Talk:Kim Jong Un

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2024

Kim Jong Un was born in 1984. His uncle and aunt, who defected from North Korea in 1998 have confirmed the birth year. That's why the US listes his birth year as 1984. This should be added to the page, even as another reason for the US's year of birth.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/the-secret-life-of-kim-jong-uns-aunt-who-has-lived-in-the-us-since-1998/2016/05/26/522e4ec8-12d7-11e6-a9b5-bf703a5a7191_story.html

https://archive.ph/bWzjJ 2606:8700:9:5:5940:8F0D:3675:2B5D (talk) 19:56, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: The US stopped using the 1984 date because the ROK gave more reliable intelligence for 1983. Just so we're clear, the quote of the uncle and aunt "confirming" the birth year is:

"They can reveal, for example, that Kim Jong Un was born in 1984 — not 1982 or 1983, as has been widely thought. The reason they're certain? It was the same year that their first son was born. 'He and my son were playmates from birth. I changed both of their diapers,' Ko said with a laugh."

Incredibly less reliable than the other sources given. Yue🌙 22:19, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't think it's "incredibly less reliable". They claim to know the kid.--Jack Upland (talk) 02:34, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

dictator?

Why isn't he labeled as a dictator, despite multiple sources refering to him as such and him conforming to basically every single elements of a dicator? Cinemaandpolitics (talk) 16:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

See [1] and other previous discussions.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

I guess this will go to a RfC when I'll have the time. Or it would be pretty easy to say that there never was a "true" dictator with "absolute" powers. Cinemaandpolitics (talk) 11:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Its ridiculous to call him as a dictator. First because its not his official post, and second because its BIASED concept. An encyclopedia of respect should not embrace BIASED opinions. ROK president is accused to stage a coup but he isnt labelled as dictator. 2804:7F1:E241:F635:88FF:C55F:78DA:B347 (talk) 03:55, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

He has been impeached, that is one of the hallmarks of not being one, there is outside oversight of your action. Slatersteven (talk) 11:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

NK News, used in the original argument, was partially blocked in South Korea because some reports originated from North Korea. Given the overwhelming number of sources calling him a dictator and the use of the term on similar leaders pages that also have sources disputing their control on power, such as Kim Il Sung who is on the front page of the wiki article dictator, I believe it should be included. ZebulonMorn (talk)

NK News is not North Korean!--Jack Upland (talk) 00:01, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

@ZebulonMorn: It's best practice to sign your comments with your username. Most users have links to their user page and their user talk page. It's possible to customize your signature, but please at least include your username. —Eyer (he/him) If you reply, add {{reply to|Eyer}} to your message. 00:04, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

The idea that South Korea censored one of the sources is not compelling to me in terms of the content question.

I recommend where we can to avoid labels like this and speak in more concrete terms. We already address concentration of power more concretely elsewhere in the introduction, so to add a less specific additional label is not something I favor. JArthur1984 (talk) 00:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

On his father's and granfather's intro, they both have the word "dictatorship". If we change the line "the same cult of personality as his father and grandfather." to "the same personalist dictatorship as his father and grandfather." then I would agree. ZebulonMorn (talk) 00:55, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Both a label that precisely pin points his rule of power and concrete descriptions can and should be used. Cinemaandpolitics (talk) 11:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

It's considered unreliable by the Government of South Korea, so I don't think it's reliable enough to overshadow the deluge of reports referencing Kim as a dictator. ZebulonMorn (talk) ZebulonMorn (talk) 00:50, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Specialist sources like NK News that have actually considered the topic are more reliable than sources that just slap on labels.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:43, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

You have one questionably reliable source to support your argument. An argument that's disputed by nearly every appropriate source. We definitely need far more reliable evidence fist to remove "dictator" ZebulonMorn (talk) 01:49, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

You could at least make it less repetitive: "Kim Jong Un is a North Korean politician and dictator who has been supreme leader of North Korea since December 2011".--Jack Upland (talk) 01:51, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

That's fair enough ZebulonMorn (talk) 07:13, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

There isn't any consensus here to remove Supreme leader. Supreme Leader is a position in the North Korean and dictator is the role played by him. See Supreme Leader of Iran, Supreme Leader of Afghanistan and Ali Khamenei. Furthermore, he is the third Supreme Leader of NK. Theofunny (talk) 11:58, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

Thank you to all editors that made the addition stick. I was very surprised to see how many dictators were not even remotelly refered as such on the opening paragraphs in Wikipedia.

Generally, I have no issue in either having dictator as a label or having a formulation like "ruling xxxstate in a dictatorship since xxx". I do not believe that "dictator" has the same type of vague moral tone that MOS:CRIMINAL strives to avoid. But I could be in the wrong and "politician" as a general term plus a specificity of the dictatorship rule can also work, as long as it is in the opening paragraph. Cinemaandpolitics (talk) 11:58, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The most egregious case of Vladimir Putin not being referred to as such still exists. Theofunny (talk) 12:30, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

That would need more work, possibly a different phrasing, since sources will not be so unanimous. Cinemaandpolitics (talk) 12:45, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

References

Image of Kim

you must update the image of Kim Jong Un, from 2019 into 2024 Gorabels147 (talk) 08:28, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

There is a comment next to the image that you've ignored twice now asking you to get consensus before changing it. Please do not alter the image without consensus. — Czello ^(music) 08:38, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

• (Personal attack removed)