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===[[User:Rbaish]]===<!-- keep THREE equal signs here, not two nor one. Remove this once completed. -->
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the case of suspected sockpuppetry. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> No further edits should be made to this page. All edits should go to the [[{{NAMESPACE}} talk:{{{nosubst|Suspected sock puppets/Rbaish}}}|talk page of this case]]. If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to open a new case of sockpuppetry of the same user, [[Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry/Notes_for_the_accuser|read this]] for detailed instructions.''
===[[User:Rbaish]]===
;Suspected sockpuppeteer
;Suspected sockpuppeteer
{{user5|Rbaish}}<br>
{{user5|Rbaish}}<br>
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* This user came out of nowhere and replaced text to [[Black supremacy]] that [[User:Rbaish]] had replaced previously. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Black_supremacy&curid=65426&diff=103774314&oldid=103772515
* This user came out of nowhere and replaced text to [[Black supremacy]] that [[User:Rbaish]] had replaced previously. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Black_supremacy&curid=65426&diff=103774314&oldid=103772515


* User <strike>vandalised</strike> POV editing the page [[Cool (aesthetic)]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Cool_%28aesthetic%29&curid=2293744&diff=0&oldid=110935603]...twice [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Cool_%28aesthetic%29&curid=2293744&diff=111268633&oldid=111253065] three times...[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Cool_%28aesthetic%29&diff=111372315&oldid=111368465]
* User <strike>vandalised</strike> POV editing the page [[Cool (aesthetic)]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Cool_%28aesthetic%29&curid=2293744&diff=0&oldid=110935603]...twice [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Cool_%28aesthetic%29&curid=2293744&diff=111268633&oldid=111253065] three times...[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Cool_%28aesthetic%29&diff=111372315&oldid=111368465]...[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Cool_%28aesthetic%29&curid=2293744&diff=112714289&oldid=112714106] ... four times.


* Editing the IFD tag [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Image:Two_Curve_Bell.jpg&curid=9060658&diff=0&oldid=110937682] (I have no idea how an IP user would know about this)
* Editing the IFD tag [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Image:Two_Curve_Bell.jpg&curid=9060658&diff=0&oldid=110937682] (I have no idea how an IP user would know about this)


* Edited my userpage [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User%3AFuturebird&diff=110958972&oldid=110840498] ''Looks to me like Rbaish was just bein' friendly. You are a graffiti fan so he put a little there. But you deleted it. NIMBY?''
* Edited my userpage [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User%3AFuturebird&diff=110958972&oldid=110840498] ''Looks to me like Rbaish was just bein' friendly. You are a graffiti fan so he put a little there. But you deleted it. NIMBY?'' <--unsigned comment from 71.112.7.212


* Tried to imform him of this but he deleted it from his talk page [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ARbaish&diff=110958104&oldid=110947491]... twice [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rbaish&curid=7627356&diff=111376394&oldid=111233376]
* Tried to imform him of this but he deleted it from his talk page [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ARbaish&diff=110958104&oldid=110947491]... twice [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rbaish&curid=7627356&diff=111376394&oldid=111233376]
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* Has a history of deleting warnings from his talk page [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rbaish&diff=prev&oldid=103861295],
* Has a history of deleting warnings from his talk page [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rbaish&diff=prev&oldid=103861295],


* Rbaish deleted an entire sourced section and a graphic from [[White Christian male]] twice, even though I had [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AWhite_Christian_male&diff=111752369&oldid=110409409 brought up] the idea of adding this new and sourced information on the talk page to help balance the article. [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=White_Christian_male&diff=prev&oldid=111801610 10:51, March 1, 2007] (deleted info was restored by [[user:Berserkerz Crit]] and then deleted again within the hour --> ) [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=White_Christian_male&diff=111806907&oldid=111802455 11:42, March 1, 2007] I have not reverted this change to avoid an "edit war" [[User:Futurebird|futurebird]] 13:34, 1 March 2007 (UTC) ... thrid time [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=White_Christian_male&curid=9046403&diff=111867310&oldid=111861982 17:40, March 1, 2007] [[User:Futurebird|futurebird]] 21:09, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
*While probably not technically vandalism, the anonymous IP editor has engaged in nonstop edit warring, using disingenuous or nonsensical edit summaries (or none at all), such as "neutralizing" at [[Cool (aesthetic)]] to delete text wholesale[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Cool_%28aesthetic%29&diff=110935603&oldid=110921034] -- with a clear bias against material related to African and African-American culture. This is ''not'' "giving it a worldwide view" (per [[User:Urthogie]]'s comment below), but deliberatly skewing the article toward Europe/whites. Edits from this IP address elsewhere display a clear anti-black animus (and I'm being charitable here) with a complete disregard for balance or fairness.[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Black_supremacy&diff=110739442&oldid=110732148][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Black_supremacy&diff=110739442&oldid=110732148][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Black_supremacy&diff=110390580&oldid=prev].
:[[User:Rbaish]] has demonstrated similar disruptive behavior in some of the same articles, twisting sources, attempting to censor other voices by wholesale deletion of text without any attempt at justification, citing as authorities and sources some of the most unencyclopedic, inflammatory and blatantly racist voices in the media today, and edit-warring to push an if not blatantly racist agenda, certainly a paleocon one that is hostile to blacks, generally (note the stars and bars on his user page) -- and to truth, fairness and balance as well.[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Black_supremacy&diff=prev&oldid=88792798][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=White_privilege_%28sociology%29&diff=prev&oldid=88821845][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=White_privilege_%28sociology%29&diff=prev&oldid=95001582][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=White_American&diff=prev&oldid=97830471][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Ethnic_cleansing&diff=prev&oldid=100448049][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Brian_Leonard&diff=prev&oldid=102789625][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Black_supremacy&diff=prev&oldid=103710854][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=White_privilege_%28sociology%29&diff=prev&oldid=107154265][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Black_supremacy&diff=prev&oldid=110305790][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Black_supremacy&diff=prev&oldid=110306328][http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Black_supremacy&diff=prev&oldid=110483128]
:Yeah. I know this isn't an RfC against Rabaish, but the diffs provided certainly indicate a similarity of attitudes and MO. (Besides, IMO, it's time someone took this guy on in an RfC. Here's some ammo.) [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] 08:48, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


