Talk:Croatia: Difference between revisions
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I am looking at things that I know intimately to try and gauge the worth of this enciklopedia. Gathering from this page about Croatia I must say that if the rest of it is like this, then it's on the verge of useless crap written by people who's only purpose is to further their POV... full of crap... |
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:Then why don't you step forward and list the points which who think are POV, so we can discuss them? Or change them directly if you are sure it will be more neutral afterwards. This site lives by constructive criticism, not from complaining. -- [[User:Ahoerstemeier|andy]] 11:32, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC) |
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|action1date=09:56, 28 October 2011 (UTC) |
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|action2link=Wikipedia:Peer review/Croatia/archive1 |
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|action3 = GAR |
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|action3date = 14:17, 27 January 2023 (UTC) |
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|action3link = Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Croatia/1 |
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|action3result = delisted |
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It was said that are 300 000 Serbs had gone in 1995. That is not correct number. Much less- 100 000. Jasenovac wasn't 3rd camp in WW2. The number of victoms was glorified by Serbs. You should check better that numbers. |
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{{WikiProject Croatia|importance=Top}} |
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== GAR == |
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It was said a comunist state which is not true, It was a socialistic state! |
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{{Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Croatia/1}} |
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Dubravko, currently the language is called [[Serbo-Croatian language|Serbo-Croatian]] in Wikipedia. Notice that the official language was listed as Croatian - please see the pages on Serbo-Croatian, Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian. If you have problems with this, please discuss it on [[Talk:Serbo-Croatian language]] before changing all references to local names in Croatia from Serbo-Croatian to Croatian. [[User:Zocky|Zocky]] 12:47 27 May 2003 (UTC) |
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== Comments and questions == |
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I fixed the link which now points to correct page Croatian_language. |
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1. The article says "During the 5th century, the last de jure Western Roman Emperor Julius Nepos ruled a small realm from the palace after fleeing Italy in 475." |
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However, it's not clear what is the "palace" in question. I assume it's Diocletian's palace which is the likely residence of [[Julius Nepos]] during his nominal continued reign in Dalmatia (as stated in the article on Julius Nepos). |
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2. The section "Personal union with Hungary (1102) and Habsburg Monarchy (1527)" ends with WWI. |
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As said, this is not about the link, it's rather about consistency within this encyclopaedia - the language in the sense of a set of grammatical rules and words is called Serbo-Croatian (in wikipedia and throughout universities and literature in the world), whereas written standards and official languages are called Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian etc. |
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It does not say anything more than that. At least it should explain how it started. I believe a short paragraph is needed since WWI was a major event in Europe (not only Croatia). |
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It's an issue that has nothing to do with Croatia per se, so if you have problems with this defacto policy, please discuss it on [[Talk:Serbo-Croatian language]] before changing it again. [[User:Zocky|Zocky]] 13:01 27 May 2003 (UTC) |
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3. The image of the Danube river is pointless. |
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Speaking of consistency, please check out what is stated under Croatian language about Serbo-Croatian language. |
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4a. The image in the "Climate" section was previously showing the bora but some genius removed it and placed an image that shows something completely unrelated to the bora. Please fix image and caption as necessary. It does not make sense. |
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:Thanks for pointing that out. Please people, let's not stoop to the low levels of Greek geeks vandalizing every article on anything Macedonian. This is an encyclopaedia, not a third-rate political tabloid. [[User:Zocky|Zocky]] 13:14 27 May 2003 (UTC) |
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4b. The "Climate" section mentions bora and bura. Let's try to stick to a single spelling for better clarity and uniformity. |
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An [[Zocky]]: |
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Was soll dieser Schwachsinn über Griechenland sein ? |
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Macedon,Thessaloniki 27.05.2003 |
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5. The text says "As of May 2019, the Croatian military had 72 members stationed in foreign countries as part of United Nations-led international peacekeeping forces. As of 2019, 323 troops served the NATO-led ISAF force in Afghanistan. Another 156 served with KFOR in Kosovo." |
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Someone anonymous seems to insist that Croatia is not located on the Balkan. Can anyone dig out any proof for this claim, or other way round proof to convice the anonymous? -- [[User:Ahoerstemeier|andy]] 13:31, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC) |
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It should be updated to 2024. |
