Talk:Irving Berlin: Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Latest revision as of 02:32, 25 December 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Irving Berlin article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1: 30 days

Biography: Actors and Filmmakers / Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
	This article is supported by WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers (assessed as High-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians (assessed as High-importance).

Musical Theatre

Irving Berlin is part of WikiProject Musical Theatre, organized to improve and complete musical theatre articles and coverage on Wikipedia. You can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.Musical TheatreWikipedia:WikiProject Musical TheatreTemplate:WikiProject Musical TheatreMusical Theatre

New York City Mid‑importance

	New York City portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject New York City, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of New York City-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.New York CityWikipedia:WikiProject New York CityTemplate:WikiProject New York CityNew York City
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Composers

This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Composers, a group of editors writing and developing biographical articles about composers of all eras and styles. The project discussion page is the place to talk about technical and editorial issues and exchange ideas. New members are welcome!ComposersWikipedia:WikiProject ComposersTemplate:WikiProject ComposersComposers

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on September 22, 2004.

pogroms

The article says:

"On September 14, 1893 the family arrived in New York City.... Tsar Alexander III of Russia and then Tsar Nicholas II, his son, had revived with utmost brutality the anti-Jewish pogroms, which created the spontaneous mass exodus to America. The pogroms were to continue until 1906, with thousands of other Jewish families also needing to escape, including those of George and Ira Gershwin, Al Jolson, Sophie Tucker, L. Wolfe Gilbert, Jack Yellen, Louis B. Mayer (of MGM), and the Warner brothers.^[1]^: 14 It has been suspected that the Beilin family also fled due to these pogroms, though there is no evidence to indicate that there were pogroms in Tolochin or Tyumen when the Beilins left for America. "

Almost all pogroms happened in 1905-1906. You don't have to be a mathematician to know that 1906 comes AFTER 1893. Thus pogroms of 1905-06 did not affect the Berlin family, living in New York. Nor were there any pogroms in Tyumen, where they lived before emigrating. The whole paragraph about pogroms has nothing to do with Irvin Berlin's biography, and I am greatly shortening it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:5680:1EAF:D0E8:B407:6BAD:2619 (talk) 02:14, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Cite error: The named reference Whitcomb was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

Age

In the WW1 section it says in 1917, Berlin was 30, but he'd be 29. Or is it supposed to be this way? 2603:8080:D400:7CD:2890:31AD:689D:148C (talk) 05:41, 27 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

The Back of Vinyl LP "The Waltzes of Irving Berlin".jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:38, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Birth Name

On the current version of this page it lists at the top his birth name as "Rusha Picking". I cannot find a source for this anywhere. Everywhere else on the page lists his birth name as Israel Beilin. This seems like a problem. Sallysballs (talk) 15:06, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It was just vandalism, by an IP. I've reverted it. Alarics (talk) 15:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mad magazine parody issue

The disputed (hysterical) parody lyrics are posted on the Internet archive. https://archive.org/details/sing-along-with-mad-1961/mode/2up Sing Along With MAD 1961 by E.C. Comics