* <strike>71.112.7.212 deleted information from [[Cool (aesthetic)]] ''again''... this is getting old. ---> [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Cool_%28aesthetic%29&curid=2293744&diff=111926743&oldid=111897764 22:10, March 1, 2007]</strike> Doh! All IPs must look the same to me. This was not 71.112.7.212, but rather 71.224.241.18... [[User:Futurebird|futurebird]] 22:19, 1 March 2007 (UTC)


* Rbaish vandalized new article on [[Health and intelligence]], changed the name of section heading from "racism" to "racism as an excuse" here [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Race_and_health&curid=9819863&diff=114309438&oldid=114203419 14:56 March 11, 2007] and here again [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Race_and_health&curid=9819863&diff=114338443&oldid=114324356 17:48, March 11, 2007] Shortly after IP 71.112.7.212 questions the Notability of [[Joseph L. Graves]] --> [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Joseph_L._Graves&diff=114358363&oldid=114147774 19:24, March 11, 2007], 71.112.7.212's edit was not hostile, although, it may have been less than warranted. I include it to show that both of these users seem to focus on new articles that I create. [[User:Futurebird|futurebird]] 20:39, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
;Comments


Hmm. This doesn't seem to have any evidence of "sockpuppetry", it's just futurebird's criticism of Rbaish's editing. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:71.112.7.212|71.112.7.212]] ([[User talk:71.112.7.212|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/71.112.7.212|contribs]]){{#if:{{{2|}}}|&#32;{{{2}}}|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
*The anonymous IP didn't vandalize [[Cool (aesthetic)]], in fact they added great info to it giving it a worldwide view.--[[User:Urthogie|Urthogie]] 05:54, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


;Comments
::The edit links you've helpfully added here show that he has been violating [[Wikipedia:NPOV]] (giving undue weight to racist/white supremacist positions). But it also seems like he's been reverted when he's broken the rules significantly. So what's the big problem?--[[User:Urthogie|Urthogie]] 14:18, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
:::That you even ask the question is absurd. The "big problem" is the integrity of the project. People get weary of fighting the same old battles. People have lives beyond Wikipedia and often tire of watching the ongoing activities of people like Rbaish and the anonymous IP editor, who repeatedly willfully and seriously undermine the integrity/credibility of the project. In this case, if not banned entirely from editing, they should be enjoined from editing articles with black content and with content related to "race" and ethnicity. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] 17:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
::::<s>These very same arguments have been directed at you, and the only reason they got anywhere is because of your personal attacks, and your having pissed off a bunch of people. But just having a fringe, prejudiced POV and getting reverted a bunch isn't enough to get punished-- there has to be something extra like sock puppetry, harassment, or personal attacks involved to warrant that. If this guy turns out to be a sockpuppet, then I'll support punishing him or whatever.--[[User:Urthogie|Urthogie]] 18:58, 27 February 2007 (UTC)</s> You're right, this isn't about you and I responded more to how you phrased your comments, rather than their actual basically true points.--[[User:Urthogie|Urthogie]] 23:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:But there's a difference. The POV charges against me are unsubstantiated/unjustified. I often have differing perspectives, yes, from other editors. The difference is I have a history of working with them, even working to improve text that I don't agree with. There's absolutely no comparison between me and Rbaish or the anonymous IP editor. And I disagree. Constantly edit warring (wholesale deletion of properly sourced text, repeated insertion of blatantly racist viewpoints, deliberately twisting source material so that it misrepresents what the original text actually said -- all with the aim of inserting racist, fringe viewpoint into articles dealing with black matters and issues related to race -- yes, those things taken collectively are certainly sufficient to have someone barred from editing articles on such subject matter. Their edits cannot be trusted. They are disruptive and militate against the integrity of the project. And, ''again'', this isn't about me. Rbaish and the anonymous IP editor's words speak for themsevles. [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] 19:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::: Well, he did edit my talk page. (See the link) And he has deleted comments I left for him. All comments were civil. One may not remove a charge of sock puppetry for 5 days, he has done this twice, and the edit war keeps going on at the "cool" article. Is that enough? [[User:Futurebird|futurebird]] 19:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:::::::he can remove it if he likes, since there is no evidence here. editing your userpage is not evidence of a sockpuppet is it? but i kind of like this page. i bet rbaish does too. now we know all about deeceevoice. futurebird i dont get your beef with me. i have not been mean to you or whatever. [[User:71.112.7.212|71.112.7.212]] 06:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

