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== Neutrality check: ==
== Cosmographia ==

I have nominated this article to be checked for neutrality. The reason was given in the summary, but the tag was soon removed again, cont rary to policy, by another editor, on the pretext that I needed to give a reason on the talk page. So here is the same explanation again, from my edit summary:
It seems some recent editors have destroyed the external link section linking to [[Cosmographia (Sebastian Münster)]].

So, I have uploaded the images individually to Commons in an effort to preserve the linkage:

<gallery>

File:Prete Gianni.jpg

⚫
File:Prester John Emblem.jpg


</gallery>
This article clearly has a point-of-view, but it's not a very neutral one, it represents only one opinion and scorns others


[[User:Aavindraa|<em style="text-shadow:1px 1px 0 lightBlue,1px -1px 0 lightBlue,-1px 1px 0 lightBlue,-1px -1px 1px lightBlue">Avindra</em>]]<span style="margin-left:3px;background-color:lightGray;padding:5px;border-radius:7px;font-size:10px;">[[User talk:Aavindraa|talk]]</span> 02:26, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
According to my understanding, it is not considered helpful to remove neutrality concern tags, when an editor raises neutrality concerns. If an editor raises neutrality concerns, it means there is a neutrality concern that needs to be worked out. If another editor then summarily removes the tag, it looks like that editor is assuming he is above all others, "owns" the article, and alone knows what is best. That is exactly why the policy says not to remove those tags UNTIL the neutrality issue is addressed to everyone's satisfaction. [[User:Til Eulenspiegel|Til Eulenspiegel]] ([[User talk:Til Eulenspiegel|talk]]) 17:58, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
:{{ping|Aavindraa}} I included the second one in the article. --[[User:Error|Error]] ([[User talk:Error|talk]]) 10:49, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


== Ethiopian focus after looking at the Americas? ==
:Calm down. I removed the tag because your edit summary was extremely vague as to the reasons why you added it, and you did not explain yourself on the talk page. Placing NPOV tags without appropriate explanation is not helpful to improving an article, and I know of no policy (or guideline) indicating that inappropriately placed tags must be left in place. What point of view does this article have? What is the "one opinion" represented here? What others does it "scorn"? Virtually every statement here is cited to reliable sources, and most of it is just an account of the various incarnations of the legend through the years. You'll have to elaborate.--[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 18:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


Under Ethiopia, the article says, "'''After looking for Prester John in the Americas'''" while citing a German source that I can't begin to fathom right now. Then, the paragraph concludes with, "'''Evidence has suggested that locating Prester John's kingdom in Ethiopia entered the collective consciousness around 1250.'''" Is the article suggesting that people were considering Prester John's existence in America prior to the European awareness of America? Or am I reading this wrong? [[User:Danindenver|danindenver]] ([[User talk:Danindenver|talk]]) 18:29, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
::I admit that I was also puzzled by the tag. Would you please explain as specifically as possible your concerns about the neutrality of the article. [[User:Aramgar|Aramgar]] ([[User talk:Aramgar|talk]]) 19:17, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


:Looks like that was added by {{user|Nsae Comp}} last year in [https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Prester_John&diff=964966031&oldid=964665799 this edit]. I can only see a snippet view on Google, but it seems to say that explorers of the Americas in the 16th century may have been looking for Prester John there. Whether that's true or not, it's certainly a bizarre statement to add to the middle of a paragraph about the 13th century. I think we can probably just remove it, unless Nsae Comp can give us more specific information (a page number in the book, for example). [[User:Adam Bishop|Adam Bishop]] ([[User talk:Adam Bishop|talk]]) 19:01, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
:::I'm still newish here, but as near as I can tell, there's no way to do a POV check without [[User:Til Eulenspiegel|Til Eulenspiegel]] describing the POV problem? [[User:Cretog8|Cretog8]] ([[User talk:Cretog8|talk]]) 18:16, 6 June 2008 (UTC)


::Thank you for pinging me instead of just taking it out. Well I must admit that I am a bit at a loss my self about my edit here, i cant remember it. I also cant answer your question because I do not have the book anymore, since I had it from the university library. What I do remember is that it was talking about how early portuguese explorers looked for Prester John. But since that is being discussed further down I dont know which detail I was refering to. I never the less have notes which state page seven of the book as the part that I might have wanted to reference here, about Columbus also looking for Prester John, but I cant double check that now.
::::There's no way to address his concerns if he doesn't tell us what they are. Placing a template like that is useless without discussion.--[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 19:33, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
::So while I would like to add the reference more explicitly about Columbus, I cant though be sure if that is what Baum is talking about, might as well be just the portuguese. So I have to excuse my self for a very sloppy edit. Ill take it out and might add a better reference if I find the source about Columbus looking for John. Thanks again and happy editing! [[User:Nsae Comp|Nsae Comp]] ([[User talk:Nsae Comp|talk]]) 23:25, 4 December 2021 (UTC)


