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== Suicide in the lead again ==
== Show the Artwork for the Dark Alliance Series ==


It was "controversial" and "removed" by the paper. That makes it noteworthy, and it should be included in this Article. His paper might have been censored, but Wikipedia is not, and the absence of this graphic is noticeable, particularly given the circumstances and rumors of his death.
The issue of how to refer to Webb's death has come up yet again. The lead was changed to add the following sentence: On December 10, 2004, Webb was found dead in his apartment shoot twice in the head. His death was ruled a suicide.


It was not censored or controversial because it was false, it was removed because it was TRUE. It should not also be absent from this Article, and for the same reason.
Exactly this sort of change was the subject of a long discussion above. Webb's death was a suicide. The fact that he shot himself in the face twice is already referenced in the article two times: in the infobox, and in the article under the section on Webb's death. Some editors feel this is not enough, and that it should be mentioned a third time, as prominently as possible, preferably in the lead. This is undue weight, and I've reverted such changes more than once. If you disagree, please discuss your concerns here first, rather than just adding the same disputed content again. And again... [[User:Rgr09|Rgr09]] ([[User talk:Rgr09|talk]]) 22:54, 21 May 2018 (UTC)


''"The website artwork showed the silhouette of a man smoking a crack pipe superimposed over the CIA seal."''
:I seriously doubt that a person with alleged suicide intention, is capable of shooting hisself twice in the face. Please reopen this case for the sake of justice and his next of kin and friends. Nicolás van Boxtel - Spain. [[Special:Contributions/95.129.252.18|95.129.252.18]] ([[User talk:95.129.252.18|talk]]) 18:38, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
"death was a suicide" and "was ruled a suicide" is a huge difference. Either it was proven a suicide, as in the lead, or it "was ruled a suicide" as written in the Death section. Which is it going to be? --Hoffmansk 16:39, 23 May 2018 (UTC) <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Hoffmansk|Hoffmansk]] ([[User talk:Hoffmansk#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Hoffmansk|contribs]]) </small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:What do you feel is the difference between these two? I am especially unclear what you mean by "proven a suicide." The lead does not use the phrase "proven", but it does take Webb's death to be a suicide. I do not see how this contradicts the description in the Death section. [[User:Rgr09|Rgr09]] ([[User talk:Rgr09|talk]]) 21:40, 23 May 2018 (UTC)
:The people who want to keep adding this "ruled a suicide" business to the lead are doing it in a calculated attempt to imply a murder. If it was ruled a suicide.....that's enough for the lead. The details of his death are given in the main body.[[User:Rja13ww33|Rja13ww33]] ([[User talk:Rja13ww33|talk]]) 22:17, 23 May 2018 (UTC)


[[Special:Contributions/2603:8081:3A00:414A:3C79:55E:B074:23B7|2603:8081:3A00:414A:3C79:55E:B074:23B7]] ([[User talk:2603:8081:3A00:414A:3C79:55E:B074:23B7|talk]]) 22:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
Ruled a suicide by a coroner, as if coroners are paragons of uncorruptible virtue. can't be threatened, don't have political proclivities.Webb was shot twice in the head, and the coroner said it's happened before.https://www.editorandpublisher.com/news/gary-webb-s-death-confirmed-as-suicide/. Two head taps is a signature of a professional hit, full stop period.There was another reporter who ran afoul of the CIA and died mysteriously while working on an expose of the CIA.. [[Michael Hastings (journalist)]]: "he drove a brand new Mercedes C250 coupe. The vehicle hit a tree at high speed, burst into flames and the engine was launched 100 feet down the street. One witness compared the sound coming from the blast to a bomb explosion. The impact shook nearby houses. Mercedez-Benz said their cars/software “couldn’t malfunction as such” and offered to make a complete “autopsy” of the car/computer."https://truthfeed.com/flashback-reporter-killed-in-freak-car-crash-while-working-on-cia-expose/55719/. So it was reported that his family thinks it was an accident,and that is definitive?