I ran across this doing some course work, and want to flag it for Wikipedia. Apologies that I do not have time right now to read up on the editing process. Thank you. Madeine (talk) 20:28, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[Whitcomb-1] Cite error: The named reference Whitcomb was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[1]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+{{talk header}}
-{{Vital article|level=4|topic=People|class=B}}
+{{WikiProject banner shell|collapsed=yes|class=B|vital=yes|blp=no|listas=Berlin, Irving|1=
-{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1=
-{{WikiProject Biography|living=no|class=B|musician-work-group=yes|musician-priority=High|listas=Berlin, Irving|filmbio-work-group=yes|filmbio-priority=High}}
+{{WikiProject Biography|musician-work-group=yes|musician-priority=High|filmbio-work-group=yes|filmbio-priority=High}}
-{{WikiProject Musical Theatre|class=B}}
+{{WikiProject Musical Theatre}}
-{{WikiProject New York City|class=B|importance=}}
+{{WikiProject New York City|importance=mid}}
-{{WikiProject Composers|class=}}
+{{WikiProject Composers}}
-{{WP1.0|v0.7=pass|class=B|category=Arts|importance=ZZ}}
 }}
 {{OnThisDay|date1=2004-09-22|oldid1=16335425}}
@@ Line 16: / Line 15: @@
 |algo = old(30d)
 |archive = Talk:Irving Berlin/Archive %(counter)d
-}}
-{{Archives |search=yes |bot=MiszaBot I |age=1 |units=month |index=/Archive index }}
-{{User:HBC Archive Indexerbot/OptIn
-|target=/Archive index |mask=/Archive <#> |leading_zeros=0 |indexhere=yes
 }}
-== Place of Birth ==
+== pogroms ==
+The article says:
-Irving Berlin's daughter, Mary Ellin Barrett, offers the following to support the claim that Berlin was born in Siberia: "Later-day research by my sister Linda [Emmett] indicates that my father was probably born in western Siberia, in Tyumen (sometimes given as Tumen or Temnun), which is what appears on documents from 1942 on. Confusion arose because the Baline ''family'' came from the village of Tolochin in Byelorussia. That was where... Moses and Leah [Berlin's parents] returned after their house burned, and from where they set out to America. Tolochin was in the township of the larger and better known Mogilev - and Mogilev was what... my father put on his naturalization papers and his marriage license. Sometime between 1925 and 1942 he must have had confirmation that he himself was indeed born in Siberia, that his father, an itinerant cantor, had migrated to Tyumen." [original italics].  Mary Ellin Barrett (1994). Irving Berlin: A Daughter's Memoir. Simon & Schuster. footnote on pp. 98-99. {{ISBN|1439170967}}.  [[User:MackayWara]] 15:55, 23 May 2014
+"On September 14, 1893 the family arrived in New York City.... Tsar [[Alexander III of Russia]] and then Tsar [[Nicholas II of Russia|Nicholas II]], his son, had revived with utmost brutality the anti-Jewish [[pogrom]]s, which created the spontaneous mass exodus to America. The pogroms were to continue until 1906, with thousands of other Jewish families also needing to escape, including those of [[George Gershwin|George]] and [[Ira Gershwin]], [[Al Jolson]], [[Sophie Tucker]], [[L. Wolfe Gilbert]], [[Jack Yellen]], [[Louis B. Mayer]] (of [[MGM]]), and the [[Warner Bros.|Warner brothers]].<ref name=Whitcomb/>{{rp|14}} It has been suspected that the Beilin family also fled due to these pogroms, though there is no evidence to indicate that there were pogroms in Tolochin or Tyumen when the Beilins left for America. "
-There seems to be no agreement about his place of birth. Half of the pages say it's Siberia. And half of the pages say it's [[Mahilyow]] (Mogilev), [[Belarus]] (then under Russian empire). --[[User:Rydel|rydel]] 00:34, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
+Almost all  pogroms happened in 1905-1906. You don't have to be a mathematician to know that 1906 comes AFTER 1893.  Thus pogroms of 1905-06 did not affect the Berlin family, living in New York. Nor were there any pogroms in Tyumen,  where they lived before emigrating.  The whole paragraph about pogroms has nothing to do with Irvin Berlin's biography, and I am greatly shortening it. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/2601:647:5680:1EAF:D0E8:B407:6BAD:2619|2601:647:5680:1EAF:D0E8:B407:6BAD:2619]] ([[User talk:2601:647:5680:1EAF:D0E8:B407:6BAD:2619#top|talk]]) 02:14, 30 January 2019 (UTC)</small>
