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Dark matter in fiction was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 11 December 2022 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Dark matter. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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Dark matter was one of the Natural sciences good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

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Date	Process	Result
April 4, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
January 28, 2007	Good article nominee	Listed
July 11, 2009	Good article reassessment	Delisted

Current status: Delisted good article

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Proposal to delete the table "Some dark matter hypotheses"

The table labeled "Some dark matter hypotheses" is puzzling and it's content is not reliably sourced. Rather the categories appear to be invented for the table. The entries are a mix of mainstream candidates and fringe theories. No text helps readers sort out the content. In effect is it an overly long See Also section stuck in the middle of the article. Johnjbarton (talk) 03:16, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Confusing footnote

Under "Some dark matter hypotheses" > Neutrinos > Standard Model there is a sourced footnote.

The three neutrino types already observed are indeed abundant, and dark, and matter, but their individual masses are almost certainly too tiny to account for more than a small fraction of dark matter, due to limits derived from large-scale structure and high-redshift galaxies. (ref omitted for Talk page).

As I read this footnote it is an editorial statement that the reference provides evidence against the hypothesis that Standard Model neutrinos account for dark matter (which is what the ref says).

The table gives the impression of (poorly sourced) evidence for a ton different options. If a reader scans the table they conclude "Standard Model neutrinos" are an option. If they read the fine print, they learn it's not an option. To me this is a confusing way to present this information.

@Banedon how about starting the Composition section with a paragraph with this content as well as a reminder of the many aspects of the Standard Model which fail to make the cut for simpler reasons. The latter may seem simplistic but I think it would set up the far ranging search implied by the table. Johnjbarton (talk) 03:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the table also has "MACHO" even though that's been ruled out too. Feel free to make your changes, I'm not likely to revert. Banedon (talk) 04:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 45: / Line 45: @@
 __FORCETOC__
-== How old is matter? ==
+== Proposal to delete the table "Some dark matter hypotheses" ==
+The table labeled "Some dark matter hypotheses" is puzzling and it's content is not reliably sourced. Rather the categories appear to be invented for the table. The entries are a mix of mainstream candidates and fringe theories. No text helps readers sort out the content. In effect is it an overly long See Also section stuck in the middle of the article. [[User:Johnjbarton|Johnjbarton]] ([[User talk:Johnjbarton|talk]]) 03:16, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
-[[User:Motsaathebekhanyisile|Motsaathebekhanyisile]] ([[User talk:Motsaathebekhanyisile|talk]]) 07:45, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
-:{{re|Motsaathebekhanyisile}} 13.8 billion years. Before that everything was energy, and before that it was basically only geometry. But logic is and has been forever. [[User:Sandizer|<span style="font-family:Garamond;">'''''Sandizer'''''</span>]] ([[User talk:Sandizer|talk]]) 05:24, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
-== 21st century history ==
+== Confusing footnote ==
+Under "Some dark matter hypotheses" > Neutrinos > Standard Model there is a sourced footnote.
-{{Ping|Johnjbarton}} what is the reason for [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Dark_matter&diff=next&oldid=1219105582 this deletion]? Is there a way to keep the sources? Do you think they can be summarized better? [[Special:Contributions/141.239.252.245|141.239.252.245]] ([[User talk:141.239.252.245|talk]]) 08:16, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
+* The three neutrino types already observed are indeed abundant, and dark, and matter, but their individual masses are almost certainly too tiny to account for more than a small fraction of dark matter, due to limits derived from [[observable universe|large-scale structure]] and high-[[redshift]] galaxies. (ref omitted for Talk page).
+As I read this footnote it is an editorial statement that the reference provides evidence against the hypothesis that Standard Model neutrinos account for dark matter (which is what the ref says).
+The table gives the impression of (poorly sourced) evidence for a ton different options. If a reader scans the table they conclude "Standard Model neutrinos" are an option. If they read the fine print, they learn it's not an option. To me this is a confusing way to present this information.
-:Thanks for opening this topic.
-:I reverted the edit as I said in the summary because the content is not "History" of Dark Matter. No historian has analyzed the history of Dark Matter and shown how primordial black holes became the alternative. On the contrary, the current consensus is cold dark matter: [[Lambda-CDM]].
-:The sources and a summary are already in the article in the section "Alternative hypotheses". As it stands it appears to be [[WP:UNDUE]]: with in the section "Alternative hypotheses" primordial black hole is given an entire paragraph while other alternatives rate a couple of words. [[User:Johnjbarton|Johnjbarton]] ([[User talk:Johnjbarton|talk]]) 15:18, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
+@[[User:Banedon|Banedon]] how about starting the Composition section with a paragraph with this content as well as a reminder of the many aspects of the Standard Model which fail to make the cut for simpler reasons. The latter may seem simplistic but I think it would set up the far ranging search implied by the table. [[User:Johnjbarton|Johnjbarton]] ([[User talk:Johnjbarton|talk]]) 03:16, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
-== Short description ==
+:Well, the table also has "MACHO" even though that's been ruled out too. Feel free to make your changes, I'm not likely to revert. [[User:Banedon|Banedon]] ([[User talk:Banedon|talk]]) 04:11, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
-@[[User:Banedon|Banedon]] the [[WP:SDesc|short description]] for this article currently reads as
-Hypothetical form of matter that interacts with gravity, ...
-getting cut off. Remember, the short description doesn't need to have as much detail as a lead sentence and is mostly used to disambiguate. Most people see the SD in the search bar, where they've typed in something that is similarly-titled, not similarly-themed.
-I believe "Hypothetical form of matter" would scan quickly, as guidelines suggest, and disambiguate well enough from the other articles that have "dark matter" in the name, which are mostly works of fiction. The closest that might cause confusion is [[Dark matter halo]], which has SD "Theoretical cosmic structure". But since you are engaged on this topic I will leave it to your judgement. [[User:Wizmut|Wizmut]] ([[User talk:Wizmut|talk]]) 04:16, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
-: I think it needs to say more than that, but a little more briefly, such as "Hypothetical form of matter that interacts with gravity, but not with the electromagnetic field" [[User:Bubba73|Bubba73]] <sup>[[User talk:Bubba73|You talkin' to me?]]</sup> 05:01, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
-::That's not a short description, that's a long description. SD's are not load-bearing in the way a scoping statement is, they're purely to lubricate searches. [[User:Wizmut|Wizmut]] ([[User talk:Wizmut|talk]]) 05:05, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
-:::"Hypothetical form of matter" would be ambiguous, there's a lot of hypothetical forms of matter around ([[Exotic matter]]). If we need a very short description, then make it "Concept in cosmology" or something. [[User:Banedon|Banedon]] ([[User talk:Banedon|talk]]) 06:35, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
-::::That works too. But the short description always appears alongside the title, and a user probably wouldn't be seeing the SD if they weren't already searching for something beginning with "Dark". [[User:Wizmut|Wizmut]] ([[User talk:Wizmut|talk]]) 06:54, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
-:::::I don't understand what you mean. Can you elaborate? [[User:Banedon|Banedon]] ([[User talk:Banedon|talk]]) 08:36, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
-::::::Most people see the short description when doing searches in the search bar. In a search for "Dark" something, they want to know if each result they see is the one they're looking for. Is it a film, a book, a concept, a politician.
-::::::Think of something to search for up top in the search bar, type in the first few letters, and see how long it takes to tell if each result is the one you're trying to find. If it takes too long or doesn't make sense, it's probably because the SDs aren't clear and concise enough. [[User:Wizmut|Wizmut]] ([[User talk:Wizmut|talk]]) 08:53, 31 May 2024 (UTC)