Talk:Wagner Group: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Latest revision as of 20:11, 6 December 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Wagner Group article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 2 months

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

This article was nominated for deletion on August 18 2015. The result of the discussion was delete.

On 24 March 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to PMC Liga. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Military history: Russian & Soviet

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force

Russia Low‑importance

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 3 times. The weeks in which this happened:

Section sizes

Section size for Wagner Group (41 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	47,034	47,034
Origins and leadership	1,521	16,564
Yevgeny Prigozhin	7,067	7,067
Dmitry Utkin	6,889	6,889
Konstantin Pikalov	1,087	1,087
Organization	11,933	35,325
Recruitment, training, techniques	13,221	13,221
Units	12	10,171
Rusich unit	5,119	5,119
Serb unit	5,040	5,040
Relationship with the Russian state	23,519	30,584
Wagner Group rebellion	7,065	7,065
Activities	543	89,244
Ukraine	1,012	37,461
Crimea annexation and War in Donbas	14,696	14,696
Full-scale invasion of Ukraine since 2022	21,753	21,753
Belarus	9,716	9,716
Syria	10,513	10,513
Africa	5,273	28,663
Sudan	5,412	5,412
Central African Republic	7,305	7,305
Libya	4,252	4,252
Mali	6,421	6,421
Venezuela	2,348	2,348
Possible activities	24	9,413
Moldova	962	962
Nagorno-Karabakh	5,042	5,042
Serbia	680	680
Other	2,705	2,705
Casualties	19,588	19,588
Sanctions	8,817	8,817
Plane crash	3,962	3,962
Far-right elements	6,759	6,759
Awards and honors	9,078	9,078
Post Yevgeny Prigozhin's death	2,848	3,799
Nationalization of Wagner Group	951	951
Notable members	719	719
See also	96	96
Citations	27	27
Further reading	4,515	4,515
External links	1,170	1,170
Total	286,694	286,694

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 June 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

TenshiPT (talk) 12:59, 16 June 2024 (UTC) At the final category (Post-Prigozhin's death) there's a sentence that says: "Wagner is officially becoming a unit of Rosgvardia...The entire structure, methods of work and commanders remain the same.", there's supposed to be "an unit of Rosgvardia" not "a unit of Rosgvardia"[reply]

Not done: a unit is correct, an is only used when the next word begins with a vowel sound (regardless of whether the letter is a vowel or not). Unit begins with the consonant sound Y like a university or a universal truth. You only need an when the U makes a vowel sound like in an umbrella. English is a very weird language. Jamedeus (talk) 01:29, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Contradictory payment figures

There are paymen figures in this article that hardly make sense. Namely, it says that the pay could be between 80,000-250,000 rubles or 667-2083 in USD citing a 2017 article. So the USD/RUB ratio was about 120 back then. Problem is, back in 2017 and prior the USD/RUB ratio was between 60-70 rubles, and even if we take into accout the taxes, it is still way off the 667-2083 range stated in the same sentence. The same applies to the next sentence, which states that 300,000 RUB corresponds to 2,500 USD according to an article published again in 2017 - once again a random USD/RUB ratio which has nothing to do with 2017 reality. Gorgedweller (talk) 11:59, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

THis looks like OR. Slatersteven (talk) 12:02, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It may very well be. Either someone failed to understand the article they cited, or the authors of the article are really bad at math. 12:10, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Or that was not the exchange rate in 2017, care to link to a source for it? Slatersteven (talk) 12:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Russian source about the groups origins

https://styler-rbc-ua.translate.goog/rus/zhizn/stalo-izvestno-voznikla-chvk-vagner-boeviki-1520445072.html?_x_tr_sl=en&_x_tr_tl=el&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:F03E:E177:15E6:22E2 (talk) 02:51, 10 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lack of info post 2023

