Talk:Professional wrestling: Difference between revisions
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=="Atheltic theatre"== |
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== Theater vs Exhibition == |
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In an earlier discussion, I accepted that the adjective "athletic" could apply to professional wrestling as a type of theatre if you stretch the definition a little, but do we really need that word there? It's fairly obvious, and little superfluous. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 05:45, 11 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:I don't think it's superfluous – it illustrates why pro wrestling is different to regular, traditional theatre. The athleticism of pro wrestling is a vital part of the genre; the adjective (which is well sourced, mind) illustrates that. |
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I had not looked at Professional Wrestling Wiki section for an extremely long time, and I came across the theater language. I was going to change it from theater to "Athletic Exhibition" but decided that I may be accused of starting an editing war due to it being an opinion or personal distaste. The word exhibition has been used for years to describe Professional Wrestling in the context of being a sport, but with predetermined outcomes. Can we vote to change it? [[User:Cmy869|Cmy869]] ([[User talk:Cmy869|talk]]) 21:27, 20 September 2023 (UTC) |
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:Respectfully, I think it's time to drop this. There was a lot discussion over this one word previously, and you've edit warred to remove it more recently. It's an accurate adjective – why does this one word vex you this much? I would not be the first person to mention [[WP:OWN]]. — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 11:41, 11 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:Theatre in the traditional sense is not athletic. Wrestling being a heavily athletic form of theatre makes it unique in the world of theatre, and thus warrants the elaboration. You "accepting" something is grand, and certainly not the aim of anyone's editing. You do not own the article. Perhaps spend some time editing other articles rather than terrorizing the editors who contribute to this one -- as if your approval is needed in order to let an edit remain. It absolutely is not. Cheers! [[User:4theloveofallthings|4theloveofallthings]] ([[User talk:4theloveofallthings|talk]]) 20:18, 25 February 2024 (UTC) |
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== Not a wrestling guy, but I think there might be an error in the article? == |
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:I '''oppose'''. An exhibition is just a staged match, but pro wrestling these days also has characters and storylines. It's theater. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 06:40, 21 September 2023 (UTC) |
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::but its not talking about storylines promos or anything its just talking about the sport pro wrestling its gotta be changed [[Special:Contributions/2603:B068:10A0:0:C942:A80E:578C:227C|2603:B068:10A0:0:C942:A80E:578C:227C]] ([[User talk:2603:B068:10A0:0:C942:A80E:578C:227C|talk]]) 19:48, 17 November 2023 (UTC) |
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Under Countout: "In some promotions (and most major modern ones), Championships are depicted as being permitted to change hands via a countout, unless the on-screen authority declares it for at least one match, although in others, championships may change hands via countout." |
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== So what exactly is this, then? == |
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To me, this reads like you're missing a "not" after "depicted as"? I don't know enough about wrestling to feel confident changing it, though. [[User:Vtipoman|Vtipoman]] ([[User talk:Vtipoman|talk]]) 18:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC) |
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:[[Catch wrestling]]. We have a separate article on it. [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 12:44, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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== "[[:Pkiro Wrokestling]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] == |
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[[File:Information.svg|30px]] |
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The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Pkiro_Wrokestling&redirect=no Pkiro Wrokestling]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 June 14#Pkiro Wrokestling}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Dsuke1998AEOS|Dsuke1998AEOS]] ([[User talk:Dsuke1998AEOS|talk]]) 18:29, 14 June 2024 (UTC) |
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== Incomplete history section == |
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:: But it's in a ring just like pro wrestling with three count pinfalls and submissions and all the same rules as pro wrestling (at least old school Euro pro, what with the rounds) and of course Billy Robinson was a professional wrestler, through and through, Wigan shooter though he was. |
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:: I think there should be some acknowledgement in the article that it is at least <u>possible</u> to do pro-style wrestling as a legit sport. |
