the poster billing and the on-end credits is the inclusion of Short, so I am not convinced that it ought to be changed just to move this one actor. [[User:Trailblazer101|Trailblazer101]] ([[User talk:Trailblazer101|talk]]) 14:22, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
+:::::Or, if you mean to change the MOS itself, that would be considered disruptive as that is a policy and not something just anyone can change without garnering a consensus, which I believe would be considered disruptive. [[User:Trailblazer101|Trailblazer101]] ([[User talk:Trailblazer101|talk]]) 15:00, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
+== Profit or loss ==
-Hello,
-I’ve noticed a potential discrepancy in the description of the character Kordax in this article. The current description suggests that Kordax is a composite character of the comics’ version of Kordax and Orin I. However, upon closer examination, it appears that the film’s version of Kordax more closely aligns with the comics’ Kordax and the [https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Atlan_(Prime_Earth) Prime Earth’s Atlan, the Dead King]. In the film, Kordax is depicted as the brother of King Atlan and the undead king of the lost kingdom of Necrus. This portrayal seems to draw more from the Prime Earth’s Atlan, who was the original king of Atlantis that sunk the city in grief and madness after his family was murdered by his brother Orin and later emerged as an undead adversary of Aquaman's. The confusion might stem, I think, from the complex nature of the characters’ histories and relationships in the comics. The Prime Earth continuity depicts Orin I as the ancestor of Aquaman and Orm, which diverges from the more common depiction of Atlan in that role, which is the depiction went with in these movies. I believe this is worth discussing and possibly revising for accuracy. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. [[User:Red Shogun412|RedMethyst]] ([[User talk:Red Shogun412|talk]]) 02:26, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
+Hmmm, we still don't know the net profit or loss for the film. @[[User:Trailblazer101|Trailblazer101]], are there any reliable sources that state how much money the studio made or lost based on the box-office performance? [[User:The Media Expert|The Media Expert]] ([[User talk:The Media Expert|talk]]) 14:41, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
-:@[[User:Red Shogun412|Red Shogun412]] Ah, that is good to know. Thank you for the information, Red! I had added the Orin bit as part of the composite character line per this [https://screenrant.com/aquaman-and-the-lost-kingdom-movie-easter-eggs-references/ Screen Rant] article which said "{{tq|Revealed by Orm to be the cursed brother of King Atlan, this confirms that the DCEU's Kordax is different from the comics' version. On the page, Kordax is a separate Aquaman villain, while Atlan's brother is named Orin.}}" I'll look into if there are any better sources that pinpoint to the more accurate comics' versions and better reflect these differing versions and the basis of this version. Again, thank you for bringing this up to our attention. [[User:Trailblazer101|Trailblazer101]] ([[User talk:Trailblazer101|talk]]) 02:48, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
-::Yeah, it makes sense why the information got added the way it did based off of that. My real observation/speculation is that the roles of Atlan and Orin were swapped for the film(s), with DCEU Atlan replacing comics Orin as king of Atlantis while DCEU Kordax (renamed from Orin) replaces comics Atlan as the Dead King and brother of the Atlantean king. It might just be a little bit of reaching on my end, but I nonetheless think it is a plausible narrative. So, again, thank you for hearing me out. [[User:Red Shogun412|RedMethyst]] ([[User talk:Red Shogun412|talk]]) 03:06, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
+:I don't know. I have not seen any. If you do find any, by all means add them. It may take years before any profit is calculated, so nothing is always guaranteed to be available right away. [[User:Trailblazer101|Trailblazer101]] ([[User talk:Trailblazer101|talk]]) 14:51, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
-== Negative reviews??? ==
+== Semi-protected edit request on 17 October 2024 ==
-How come Haunted Mansion and most movies with Rotten Tomatoes or Metascore in "40s" are mixed but this one is negative? [[User:Anant-morgan|Anant-morgan]] ([[User talk:Anant-morgan|talk]]) 02:48, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
+{{edit semi-protected|Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom|answered=yes}}
-:[[WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS]] applies. Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic are not the sole determinators of critic reviews. We go by what reliable sources say, and it is generally sourced that this film received mostly negative reviews, though some positives are noted in the Reception section of the article, as well. Just because other films' metrics are considered one thing does not mean the same would apply to another. [[User:Trailblazer101|Trailblazer101]] ([[User talk:Trailblazer101|talk]]) 04:33, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
+Dc films should be credited here not dc studios per James Gunn the penguin is the first dc studios release. Dc studios had nothing to do with aqua man and the lost kingdom [[Special:Contributions/89.240.222.124|89.240.222.124]] ([[User talk:89.240.222.124|talk]]) 19:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
+:{{Not done}} This instance and usage is reliably sourced by [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/aquaman-2-china-release-date-superhero-fatigue-1235667758/ this ''The Hollywood Reporter'' article]. Just because Gunn said that does not mean this is not true. [[User:Trailblazer101|Trailblazer101]] ([[User talk:Trailblazer101|talk]]) 20:16, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
+::don't be so rude i just making a point and plus gunn did say any news that comes out from him or safran should be the only thing we can trust.
