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== Theatre vs Theater Spelling ==

[[User:Oknazevad|Oknazevad]] brought up a good point when revising my edit on [[Theatre]] regarding the spelling of the word ‘theatre’/‘theater’ and I wanted to make a section here in case anyone had any input. The short description of the article uses the spelling ‘theatre’ yet the article used the spelling ‘theater’. I switched the article spelling to be ‘theatre’ and cited my beliefs regarding the spelling, however as [[User:Oknazevad|Oknazevad]] brought to my attention when reverting my [[Theatre]] edit, there are reliable publications that use the two interchangeably. So spelling preference to the side, I kept the spelling ‘theatre’ in the article for uniformity as it was not matching the spelling that was used in the short description. If anyone has any opinions on this, or strongly believes that the short description should be changed to ‘theater’ instead — please! Share your thoughts.

Thank you! [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 05:41, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

:I prefer "theater" [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 07:12, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
:Per [[MOS:COMMONALITY]], the most common spelling should be used, which according to [[MOS:S]] is "theatre" — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 08:15, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
::I'm indifferent about the spelling, as it doesn't actually make a difference either way. There was a mention that the words have different meanings, but it's actally a British vs. American English thing. Both words refer to the art form and the location. There should be consistency, using either -er for both or -re for both. [[User:GaryColemanFan|GaryColemanFan]] ([[User talk:GaryColemanFan|talk]]) 15:32, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
:::I agree that consistency is all that truly matters at the end of the day. But so long as the debate seems to have some heat behind it, figured might as well just decide on one. I’m personally gonna have to agree with [[User:Czello|Czello]] and say that it remain ‘Theatre’ - [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 21:38, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
::The population of the US is more than that of Canada, New Zealand, Australia, UK, and Ireland combined. Therefore "theater" is the most common spelling by number of people using that spelling. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 18:13, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
:::I don't think we go off population, we go off number of regions as laid out at [[MOS:S]]. This logic would mean we always use American spellings, which we don't. — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 10:07, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
::::I couldn’t agree more with this right here. Absolutely. I found the population argument to be weak justification but it seems as though despite the ongoing discussion, [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] took the liberty of changing the spelling in the article and short description to ‘theater’ anyway.
::::I have now been reverted twice for my edit so I can’t really do much about that I suppose. I just found it to be in bad taste. [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 13:23, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
::::The problem with regions is that you can cut up the world into any arbitrary number of regions. Like, how about we divide the UK into Wales and Scotland and England and Northern Ireland? Three additional regions right there. And then we can cut the US into fifty states.
::::Also, this article is about an American art form. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 13:59, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
:::::Pro wrestling is not exclusively American nor the domain of it. America has its own form, this is about a broader subject. Ultimately [[MOS:S]] details the regional varieties of English that Wikipedia has in its MOS, where "Theatre" is the most common. — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 14:01, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
::::::Where in the rules does it say we must go by number of regions? [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 16:38, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Where does it say we go by population? Also given that the US uses both "theater" and "theatre", with no specific breakdown on how much of the population accepts the former, I can't see why we would go for "theater". It's disproportionately American-centric. — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 18:29, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
:::::::And even still, despite it not being exclusively American, the origin really are irrelevant anyway. The origin of the subject should not affect how the article is written. Otherwise, why aren’t articles in English Wikipedia about Mandarin not written in Mandarin? Why are articles about the Eiffel Tower not written in French? [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 20:18, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
:::::{{Blockquote|
:::::|text= ''<mark>A tradition of combining wrestling and showmanship may originate in the early 1800s in Western Europe, Britain and Ireland</mark>, when showmen presented wrestlers under names such as ""Herculean" Flower" and "Edward, the steel eater", "Gustave d'Avignon, the bone wrecker", or "Bonnet, the ox of the low Alps" and would wrestle one another and challenge members of the public to attempt to knock them down or wrestle them for money.''<br/><br/><br/>''<mark>The modern style of professional wrestling, popularized by the United States <i><b>and</b></i> United Kingdom</mark> during the late 19th century, is called the catch-as-catch can style. Originally thought of as unorthodox and more lax in style, catch wrestling differs from Greco-Roman in its allowed grapples; Greco-Roman strictly prohibits grabbing below the waist, while catch wrestling allows holds above and below the waist, including leg grips. Both catch wrestling and Greco-Roman were popular, and fully competitive, amateur and professional sports. But, from the late 19th century onwards, a sub-section of catch wrestling changed slowly into the choreographed sport entertainment now known as "professional wrestling", recognized as much for its theatrical antics and entertainment as wrestling ability.''
:::::|source=[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_professional_wrestling#Origins '''''History of professional wrestling''''' ''#Origin''] }} [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 20:14, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm doing my own research into professional wrestling and it seems that pro wrestling is a quintessentially American invention, so American spelling feels more appropriate. And I've already pointed out that population is a more appropriate measure of "commonality" than region because you can subdivide regions into any arbitrary number of smaller regions. I think more people in the world use the spelling "theater" than "theatre". [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 20:19, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

