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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Wind turbine was copied or moved into Wind power with this edit on 17 August 2021. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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Should non-electricity be in History section?

@Ita140188 You tagged because “The article seems to be exclusively about producing electricity from wind power, but then history section talks about windmills and sails” so you think that should be removed from history? Or if not what do you suggest? Chidgk1 (talk) 14:11, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps it should be removed from history and the page on history of wind power would explain it only. More can be included on the development of the electricity producing wind turbine over time and what companies were involved on the Wind Power page history section. Also, should the definition be revised to Wind Power is the process of generating energy from the wind as apposed to useful work? (the short description of the article is about producing electricity) Just my thoughts. Knowledgegatherer23 (talk) 00:10, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(or people involved) Knowledgegatherer23 (talk) 00:28, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think we can keep the information about historical use of wind power, but we need to be explicit from the lead that this article only deals with electricity production. The history section should then reflect this, briefly talking about pre-electricity uses but then focusing on the history of wind power for electricity production (which is mostly what it already does actually) --Ita140188 (talk) 09:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have excerpted - feel free to revert and solve the problem your way if you prefer Chidgk1 (talk) 15:31, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No legitimate source for the claim that Hammurabi had a plan to use wind power

I was interested in the information that Hammurabi might have used wind power and tried to find more details only to discover that every reference I found about this (on Wikipedia or otherwise) ultimately cites the 1976 book The Generation of electricity by wind power by E. Golding which has a single throwaway line about it and which itself only cites The Story of the Rotor by Anton Flettner from 1926, which has a single throwaway line with no source whatsoever.

the Golding book: https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Generation_of_Electricity_by_Wind_Po/lRojAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Hammurabi

the Flettner book: https://books.google.com/books?id=W99NAAAAMAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&vq=hammurabi&dq=flettner%20the%20story%20of%20the%20rotor&pg=PA95#v=snippet&q=hammurabi&f=false

I have only just created an account to post this and can't edit the page myself since it's protected, but it seems to me that this information has no real source and should be removed? If so can someone with access remove it? Minovi (talk) 15:13, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Economics and policy sections seem incomplete

In the current version, the 'Economics' section is very limited. It mentions costs but fails to mention the value of the electricity generated by wind power plant. I suggest adding a few sentences and linking to the 'Merit Order' page, which describes the value problem of variable renewable energy in detail.