+::geez can you not always this rude. all i asked was a simple question  [[Special:Contributions/89.240.222.124|89.240.222.124]] ([[User talk:89.240.222.124|talk]]) 20:44, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
+:::Sorry if you interpreted my comment in a way that was not intended. I merely take things with a logical approach. We have a source that does not agree with what you are suggesting. Unless you provide another reliable source that disputes this, there is no reason to believe ''THR'' is incorrect. Major trade reports and journalists can be trusted as reliable sources, we do not only need to wait for an involved party to respond to something in order for information to be added. [[User:Trailblazer101|Trailblazer101]] ([[User talk:Trailblazer101|talk]]) 21:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
+::::alright well if you apologise, we'll be even.  [[Special:Contributions/89.240.222.124|89.240.222.124]] ([[User talk:89.240.222.124|talk]]) 21:27, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
+== Semi-protected edit request on 23 November 2024 ==
-== Box office performance ==
+{{edit semi-protected|Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom|answered=yes}}
-Could you please find reliable sources about whether the film succeeded or underperformed at the box office? [[User:The Media Expert|The Media Expert]] ([[User talk:The Media Expert|talk]]) 11:30, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
+i want dc studios for Aquaman and the lost kingdom changed back to dc films seeing as Gunn confirmed penguin is The Penguin is the first dc studios production film or otherwise. don't believe me? just read this. Gunn, James [@jamesgunn] (September 18, 2024). "Last night Peter and I went to the #Penguin premiere, the first DC Studios production''. [[Special:Contributions/92.23.235.116|92.23.235.116]] ([[User talk:92.23.235.116|talk]]) 21:10, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
-:Why? The numbers are in the article and people can make up their own minds on that. [[User:Spanneraol|Spanneraol]] ([[User talk:Spanneraol|talk]]) 12:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
+i want dc studios for Aquaman and the lost kingdom changed back to dc films seeing as Gunn confirmed penguin is The Penguin is the first dc studios production film or otherwise. don't believe me? just read this. Gunn, James [@jamesgunn] (September 18, 2024). "Last night Peter and I went to the #Penguin premiere, the first DC Studios production''.
-:We have sources discussing what a potential break even point would be. We don't {{em|need}} to include whether it succeeded or not. I urge you to find sources yourself rather than asking other editors to do so for you. Talk discussions are also not just for making any discussions asking others to do things for you. If you come back with reliable sources discussing its performance, than we could review them in line with [[MOS:ACCLAIMED]]. Without sources, there is not much we can work with here. [[User:Trailblazer101|Trailblazer101]] ([[User talk:Trailblazer101|talk]]) 15:47, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
-::Look at this source, it states that the theatrical revenue was higher on releases including this movie, but lower than anticipated.<ref>{{Cite web |last=Goldsmith |first=Jill |date=2024-02-23 |title=Warner Bros. Discovery Q4 Hit By Soft Advertising, Strike Impact; "We Have An Attack Plan For 2024" – David Zaslav |url=https://deadline.com/2024/02/warner-bros-discovery-q4-earnings-soft-advertising-strike-impact-1235835110/ |access-date=2024-03-31 |website=Deadline |language=en-US}}</ref> [[User:The Media Expert|The Media Expert]] ([[User talk:The Media Expert|talk]]) 14:47, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
-:::"{{Tq|Theatrical revenue was higher on more releases, including ''Aquaman And The Lost Kingdom'' but lower than anticipated even as analysts had been lowering their studio forecasts.}}" That still doesn't state it underperformed or was a success either way. We'll need to wait for more analytical sources on the box office, though I have included the information for what it explicitly states. [[User:Trailblazer101|Trailblazer101]] ([[User talk:Trailblazer101|talk]]) 02:02, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
-{{Reflist-talk}}
+:{{Not done}} This was already addressed in the discussion above and nothing has changed since that. We have a reliable secondary source which states DC Studios is a production company for ''Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom''. DC Studios and its people inherited the productions originated under DC Films, including ''The Penguin''. The latter series they just oversaw more of with its filming and have its new logo in it. We cannot discount what reliable secondary sources state because an involved first-party who has something to gain from what they say says one thing is true (he did not say ''Lost Kingdom'' was not made by that studio). [[User:Trailblazer101|Trailblazer101]] ([[User talk:Trailblazer101|talk]]) 00:09, 24 November 2024 (UTC)
-== Kingfish Shouldn't Be on the Main Cast ==
-I've been moving Martin Short's role as Kingfish in the additional cast and repeatedly did it several times, especially now, because Kingfish is simply just a minor character. In my opinion, Kingfish should rather be on the additional cast, because several cast members like Jani Zhao as Stingray and Pilou Asbæk as Kordax made more appearances than Kingfish and yet, they both are listed in the additional cast. Why would Martin Short's role as Kingfish be on the main cast, despite his character only making an appearance when Arthur and Orm went to his sunken citadel to locate Black Manta? Anonymous ([[User talk:Anonymy365248|talk]]) 15:37, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
-:The cast list is based on the credits... your "opinion" is not relevant. [[User:Spanneraol|Spanneraol]] ([[User talk:Spanneraol|talk]]) 15:44, 6 June 2024 (UTC)