:Would you share your findings that brought you to this conclusion? I’d be curious to read what made you come to the conclusion that professional wrestling is a quintessentially American invention. Also, again, it’s the English Wikipedia not American Wikipedia. It makes no sense to do that based on what you have concluded in your own private research. Would that not go against the nature of Wikipedia entirely? [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 20:22, 24 April 2023 (UTC)

{{reply to|4theloveofallthings}} The book I'm studying is ''Ringside'' by Prof. Scott Beekman, which as far as a I can tell is the only history book on pro wrestling written by an academic. He writes that theatrical wrestling developed in America after the civil war, when wrestlers discovered that they could make their matches more entertaining if they rigged them. Beekman makes no mention of British wrestling except to trace the origins of catch wrestling. Catch wrestling may have been invented in Britain and Ireland, but it was the Americans who turned it into theatre. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 08:03, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

:None of that matters. The controlling aspect is [[WP:RETAIN]]. We don't change the variety of English used without justification like strong national ties. There are no such ties here. Whether or not professional wrestling as a performance art originated in the US is irrelevant, as it's practiced worldwide.

:And the claim that the "-re" and "-er" spellings have different meanings in American English (the art form and the venue, respectively) is incorrect. It's a sadly increasing misconception among young Americans (they must be getting misinformed in schools) but it's plainly not true. Fun fact, of the 41 Tony Award-eligible Broadway venues, 38 of them use the "theatre" spelling in their name. Only 2 use "theater" and [[Studio 54]] doesn't use the word at all. Oh, and the country's largest cinema chain is AMC Theatres. No live performance there at all.

:All this is to say, the -er spelling is getting put back, because it was the existing variety and needs to be retained. [[User:Oknazevad|oknazevad]] ([[User talk:Oknazevad|talk]]) 12:06, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
::But by you just saying that the National tie holds no value, you only strengthened the argument to keep it as ‘re’. I already agreed with you (as stated in my initial post in this discussion) that the use of it regarding different meanings of the word is irrelevant to the discussion. All that was relevant was the fact that the short description used ‘re’ and the article used ‘er’. Given it was a debated topic, I appropriately started a discussion about it here on the talk page and [[User:Czello|Czello]] was the only one to bring logic to the discussion based on the terms set by Wikipedia regarding regional usage. I apologize for my candid statement right here, but I feel like this slipped into an ego match and the inability to admit that my edit was appropriate and warranted.
::That being said, I am done debating the topic. You can do as you please. I just don’t think it does much to respect the spirit of Wikipedia.
::Regards [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 04:15, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
:::Ego fight? Wow, you think our sense of self-worth hinges on something so petty? [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 06:55, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
::::No. I couldn’t possibly know that, as I do not know you. I said it felt as though that was what was happening — as I am fairly new to editing on Wikipedia. I should have perhaps not used that wording, as the last thing I intend to do is start an argument. I apologize. [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 08:53, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
:::The point is the article body already used the -er spelling, and has since long before short descriptions were introduced, so that should be left in. The short description was the one that was incorrect in using the -re spelling. [[User:Oknazevad|oknazevad]] ([[User talk:Oknazevad|talk]]) 03:26, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
::::I do want to point out on my departure however that it does not sit well with me that the purpose of starting a discussion about the topic was to come to a consensus — yet when the opinions were split 50/50 on the issue — for whatever reason — you declared your opinion more valid than mine and [[User:Czello|Czello]]’s.
::::As stated before, I think it was pretty distasteful and goes against the spirit of Wikipedia.. however, what is my opinion anyway when matched against the valor of yours, oh mighty [[User:Oknazevad|Oknazevad]]? '''/LH'''
::::LOL.
::::Take it easy. [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 10:24, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
:::::Because Wikipedia-wide guidelines should be followed unless there is a particularly good reason to ignore them. Especially when the whole point of the [[WP:ENGVAR]] guideline is to prevent needlessly long discussions on every article talk page exactly like this one. It's not me being "mighty", it's me being experienced and informed. I've just been here a very long time. Possibly longer than you've been alive; registered my username 19 years ago in August and was already using the site before registering. (I feel old.) [[User:Oknazevad|oknazevad]] ([[User talk:Oknazevad|talk]]) 12:05, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
::::<blockquote>
::::<mark>'''''<u>The point is</u>'''''</mark> the article body already used the -er spelling, and has since long before short descriptions were introduced, so that should be left in. The short description was the one that was incorrect in using the -re spelling.
::::&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;''-[[User:Oknazevad|Oknazevad]]''
::::</blockquote>
::::<br>
Hrmmm…
<br>
I searched ''at length'' for this point you seem to have just clarified beautifully right there but failed to locate it. Perhaps I’m just a ''misinformed young American.''
<br>
<br>
That makes total sense to me. '''Case closed.'''
::::<br>
You have a good day now!
::::<br>
Best, [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 10:06, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Honestly I am OK with "theatre" but I don't want us to go with that based on unsound arguments. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 12:42, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

