Talk:Aluminium: Difference between revisions
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== Semi-protected edit request on |
== Semi-protected edit request on 7 August 2024 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Aluminium|answered=yes}} |
{{edit semi-protected|Aluminium|answered=yes}} |
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The boiling point of Aluminum is stated to be 2743 K but it should be 2793 K. |
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change pronunciation of US/CA spelling from /əˈljuːmɪnəm/ ə-LEW-min-əm to /əˈluːmɪnəm/ ə-LOO-min-əm [[User:Ocelots33|Ocelots33]] ([[User talk:Ocelots33|talk]]) 01:56, 6 November 2022 (UTC) |
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Sources: |
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:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' please provide [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> {{re|Ocelots33}} What's your source for it being such a fronted ''l'' sound? —'''[[User:C.Fred|C.Fred]]''' ([[User_talk:C.Fred|talk]]) 02:03, 6 November 2022 (UTC) |
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[https://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/inchi?ID=C7429905&Mask=4#ref-1 NIST] |
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::https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/aluminum lists it without the /j/ sound, and the wikipedia audio sample says it without the /j/ sound. The OED lists the /j/ as optional in British English (which typically uses aluminium anyway) and does not list /j/ at all in American English https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/5898 [[User:Ocelots33|Ocelots33]] ([[User talk:Ocelots33|talk]]) 20:02, 6 November 2022 (UTC) |
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[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00503647 This paper] [[User:Seeenman|Seeenman]] ([[User talk:Seeenman|talk]]) 05:02, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:::{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> Part of the problem is my native dialect is a [[yod-dropping]] dialect, so in trying to distinguish ''lj'' and ''l'', I wasn't hearing the yod sound in ''lute'' and was missing the difference. Looks like it's been done at the infobox. —'''[[User:C.Fred|C.Fred]]''' ([[User_talk:C.Fred|talk]]) 21:20, 6 November 2022 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Seeenman}} {{not done}}. That 2743 K value comes from this<ref>{{cite journal |doi= 10.1021/je1011086 |title=Corrected Values for Boiling Points and Enthalpies of Vaporization of Elements in Handbooks |url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231538496 |last1=Zhang |first1=Yiming |last2=Evans |first2=Julian R. G. |last3=Yang |first3=Shoufeng |journal=J. Chem. Eng. Data |year=2011 |volume=56 |issue=2 |pages=328–337}}</ref>, which is newer (2011) than the sources you given (1987–1988). --[[User:Nucleus hydro elemon|Nucleus hydro elemon]] ([[User talk:Nucleus hydro elemon|talk]]) 15:14, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
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::Ah thanks. Perhaps that could be added as a reference on the page? Something like |
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::2743 K (2470 °C, 4478 °F)<ref>{{cite journal |doi= 10.1021/je1011086 |title=Corrected Values for Boiling Points and Enthalpies of Vaporization of Elements in Handbooks |url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231538496 |last1=Zhang |first1=Yiming |last2=Evans |first2=Julian R. G. |last3=Yang |first3=Shoufeng |journal=J. Chem. Eng. Data |year=2011 |volume=56 |issue=2 |pages=328–337}}</ref> [[User:Seeenman|Seeenman]] ([[User talk:Seeenman|talk]]) 16:41, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:::{{done}} [[User:Nucleus hydro elemon|Nucleus hydro elemon]] ([[User talk:Nucleus hydro elemon|talk]]) 22:33, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
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::::Thanks! [[Special:Contributions/169.233.202.227|169.233.202.227]] ([[User talk:169.233.202.227|talk]]) 22:55, 8 August 2024 (UTC) |
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{{reflist-talk}} |
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== British fanfic spelling == |
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== reference removed, mouse≠person == |
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Why does the page list the British fanfic spelling as the primary spelling? The official recognized spelling is aluminum and should be recognized as such. [[Special:Contributions/73.237.36.27|73.237.36.27]] ([[User talk:73.237.36.27|talk]]) 17:34, 12 December 2022 (UTC) |
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: See FAQ [[Talk:Aluminium/Spelling |here]] --[[User:McSly|McSly]] ([[User talk:McSly|talk]]) 17:56, 12 December 2022 (UTC) |
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::Umm, because the internationally recognised spelling is 'aluminium' and only Canada and the US spell it 'aluminum'. [[User:TrevorLenab|TrevorLenab]] ([[User talk:TrevorLenab|talk]]) 13:50, 11 April 2023 (UTC) |
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== Requested move 14 April 2023 == |