:::Thanks for a great response! I'm still a newbie in this palaver, and I try to tread politely if I can.
⚫
{{Talk:Prester John/GA1}}
Am I supposed to delete this section, now? <!-- Template:Unsigned --><span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Danindenver|Danindenver]] ([[User talk:Danindenver#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Danindenver|contribs]]) 02:48, 5 December 2021 (UTC)</span> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


== Pakistan ==


can we introduce a theory where Pakistan is the best candidate to be known as "Prester John"?
==Assyrian / Nestorian==
Hi, I tagged one of the sentences as needing a citation. This is because I've been doing quite a bit of cleanup on some other "Christianity in Asia" articles, and have found several places where someone seems to have done a global search & replace, swapping "Nestorian" for "Assyrian Church of the East". In one place they even changed a quote from a source, to say "Assyrian" instead of "Nestorian", even though the "Assyrian" term doesn't appear anywhere in the book! So I'm trying to do a big sweep and get things set right. I see that other sentences in that paragraph are referenced to a book by Silverberg. I don't have that source handy, but when I checked it via Google Books, I was told that the term "Assyrian Church of the East" does not appear in the book anywhere, which is why I've tagged the sentence. Can anyone who does have the source, verify the usage of the name? Or if it's true that it's not in the book, and we can't find some other reliable source, let's please pull that sentence. Thanks, --[[User:Elonka|El]][[User talk:Elonka|on]][[Special:Contributions/Elonka|ka]] 02:30, 26 January 2010 (UTC)


12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[[User:Truffle457|Truffle457]] ([[User talk:Truffle457|talk]]) 12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)~~\\\\\\\\\\\\\[[User:Truffle457|Truffle457]] ([[User talk:Truffle457|talk]]) 12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)
:Silverberg does not use the name [[Assyrian Church of the East]] (he just uses "Nestorian"), but that's clearly what he's talking about: the Christian church called the "Nestorians" in the medieval West. It matters in this case since for whatever reason, Wikipedia has two articles, one on the early heresy of Nestorius, which is titled [[Nestorianism]], and one on the church known as "Nestorian" to medieval Europeans, here titled [[Assyrian Church of the East]]. Just linking to [[Nestorianism]] will not take the reader to appropriate article. The other common name for the church, [[Church of the East]], is a dab page directing the reader to "[[Assyrian Church of the East]]" and several other churches. Can you suggest a better way of addressing this problem?--[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 19:27, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
:: Hi, happy to work with you to try and come up with a consensus version. :) To move forward, could you explain more about why do you feel that the article on [[Nestorianism]] wouldn't work? I've recently given it an overhaul, so it might address things better now. My own opinion for the easiest fix as far as the [[Prester John]] article might be to simply quote what Silverberg says, and leave it at that. --[[User:Elonka|El]][[User talk:Elonka|on]][[Special:Contributions/Elonka|ka]] 20:11, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
:::Oh, I hadn't seen your much-needed work at [[Nestorianism]]. The article formerly focused on Nestorianism as a doctrine (the Nestorian heresy), while discussion of the actual "Nestorian church" and its activities in the Middle Ages was located at the article "Assyrian Church of the East". My only desire in terms of this article is for readers being told about a medieval church to be linked to the article discussing that church, and not to an article about a doctrine with a fairly opaque connection to the later church. If the [[Nestorianism]] article is made into such an article, then I'm fine with just linking to [[Nestorianism]] and being done with it. The problems among our articles on Nestorianism and Church of the East is something to be dealt with elsewhere; hopefully it will be worked out effectively.--[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 21:06, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
::::I've made an amendment, but kept a link to the [[Assyrian Church of the East|Church of the East]], since that article contains a lot of relevant information. What do you think?--[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 21:12, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
::::: Hmm, I'm reluctant to link anything about Prester John to the Assyrian Church of the East unless we have an actual reliable source which makes this connection. I've gone ahead and edited the paragraph a bit to something I like better. Feel free to keep tweaking, and maybe we can circle in on consensus that way. :) --[[User:Elonka|El]][[User talk:Elonka|on]][[Special:Contributions/Elonka|ka]] 21:26, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
::::: (followup) In looking at the [[Assyrian Church of the East]] article, I'm seeing several statements which look like straight copy/pastes of incorrect sections from other articles as well. It's looking like sometime over the past couple years, someone went through several articles on Wikipedia and made a concerted copy/paste effort to replace "Nestorian" with "Assyrian Church of the East" in several locations. Or in other words, in trying to find out what the actual historic reality is, please don't rely on Wikipedia articles... We're going to need to actually produce reliable secondary sources to get things straightened out. --[[User:Elonka|El]][[User talk:Elonka|on]][[Special:Contributions/Elonka|ka]] 21:41, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
::::::Yes, quite so... It does seem to be a pretty substantial problem across the board. I don't know how much help I could be in terms of a wider solution, but it seems to me that the article on "Nestorianism" should contain information on the Nestorian Christianity; if we need a separate article on the Nestorian doctrine, it should go elsewhere, perhaps [[Nestorianism (doctrine)]], [[Nestorian heresy]], or something like that. --[[User:Cuchullain|Cúchullain]] [[User talk:Cuchullain|<sup>t</sup>]]/[[Special:Contributions/Cuchullain|<small>c</small>]] 21:52, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
:::::::This is also made more complicated because there is also a lengthy, really annoying edit war all over Wikipedia about whether to use "Syriac", "Assyrian", "Chaldean", or "Nestorian" to refer to (what I would call) Syriac Christians. Good luck with that :) [[User:Adam Bishop|Adam Bishop]] ([[User talk:Adam Bishop|talk]]) 23:57, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
:::::::: Hi Adam! And yes, I've been seeing remnants of it as I've been trying to cleanup the Nestorian-related articles... What are your own favorite sources on the issue? --[[User:Elonka|El]][[User talk:Elonka|on]][[Special:Contributions/Elonka|ka]] 04:18, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::I don't know, I don't really have any, so I've tried to stay out of this dispute (aside from stopping edit wars occasionally). Personally, I've only ever met people who identified as "Assyrian", and for my own work, they are called Syrians or Jacobites, but that is a narrow time and place and not really the same thing. I know I've read about the Mongols being Nestorians, so I assume that "Assyrian" means a group that stayed in the Near East, and Nestorians were a group that moved further east. [[User:Adam Bishop|Adam Bishop]] ([[User talk:Adam Bishop|talk]]) 09:17, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 13:17, 29 December 2024