:[[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]], [[User:Oknazevad|Oknazevad]], [[User:Czello|Czello]]:
:Not to open an old wound.. but..
:[[American Ballet Theatre]]
:[[American Broadcasting-Paramount Theatres]]
:[[American Film Theatre]]
:[[American Airlines Theatre]] (great examples of how 'Theatre' the art form and 'Theater' is the place.)
:[[American Theatre Wing]]
:[[Long Wharf Theatre]]
:[[Queens Theatre in the Park]]
:[[CIBC Theatre]]
:[[History of theatre]] [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 09:21, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
::While I do prefer "theatre" for the reasons I illustrated previously, Oknazevad is correct that the relevant policy is [[WP:RETAIN]] (not one I agree with as I find it to be somewhat arbitrary, but hey). — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 13:21, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
::"Theatre" and "theater" are both acceptable spellings. Just leave it alone. [[User:Oknazevad|oknazevad]] ([[User talk:Oknazevad|talk]]) 15:34, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
:::It’s [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] and the reverting of all edits to this article as if it were theirs that irks me most.
:::3,202 editors have edited this article.
:::and 45% of the article’s content is written by [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]]
:::as noted below, when edits are being barred and reverted on the basis of things like “a sport is required to be competitive” and yet the literal dictionary begs to differ… it makes you question how much of this article is just made up of [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]]’s own opinions. I mean look no further than above when their own personal research that they couldn’t even reference was used as a source.
:::When the article that this is taking place on is the most important in it’s WikiProject and the article is visited by a gigantic amount of traffic, I think it would be a bit absurd not to question [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]]’s actions like seems to be the go-to approach to his disregard for the standards of Wikipedia.
:::So I agree with the person below this section. This article <b>is</b> ridiculous.
:::All the best! [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 23:12, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
::::And because I dared call attention to it, I was baselessly accused of sock puppetry. It’s not only distributive behavior, it’s harmful behavior. [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 23:16, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

==Essay?==
{{ping|GaryColemanFan}} How is this article too opinionated? Point out the problematic bits. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 10:10, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
:It's already been explained to you numerous times, but you dismiss everyone's concerns. Your WP:OWNership of the article is problematic, as you have turned it into a screed instead of an article. [[User:GaryColemanFan|GaryColemanFan]] ([[User talk:GaryColemanFan|talk]]) 02:06, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
::Not helpful. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 03:21, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]], sounds like you're against constructive feedback. Saying "not helpful" is standoffish. You don't need to be defensive. You asked and he answered, IF you don't like what people say in response, don't ask. Plus, all articles are not about what you think. They are [[WP:NPOV]]. You know this. It's one of the fundamentals of Wikipedia. <span style="background:red"><span style="color:white">Mr. C.C.</span><sup>[[User talk:Mr. C.C.|<span style="color:white">Hey yo!</span>]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Mr. C.C.|<span style="color:white">I didn't do it!</span>]]</sub></span> 21:47, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