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ref name="Ullmann" does not support "[[Aluminium sulfate]] has an [[Median lethal dose|LD<sub>50</sub>]] of 6207 mg/kg (oral, mouse), which corresponds to 435 grams (about one pound) for a 70 kg (150 lb) person." I've also changed person to mouse because toxicity is different in different species. |
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<references /> [[User:Darsie42|Darsie42]] ([[User talk:Darsie42|talk]]) 10:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC) |
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:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.'' |
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:Unfortunately this leaves us trying to imagine a 70kg mouse. Perhaps it would be better to remove the relative clause entirely. [[Special:Contributions/80.6.246.2|80.6.246.2]] ([[User talk:80.6.246.2|talk]]) 16:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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The result of the move request was: '''Withdrawn'''. Seems like everyone disagrees with this move, and the title was already made on a compromise. [[WP:SNOW|Snow close]]. <small>([[Wikipedia:Non-admin closure|non-admin closure]])</small> [[User:Wikiexplorationandhelping|Wikiexplorationandhelping]] ([[User talk:Wikiexplorationandhelping|talk]]) 18:24, 15 April 2023 (UTC) |
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::I agree that extrapolating cross-species without a direct cite is a problem ([[WP:OR]]). Just state the LD50 as the ref supports it. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 18:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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[[:Aluminium]] → {{no redirect|Aluminum}} – "Aluminum" is the more common name, as shown with [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=Aluminum%2C+Aluminium&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=true this ngram]. Thoughts? [[User:Wikiexplorationandhelping|Wikiexplorationandhelping]] ([[User talk:Wikiexplorationandhelping|talk]]) 19:22, 14 April 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Comment''' – While "aluminum" is definitely more common, the reason why it's located at "aluminium" is because of the IUPAC. Like, there's three elements with two region-centric names/spellings: "Alumin(i)um", "Sul[f/ph]ur", and "C(a)esium". The IUPAC established the standard that the British spelling should be used for "Alumin'''ium'''" (and "'''Caes'''ium") while the American spelling should be used for "Sul'''fur'''". Also, see [[MOS:SPELLING]]. <small>[[User:Paintspot|Paintspot Infez]] ([[User talk:Paintspot|talk]])</small> 21:13, 14 April 2023 (UTC) |
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In the section titled "Earth" under the natural occurrence tab it's stated that "Aluminium also occurs in seawater at a concentration of 2 μg/kg." when I went to the referenced material [33] I wasn't able to find that value. If this could be double checked and adjusted if need be, that would be great. I also got a separate average concentration of sea water as 0.42 µg/L with a standard deviation of 0.70 µg/L (or 0.41 µg/kg with a standard deviation of 0.68 µg/kg) from a more recent study in 2020.(https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/marine-science/articles/10.3389/fmars.2020.00468/full#T2) These values can be found on table two and are measured in nanomoles, but should convert over. [[User:Xcl-aspiringscientist|Xcl-aspiringscientist]] ([[User talk:Xcl-aspiringscientist|talk]]) 03:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Don't move''' This is a english-american spelling difference. Whichever whichever dialect has more prominence is always going to win the "more common" criterion. If that was sufficient argument for a move on its own the entire wiki would use American spelling sooner or later. I don't believe that's what policy prescribes. --[[User:Licks-rocks|Licks-rocks]] ([[User talk:Licks-rocks#top|talk]]) 21:19, 14 April 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' per [[MOS:ENGVAR]] / [[MOS:RETAIN]] / [[User:Licks-rocks|Licks-rocks]] / [[Talk:Aluminium/Spelling]]. — [[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 22:14, 14 April 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Oppose''' A compromise has been already hashed out at IUPAC and elsewhere long before Wikipedia existed. Attempting to defy it to restart the debate from scratch is not worth anyone's time. — ''Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung'', ''[[User:Mellohi!|mello]]'''''[[User talk:Mellohi!|hi!]]''' ([[Special:Contributions/Mellohi!|投稿]]) 03:21, 15 April 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Strong oppose''' per others. It's not an American element. See [[WP:ALUM]] for the clearly-specified WP standard based on [[IUPAC]] authority. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 03:37, 15 April 2023 (UTC) |
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* '''Oppose''' per [[WP:ALUM]] (=MOS): IUPAC-defined spelling in chemical usage. -[[User:DePiep|DePiep]] ([[User talk:DePiep|talk]]) 05:25, 15 April 2023 (UTC) |