Good articlePrester John has been listed as one of the Philosophy and religion good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
November 12, 2005Peer reviewReviewed
November 14, 2006Good article nomineeListed
June 16, 2009Good article reassessmentKept
April 6, 2015Featured article candidateNot promoted
Current status: Good article

Cosmographia

[edit]

It seems some recent editors have destroyed the external link section linking to Cosmographia (Sebastian Münster).

So, I have uploaded the images individually to Commons in an effort to preserve the linkage:

Avindratalk 02:26, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Aavindraa: I included the second one in the article. --Error (talk) 10:49, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ethiopian focus after looking at the Americas?

[edit]

Under Ethiopia, the article says, "After looking for Prester John in the Americas" while citing a German source that I can't begin to fathom right now. Then, the paragraph concludes with, "Evidence has suggested that locating Prester John's kingdom in Ethiopia entered the collective consciousness around 1250." Is the article suggesting that people were considering Prester John's existence in America prior to the European awareness of America? Or am I reading this wrong? danindenver (talk) 18:29, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like that was added by Nsae Comp (talk · contribs) last year in this edit. I can only see a snippet view on Google, but it seems to say that explorers of the Americas in the 16th century may have been looking for Prester John there. Whether that's true or not, it's certainly a bizarre statement to add to the middle of a paragraph about the 13th century. I think we can probably just remove it, unless Nsae Comp can give us more specific information (a page number in the book, for example). Adam Bishop (talk) 19:01, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for pinging me instead of just taking it out. Well I must admit that I am a bit at a loss my self about my edit here, i cant remember it. I also cant answer your question because I do not have the book anymore, since I had it from the university library. What I do remember is that it was talking about how early portuguese explorers looked for Prester John. But since that is being discussed further down I dont know which detail I was refering to. I never the less have notes which state page seven of the book as the part that I might have wanted to reference here, about Columbus also looking for Prester John, but I cant double check that now.
So while I would like to add the reference more explicitly about Columbus, I cant though be sure if that is what Baum is talking about, might as well be just the portuguese. So I have to excuse my self for a very sloppy edit. Ill take it out and might add a better reference if I find the source about Columbus looking for John. Thanks again and happy editing! Nsae Comp (talk) 23:25, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for a great response! I'm still a newbie in this palaver, and I try to tread politely if I can.

Am I supposed to delete this section, now? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danindenver (talk • contribs) 02:48, 5 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pakistan

[edit]

can we introduce a theory where Pakistan is the best candidate to be known as "Prester John"?

12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)Truffle457 (talk) 12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)~~\\\\\\\\\\\\\Truffle457 (talk) 12:13, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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