Template talk:Infobox historic site: Difference between revisions
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| ⚫ | {{Old AfD multi |date1=2017 July 23 |result1='''Keep''' |link1={{canonicalurl:Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2017 July 23#Template:Infobox historic site}} |date2=2019 March 13 |result2='''Keep''' |link2={{canonicalurl:Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 March 13#Template:Infobox NRHP}}}} |
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| ⚫ | {{Old AfD multi |date1=2017 July 23 |result1='''Keep''' |link1={{canonicalurl:Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2017 July 23#Template:Infobox historic site}} |date2=2019 March 13 |result2='''Keep''' |link2={{canonicalurl:Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 March 13#Template:Infobox NRHP}}}} |
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== Request renovation fields == |
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{{edit template-protected|answered=yes}} |
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Please add |
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:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ETp --> please edit [[Template:Infobox historic site/doc]] directly — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 22:29, 12 March 2021 (UTC) |
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:Thanks {{re|MSGJ}} - I didn't know that page was there and was editable. [[User:Timtempleton|<b style="color:#7F007F">TimTempleton</b>]] [[User talk:Timtempleton|<sup style="color:#800080">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Timtempleton|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 22:57, 12 March 2021 (UTC) |
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==See also== |
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[[Template:Infobox ancient site]] |
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Thanks, [[User:Timtempleton|<b style="color:#7F007F">TimTempleton</b>]] [[User talk:Timtempleton|<sup style="color:#800080">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Timtempleton|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 18:34, 12 March 2021 (UTC) |
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== Template-protected edit request on 19 March 2023 == |
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{{edit template-protected|Template:Infobox historic site|answered=yes}} |
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I made a change to the sandbox to allow for the default image size to be used, and removed the limit on the size of the image. Both make it so that the image is able to be displayed how the user and editor wish, without limiting them. Tests look okay. [[User:SWinxy|SWinxy]] ([[User talk:SWinxy|talk]]) 04:25, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:{{edited2}}. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|<span style="font-size:92%;color:darkblue;font-family:Segoe Script">P.I. Ellsworth</span>]]''''' , [[Editor|<span style="color:black">ed.</span>]] [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|<sup>put'er there</sup>]] <small>13:04, 19 March 2023 (UTC)</small> |
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::Can we discuss this? The "default size" for infoboxes, while it sounds nice, was never too accurate. Most infoboxes have a default width of 250px, and thus upright=1.14 is a perfect default size. As well, many infoboxes have a max size parameter. No infobox should be wider than 325px, and none really are, but this prevents the many newer editors from making such a mistake, and does no harm otherwise. Can SWinxy provide any cases where these edits actually lead to improvements? [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 15:09, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::{{reverted}} pending discussion. '''''[[User:Paine Ellsworth|<span style="font-size:92%;color:darkblue;font-family:Segoe Script">P.I. Ellsworth</span>]]''''' , [[Editor|<span style="color:black">ed.</span>]] [[User talk:Paine Ellsworth|<sup>put'er there</sup>]] <small>15:37, 19 March 2023 (UTC)</small> |
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:::So, my settings are to make images 400px wide for reasons. The problem is with infoboxes that think they know a better image size, and will override mine and others' preferences, be they set their preferred size larger or smaller, when there isn't a good rationale for doing so (e.g. important visual elements that can't be scaled along with the image). I've ''never'' seen a max size parameter until now, so I would disagree there are 'many' infoboxes with them. The vast majority of infoboxes I deal with don't force an image size. I am suspect of the claim that new editors would change the size of infobox images to be larger than they should. Does this even happen? Do editors not fix that? [[User:SWinxy|SWinxy]] ([[User talk:SWinxy|talk]]) 19:49, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::::If you want to change the Image Use Policy, go there. See [[Wikipedia:Image use policy#Infobox and lead images]], [[MOS:IMGSIZE]], and [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&ns10=1&search=insource%3Amaxsize search results for "maxsize" use]. [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 20:21, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::Those project pages disagree with you. [[MOS:IMGSIZE]]: {{tq|Except with very good reason, a fixed width in pixels (e.g. 17px) should not be specified. This ignores the user's base width setting, so <nowiki>upright=scaling</nowiki> factor is preferred whenever possible.