Talk:Abdullah Öcalan: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Latest revision as of 13:38, 5 December 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Abdullah Öcalan article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2: 6 months

WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS

The article Abdullah Öcalan, along with other pages relating to Kurds and Kurdistan, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are:

Only extended-confirmed editors may make edits related to the topic area, though editors who are not extended-confirmed may post constructive comments and make edit requests related to articles within the topic area on article talk pages. Should disruption occur on article talk pages, administrators may take enforcement actions against disruptive editors and/or apply page protection on article talk pages. However, non-extended-confirmed editors may not make edits to internal project discussions related to the topic area, even on article talk pages. Internal project discussions include, but are not limited to, Articles for deletion nominations, WikiProjects, requests for comment, requested moves, and noticeboard discussions.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.

Remedy instructions and exemptions
Enforcement procedures: Violations of any restrictions and other conduct issues should be reported to the administrators' incidents noticeboard. Editors who violate any listed restrictions may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense. An editor must be aware before they can be sanctioned.

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

This page is not a forum for general discussion about Abdullah Öcalan. Any such comments may be removed or refactored. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about Abdullah Öcalan at the Reference desk.

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on February 15, 2015, February 15, 2019, and February 15, 2024.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Kurdistan High‑importance

	Kurdistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Kurdistan, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Kurdistan on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.KurdistanWikipedia:WikiProject KurdistanTemplate:WikiProject KurdistanKurdistan
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Turkey High‑importance

	Turkey portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Socialism Low‑importance

	Socialism portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of socialism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Archives

Archive 1

Archive 2

This page has archives. Sections older than 180 days may be automatically archived by when more than 3 sections are present.

Proposed merge of Nationalism of Abdullah Öcalan into Abdullah Öcalan

Why is this content split? This content can be adequately covered within the parent biography given the secondary sources provided. czar 12:01, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Czar: It appears to duplicate a lot of the scope from democratic confederalism. In fact, it seems like it lifted a lot of the text in the first few paragraphs from there, albeit slightly rewritten. I'd say democratic confederalism is probably a better target for merging, if it's truly necessary. --Grnrchst (talk) 12:54, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good czar 15:55, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirected to Democratic confederalism czar 01:51, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 August 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The PKK is internationally recognised as a terrorist organisation, not simply a militant organisation. AverageTurk (talk) 18:00, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done Cullen328 (talk) 18:03, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. Cullen328 (talk) 18:04, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Confessed war criminal and a drug lord

please remember that this topic is restricted to extended confirmed editors.

PKK under his leasership is responsible for nearly 5k civilian deaths, raids on villages, thousands of kidnappings and executions (especially Kurd villagers who were not aiding them), attacks on kindergartens and primary schools, suicide bombings, human trafficking (especially high school age youth at rural areas getting forced to join their forces), drug trafficking (major income source) and a lot of other crimes committed against international human rights.

All of them were confessed by himself. After he got arrested he said he didn’t wanted to do all that but he had a lot of statements supporting these activities back then.

PKK can not represent Kurdish people or Kurdish identity. Their only difference from other Middle East based terrorist organizations such as IS or Al-Qaeda is their self-claimed ideologic orientation. So considering PKK as representatives of Kurd population is the same foolishness with considering IS as representatives of all Muslims in the world.

A suitable head description:

Abdullah Öcalan (/ˈoʊdʒəlɑːn/ OH-jə-lahn;Turkish: [œdʒaɫan]; born 4 April 1949), also known as Apo (short for Abdullah in Turkish; Kurdish for "uncle"), is a political prisoner(?), war criminal, drug lord and founding member of the militant Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK). Yarluq20 (talk) 08:54, 24 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The PKK, under the leadership of Abdullah Öcalan, fought against Turkey, which is responsible for nearly 40,000 civilian deaths, raids on villages, thousands of kidnappings, and executions, particularly of Kurdish villagers who did not even know anything about the PKK struggle against the Turkish regime. Innocent Kurds have been subjected to imprisoned and torture, bombings of villages who refuse to cooperate with Turkish intelligence , human trafficking, and drug trafficking (a major source of income), for those who spy in Turkish military high-ranking positions and numerous other crimes against international human rights.

All of these crimes were confessed by hand, fool-brave retired ex-military officers. After their retirement,they stated that they did not want to commit these acts but that they had numerous statements supporting them at the time.

The PKK represents the Kurdish people and Kurdish identity. The PKK can’t be categorised like other Middle East-based terrorist organizations such as ISIS or Al-Qaeda, which is their self-proclaimed ideological orientation. Therefore, not considering the PKK as representatives of the Kurdish population is akin to considering ISIS as representatives of all Muslims in the world.