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: To be fair, the country does have three distinct geographical, historical and cultural influences, so I've updated the opening paragraph to include all three of them, not just one (and one that is the most negative at that). --[[User:Shallot|Shallot]] 12:20, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC) |
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6. The text says "As a result of the war, economic infrastructure sustained massive damage, particularly the tourism industry." |
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Following reference moved from article: [[User:Olivier|olivier]] 11:56, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC) |
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What war is it? This is ambiguous. There is a lack of clarity. |
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*''Much of the material in these articles comes from the [[CIA World Factbook]] 2000 and the 2003 U.S. Department of State website.'' |
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7. The text says "The population decrease was greater a result of war for independence." |
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Is this even grammatically correct? |
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Rubbish about "Ustaša state" (1941-1945 period) deleted. It would be as stupid as to call Nazi Germany "SS" state or Fascist Italy "camice nere" state. Btw- the entire page on Ustaša movement is little more than an example of Serbian morbid Weltanschauung & will be significantly altered in near future. |
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8. The image of the Šibenik Cathedral is ugly and it can be replaced with a better one with a better angle (from the front of the building). |
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Mir Harven (mharven@softhome.net) |
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9. The text says "Twenty of these schools got specialised assistance in the form of gear". |
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What does "gear" mean in this context? I speak English and it does not make sense to me. |
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Listing Bošković and Tesla is not misappropriation, dammit. Bošković was from the Dubrovnik Republic, which is part of Croatian heritage in just about every way imaginable, and Tesla was the man who himself said "I am proud of my Croatian homeland" ("and Serbian descent, long live Yugoslavia!"). --[[User:Shallot|Shallot]] 13:39, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC) |
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10. The text says "As of January 2021, there are thirteen nationwide free-to-air DVB-T television channels, with Croatian Radiotelevision (HRT) operating four, RTL Televizija three, and Nova TV operating two channels, and the Croatian Olympic Committee, Kapital Net d.o.o., and Author d.o.o. companies operate the remaining three." |
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:Shallot is right. Not listing Boskovic and Tesla under Croatia is like listing Danilo Kis and Branislav Nusic under Israel instead under Serbia. Ridiculous. Tesla was born in what was then and is now Croatia, and whatever you think of Dubrovnik, it has passed through history from the independent republic through austria to Croatia. Just the way it is. [[User:Zocky|Zocky]] 14:55, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC) |
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The are too many instances of "and". They are redundant/repetitive. |
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Del'ed stuff about "Catholic" Croats, "Orthodox" Serbs and "Muslims". Dated and inaccurate. |
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11. Chess is included in the sports section. It's not really a sport. It's not physical but mental. Football, racing and swimming are sports. |
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Mir Harven |
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12. Some genius replaced the 4 images of traditional Croatian food with a single image of Zagorski štrukli. The previous image offered more national variety and it was a better choice. |
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: Actually, the mappings are almost exact, how is it inaccurate? I assume the dated comment refers to Bosniaks vs. Muslims, which is okay. --[[User:Shallot|Shallot]] 19:41, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC) |
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13. The text says "Croatian athletes won 16 gold medals at world championships". |
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::There are many Croats who are not Catholics: atheists, Baptists, Jehovah witnesses, Muslims,....For instance, Dimitrija Demetar was Orthodox, as well as Stjepan Miletić or Svetozar Borojević. Wont even bother to mention Muslims (Bašagić, Ćazim Ćatić, Kikić, Dizdar, Omer Mujadžić, ...) Or atheists like Krleža or Jews like Schwartz. No- the equation Croats=Catholics doesnt hold water. In fact- it never did. |
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I find "world championships" very general. |
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M H |
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[[User:ICE77|ICE77]] ([[User talk:ICE77|talk]]) 23:36, 23 June 2024 (UTC) |
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::: That's all fine and well, but it doesn't make it unreasonable to note that Croats are generally Catholic etc. I guess we can let the main page contain only ethnicities and not religions, but there's not much point in removing them based on not being phrased precisely enough; instead, it should just be rephrased. --[[User:Shallot|Shallot]] 01:44, 7 Dec 2003 (UTC) |
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== Alternate English Pronunciations == |
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::::In the article on Croatia, one should only mention Croats etc. when referring to nations/peoples. Religion is a separate entry. However, on the page on Croats (not Croatia)- it's OK to describe influence of Catholicism etc. |
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There are alternate pronunciations of the English word "Croatia", including "krow-AH-tee-uh" (common in [[England]]), "KROW-tee-uh" (common among the [[African Americans|African American]] community), and "KRAY-sha" (usually associated with [[Australia]]). These should be represented in the article, possibly as a footnote. [[Special:Contributions/166.196.79.79|166.196.79.79]] ([[User talk:166.196.79.79|talk]]) 22:59, 3 December 2024 (UTC) |
