Talk:Fifth grade: Difference between revisions

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Merge them all

Having a separate article for each grade doesn't really make a lot of sense, and a single article would do much better justice to them all. Some advantages of merging:

We could have one article for the US system, one for UK system etc, rather than each article attempting to cover generalities across very different systems.
The repetetive "students in this grade tend to be aged X" could be avoided.
A standard format for information could be easily managed.
Some actual references might be found and used ;)
"Grade 5" could become a list of pointers to all the differetn grade 5s that exist, like grade 5 in rock climbing, in music, in different years etc.

In short, "fifth grade" would make a great section in an article about the US elementary school system (pretty much what the article is currently about), but it makes a very poor article by itself. Stevage 06:05, 26 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This seems like a sensible proposal to me. The current system is not helpful for understanding anything but the US system. Much better to have a structured article for each nation covering their respective grade/year systems. Tafkam 16:01, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm reviving this -- it's still an issue, 15 years on. It's fascinating as a fossil from the early years, when Wikipedia was still figuring how to wiki. If it was awkward back then, time has only made it more so. Miyo0i (talk) 05:52, 28 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

And guys why are there two sections about the United States? 2400:AC40:627:D75:C086:2E11:4AC6:AB45 (talk) 05:21, 2 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I once knew somebody who stayed back in fifth grade for 7 years