:Not sure if it is copyrighted or not....but if not, it may be worth including.[[User:Rja13ww33|Rja13ww33]] ([[User talk:Rja13ww33|talk]]) 23:10, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
The FBI denied having an investigation open on Michael Hastings, and that was subsequently proven to be a lie.


== Complete Absence of Any "Lede" ==
And we are to believe that the CIA, Think Tanks, Corporations, Political Parties,Foreign governments, Religious organizations, etc do not have personnel (paid or unpaid) monitoring social media outlets and public information sites such as WP posting and discrediting adverse information. Anyone interested in a bridge?[[User:Oldperson|Oldperson]] ([[User talk:Oldperson|talk]]) 18:29, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
:This is not a place for your speculations. RS put his death as suicide and RS say multiple gunshot suicides are not uncommon. If you don't stop posting these attacks about the supposed motivations of other posters here.....you will be reported.[[User:Rja13ww33|Rja13ww33]] ([[User talk:Rja13ww33|talk]]) 18:48, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
:Was there a suicide note? Did any of his friends and family say that he mentioned to them that he was thinking of committing suicide? Was he seeing a therapist or a priest or something? [[User:Simanos|Simanos]] ([[User talk:Simanos|talk]]) 20:54, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
::Yes he left several notes in fact. According to the LA Times: <i>"He typed out four lengthy suicide notes and put them in the mail to family members. He placed his prearranged cremation certificate and Social Security card on the kitchen counter of his suburban Sacramento home. He put the keys to his cars and motorcycles in an envelope addressed to his oldest son."</i>[[User:Rja13ww33|Rja13ww33]] ([[User talk:Rja13ww33|talk]]) 00:13, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
Could we change it to say, "committed suicide by shooting himself in the head twice"? [[Special:Contributions/67.155.253.113|67.155.253.113]] ([[User talk:67.155.253.113|talk]]) 23:34, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
:Webb's suicide is clearly described in the article. He raised the gun to the side of his head, pointing at his ear. The angle was such that the bullet went through his face and came out his cheek. This was a non-fatal wound. He shot himself again and the coroner found that the second shot hit an artery and he bled to death. The article should not give misleading descriptions of Webb's injuries. All this talk about "double-taps" and Webb being shot in the back of the head is false. [[User:Rgr09|Rgr09]] ([[User talk:Rgr09|talk]]) 02:55, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
::If it is necessary to clarify a consensus, I agree with Rgr09. Webb's suicide was unusual in the sense that most suicide's take only one shot, but the explanation for his death is definitive. There is no evidence that he was murdered or that there was a conspiracy to murder him, so we do float information to imply those things. -[[User:Location|Location]] ([[User talk:Location|talk]]) 14:53, 5 June 2020 (UTC)


I may be wrong, but as a years-long and frequent User of Wikipedia, my understanding of the function of the Lede is to provide a brief overview of the entire Article, so as to "invite the Reader to continue reading the Article", and for the most part, most Articles follow this format and function, however this Article does not, for. some. reason. Noticing patterns, and the absence thereof, is a thing.
== References in sections CIA report and House committee report ==