There is no info presented here about the groups activities after 2023 2A02:587:E83F:DEAA:10B3:9D14:330A:1B94 (talk) 16:47, 6 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{Talk header|archive_age=60}}
+{{Talk header}}
 {{Controversial}}
-{{Ds/talk notice|topic=e-e}}
+{{Contentious topics/talk notice|topic=e-e}}
 {{old AfD multi  |date1 = August 18 2015 |result1 = '''delete''' |page1 = Wagner Group}}
 {{old move|date=24 March 2022|destination=PMC Liga|result=not moved|link=Special:Permalink/1080219776#Requested move 24 March 2022}}
+{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|1=
-{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1=
 {{WikiProject Military history|class=B|b1=y|b2=y|b3=y|b4=y|b5=y|Russian=yes}}
-{{WikiProject Russia|class=B|importance=low}}
+{{WikiProject Russia|importance=low}}
 }}
 {{Refideas
@@ Line 24: / Line 24: @@
 {{section sizes}}
+== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 June 2024 ==
-== [minor] Sergei Shoigu image description change ==
-I believe the image description of the image portraying Sergei Shoigu should use past tense, as it refers to the deceased Prigozhin. [[User:Emlythk|Emlythk]] ([[User talk:Emlythk|talk]]) 20:43, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
-== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 December 2023 ==
 {{Edit extended-protected|Wagner Group|answered=yes}}
+ [[User:TenshiPT|TenshiPT]] ([[User talk:TenshiPT|talk]]) 12:59, 16 June 2024 (UTC) At the final category (Post-Prigozhin's death) there's a sentence that says: "Wagner is officially becoming a unit of Rosgvardia...The entire structure, methods of work and commanders remain the same.", there's supposed to be "an unit of Rosgvardia" not "a unit of Rosgvardia"
-Please replace [[:File:Wagner armed rebellion vehicle marking Z.png]] with [[:File:Wagner armed rebellion vehicle marking Z.svg]] [[User:Rainbowlack|Rainbowlack]] ([[User talk:Rainbowlack|talk]]) 22:37, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
-:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:EEp --> no reason given for the proposed change. [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 21:42, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
+:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:EEp --> {{tq|a unit}} is correct, {{tq|an}} is only used when the next word begins with a ''vowel sound'' (regardless of whether the letter is a vowel or not). Unit begins with the consonant sound {{tq|Y}} like {{tq|a university}} or {{tq|a universal truth}}. You only need {{tq|an}} when the U makes a vowel sound like in {{tq|an umbrella}}. English is a very weird language. [[User:Jamedeus|Jamedeus]] ([[User talk:Jamedeus|talk]]) 01:29, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
-:: Please note, [[User:M.Bitton]]: you only come across as lazy and uncharitable when you routinely deny requests without thinking yourself. As HappyWith must have spotted, the image format changed from png to svg. Converting images to vector format is an excellent reason to give for a proposed change. Wikipedia doesn't lose anything by editors holding off until they're reasonably sure the request actually lacks merit. Please consider not involving yourself if your involvement is limited to rubber-stamping a "no". Thanks [[User:CapnZapp|CapnZapp]] ([[User talk:CapnZapp|talk]]) 06:35, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
-:::{{re|CapnZapp}} if you were more thorough and less eager to be unnecessarily rude, you would have noticed that it's not a like for like replacement, and therefore, an explanation is expected before removing the image that has implicit consensus. [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 13:24, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
-:::: Did you say so when you declined the edit request? No? Then perhaps my message to you remains valid? Cheers [[User:CapnZapp|CapnZapp]] ([[User talk:CapnZapp|talk]]) 16:08, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
-:{{Done}}. [[User:HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith|HappyWith]] ([[User talk:HappyWithWhatYouHaveToBeHappyWith|talk]]) 01:23, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
-== IDF? ==
-Why is IDF listed as opponent? No source is given for this. [[User:Genabab|Genabab]] ([[User talk:Genabab|talk]]) 15:16, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
-:Looks like that's related to (lower down in the info box) involvement in the 2023 Israel-Hamas War. The citation listed for that is  Gordon, Michael R.; Salama, Vivian (2 November 2023). "Russia's Wagner Group Plans to Send Air Defenses to Hezbollah, U.S. Says". The Wall Street Journal. Retrieved 2 November 2023 https://www.wsj.com/world/russias-wagner-group-may-provide-air-defense-weapon-to-hezbollah-u-s-intel-says-37dc8f45 [[User:TurnipWatch|TurnipWatch]] ([[User talk:TurnipWatch|talk]]) 21:55, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