== “Conceit” ==

I found the following fragment potentially confusing: {{tq|'''conceit''' being that the performers are competitive wrestlers.}} I would suggest that “conceit” is replaced by a more common, simple term. '''[[User:Starship.paint|<span style="color:#512888">starship</span>]][[Special:Contributions/Starship.paint|<span style="color:#512888">.paint</span>]] ([[User talk:Starship.paint|exalt]])''' 16:06, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

:@[[User:Starship.paint|Starship.paint]], you're on Wikipedia, so you know you can tweak and edit articles if something doesn't make sense or to make it sound better. If "conceit" is not the proper word, change it. A fundamental is to "be bold." <span style="background:red"><span style="color:white">Mr. C.C.</span><sup>[[User talk:Mr. C.C.|<span style="color:white">Hey yo!</span>]]</sup><sub>[[Special:Contributions/Mr. C.C.|<span style="color:white">I didn't do it!</span>]]</sub></span> 21:42, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

== Theater vs Exhibition ==

I had not looked at Professional Wrestling Wiki section for an extremely long time, and I came across the theater language. I was going to change it from theater to "Athletic Exhibition" but decided that I may be accused of starting an editing war due to it being an opinion or personal distaste. The word exhibition has been used for years to describe Professional Wrestling in the context of being a sport, but with predetermined outcomes. Can we vote to change it? [[User:Cmy869|Cmy869]] ([[User talk:Cmy869|talk]]) 21:27, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

:I '''oppose'''. An exhibition is just a staged match, but pro wrestling these days also has characters and storylines. It's theater. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 06:40, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
::but its not talking about storylines promos or anything its just talking about the sport pro wrestling its gotta be changed [[Special:Contributions/2603:B068:10A0:0:C942:A80E:578C:227C|2603:B068:10A0:0:C942:A80E:578C:227C]] ([[User talk:2603:B068:10A0:0:C942:A80E:578C:227C|talk]]) 19:48, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

== So what exactly is this, then? ==

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdrjep51uNY]<br/> Would particularly like a reply from {{u|Kurzon}} given the direction of recent edits. [[User:Romomusicfan|Romomusicfan]] ([[User talk:Romomusicfan|talk]]) 12:38, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

:[[Catch wrestling]]. We have a separate article on it. [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 12:44, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

:: But it's in a ring just like pro wrestling with three count pinfalls and submissions and all the same rules as pro wrestling (at least old school Euro pro, what with the rounds) and of course Billy Robinson was a professional wrestler, through and through, Wigan shooter though he was.
:: I think there should be some acknowledgement in the article that it is at least <u>possible</u> to do pro-style wrestling as a legit sport.
:: Perhaps with a mention of this tournament and the rules <s>Robinson</s> Karl Gotch drew up for such competition as reprinted in <s>Johnathan Snowden's book "Shooters The Toughest Men in Pro Wrestling"</s> Jake Shannon"s book"Say Uncle! Catch-as-Catch-Can" ECW Press 2011, p201(source alert! ) [[User:Romomusicfan|Romomusicfan]] ([[User talk:Romomusicfan|talk]]) 12:51, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
::: Apologies, wrong book cited. Corrected as per above with full cite details.[[User:Romomusicfan|Romomusicfan]] ([[User talk:Romomusicfan|talk]]) 19:20, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Catch wrestling is a real sport. Professional wrestling is not a sport, it's theater. In fact, I think "professional wrestling" should be called "theatrical wrestling" instead, but the fans love kayfabe too much. Your arguments are specious. I do not understand why so many people insist on defending pro wrestling as a sport. There's nothing wrong with it being theater. Our job as Wikipedia editors is to tell the truth. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 13:25, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

:Professional wrestling is named as such because typically it's easier/more common to make a profession in the scripted version of wrestling than in amateur/catch/Olympic wrestling, where wrestlers perform less regularly, in less profitable environments, to a much smaller audience. It's not because of kayfabe, as the vast majority of fans are aware of its scripted nature. — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 19:29, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

::::If it is feasible to have catch wrestling competition with all the rules and trappings of professional wrestling, then professional- style wrestling is at least a potential legitimate sport. I would propose an acknowledgement of this in the text along these lines:

''It is nonetheless feasible to have catch wrestling competition with all the rules and trappings of professional wrestling (roped elevated quadrilateral ring, submission and three count pinfall as equal goals, etc). A rules system for such competition was devised by professional wrestling champion and catch wrestling coach [[Karl Gotch]] for fellow catch wrestler Jake Shannon's "King of Catch" tournaments<ref>"Say Uncle! Catch-as-Catch-Can" Jake Shannon, ECW Press 2011, p201</ref> and similar rules were employed for a 2018 tournament in memory of another professional wrestling champion and catch wrestling coach [[Billy Robinson]].<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdrjep51uNY</ref>'' {{Reflist}}