True story. I was in fifth grade in 1999 and some guy born in like 1983 was in my fifth grade class. The teacher begged him to copy another student's quiz so he could pass him but he said he didn't want to cheat. I kept joking he was in 5th grade since 1979. Whig4life (talk) 18:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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+{{Talkheader}}
-{{WikiProject Education|class=Stub|importance=Low}}
+{{WikiProject banner shell|class=Stub|
+{{WikiProject Education|importance=Low}}
-==Navigational template==
+}}
-The navigational template on this page (and other grade pages) originally indicated that it was specifically tracking the progression of the U.S. educational system. [[User:Silsor]]'s misdirected Ameriphobia caused him to remove that indication, so now the template suggests that it is now tracking the progression of all worldwide educational systems, which of course it is not. He has not been able/willing to discuss it reasonably with me, and I'm not interested in a fight over it. I personally would think that the best solution to a nation-centrism problem is to ''add'' information, not remove information. - [[User:KeithTyler|KeithTyler]]
-----
-''from VfD:''
-IMO superfluous information about "fifth grade". --[[User:Logariasmo|Logariasmo]] 01:19, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*'''Redirect''' to [[primary education]]. --[[User:Slowking Man|Slowking Man]] 03:07, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)
-*Agree with redirect. Also potentially inaccurate; my junior high started with seventh grade. [[User:Meelar|[[User:Meelar|Meelar]] [[User talk:Meelar|(talk)]]]] 03:08, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)
-*'''Redirect'''. Also potentially inaccurate because it assumes that everyone uses the American education system. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] 12:32, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*'''Redirect'''. Also incorrect because fith graders are usually 10, not 11 years old (at least at the start of the year). [[User:Dsmdgold|Dsmdgold]] 13:25, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*'''Delete''' - Just to offer a different opinion, this (IMO) is not worth keeping. [[User:ClockworkTroll|ClockworkTroll]] 17:22, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*'''Delete.''' Inaccurate dictdef. How grades correspond to schools depends on the district (or at least the state)&mdash;when I was in grade school, 5th grade was in middle school. [[User:Gwalla|<nowiki></nowiki>]] &mdash; [[User:Gwalla|Gwalla]] | [[User talk:Gwalla|Talk]] 18:19, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-**It's not inaccurate, it's incomplete.  If you know of a system that differs, ''add those details''. [[User:Anthony DiPierro|anthony]] [[User:Anthony_DiPierro/warning|(see warning)]] 03:51, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*I finally made it look more accurate and encyclopedic. Any comments?? [[User:66.245.13.101|66.245.13.101]] 20:21, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-**Yes. Remember that just because Americans do things one way does not mean the whole world does. Nowhere does it say that this only applies to the United States. -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] 19:16, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*Delete.  There is no way these generalities are accurate, and the less absolute they get the less useful the article.  [[User:Postdlf|Postdlf]] 21:46, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*'''Delete, no redirect'''. Not encyclopedic. --[[User:Pgunn|Improv]] 21:56, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*'''Delete'''  Even with the improvements, there is such variation between what is taught in various 5th grades that the article is bound to be substantially inaccurate for a large number of people.  [[User:Joy Stovall|Joyous, 5th grade teacher]]
-**Amazingly, somehow the [[kindergarten]] article is able to talk about the variations without being inaccurate.  There's no reason an article on fifth grade can't do the same thing. [[User:Anthony DiPierro|anthony]] [[User:Anthony_DiPierro/warning|(see warning)]] 03:56, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*<strike>Delete</strike> -- can we even assume that "Xth grade" always refers to a school level? [[User:KeithTyler|KeithTyler]] 00:31, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)
-**A begrudging vote to '''Redirect''' somewhere sensible. - [[User:KeithTyler|KeithTyler]] 07:13, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)
-**If you've got a different usage for the term, please do add it. [[User:Anthony DiPierro|anthony]] [[User:Anthony_DiPierro/warning|(see warning)]] 03:53, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*'''Comment''' Shouldn't this be called [[Grade 5]] in any case? [[User:132.205.15.42|132.205.15.42]] 03:18, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*Redirect to [[primary education]], if it turns out to be ambiguous, disambiguate it. [[User:Siroxo| ]]&mdash;[[User:Siroxo|<font color=#627562>siro</font>]][[User talk:Siroxo|<font color=#627562>''&chi;''</font>]][[User:Siroxo|<font color=#627562>o</font>]] 05:55, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
-*keep. [[User:Anthony DiPierro|anthony]] [[User:Anthony_DiPierro/warning|(see warning)]] 22:14, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*Keep. [[User:Intrigue|Intrigue]] 18:33, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*Delete: the only things that can be safely said are dictdef things.  There is no way to say more than "comes after fourth and precedes sixth, is part of middle school" without being wrong about it somewhere. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 20:41, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-**Please, we have a whole article on [[primary education]].  That article says much more than just "comes before secondary education".  There are a lot of generalizations that can be made, and the differences in different school systems is ''what makes the article useful in the first place''.  If everyone used the same system, then the article ''would'' be useless, because everyone would already know the facts in it.  But systems are different, and if someone from say the UK is reading something that mentions "American fifth graders", they can come to this article on "fifth grade" and see what that means.  