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:: Perhaps with a mention of this tournament and the rules <s>Robinson</s> Karl Gotch drew up for such competition as reprinted in <s>Johnathan Snowden's book "Shooters The Toughest Men in Pro Wrestling"</s> Jake Shannon"s book"Say Uncle! Catch-as-Catch-Can" ECW Press 2011, p201(source alert! ) [[User:Romomusicfan|Romomusicfan]] ([[User talk:Romomusicfan|talk]]) 12:51, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::: Apologies, wrong book cited. Corrected as per above with full cite details.[[User:Romomusicfan|Romomusicfan]] ([[User talk:Romomusicfan|talk]]) 19:20, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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The history tab ends with the death of WCW. It should have made some mention, even a small one, of ECW given that they were the third national promotion at this time. It should also continue on to discuss the modern era of professional wrestling, especially the emergence of TNA and AEW [[Special:Contributions/174.92.68.241|174.92.68.241]] ([[User talk:174.92.68.241|talk]]) 18:23, 27 December 2024 (UTC) |
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Catch wrestling is a real sport. Professional wrestling is not a sport, it's theater. In fact, I think "professional wrestling" should be called "theatrical wrestling" instead, but the fans love kayfabe too much. Your arguments are specious. I do not understand why so many people insist on defending pro wrestling as a sport. There's nothing wrong with it being theater. Our job as Wikipedia editors is to tell the truth. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 13:25, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:Professional wrestling is named as such because typically it's easier/more common to make a profession in the scripted version of wrestling than in amateur/catch/Olympic wrestling, where wrestlers perform less regularly, in less profitable environments, to a much smaller audience. It's not because of kayfabe, as the vast majority of fans are aware of its scripted nature. — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 19:29, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::::If it is feasible to have catch wrestling competition with all the rules and trappings of professional wrestling, then professional- style wrestling is at least a potential legitimate sport. I would propose an acknowledgement of this in the text along these lines: |
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''It is nonetheless feasible to have catch wrestling competition with all the rules and trappings of professional wrestling (roped elevated quadrilateral ring, submission and three count pinfall as equal goals, etc). A rules system for such competition was devised by professional wrestling champion and catch wrestling coach [[Karl Gotch]] for fellow catch wrestler Jake Shannon's "King of Catch" tournaments<ref>"Say Uncle! Catch-as-Catch-Can" Jake Shannon, ECW Press 2011, p201</ref> and similar rules were employed for a 2018 tournament in memory of another professional wrestling champion and catch wrestling coach [[Billy Robinson]].<ref>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdrjep51uNY</ref>'' {{Reflist}} |
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:::: I think this would help address the neutrality concerns flagged in the banner on the article and some of the concerns raised by users above.[[User:Romomusicfan|Romomusicfan]] ([[User talk:Romomusicfan|talk]]) 19:44, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::This is a different thing. If you want to add more material about modern competition at [[Catch wrestling]] that would be helpful, but this article is the wrong place. [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 19:50, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::: If it is still physically possible - and has been attempted by qualified persons - in this day and age to hold a pro wrestling Shoot then it has relevance to the article. [[User:Romomusicfan|Romomusicfan]] ([[User talk:Romomusicfan|talk]]) 19:56, 3 October 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::Shoots are so rare in pro wrestling as to be insignificant. Furthermore, in many states pro wrestling is legally defined as non-sport. And when I watch pro wrestling, I see them pull stunts that could only happen if the wrestlers cooperate. |
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::::::::Saying that it can be attempted as a shoot is like saying that a movie gunfight could in theory be done for real. Technically true, hot relevant. [[User:Kurzon|Kurzon]] ([[User talk:Kurzon|talk]]) 04:31, 4 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::::: So what is the difference - if any? - between Jacobs-Hammer (2018 - clip posted at the top of this thread) and old time pro wrestling public shooting matches such as, say, Gotch-Hackenshmidt I (1908), [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz-OdoEr0SQ Stecher-Caddock II (1920)] or even [[Wladek Zbyszko]]-[https://www.wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=bios&wrestler=7549 Fred Grubmier] (circa 1920s)? [[User:Romomusicfan|Romomusicfan]] ([[User talk:Romomusicfan|talk]]) 08:01, 4 October 2023 (UTC) |
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== Glossary of professional wrestling terms == |
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Almost all of the links to that article don't automatically go to the specific term. [[Special:Contributions/143.44.196.159|143.44.196.159]] ([[User talk:143.44.196.159|talk]]) 10:54, 14 October 2023 (UTC) |
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== Notable People == |
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Is it just me or some other people but i think rey mysterio should be in this catorgory anyone else agree? [[Special:Contributions/206.168.50.221|206.168.50.221]] ([[User talk:206.168.50.221|talk]]) 18:45, 16 October 2023 (UTC) |
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== scripted athletic exhibition == |
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scripted athletic exhibition is better and desribes it better so dont change it until you comment here with why it should be changed then change it then ill see it so i determine if i should revert it or not [[User:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life]] ([[User talk:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|talk]]) 22:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC) |