:::: I think this would help address the neutrality concerns flagged in the banner on the article and some of the concerns raised by users above.[[User:Romomusicfan|Romomusicfan]] ([[User talk:Romomusicfan|talk]]) 19:44, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::This is a different thing. If you want to add more material about modern competition at [[Catch wrestling]] that would be helpful, but this article is the wrong place. [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 19:50, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::: If it is still physically possible - and has been attempted by qualified persons - in this day and age to hold a pro wrestling Shoot then it has relevance to the article. [[User:Romomusicfan|Romomusicfan]] ([[User talk:Romomusicfan|talk]]) 19:56, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
:::::::Shoots are so rare in pro wrestling as to be insignificant. Furthermore, in many states pro wrestling is legally defined as non-sport. And when I watch pro wrestling, I see them pull stunts that could only happen if the wrestlers cooperate.
::::::::Saying that it can be attempted as a shoot is like saying that a movie gunfight could in theory be done for real. Technically true, hot relevant. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 04:31, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
::::::::: So what is the difference - if any? - between Jacobs-Hammer (2018 - clip posted at the top of this thread) and old time pro wrestling public shooting matches such as, say, Gotch-Hackenshmidt I (1908), [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz-OdoEr0SQ Stecher-Caddock II (1920)] or even [[Wladek Zbyszko]]-[https://www.wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=bios&wrestler=7549 Fred Grubmier] (circa 1920s)? [[User:Romomusicfan|Romomusicfan]] ([[User talk:Romomusicfan|talk]]) 08:01, 4 October 2023 (UTC)



=="Atheltic theatre"==
In an earlier discussion, I accepted that the adjective "athletic" could apply to professional wrestling as a type of theatre if you stretch the definition a little, but do we really need that word there? It's fairly obvious, and little superfluous. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 05:45, 11 February 2024 (UTC)


:I don't think it's superfluous – it illustrates why pro wrestling is different to regular, traditional theatre. The athleticism of pro wrestling is a vital part of the genre; the adjective (which is well sourced, mind) illustrates that.
== Glossary of professional wrestling terms ==
:Respectfully, I think it's time to drop this. There was a lot discussion over this one word previously, and you've edit warred to remove it more recently. It's an accurate adjective – why does this one word vex you this much? I would not be the first person to mention [[WP:OWN]]. — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 11:41, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
:Theatre in the traditional sense is not athletic. Wrestling being a heavily athletic form of theatre makes it unique in the world of theatre, and thus warrants the elaboration. You "accepting" something is grand, and certainly not the aim of anyone's editing. You do not own the article. Perhaps spend some time editing other articles rather than terrorizing the editors who contribute to this one -- as if your approval is needed in order to let an edit remain. It absolutely is not. Cheers! [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 20:18, 25 February 2024 (UTC)


== Not a wrestling guy, but I think there might be an error in the article? ==
Almost all of the links to that article don't automatically go to the specific term. [[Special:Contributions/143.44.196.159|143.44.196.159]] ([[User talk:143.44.196.159|talk]]) 10:54, 14 October 2023 (UTC)


Under Countout: "In some promotions (and most major modern ones), Championships are depicted as being permitted to change hands via a countout, unless the on-screen authority declares it for at least one match, although in others, championships may change hands via countout."
== Notable People ==


Is it just me or some other people but i think rey mysterio should be in this catorgory anyone else agree? [[Special:Contributions/206.168.50.221|206.168.50.221]] ([[User talk:206.168.50.221|talk]]) 18:45, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
To me, this reads like you're missing a "not" after "depicted as"? I don't know enough about wrestling to feel confident changing it, though. [[User:Vtipoman|Vtipoman]] ([[User talk:Vtipoman|talk]]) 18:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC)


:You're completely right. I've fixed this but rewritten most of the paragraph to improve the language. — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 07:02, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
== scripted athletic exhibition ==
== "[[:Pkiro Wrokestling]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Pkiro_Wrokestling&redirect=no Pkiro Wrokestling]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 June 14#Pkiro Wrokestling}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Dsuke1998AEOS|Dsuke1998AEOS]] ([[User talk:Dsuke1998AEOS|talk]]) 18:29, 14 June 2024 (UTC)