Likewise, the content of the 'Central Government' subsection under 'Politics' is very limited and I also found it misleading. The references are almost exclusively referring to offshore wind. The first sentence seem to indicate that new installations are "generally subsidy free", but I believe this refer to offshore wind power only. I suggest rewriting this section completely, shift focus to both onshore and offshore wind power, and broaden the geographical scope. Tove-88 (talk) 11:21, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 6 July 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Economcis = Economics 2603:8000:D300:3650:B089:CD81:58FB:92D (talk) 07:39, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. 💜 melecie talk - 07:44, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done... - Adolphus79 (talk) 08:12, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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+== Should non-electricity be in History section? ==
-==Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment==
-[[File:Sciences humaines.svg|40px]] This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available [[Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/Arts_and_Science/Intro_to_Env_Sustainability_(Spring_2018)|on the course page]].  Peer reviewers: [[User:Apatnosh|Apatnosh]].
-{{small|Above undated message substituted from [[Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment]] by [[User:PrimeBOT|PrimeBOT]] ([[User talk:PrimeBOT|talk]]) 13:02, 17 January 2022 (UTC)}}
-== habitat loss in lead ==
-Should we remove ", which can lead to "industrialization of the countryside"[5] and habitat loss.[4]" from the lead because:
-) Most new European wind power is far offshore I think - cite 5 seems re Europe mainly
-) Offshore windpower creates habitat with foundations as far as I know. So there ought to be studies cited in the body text estimating whether there is a net loss or gain of habitat I think. After that it could be summarized in the lead if significant
-[[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 18:39, 16 November 2021 (UTC)
-{{u|Asarlaí}} OK I accept your point that the sentence refers to onshore. But is habitat loss significant compared to other causes of habitat loss? [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 11:36, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
+@[[User:Ita140188|Ita140188]] You tagged because “The article seems to be exclusively about producing electricity from wind power, but then history section talks about windmills and sails” so you think that should be removed from history? Or if not what do you suggest? [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 14:11, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
-By all means, delete any reference to blatant existing & future ruination of scenery, both inland and looking out from ocean shores (30+ mile visibility offsets are often impractical). It's all about selling these huge machines as "green" when they're clearly industrial & invasive. Wind turbines also show no real evidence of flattening the global CO2 curve (fossil fuels build them, plus Jevons paradox when people think they can waste "clean" electricity). https://falseprogress.home.blog/2016/08/29/wind-turbines-desecrate-nature/  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/73.25.214.24|73.25.214.24]] ([[User talk:73.25.214.24#top|talk]]) 00:18, 12 January 2022 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+:Perhaps it should be removed from history and the page on [[history of wind power]] would explain it only. More can be included on the development of the electricity producing wind turbine over time and what companies were involved on the Wind Power page history section. Also, should the definition be revised to Wind Power is the process of generating energy from the wind as apposed to useful work? (the short description of the article is about producing electricity) Just my thoughts. [[User:Knowledgegatherer23|Knowledgegatherer23]] ([[User talk:Knowledgegatherer23|talk]]) 00:10, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
-== It's fair to say, they can cause premature death in PEOPLE. ==
+::(or people involved) [[User:Knowledgegatherer23|Knowledgegatherer23]] ([[User talk:Knowledgegatherer23|talk]]) 00:28, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
+:I think we can keep the information about historical use of wind power, but we need to be explicit from the lead that this article only deals with electricity production. The history section should then reflect this, briefly talking about pre-electricity uses but then focusing on the history of wind power for electricity production (which is mostly what it already does actually) --[[User:Ita140188|Ita140188]] ([[User talk:Ita140188|talk]]) 09:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
-At least these GIANT turbines! Should as this is the case here NOT AND NEVER combined with:
+::I have excerpted - feel free to revert and solve the problem your way if you prefer [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 15:31, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
-* strict military grade RF devices of any kind and design
-* MASERs (microwaves-operated LASERs, as a LASER uses light, a MASER uses microwaves/RF!)
-* Smart meters
-* illegal antenna setups of any kind
+== No legitimate source for the claim that Hammurabi had a plan to use wind power ==
-If else wind power usage causes premature death in people, I do not know!
-But the 5G in Gateshead was ENSURED to cause it. Reasons why:
-* illegal antenna designs for LED street lights 5G (maybe not the rest?!)
-* 450 Nanometers frequency in use in the lamp light part (this frequency can cause eye cancer in people! and prostate cancer in the males!)
---[[Special:Contributions/2001:9E8:1211:E100:BCF8:8137:B478:513E|2001:9E8:1211:E100:BCF8:8137:B478:513E]] ([[User talk:2001:9E8:1211:E100:BCF8:8137:B478:513E|talk]]) 13:57, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
+I was interested in the information that Hammurabi might have used wind power and tried to find more details only to discover that every reference I found about this (on Wikipedia or otherwise) ultimately cites the 1976 book ''The Generation of electricity by wind power'' by E. Golding which has a single throwaway line about it and which itself only cites ''The Story of the Rotor'' by Anton Flettner from 1926, which has a single throwaway line with no source whatsoever.
-== Should the "Impact on environment and landscape" section be moved to lead of main article and excerpted back here? ==
+the Golding book:
-That would have the advantage it would be less work to keep up to date I guess - for example I might trim it slightly and add a couple of sentences specifically about offshore  [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 10:53, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
+https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Generation_of_Electricity_by_Wind_Po/lRojAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=Hammurabi
+the Flettner book:
-:I disagree. I don't see anything in the section that needs constantly updated? I also disagree that the section needs trimmed. It's already one of the shortest in the article and is concise, relevant and well-sourced. So it's already a snippet of the main article, which is much longer. ~[[User:Asarlaí|Asarlaí]] 13:47, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
+https://books.google.com/books?id=W99NAAAAMAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&vq=hammurabi&dq=flettner%20the%20story%20of%20the%20rotor&pg=PA95#v=snippet&q=hammurabi&f=false
-::Ah I did not mean to make it shorter in the long run but to trim a bit to add new info. Originally the info was in 3 places but I recently combined the lead of the main article with [[Environmental_impact_of_electricity_generation#Wind_power]] As offshore wind power is growing so fast nowadays I feel the emphasis should be a little more on the offshore to keep it relevant - for example presumably there will be research on whether floating is more environmentally friendly than concrete-based which can first be detailed in the body of the main article and then summarized in the lead. So I think it would be good for those kind of updates to automatically come through here. [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 15:10, 20 October 2022 (UTC)
-:::I welcome more info being added, but I don't think info needs to be removed first - the ''numbers'' could be trimmed however. Offshore wind power might be growing, but the article says there is much more on-land wind power right now, so we should focus slightly more on that. ~[[User:Asarlaí|Asarlaí]] 08:55, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
+I have only just created an account to post this and can't edit the page myself since it's protected, but it seems to me that this information has no real source and should be removed? If so can someone with access remove it? [[User:Minovi|Minovi]] ([[User talk:Minovi|talk]]) 15:13, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
-Anyone else got an opinion for or against excerpting? [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 13:05, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
+== Economics and policy sections seem incomplete ==
-{{u|Asarlaí}} Not sure if your "I disagree" above is about excerpting or changing the content. I just noticed the content is also in [[Wind_farm#Impact_on_environment_and_landscape]] - so are you and others now in favor or opposed to excerpting? [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 06:52, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
+In the current version, the 'Economics' section is very limited. It mentions costs but fails to mention the value of the electricity generated by wind power plant. I suggest adding a few sentences and linking to the 'Merit Order' page, which describes the value problem of variable renewable energy in detail.
-I see from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere?target=Environmental+impact+of+wind+power&namespace=&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1 that {{u|Johnfos}} did the first of the 4 excerpts back in 2011 - anyone else got any thoughts on whether it should also be excerpted here? [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 15:08, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
+Likewise, the content of the 'Central Government' subsection under 'Politics' is very limited and I also found it misleading. The references are almost exclusively referring to offshore wind. The first sentence seem to indicate that new installations are "generally subsidy free", but I believe this refer to offshore wind power only. I suggest rewriting this section completely, shift focus to both onshore and offshore wind power, and broaden the geographical scope. [[User:Tove-88|Tove-88]] ([[User talk:Tove-88|talk]]) 11:21, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
-:moved to the lead of the main article and excerpted back here - as the lead of the main article is now excerpted to 5 articles including this one it should be easier to keep up to date there rather than in the 5 articles [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 13:54, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
+== Semi-protected edit request on 6 July 2024 ==
-Hello {{u|Pyrrho the Skipper}} - above is the discussion - would you like me to explain in more detail? [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 20:23, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
+{{edit semi-protected|Wind power|answered=yes}}
-:Okay thanks. I don't see a consensus for your cuts, though? [[User:Pyrrho the Skipper|Pyrrho the Skipper]] ([[User talk:Pyrrho the Skipper|talk]]) 20:59, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
+Economcis = Economics [[Special:Contributions/2603:8000:D300:3650:B089:CD81:58FB:92D|2603:8000:D300:3650:B089:CD81:58FB:92D]] ([[User talk:2603:8000:D300:3650:B089:CD81:58FB:92D|talk]]) 07:39, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
-::I don't intend to cut anything - the idea is to avoid having to do future updates in so many different places.  [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 10:05, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
+:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a [[WP:EDITXY|"change X to Y" format]] and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> &#128156; <span style="border-radius:4px;background:#edf">&nbsp;[[User:Melecie|<span style="color:#471a7a">'''mel'''ecie</span>]]&nbsp;</span> [[User talk:Melecie|<span style="color:#471a7a">talk</span>]] - 07:44, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
+:[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Wind_power&diff=prev&oldid=1232911335 Done]... - [[User:Adolphus79|Adolphus79]] ([[User talk:Adolphus79|talk]]) 08:12, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
-:I think we should stop using excerpts for mainspace pages. It's generally bad practice and lowers the quality of articles. So I am definitely against this change --[[User:Ita140188|Ita140188]] ([[User talk:Ita140188|talk]]) 08:23, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
-::I am guessing that way back in the 2000s (perhaps before the "excerpt" template was created) an enthusiastic editor duplicated this info in several places.
-::The excerpting of this info was started back in 2011 by @[[User:Johnfos|Johnfos]] and I think he did right. I am not sure how many duplications of the info there were in his time but when I started not long ago there were 5 or 6. Now it is down to 2 as far as I know.
-::I find it tedious to try and keep the info up to date in 2 different places and I suspect future editors will too. So I feel that this excerpt would increase the quality of the articles as I and hopefully others will be more motivated to keep the info up to date. For example I added a sentence about underwater noise to the lead of the main article and I am not sure I can be bothered to repeat that edit here or keep them both up to date in future.  [[User:Chidgk1|Chidgk1]] ([[User talk:Chidgk1|talk]]) 10:18, 4 November 2022 (UTC)