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::i see it but i personally dont agree if we could sit and talk on this subject you could tell me why theater describes it better then scripted athletic exhibition (i will not change it until we are done talking if i change it at all [[User:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life]] ([[User talk:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|talk]]) 23:20, 17 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:::and now im only gonna change it to get your attention in about 5 mins but im only gonna do it to get your attention no disrespect [[User:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life]] ([[User talk:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|talk]]) 23:23, 17 November 2023 (UTC) |
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::::Making the same change will not work. You need to get people to agree, here on the talk page. Repeating the same edits will just get you blocked. [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 23:25, 17 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::ok but can we still talk on why theater is better wording to describe pro wrestling then scripted athletic exhibition any one can reply [[User:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life]] ([[User talk:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|talk]]) 23:27, 17 November 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::It's supported by reliable sourcing, which is how Wikipedia works. We don't form wording on our own opinion, but on what other sources say. Also I'd advise you not to change it to get people's attention, [[WP:POINT|it's considered disruptive]] — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 23:37, 17 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::im sorry i just started and i really wanna know why theatre is better wording then scripted athletic exhibition im sorry ive only made 10 edits im sorry im depressed and i just wanna end it im sorry im stupid im sorry im an idiot im sorry. [[User:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life]] ([[User talk:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|talk]]) 23:43, 17 November 2023 (UTC) |
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::::::::It's fine. I'd just advise you to read [[WP:RS]] and [[WP:CONSENSUS]]. We've arrived at the current wording after long discussions around what the sources say, which is athletic theatre. — '''[[User:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">Czello</i>]]''' <sup>''([[User talk:Czello|<i style="color:#8000FF">music</i>]])''</sup> 23:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC) |
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:::::::::ok ill leave it [[User:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life]] ([[User talk:Tupac Shakur Thug Life 4Life|talk]]) 00:17, 18 November 2023 (UTC) |
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Latest revision as of 18:23, 27 December 2024
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"Atheltic theatre"
[edit]In an earlier discussion, I accepted that the adjective "athletic" could apply to professional wrestling as a type of theatre if you stretch the definition a little, but do we really need that word there? It's fairly obvious, and little superfluous. Kurzon (talk) 05:45, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think it's superfluous – it illustrates why pro wrestling is different to regular, traditional theatre. The athleticism of pro wrestling is a vital part of the genre; the adjective (which is well sourced, mind) illustrates that.
- Respectfully, I think it's time to drop this. There was a lot discussion over this one word previously, and you've edit warred to remove it more recently. It's an accurate adjective – why does this one word vex you this much? I would not be the first person to mention WP:OWN. — Czello (music) 11:41, 11 February 2024 (UTC)
- Theatre in the traditional sense is not athletic. Wrestling being a heavily athletic form of theatre makes it unique in the world of theatre, and thus warrants the elaboration. You "accepting" something is grand, and certainly not the aim of anyone's editing. You do not own the article. Perhaps spend some time editing other articles rather than terrorizing the editors who contribute to this one -- as if your approval is needed in order to let an edit remain. It absolutely is not. Cheers! 4theloveofallthings (talk) 20:18, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
Not a wrestling guy, but I think there might be an error in the article?
[edit]Under Countout: "In some promotions (and most major modern ones), Championships are depicted as being permitted to change hands via a countout, unless the on-screen authority declares it for at least one match, although in others, championships may change hands via countout."
To me, this reads like you're missing a "not" after "depicted as"? I don't know enough about wrestling to feel confident changing it, though. Vtipoman (talk) 18:01, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
- You're completely right. I've fixed this but rewritten most of the paragraph to improve the language. — Czello (music) 07:02, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
"Pkiro Wrokestling" listed at Redirects for discussion
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The redirect Pkiro Wrokestling has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 June 14 § Pkiro Wrokestling until a consensus is reached. Dsuke1998AEOS (talk) 18:29, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
Incomplete history section
[edit]The history tab ends with the death of WCW. It should have made some mention, even a small one, of ECW given that they were the third national promotion at this time. It should also continue on to discuss the modern era of professional wrestling, especially the emergence of TNA and AEW 174.92.68.241 (talk) 18:23, 27 December 2024 (UTC)