Webb supposedly committed suicide, by shooting himself in the head, twice. Twice.
The references "Hitz, 'Scope of investigation,'" "Hitz, Vol. 1, 'Conclusions.'" and "'Report on Alleged Involvement: Findings' 43" do not link to anything. Apparently this text is available online [https://archive.org/details/WatersCIAContraReportExcerpt/allegationsofcia00unit/ here]. Is there no way to link to the pages referenced? I read somewhere that it is possible to link directly to specific pages of books at archive.org or openlibrary.org but I'm not sure how to do that. -- <span style="text-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em black">[[User:Ubh|Ubh]]</span> <small><nowiki>[</nowiki>[[User talk:Ubh|talk...]] [[Special:Contributions/Ubh|contribs...]]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 10:35, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
:Seems like I was able to do it once with archive.org. I will look back and see if I can find when/how I did it. (It was in another article.)[[User:Rja13ww33|Rja13ww33]] ([[User talk:Rja13ww33|talk]]) 16:48, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
::The first two cites UBH gives are from the CIA IG's report, volume 2 (The Contra Story). The CIA website has moved the location of this report several times in the last 7 years or so. I suggest that the article link to the FAS copy, located at https://irp.fas.org/cia/product/cocaine2/contents.html. It is an accurate copy, it hasn't ever moved, and it retains the paragraph numbering which is needed to find stuff in the report; this was missing in the CIA version when I downloaded it seven years ago. Note that the IG report does not use page numbering, it uses paragraph numbering.
::The document UBH has linked to at archive.org is indeed labeled as coming from the "PERMANENT SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES", but a glance at the title page will show you that this is in fact the Senate hearings on the Mercury News series, not the HPSCI report. There are two files at this link, the HPSCI report is the second file. Not sure how to get it to display in the archive.org pdf viewer. Sorry I don't have time to fix the links myself. [[User:Rgr09|Rgr09]] ([[User talk:Rgr09|talk]]) 19:59, 10 August 2022 (UTC)


You'd think that a Wikipedia Article that follows standard format and protocols would put that fact about his life (and death) prominently in the Lede, and yet for. some. reason. this Article does NOT. I wonder to what extent the CIA is involved in the editing of Wikipedia Articles, such as this one.[[Special:Contributions/70.94.140.138|70.94.140.138]] ([[User talk:70.94.140.138|talk]]) 13:43, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
== Request for edit ==

Please can somebody edit the short introduction? I doubt it should say "American investigative journalist (1955–2004) 7’4” 568 lbs he wears size 25 shoes". The latter part seems like vandalism. I'd do it myself but I don't know how. Thank you. [[User:Sideriver84|Sideriver84]] ([[User talk:Sideriver84|talk]]) 01:45, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
:If your issue is the fact we don't mention the double shot suicide in the LEAD....I don't see the problem. The LEAD rarely rehashes every detail in the article. We go into that later on within the article.[[User:Rja13ww33|Rja13ww33]] ([[User talk:Rja13ww33|talk]]) 18:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 18:18, 2 December 2024

Show the Artwork for the Dark Alliance Series

[edit]

It was "controversial" and "removed" by the paper. That makes it noteworthy, and it should be included in this Article. His paper might have been censored, but Wikipedia is not, and the absence of this graphic is noticeable, particularly given the circumstances and rumors of his death.

It was not censored or controversial because it was false, it was removed because it was TRUE. It should not also be absent from this Article, and for the same reason.

"The website artwork showed the silhouette of a man smoking a crack pipe superimposed over the CIA seal."

2603:8081:3A00:414A:3C79:55E:B074:23B7 (talk) 22:39, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure if it is copyrighted or not....but if not, it may be worth including.Rja13ww33 (talk) 23:10, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Complete Absence of Any "Lede"

[edit]

I may be wrong, but as a years-long and frequent User of Wikipedia, my understanding of the function of the Lede is to provide a brief overview of the entire Article, so as to "invite the Reader to continue reading the Article", and for the most part, most Articles follow this format and function, however this Article does not, for. some. reason. Noticing patterns, and the absence thereof, is a thing.

Webb supposedly committed suicide, by shooting himself in the head, twice. Twice.

You'd think that a Wikipedia Article that follows standard format and protocols would put that fact about his life (and death) prominently in the Lede, and yet for. some. reason. this Article does NOT. I wonder to what extent the CIA is involved in the editing of Wikipedia Articles, such as this one.70.94.140.138 (talk) 13:43, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If your issue is the fact we don't mention the double shot suicide in the LEAD....I don't see the problem. The LEAD rarely rehashes every detail in the article. We go into that later on within the article.Rja13ww33 (talk) 18:18, 2 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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