A suitable head description:

Abdullah Öcalan, born on April 4, 1949, is a political prisoner, freedom fighter , and founding member of the militant Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK). In Turkish, Apo is a short form of Abdullah, which means “uncle” in Kurdish. 86.27.131.27 (talk) 22:31, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nice projection. About the stuff occurred after 80 coup d’etat; these torturing of prisoners things are not specific to Kurds, literally every far-right and far-left organization member got prisoned and tortured inside or got executed because of their very own criminal activities. I know it very well that JİTEM, which was supposed to fight with terrorism, became a corrupted inter-state faction started to conduct illegal activities. 40.000 civilian deaths? Who told you this? Rojava Information Ministry? That number is PKK armed casualties not civilians (if you also dont count these guys with automatic rifles as civilians lol) Lets imagine everything you said is true, how all of these can make a babykiller like Öcalan innocent? Does existence of corrupted or incompetent state officers give you a right to kill civilians? Women, children, primary school teachers? What is your point about him here? Nothing you said can’t change the fact this guy is a straight up war criminal and a ruthless murderer Yarluq20 (talk) 13:35, 5 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 | minthreadsleft = 3
 }}{{archives}}
-== Political Prisoner ==
-So, Abdullah Ocalan has been identified as a political criminal. İs he in prison just for he is communist or something. No he is not.
-So if he is political prisoner ( while he murdered womans childerens, he doesnt deny it, he raid villages, he kill soldiers, he blow up outposts. No doubt in that ) dthen nazis are meant to be considered as political prisoner (while they kill many people. No doubt in that). They both not political prisoners. They are murdered people. Thats why they punished. And Ocalan punished for his murders and crimes.
-İf we say " Ocalan is a political prisoner" it will be hypocrasy and a example of unobjektive. While everybody knows that kill people we cant say he is a political prisoners [[User:Turkish SpongeBob|Turkish SpongeBob]] ([[User talk:Turkish SpongeBob|talk]]) 01:15, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
-:He have had this discussion [[Talk:Abdullah Öcalan/Archive 2#Not a political prisoner|before]]. As far as I am aware of he was banned from politics for life so he is a political prisoner, not only a political prisoner, but also. Then a politician from the Turkish Government called him a political prisoner themselves see [[Talk:Abdullah Öcalan/Archive 2#Not a political prisoner|here]]. Then numerous Nobel laureates also referred to him as a political prisoner see [https://m.bianet.org/english/print/207869-call-by-50-nobel-prize-laureates-end-the-solitary-confinement here].   [[User:Paradise Chronicle|Paradise Chronicle]] ([[User talk:Paradise Chronicle|talk]]) 06:16, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
-:The Guy literally founded a terrorist group that bombs civilians. Operated his armed attacks on both civilian and Turkish soldiers to idea of seperation of Turkey and founding Kurdistan as the main goal. He literally rejected from almost every country he is trying to seek political asylum. He is clearly a terrorist and even the European governments had to let Turkey arrest and have every right to execute him. Nobody cares if some author called him as political prisoner. That's an opinion not a fact. With your argument we can easily argue that Bin Laden was a political leader and a which is not he is the most famous for, is it? So Abdullah Öcalan should be labeled and called as a terrorist. He acted terrorist actions, founded armed terrorist group, planned suicide bombers and attacks on civilians, etc. Wow such a political prisoner. [[User:sebci|sebci]] ([[User talk:sabci|talk]]) 02:21, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
-::Well I can find many sources that says He is a terorist. What makes Nobel, a Trusted source. What I am saying is very clear and known to everyone. How can this man be a political criminal when no one denies that Öcalan raided villages, killed people and killed soldiers? He even writes in his own book that he raided villages and killed people. If someone did the same thing in America, they would be executed. TurkeyWhat I am saying is very clear and known to everyone. How can this man be a political criminal when no one denies that Öcalan raided villages, killed people and killed soldiers? He even writes in his own book that he raided villages and killed people. So there is court reports. While anybody doesnt look court reports, why we have to trust Nobel organization. [[User:Turkish SpongeBob|Turkish SpongeBob]] ([[User talk:Turkish SpongeBob|talk]]) 18:35, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
-:::According to some Turks, Abdullah Öcalan was named "Artin Agopyan" and had connections to Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA). [[Special:Contributions/155.137.27.93|155.137.27.93]] ([[User talk:155.137.27.93|talk]]) 07:25, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