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* '''Oppose''' per [[WP:ALUM]]. <b>[[User talk:Praseodymium-141|<span style="color:#028A0F"><sup>141</sup></span>]][[User:Praseodymium-141|<span style="color:#A32CC4">Pr</span>]] {[[Special:Contributions/Praseodymium-141|contribs]]}</b> 07:08, 15 April 2023 (UTC) |
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* '''Oppose''' per [[WP:ALUM]] per all the previous history. [[User:In ictu oculi|In ictu oculi]] ([[User talk:In ictu oculi|talk]]) 08:08, 15 April 2023 (UTC) |
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* '''Oppose''' - I think both me and future contributors to this RM will agree with the above points given here, especially I also agree with the [[WP:ALUM]] text given. [[User:Iggy the Swan|Iggy]] ([[User talk:Iggy the Swan#top|Swan]]) ([[Special:Contribs/Iggy the Swan|Contribs]]) 12:19, 15 April 2023 (UTC) |
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<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] --> |
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{{Edit semi-protected|Aluminium|answered=yes}} |
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The "US/CA" is incorrect. When I was in school, our Periodic table of elements which I have in my room right now (Yes, I still hoard my highschool binder after grad 2018) has Aluminium spelt in the non-American (imperial/non-metric) spelling. People of the United States say/spell/measure things oddly (basically as a colonial/patriotic middle finger to a dead king), as a born & raised metric-using 182cm tall, 53kg Canadian I must submit our Country's refusal of Canada being falsely accused of using such an atrocious spelling such as "Aluminum" even though we hang out with enough Americans for most of us Canadian to utilise the American pronunciation without correcting eachother. You can assume the person who initially put CA in there was an American whiteknighting our grammar, eh? [[User:XGN CISCO|XGN CISCO]] ([[User talk:XGN CISCO|talk]]) 21:15, 28 April 2023 (UTC) |
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:I agree that it isn't <u>universally</u> spelled aluminum in Canada, but I would suggest that it is in common usage. Canada often is split between British and American English, and I don't believe this is any different. The article doesn't imply (at least to me personally) that the ONLY spelling in Canada is aluminum, just that it is in common usage there. If there's somewhere that does suggest it's universal, I'd be happy to change that, though. [[User:Tollens|Tollens]] ([[User talk:Tollens|talk]]) 22:59, 28 April 2023 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2023 == |
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'''Background/Evidence''' Hi! In the Etymology section, under Spelling, source #123 is cited for the line "''In 1925, the American Chemical Society adopted this spelling''"[In reference to Aluminum vs Aluminium]. Source #123, unfortunately, is not primary, nor does it cite a primary source. Source #129 makes a similar claim about the ACS 1925 thing, but is also A) Secondary, and B) Sourceless. |
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After doing my own digging, I have found the *actual* earliest use of 'Aluminum' by the ACS: [https://pubs.acs.org/toc/jacsat/1/7 in it's 7th issue, published in June 1879]. After this, the ACS frequently accepts both -ium and -um, with, as far as I could find, no official publication on which it deems the 'official' spelling. In fact, the 1925 date seems like it might be made up anyway. The ''final'' use of Aluminium that I could find in the ACS journal database was in [https://pubs.acs.org/toc/jacsat/39/7 July of 1917]. |
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So, even if some sort of decree was made in 1925 making '''-um''' the official alumin-suffix of the ACS, it was symbolic at the point anyway. |
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'''Requested Edit:''' Change this portion: |
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> By 1890, both spellings had been common in the United States, the -ium spelling being slightly more common; by 1895, the situation had reversed; by 1900, aluminum had become twice as common as aluminium; in the next decade, the -um spelling dominated American usage. In 1925, the American Chemical Society adopted this spelling.[123] |
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:{{Done}}, cheers for doing the converting [[User:Cmrc23|<span style="text-shadow: -1px -1px 2px #fee6b8, 1px -1px 2px #fedd63, -1px 1px 2px #d56300, 1px 1px 2px #623804; color: #4a2a02;">'''Cmrc23''' ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ</span>]] 09:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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To |
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== [[Reynolds Wrap]] == |