}} [[WP:IMGSIZE]]: {{tq|Except with very good reason, do not use px (e.g. <nowiki>|thumb|300px</nowiki>), which forces a fixed image width measured in pixels, disregarding the user's image size preference setting.}} They are clear and consistent that the image sizes should be left up to the user ''unless a very good reason is provided''. I'm not sure where you're getting the numbers of 250px, 235px, and 1.14 from; those pages don't mention those values. There are only 85 templates that make use of the maxsize parameter; hardly 'many.' [[User:SWinxy|SWinxy]] ([[User talk:SWinxy|talk]]) 22:01, 19 March 2023 (UTC) |
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Would it be possible to add fields for Renovated/Renovated by/Renovated date? Sometimes with older buildings like castles and stately homes, there are significant additions over the centuries, often by notable architects. There is the "Rebuilt" field, but this implies the original was destroyed. Thank you! [[User:Kaliforniyka|<b>—Kaliforniyka</b>]]<sup>[[User talk:Kaliforniyka|Hi!]]</sup> 06:06, 21 July 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::This is a failure to read the entire section I linked. MOS:IMGSIZE says "Cases where fixed sizes may be used include for standardization of size via templates (such as within infobox templates or the display of country flag icons), for displaying reduced images sizes where space is constrained (such as..." [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 00:09, 20 March 2023 (UTC) |
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== native-names subheader will stop working as intended == |
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::::::Again, if you want to change the Image Use Policy, go there. See [[Wikipedia:Image use policy#Infobox and lead images]], [[MOS:IMGSIZE]], and [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&ns10=1&search=insource%3Amaxsize search results for "maxsize" use]. 85 extremely high-use templates is many. [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 00:10, 20 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::That's a small carveout exception for other usages so that editors aren't pedantic about templates like {{tlx|Flagicon}}. All the other text surmount to "don't use fixed pixel widths". I don't feel that the image use policy needs changing, because it is pretty explicit about not setting a fixed size. [[User:SWinxy|SWinxy]] ([[User talk:SWinxy|talk]]) 01:56, 20 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::The search for maxsize shows a lot of maxsize in infoboxes because you changed it[https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_historic_site&diff=prev&oldid=1136072940][https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template%3AInfobox_school&diff=1125963001&oldid=1101175129][https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_museum&diff=prev&oldid=1084528196]. I oppose fixed image size, and I can't see it is policy base to have fixed image sizes. MOS:IMGSIZE and [[Wikipedia:Image use policy#Infobox and lead images]] both says you should use upright. [[User:Christian75|Christian75]] ([[User talk:Christian75|talk]]) 07:54, 20 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::::"Small carveout exception", or in other words, policies and guidelines have small details you literally have to follow. I changed just a few infoboxes, and it looks like people largely agree with me. Several of these, including this case, were actually only restoring defaults that had existed for years and years until they were changed without discussion. [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 12:51, 20 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::::{{U|Ɱ}}: Where are all of these people who "largely agree with" you? Many of us have stated our objections to these fixed pixel sizes in multiple discussion over the past year or so. I can't recall anyone agreeing with your interpretation of the guidelines. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 17:36, 20 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::::::"I can't recall" isn't a good argument. As well, I have plenty of evidence of these parameters in use in extremely-high-use templates, for years to decades before your removals, and some for years after. Nobody else has recently objected enough to try to remove them, except for this user here, who wants them removed "for reasons". [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 18:40, 20 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::::::{{re|Jonesey95}} You proposed a solution to this debate at [[Template talk:Infobox bridge/Archive 2#Image and map widths|Template talk:Infobox bridge]]. I asked how it could happen twice and haven't heard back. If we could find a solution that works for both of us that would be very helpful. [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 18:44, 20 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::::::I asked for help [[Module_talk:InfoboxImage#Help_with_improving_default_image_sizes|here]], and the guidance was to use {{para|upright}} without specifying anything related to px sizes. I think if we just removed the default px and maxsize px, things would work fine. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 18:58, 20 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::::::::Thanks for looking into it. It looks slightly more complicated than that, as I can see from the Jan 2023 edits to {{tl|infobox language}}. Will investigate... [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 19:20, 20 March 2023 (UTC) |