-::::Do you really pretend that we consider "some Turks" as a reliable source? Otherwise, this is just speculative and might be labelled as [[WP:FORUM]]. Please stick to reliable sources, thank you. [[User:PedroAcero76|PedroAcero76]] ([[User talk:PedroAcero76|talk]]) 11:04, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
-:::::That is ok. It is only an accusation. [[Special:Contributions/155.137.27.93|155.137.27.93]] ([[User talk:155.137.27.93|talk]]) 13:33, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 == Proposed merge of [[Nationalism of Abdullah Öcalan]] into [[Abdullah Öcalan]] ==
@@ Line 51: / Line 37: @@
 :{{notdone}} [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 18:03, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
 ::{{tpq|This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it.}} [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 18:04, 1 August 2024 (UTC)
+== Confessed war criminal and a drug lord ==
+{{collapse top|please remember that this topic is restricted to extended confirmed editors.}}
+PKK under his leasership is responsible for nearly 5k civilian deaths, raids on villages, thousands of kidnappings and executions (especially Kurd villagers who were not aiding them), attacks on kindergartens and primary schools, suicide bombings, human trafficking (especially high school age youth at rural areas getting forced to join their forces), drug trafficking (major income source) and a lot of other crimes committed against international human rights.
+All of them were confessed by himself. After he got arrested he said he didn’t wanted to do all that but he had a lot of statements supporting these activities back then.
+PKK can not represent Kurdish people or Kurdish identity. Their only difference from other Middle East based terrorist organizations such as IS or Al-Qaeda is their self-claimed ideologic orientation. So considering PKK as representatives of Kurd population is the same foolishness with considering IS as representatives of all Muslims in the world.
+A suitable head description:
+Abdullah Öcalan (/ˈoʊdʒəlɑːn/ OH-jə-lahn;Turkish: [œdʒaɫan]; born 4 April 1949), also known as Apo (short for Abdullah in Turkish; Kurdish for "uncle"), is a political prisoner(?), war criminal, drug lord and founding member of the militant Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK). [[User:Yarluq20|Yarluq20]] ([[User talk:Yarluq20|talk]]) 08:54, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
+:The PKK, under the leadership of Abdullah Öcalan, fought against Turkey, which is responsible for nearly 40,000 civilian deaths, raids on villages, thousands of kidnappings, and executions, particularly of Kurdish villagers who did not even know anything about the PKK struggle against the Turkish regime. Innocent Kurds have been subjected to imprisoned  and torture, bombings of villages who refuse to cooperate with Turkish intelligence , human trafficking, and drug trafficking (a major source of income), for those who spy in Turkish military high-ranking positions and numerous other crimes against international human rights.
+:All of these crimes were confessed by hand, fool-brave retired ex-military officers. After their retirement,they stated that they did not want to commit these acts but that they had numerous statements supporting them at the time.
+:The PKK represents the Kurdish people and Kurdish identity. The PKK can’t be categorised like other Middle East-based terrorist organizations such as ISIS or Al-Qaeda, which is their self-proclaimed ideological orientation. Therefore, not considering the PKK as representatives of the Kurdish population is akin to considering ISIS as representatives of all Muslims in the world.
+:A suitable head description:
+:Abdullah Öcalan, born on April 4, 1949, is a political prisoner, freedom fighter , and founding member of the militant Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK). In Turkish, Apo is a short form of Abdullah, which means “uncle” in Kurdish. [[Special:Contributions/86.27.131.27|86.27.131.27]] ([[User talk:86.27.131.27|talk]]) 22:31, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
+::Nice projection. About the stuff occurred after 80 coup d’etat; these torturing of prisoners things are not specific to Kurds, literally every far-right and far-left organization member got prisoned and tortured inside or got executed because of their very own criminal activities. I know it very well that JİTEM, which was supposed to fight with terrorism, became a corrupted inter-state faction started to conduct illegal activities. 40.000 civilian deaths? Who told you this? Rojava Information Ministry? That number is PKK armed casualties not civilians (if you also dont count these guys with automatic rifles as civilians lol) Lets imagine everything you said is true, how all of these can make a babykiller like Öcalan innocent? Does existence of corrupted or incompetent state officers give you a right to kill civilians? Women, children, primary school teachers? What is your point about him here? Nothing you said can’t change the fact this guy is a straight up war criminal and a ruthless murderer [[User:Yarluq20|Yarluq20]] ([[User talk:Yarluq20|talk]]) 13:35, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
+{{collapse bottom}}