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> By 1890, both spellings had been common in the United States, the -ium spelling being slightly more common; by 1895, the situation had reversed; by 1900, aluminum had become twice as common as aluminium. The final use of aluminium by the American Chemical Society was in 1917 <ref>{{cite journal |title=THE ACTION OF ANHYDROUS ALUMINIUM CHLORIDE UPON UNSATURATED ORGANIC COMPOUNDS. II. |journal=Journal of the American Chemical Society |date=1 July 1917 |volume=39 |issue=7 |url=https://pubs.acs.org/toc/jacsat/39/7 |access-date=1 May 2023}}</ref> [[User:Fordfraipont|Fordfraipont]] ([[User talk:Fordfraipont|talk]]) 18:58, 1 May 2023 (UTC) |
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Is it sold in England? If so, which way do they label it? ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 03:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> Contrary to your expectation, we prefer secondary sources and avoid [[WP:OR|original interpretation]] of primary sources on Wikipedia, even quite trivial interpretation! If you can find a secondary or tertiary source that supports the 1917 date, please link it and reopen this request. [[User:SmallJarsWithGreenLabels|small jars]] <small><code>[[User talk:SmallJarsWithGreenLabels|<b style="color:#270">t</b>]][[special:contributions/SmallJarsWithGreenLabels|<b style="color:#270">c</b>]]</code></small> 16:33, 4 May 2023 (UTC) |
Revision as of 15:08, 28 December 2024
For discussion regarding spelling please use Talk:Aluminium/Spelling. |
This article is written in American English with IUPAC spelling (color, defense, traveled; aluminium, sulfur and caesium) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide and chemistry naming conventions, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Aluminium has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||
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Current status: Good article |
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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Aluminium was copied or moved into History of aluminium with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
There is a request, submitted by Catfurball, for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. The rationale behind the request is: "Important". |
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Please, start new discussions about spelling at /Spelling. |
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Semi-protected edit request on 7 August 2024
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The boiling point of Aluminum is stated to be 2743 K but it should be 2793 K. Sources: NIST This paper Seeenman (talk) 05:02, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Seeenman: Not done. That 2743 K value comes from this[1], which is newer (2011) than the sources you given (1987–1988). --Nucleus hydro elemon (talk) 15:14, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Ah thanks. Perhaps that could be added as a reference on the page? Something like
- 2743 K (2470 °C, 4478 °F)[2] Seeenman (talk) 16:41, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ Zhang, Yiming; Evans, Julian R. G.; Yang, Shoufeng (2011). "Corrected Values for Boiling Points and Enthalpies of Vaporization of Elements in Handbooks". J. Chem. Eng. Data. 56 (2): 328–337. doi:10.1021/je1011086.
- ^ Zhang, Yiming; Evans, Julian R. G.; Yang, Shoufeng (2011). "Corrected Values for Boiling Points and Enthalpies of Vaporization of Elements in Handbooks". J. Chem. Eng. Data. 56 (2): 328–337. doi:10.1021/je1011086.
reference removed, mouse≠person
ref name="Ullmann" does not support "Aluminium sulfate has an LD50 of 6207 mg/kg (oral, mouse), which corresponds to 435 grams (about one pound) for a 70 kg (150 lb) person." I've also changed person to mouse because toxicity is different in different species.
Darsie42 (talk) 10:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Unfortunately this leaves us trying to imagine a 70kg mouse. Perhaps it would be better to remove the relative clause entirely. 80.6.246.2 (talk) 16:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I agree that extrapolating cross-species without a direct cite is a problem (WP:OR). Just state the LD50 as the ref supports it. DMacks (talk) 18:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2024
This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the section titled "Earth" under the natural occurrence tab it's stated that "Aluminium also occurs in seawater at a concentration of 2 μg/kg." when I went to the referenced material [33] I wasn't able to find that value. If this could be double checked and adjusted if need be, that would be great. I also got a separate average concentration of sea water as 0.42 µg/L with a standard deviation of 0.70 µg/L (or 0.41 µg/kg with a standard deviation of 0.68 µg/kg) from a more recent study in 2020.(https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/marine-science/articles/10.3389/fmars.2020.00468/full#T2) These values can be found on table two and are measured in nanomoles, but should convert over. Xcl-aspiringscientist (talk) 03:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Done, cheers for doing the converting Cmrc23 ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ 09:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Is it sold in England? If so, which way do they label it? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
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