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The {{tld|lang-??}} templates are going away ({{slink|Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2024_September_27|Replace_and_delete_lang-??_templates}}). As the {{tld|lang-??}} templates are deleted, the {{para|subheader}} parameter in {{tlx|Infobox}} will stop working as intended. Consider using multiple calls to {{tlx|native name}} or a single call to {{tlx|native name list}} or use {{tlx|langx}} in some way. The utility functions available from [[Module:Lang]] might also be helpful. |
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*{{green|The lead image in an infobox should not impinge on the default size of the infobox. ([[WP:IUP]])}} |
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:A fortnight gone without comment or action so I have reimplemented {{para|subheader}} with {{tlx|native name list}}. |
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*{{green|Cases where fixed sizes may be used include for standardization of size via templates (such as within infobox templates... ([[MOS:IMGSIZE]])}} |
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:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 12:56, 26 October 2024 (UTC) |
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*Not sure why users here are arguing against simple policies and guidelines. [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 12:53, 20 March 2023 (UTC) |
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== [[Tienda-Almacén Siempreviva]] == |
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Can {{ping|Hike395}} please pitch in on how to adjust this infobox to allow for scalable images and image maps? I was looking through your changes to the infobox language template. I was hoping we could find a solution without requiring new parameters, or are those optional? I am somewhat confused how that implementation functions. [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 19:30, 20 March 2023 (UTC) |
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Can any body help me as to how I can place in the Designation parameter that it is part of [[Puerto Rico Register of Historic Sites and Zones]][[User:Eljohnson15|El Johnson]] ([[User talk:Eljohnson15|talk]]) 19:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC) |
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I think {{tl|infobox NRHP}} may work well with the code "|sizedefault=frameless|upright=1.136" (or 1.14). Images scale up with the user preferences set for 400px. [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 21:24, 20 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:I wrote a version in the [[Template:Infobox historic site/sandbox|sandbox]] which accepts an upright parameter and a fixed size parameter for both {{para|image}} and {{para|image_map}} |
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:* Unfortunately, there's no easy way for pushpin maps ({{para|locmapin}}) to accept upright parameters |
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:* The upright parameter defaults to 1.14, with a maximum of 1.5 |
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:* The size parameter has a maximum of 325px. If it is unparsable as a number, it defaults to 250px |
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:* I had to add {{para|image_map_upright}} to accept an upright parameter for the image map. |
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:* If both upright and fixed size parameters are given, the fixed size overrides the upright. |
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:What do editors think? — [[User:Hike395|hike395]] ([[User talk:Hike395|talk]]) 05:47, 21 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::If the maximum size of 325px in the sandbox works, I think it is unnecessary and contrary to MOS. If I have a browser window that is 2000px wide and choose a thumb size in Preferences of 400px because everything else looks too small in comparison to the rest of the page, image declarations should respect that thumb size preference, so the max size in px should be removed. If, on the other hand, the upright value overrides the px value, which it presumably should, then the max px size in the template doesn't do anything and can be removed. I do not have the energy right now to create test cases to see what actually happens. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 13:51, 21 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::The Image Use Policy supersedes the MOS, a guideline. [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 14:06, 21 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::::I think you're missing that the IUP doesn't say that the infobox itself is limited to certain widths. Only that images inside them should conform to them. Further, the IUP offers a sample syntax that notably omits a fixed and maximum size. For infoboxes where a maximum size ''would be necessary'', the infobox can enforce it (but it's not said that the infobox should enforce it). Again and again, you cite IUP and the MoS as if they agree with what you want—but they are unambiguous in their text to use default image sizes ''whenever possible''. No infobox or yes infobox, the default is preferred, and it's up to the template to limit if it absolutely needs to. Is this a case of [[WP:ICANTHEARYOU]]? I'm getting deja vu from reading [[Template_talk:Infobox_bridge/Archive_2#Image_and_map_widths|this thread]] from last year. [[User:SWinxy|SWinxy]] ([[User talk:SWinxy|talk]]) 02:43, 22 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:::With that in mind, we can still allow users to scale up their own images in their preferences, but images should not be -set- at extraordinary widths that "impinge on the default size of the infobox." ([[WP:IUP]]) [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 14:10, 21 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::{{re|Hike395}} Looks great to me. [[User:Ɱ|<span style="text-shadow:#bbb 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em;" class="texhtml">'''ɱ'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ɱ|(talk)]] 14:19, 21 March 2023 (UTC) |
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{{od|2}} Some clarification and comments from me: |
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* The maxsize of 325px is only enforced on the fixed size parameters {{para|image_size}} and {{para|image_map_size}}. If an editor uses an argument that is larger than 325px, the infobox would clip it to 325px. This does ''not'' affect upright parameters {{para|image_upright}} and {{para|image_map_upright}}, which would act normally. For example, if a user has set a preference for a thumbnail size of 400px, and if no size parameters are specified, then the infobox image would display at 460px (400*1.14, rounded to nearest 10). |
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* The proposed code in the sandbox follows [[WP:IMAGESIZE]] and [[MOS:IMAGESIZE]]. It defaults to using {{para|upright|1.14}} for the image and the image map, following the MOS. If an editor has {{tq|a very good reason}} (quoting [[WP:IMAGESIZE]]), then they can override the {{para|upright|1.14}} default (with a fixed size). This override is also available under the usual [[WP:Extended image syntax|image syntax]] |
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* Infoboxes sometimes provide situations where there is a good reason to override user-adaptive image sizes with fixed sizes. For example, the pushpin map must have a fixed size, so having a very large image would leave unsightly white space in the infobox. I think we should leave an "escape hatch" in this (and other) infoboxes, so editors can specify a fixed width in these cases (subject, of course, to consensus at the article in question). |
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:{{U|Hike395}}, thanks for the detailed clarification. Your changes sound like they would allow for the best possible display of infobox images and would provide a good solution to {{U|Ɱ}}'s desire to prevent infobox images from becoming too large. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 15:00, 22 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::Thanks! I copied the sandbox to the live template. If anyone sees any issues, we can revert and discuss further. — [[User:Hike395|hike395]] ([[User talk:Hike395|talk]]) 05:44, 23 March 2023 (UTC) |
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Latest revision as of 18:32, 19 December 2024
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This page has archives. Sections older than 28 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 3 sections are present. |
Request renovation fields
[edit]Would it be possible to add fields for Renovated/Renovated by/Renovated date? Sometimes with older buildings like castles and stately homes, there are significant additions over the centuries, often by notable architects. There is the "Rebuilt" field, but this implies the original was destroyed. Thank you! —KaliforniykaHi! 06:06, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
native-names subheader will stop working as intended
[edit]The {{lang-??}} templates are going away (Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2024 September 27 § Replace and delete lang-?? templates). As the {{lang-??}} templates are deleted, the |subheader= parameter in {{Infobox}} will stop working as intended. Consider using multiple calls to {{native name}} or a single call to {{native name list}} or use {{langx}} in some way. The utility functions available from Module:Lang might also be helpful.
—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:53, 10 October 2024 (UTC)
- A fortnight gone without comment or action so I have reimplemented
|subheader=with{{native name list}}. - —Trappist the monk (talk) 12:56, 26 October 2024 (UTC)
Can any body help me as to how I can place in the Designation parameter that it is part of Puerto Rico Register of Historic Sites and ZonesEl Johnson (talk) 19:26, 18 December 2024 (UTC)