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M H |
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:I had previously removed this question as it seemed to be a weird troll. In case it's not clear, these claims seem like blatant violations of [[WP:OR]] and [[WP:HOAX]]. Anonymous user, if you want to be taken seriously, please [[WP:CITE|cite sources]]. --[[User:Joy|Joy]] ([[User talk:Joy|talk]]) 07:52, 10 December 2024 (UTC) |
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Jiang, the numbers are like that because that's the official numbering. E.g. my home county is Vukovarsko-srijemska, but it's also the sixteenth county; if we sorted the list some other way, it'd still be the sixteenth county. |
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BTW, thanks for fixing those extra \ns in the history section, I was wondering myself why that didn't work but I forgot that I copied and pasted that from my text editor and that that brought in the linebreaks. --[[User:Shallot|Shallot]] 18:51, 21 Dec 2003 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 07:12, 12 December 2024
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Croatia article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Croatia was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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GAR
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • • Most recent review
- Result: Delist as doesn't meet GA criteria 2 or 3 (insufficient citations and lack of recent updates). ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:17, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
Article has "This section needs to be updated" tags in five sections: Economy, Transport, Demographics, Education, Sports, and As of 2019, the Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs and European Integration employed 1,381[needs update]
. It also has "needs additional citations for verification" tag for Sports, and a 'citation needed' in Healthcare section. 'clarification needed' is in Independent Croatia (1991–present) section. With 6 big orange templates article needs work to remain a GA. Artem.G (talk) 19:00, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
- Slightly longer than preferable, and with some oversubsectioning. However, overall not a bad article as far as country articles go, hopefully this can be fixed. CMD (talk) 07:54, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
- Delist: sections need to be updated, while citations are needed in selected places. As CMD noted, should be fairly easy to get back to GA standard, should someone wish to. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:17, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
Comments and questions
[edit]1. The article says "During the 5th century, the last de jure Western Roman Emperor Julius Nepos ruled a small realm from the palace after fleeing Italy in 475."
However, it's not clear what is the "palace" in question. I assume it's Diocletian's palace which is the likely residence of Julius Nepos during his nominal continued reign in Dalmatia (as stated in the article on Julius Nepos).
2. The section "Personal union with Hungary (1102) and Habsburg Monarchy (1527)" ends with WWI.
It does not say anything more than that. At least it should explain how it started. I believe a short paragraph is needed since WWI was a major event in Europe (not only Croatia).
3. The image of the Danube river is pointless.
4a. The image in the "Climate" section was previously showing the bora but some genius removed it and placed an image that shows something completely unrelated to the bora. Please fix image and caption as necessary. It does not make sense.
4b. The "Climate" section mentions bora and bura. Let's try to stick to a single spelling for better clarity and uniformity.
5. The text says "As of May 2019, the Croatian military had 72 members stationed in foreign countries as part of United Nations-led international peacekeeping forces. As of 2019, 323 troops served the NATO-led ISAF force in Afghanistan. Another 156 served with KFOR in Kosovo."
It should be updated to 2024.
6. The text says "As a result of the war, economic infrastructure sustained massive damage, particularly the tourism industry."
What war is it? This is ambiguous. There is a lack of clarity.
7. The text says "The population decrease was greater a result of war for independence."
Is this even grammatically correct?
8. The image of the Šibenik Cathedral is ugly and it can be replaced with a better one with a better angle (from the front of the building).
9. The text says "Twenty of these schools got specialised assistance in the form of gear".
What does "gear" mean in this context? I speak English and it does not make sense to me.
10. The text says "As of January 2021, there are thirteen nationwide free-to-air DVB-T television channels, with Croatian Radiotelevision (HRT) operating four, RTL Televizija three, and Nova TV operating two channels, and the Croatian Olympic Committee, Kapital Net d.o.o., and Author d.o.o. companies operate the remaining three."
The are too many instances of "and". They are redundant/repetitive.
11. Chess is included in the sports section. It's not really a sport. It's not physical but mental. Football, racing and swimming are sports.
12. Some genius replaced the 4 images of traditional Croatian food with a single image of Zagorski štrukli. The previous image offered more national variety and it was a better choice.
13. The text says "Croatian athletes won 16 gold medals at world championships".
I find "world championships" very general.
ICE77 (talk) 23:36, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
Alternate English Pronunciations
[edit]There are alternate pronunciations of the English word "Croatia", including "krow-AH-tee-uh" (common in England), "KROW-tee-uh" (common among the African American community), and "KRAY-sha" (usually associated with Australia). These should be represented in the article, possibly as a footnote. 166.196.79.79 (talk) 22:59, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
- I had previously removed this question as it seemed to be a weird troll. In case it's not clear, these claims seem like blatant violations of WP:OR and WP:HOAX. Anonymous user, if you want to be taken seriously, please cite sources. --Joy (talk) 07:52, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
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