-::"Plans to send" and "is sending" are two different things. Until they are actually confirmed to be sending we stick with [[WP:NOTCRYSTALBALL]]. This was also discussed over at the 2023 Israel-Hamas War article and consensus was that until it is confirmed that Wagner are actually actively providing support to Hamas they are not to be included. [[User:EkoGraf|EkoGraf]] ([[User talk:EkoGraf|talk]]) 01:33, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
-==Africa Corps==
-This article lists "Africa Corps" as an alias for Wagner.
-When I looked at the source and a bunch of other ones, it seems that it's being used to replace Wagner, not to rename it.
-<span style="font-family:Courier">[[User:SlopeInterceptor|<span style="color:#89290d">Slope</span>]][[User:SlopeInterceptor|<span style="color:#00000">Interceptor</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:SlopeInterceptor|Talk]]</sup> </span> 13:53, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
-:Sources such as? [[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 16:33, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
-Wagner group ranks [[Special:Contributions/121.6.199.197|121.6.199.197]] ([[User talk:121.6.199.197|talk]]) 16:31, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
-:Sources? [[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 16:33, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
-{{od}}
-'''Should we start a new article''', taking the title from what's currently a redirect to Rommel's Africa Korps?
-So far, I've added a hat note over at [[Africa Korps]]. "Africa Corps" currently redirects there.
+== Contradictory payment figures  ==
-However, we usually rename our articles when companies change names. '''Should we move this article''' to the new name of Africa Corps? (If so, the hat note should instead be here, saying something like "For the WWII German expeditionary force, see Africa Korps").
+There are paymen figures in this article that hardly make sense. Namely, it says that the pay could be between 80,000-250,000 rubles or 667-2083 in USD citing a 2017 article. So the USD/RUB ratio was about 120 back then. Problem is, back in 2017 and prior the USD/RUB ratio was between 60-70 rubles, and even if we take into accout the taxes, it is still way off the 667-2083 range stated in the same sentence. The same applies to the next sentence, which states that 300,000 RUB corresponds to 2,500 USD according to an article published again in 2017 - once again a random USD/RUB ratio which has nothing to do with 2017 reality. [[User:Gorgedweller|Gorgedweller]] ([[User talk:Gorgedweller|talk]]) 11:59, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
-PS. Please don't lazily ask for sources when it is trivial to find lots of them, just google "africa corps wagner". Here are just some random ones:
+:THis looks like OR. [[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 12:02, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
+::It may very well be. Either someone failed to understand the article they cited, or the authors of the article are really bad at math. 12:10, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
+:::Or that was not the exchange rate in 2017, care to link to a source for it? [[User:Slatersteven|Slatersteven]] ([[User talk:Slatersteven|talk]]) 12:14, 22 October 2024 (UTC)
+== Russian source about the groups origins ==
-* <ref>https://adf-magazine.com/2024/01/with-new-name-same-russian-mercenaries-plague-africa/</ref>
-* <ref>https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-12-23/russia-expands-into-the-sahel-with-its-new-brand-africa-corps.html#</ref>
-* <ref>https://www.newsweek.com/russia-new-africa-corps-hamper-us-clout-libya-putin-sudan-wagner-1845516</ref>
-* <ref>https://www.theafricareport.com/331580/investigation-how-putin-is-taking-control-of-wagner-in-africa/</ref>
-[[User:CapnZapp|CapnZapp]] ([[User talk:CapnZapp|talk]]) 06:28, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
+https://styler-rbc-ua.translate.goog/rus/zhizn/stalo-izvestno-voznikla-chvk-vagner-boeviki-1520445072.html?_x_tr_sl=en&_x_tr_tl=el&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp [[Special:Contributions/2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:F03E:E177:15E6:22E2|2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:F03E:E177:15E6:22E2]] ([[User talk:2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:F03E:E177:15E6:22E2|talk]]) 02:51, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
-<!--- please insert any replies here to keep the talkref template collecting all references of the discussion into one place -->
+== Lack of info post 2023 ==
+There is no info presented here about the groups activities after 2023 [[Special:Contributions/2A02:587:E83F:DEAA:10B3:9D14:330A:1B94|2A02:587:E83F:DEAA:10B3:9D14:330A:1B94]] ([[User talk:2A02:587:E83F:DEAA:10B3:9D14:330A:1B94|talk]]) 16:47, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
-{{talkref}}