+{{talkref}}
-There's no agreement on his draft registration cards, either, just so you know.  (They're available at Ancestry.com, if you've got a subscription.)  On the card for World War I, he stated he was born in Mogilev.  On his card for World War II, his place of birth switches to Tehmen.
-== rodgers==
+== Age ==
-added a "d" to richard "rogers" (now "rodgers"); the wrong one was linked.
+In the WW1 section it says in 1917, Berlin was 30, but he'd be 29. Or is it supposed to be this way? [[Special:Contributions/2603:8080:D400:7CD:2890:31AD:689D:148C|2603:8080:D400:7CD:2890:31AD:689D:148C]] ([[User talk:2603:8080:D400:7CD:2890:31AD:689D:148C|talk]]) 05:41, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
-== family name ==
-I've changed the family name back from "Beilin" to "Baline" on the authority of the book by Berlin's daughter, Mary Ellin Barrett. "Baline" is the form used by the family itself, in spite of whatever immigration officials wrote down.  His name was spelled IRWING, not Irving...  "w" is pronounced as a "v".
+== A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion ==
-== pictorial matter ==
+The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
-In my revision of this article, several images have disappeared, including a portrait of Berlin on the cover of TIME magazine. These should be restored, but I don't know how to do this.
+* [[commons:File:The Back of Vinyl LP "The Waltzes of Irving Berlin".jpg|The Back of Vinyl LP "The Waltzes of Irving Berlin".jpg]]<!-- COMMONSBOT: discussion | 2023-06-05T23:38:16.344468 | The Back of Vinyl LP "The Waltzes of Irving Berlin".jpg -->
+Participate in the deletion discussion at the [[commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:The Back of Vinyl LP "The Waltzes of Irving Berlin".jpg|nomination page]]. —[[User:Community Tech bot|Community Tech bot]] ([[User talk:Community Tech bot|talk]]) 23:38, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
-== pogroms ==
-The article says:
+== Birth Name  ==
-"On September 14, 1893 the family arrived in New York City.... Tsar [[Alexander III of Russia]] and then Tsar [[Nicholas II of Russia|Nicholas II]], his son, had revived with utmost brutality the anti-Jewish [[pogrom]]s, which created the spontaneous mass exodus to America. The pogroms were to continue until 1906, with thousands of other Jewish families also needing to escape, including those of [[George Gershwin|George]] and [[Ira Gershwin]], [[Al Jolson]], [[Sophie Tucker]], [[L. Wolfe Gilbert]], [[Jack Yellen]], [[Louis B. Mayer]] (of [[MGM]]), and the [[Warner Bros.|Warner brothers]].<ref name=Whitcomb/>{{rp|14}} It has been suspected that the Beilin family also fled due to these pogroms, though there is no evidence to indicate that there were pogroms in Tolochin or Tyumen when the Beilins left for America. "
+On the current version of this page it lists at the top his birth name as "Rusha Picking". I cannot find a source for this anywhere. Everywhere else on the page lists his birth name as Israel Beilin. This seems like a problem. [[User:Sallysballs|Sallysballs]] ([[User talk:Sallysballs|talk]]) 15:06, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
+:It was just vandalism, by an IP. I've reverted it. [[User:Alarics|Alarics]] ([[User talk:Alarics|talk]]) 15:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
+== Mad magazine parody issue ==
+The disputed (hysterical) parody lyrics are posted on the Internet archive.
+https://archive.org/details/sing-along-with-mad-1961/mode/2up
+Sing Along With MAD 1961 by E.C. Comics
+I ran across this doing some course work, and want to flag it for Wikipedia. Apologies that I do not have time right now to read up on the editing process. Thank you. [[User:Madeine|Madeine]] ([[User talk:Madeine|talk]]) 20:28, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
-Almost all  pogroms happened in 1905-1906. You don't have to be a mathematician to know that 1906 comes AFTER 1893.  Thus pogroms of 1905-06 did not affect the Berlin family, living in New York. Nor were there any pogroms in Tyumen,  where they lived before emigrating.  The whole paragraph about pogroms has nothing to do with Irvin Berlin's biography, and I am greatly shortening it.