== Incomplete history section ==
scripted athletic exhibition is better and desribes it better so dont change it until you comment here with why it should be changed then change it then ill see it so i determine if i should revert it or not [[User:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life]] ([[User talk:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|talk]]) 22:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)


The history tab ends with the death of WCW. It should have made some mention, even a small one, of ECW given that they were the third national promotion at this time. It should also continue on to discuss the modern era of professional wrestling, especially the emergence of TNA and AEW [[Special:Contributions/174.92.68.241|174.92.68.241]] ([[User talk:174.92.68.241|talk]]) 18:23, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
:Please see the other plentiful discussions around this wording above — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 23:03, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
::i see it but i personally dont agree if we could sit and talk on this subject you could tell me why theater describes it better then scripted athletic exhibition (i will not change it until we are done talking if i change it at all [[User:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life]] ([[User talk:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|talk]]) 23:20, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
:::and now im only gonna change it to get your attention in about 5 mins but im only gonna do it to get your attention no disrespect [[User:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life]] ([[User talk:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|talk]]) 23:23, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
::::Making the same change will not work. You need to get people to agree, here on the talk page. Repeating the same edits will just get you blocked. [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 23:25, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::ok but can we still talk on why theater is better wording to describe pro wrestling then scripted athletic exhibition any one can reply [[User:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life]] ([[User talk:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|talk]]) 23:27, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::It's supported by reliable sourcing, which is how Wikipedia works. We don't form wording on our own opinion, but on what other sources say. Also I'd advise you not to change it to get people's attention, [[WP:POINT|it's considered disruptive]] — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 23:37, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::im sorry i just started and i really wanna know why theatre is better wording then scripted athletic exhibition im sorry ive only made 10 edits im sorry im depressed and i just wanna end it im sorry im stupid im sorry im an idiot im sorry. [[User:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life]] ([[User talk:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|talk]]) 23:43, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::It's fine. I'd just advise you to read [[WP:RS]] and [[WP:CONSENSUS]]. We've arrived at the current wording after long discussions around what the sources say, which is athletic theatre. — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 23:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 18:23, 27 December 2024

"Atheltic theatre"

[edit]

In an earlier discussion, I accepted that the adjective "athletic" could apply to professional wrestling as a type of theatre if you stretch the definition a little, but do we really need that word there? It's fairly obvious, and little superfluous. Kurzon (talk) 05:45, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's superfluous – it illustrates why pro wrestling is different to regular, traditional theatre. The athleticism of pro wrestling is a vital part of the genre; the adjective (which is well sourced, mind) illustrates that.
Respectfully, I think it's time to drop this. There was a lot discussion over this one word previously, and you've edit warred to remove it more recently. It's an accurate adjective – why does this one word vex you this much? I would not be the first person to mention WP:OWN. — Czello (music) 11:41, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Theatre in the traditional sense is not athletic. Wrestling being a heavily athletic form of theatre makes it unique in the world of theatre, and thus warrants the elaboration. You "accepting" something is grand, and certainly not the aim of anyone's editing. You do not own the article. Perhaps spend some time editing other articles rather than terrorizing the editors who contribute to this one -- as if your approval is needed in order to let an edit remain. It absolutely is not. Cheers! 4theloveofallthings (talk) 20:18, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not a wrestling guy, but I think there might be an error in the article?

[edit]

Under Countout: "In some promotions (and most major modern ones), Championships are depicted as being permitted to change hands via a countout, unless the on-screen authority declares it for at least one match, although in others, championships may change hands via countout."

To me, this reads like you're missing a "not" after "depicted as"? I don't know enough about wrestling to feel confident changing it, though. Vtipoman (talk) 18:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You're completely right. I've fixed this but rewritten most of the paragraph to improve the language. — Czello (music) 07:02, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Pkiro Wrokestling" listed at Redirects for discussion

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The redirect Pkiro Wrokestling has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 June 14 § Pkiro Wrokestling until a consensus is reached. Dsuke1998AEOS (talk) 18:29, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Incomplete history section

[edit]

The history tab ends with the death of WCW. It should have made some mention, even a small one, of ECW given that they were the third national promotion at this time. It should also continue on to discuss the modern era of professional wrestling, especially the emergence of TNA and AEW 174.92.68.241 (talk) 18:23, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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