But not if it's deleted, without at least keeping a redirect. [[User:Anthony DiPierro|anthony]] [[User:Anthony_DiPierro/warning|(see warning)]] 03:47, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-***Does this mean we should have articles about second, third, ..., twelfth grade? And if, i.e. Nepal and Mongolia also have different systems, that they should also be listed? If there's an article about a book, should we detail every chapter as a separate article? And every character? Don't you think it becomes potentially redundant at large for an encyclopedia? It is indeed nice that there is information available about the most diverse subjects, but is this type of diversity informative? Also, when the information becomes this excessive, it becomes more and more difficult to find articles and to update them so that they remain accurate. Just my opinion..--[[User:200.32.109.207|200.32.109.207]] 06:03, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-****I don't see a problem with an article on each grade.  There certainly should be a redirect or a disambiguation page for each.  Whether or not articles on books should be split by chapter depends on how big the article is.  We have guidelines on when an article is too small and should be split, just as we have guidelines on when an article is too large and should be merged.  It's certainly not an issue which needs to be taken to VfD.  The term "fifth grade" gets 655,000 google hits.  It's perfectly reasonable that someone might look the term up in Wikipedia.  If they do, they should at least get a redirect. [[User:Anthony DiPierro|anthony]] [[User:Anthony_DiPierro/warning|(see warning)]] 14:38, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-* Has this article yet gotten its VFD consensus?? What is its consensus?? [[User:66.245.90.209|66.245.90.209]] 00:21, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-** I would say that the consensus &mdash;if any&mdash; is "not keep". The majority has voted either in favor of a redirect to "Primary education" or for a "Delete" altogether.--[[User:Mfolozi|Mfolozi]] 05:53, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-***Both redirect and keep are versions of keep.  But there isn't consensus for even this.  [[User:Anthony DiPierro|anthony]] [[User:Anthony_DiPierro/warning|(see warning)]] 18:05, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-*To be fair, I have to say that as long as the article indicates (or better yet, differentiates) that it is talking about the American school system, it is encyclopedic. For starters, anyone who is not American who hears about someone in the U.S. who is in "fifth grade" would benefit greatly from such an article. - [[User:KeithTyler|KeithTyler]] 07:15, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)
-**As I don't know anything about non-American school systems, I'll leave this differentiation or indication to someone who does (apparently some of the people who have made notes above). [[User:Anthony DiPierro|anthony]] [[User:Anthony_DiPierro/warning|(see warning)]] 18:06, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
-''end moved discussion''
 == Merge them all ==
 Having a separate article for each grade doesn't really make a lot of sense, and a single article would do much better justice to them all. Some advantages of merging:
 *We could have one article for the US system, one for UK system etc, rather than each article attempting to cover generalities across very different systems.
@@ Line 59: / Line 17: @@
 I'm reviving this -- it's still an issue, 15 years on. It's fascinating as a fossil from the early years, when Wikipedia was still figuring how to wiki. If it was awkward back then, time has only made it more so. [[User:Miyo0i|Miyo0i]] ([[User talk:Miyo0i|talk]]) 05:52, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
+:And guys why are there two sections about the United States? [[Special:Contributions/2400:AC40:627:D75:C086:2E11:4AC6:AB45|2400:AC40:627:D75:C086:2E11:4AC6:AB45]] ([[User talk:2400:AC40:627:D75:C086:2E11:4AC6:AB45|talk]]) 05:21, 2 November 2024 (UTC)
-== removing POV tag with no active discussion per [[Template:POV]] ==
-I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at [[Template:POV]]:
-::This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
-::#There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
-::#It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
-::#In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.
-Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- [[User:Khazar2|Khazar2]] ([[User talk:Khazar2|talk]]) 01:41, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
-== Proposed merge with [[Year Five]] ==
+== I once knew somebody who stayed back in fifth grade for 7 years ==
-Much of the content about the specific countries is already covered in the fifth grade article. There is no reason why they should be separate, even if they have a separate name. "Year 5" is mentioned in the fifth grade article and that is a more complete article. For not all the countries in the [[fifth grade]] article are called "fifth grade" either. - '''[[User:Champion|<big>C</big><small>HAMPION</small>]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Champion|talk]]) ([[Special:Contributions/Champion|contributions]]) ([[Special:Logs/Champion|logs]]) </sup> 04:41, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
+True story. I was in fifth grade in 1999 and some guy born in like 1983 was in my fifth grade class. The teacher begged him to copy another student's quiz so he could pass him but he said he didn't want to cheat. I kept joking he was in 5th grade since 1979. [[User:Whig4life|Whig4life]] ([[User talk:Whig4life|talk]]) 18:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
-:No, this article is just a stub, but it would be inappropriate to merge this stub with Year Five because the numbers do not correspond in the main usages.  Would it not be better to redirect to general articles about educational grades and years where a less confusing comparison can be made?  [[User:Dbfirs|''<span style="font-family:verdana;"><span style="color:blue;">D</span><span style="color:#00ccff;">b</span><span style="color:#44ffcc;">f</span><span style="color:#66ff66;">i</span><span style="color:#44ee44;">r</span><span style="color:#44aa44;">s</span></span>'']] 07:47, 21 October 2016 (UTC)