This check user request is a bad faith request initiated by Deeceevoice, who accused not only Rbaish and IP editors of "edit warring" but also myself [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Futurebird&diff=next&oldid=110383471] [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Futurebird&diff=110350597&oldid=110152797] [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Deeceevoice&diff=prev&oldid=111288986] eventhough one simple click on the article history and the users block logs reveals that neither Rbaish nor the IPs nor myself ever violated 3RR even if the IP and Rbaish would be one and the same. That can't be said about Deeceevoice who frequently violates 3rr and who reacts to blocks with "Like I give a sh*t" [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Deeceevoice&diff=109146354&oldid=109145409] "Response: bulls***" [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Deeceevoice&diff=82278274&oldid=82263418] and "I honestly couldn't care ''less'' about your block. " [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Deeceevoice&diff=83874957&oldid=83854782]

Deeceevoice has a long history [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Deeceevoice/Evidence]of trying to solve content disputes with personal attacks and racially-related incivility ("cracker morons" [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Matt_Crypto&diff=prev&oldid=84011395] "white-breads" [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Absolon&diff=prev&oldid=102277064] "white folks are simply ignorant by default".
[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Afrocentrism&diff=next&oldid=10140430] "Harriet Tubman woulda had to shoot knee-grows like you."
[http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Deeceevoice&diff=prev&oldid=70144109]) and by accusing opposing editors of racism, editwarring and sockpuppetry. In a matter of fact, Deeceevoice is still on probabtion for this kind of behavoir [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Deeceevoice/Proposed_decision].

Furthermore, it's not user Rbaish but Deeceevoice who is expressing a blatantly racist agenda such as stating that advocating the genocides of whites is "black oral tradition" to which she "would have laughed and nodded in agreement" herself [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Talk:Black_supremacy&diff=next&oldid=103784664]
and who tries to push this kind of biased POV into the articles [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Black_supremacy&diff=105380758&oldid=105371130] [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Black_supremacy&diff=110293747&oldid=110293595] [http://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Black_supremacy&diff=110379672&oldid=110379412][[User:CoYep|CoYep]] 17:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
:lol I was wondering how long it would take you to get here. First off, you need to brush up on your reading -- or fix something else. This request was initiated by ''[[User: futurebird]]''. (Let me pull your coat: all black folks don't look alike, we don't all know each other, and we ''certainly'' aren't all the same person -- just using different IP addresses.) Just as any review of the instances in which I've accused you of edit warring will bear out the validity of such charges, any review of my edits will clearly show that I repeatedly bend over backwards to reason with edit warriors. But after a while, yep, I sometimes ''don't'' give a sh*t! But news flash (again), CoYep: ''This isn't about me.'' :p [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] 18:01, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:Ya know? I just went back and checked out some of the garbage leveled at me over a year ago (which means, incidentally, I'm no longer on probation. Sorry to disappoint you, CoYep.). I'm just now reading it. That garbage about POV editing focused on my ''talk'' page comments on an article on Janis Joplin. Last I checked, personal opinion on talk pages isn't against wiki policy. (Duh.) What utter bull! And the allegedly POV edit I did in the article itself was of a sentence that said that Joplin "arguably" could generate the same kind of excitement as (name some black artists). Now, ''please''. I'd delete such an unsourced, weasel-worded POV statement again -- any day of the week! [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] 21:35, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

:Oh. And one more thing: "Racist"? That's a flat-out lie. Watch it, u (*@#)!@*#@(&$!*! [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] 18:02, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

::what revisionism. ya know ya called people crakkkas, expressed approval at the idea that white people be exterminated, called this place enemy territory, insult other cultures and minimize their significance, removed photos of everyone except blacks. seems racist to me. thanks so much coyep for the links. and looks like you are still on probation deeceevoice. no one said you get to become mr hyde after a year is up.
::You just can't ''help'' yourself, can you? Twisting the truth here, just as you do in your article edits. But, oh, yeah. This isn't ''about'' me -- ''is'' it? :p [[User:Deeceevoice|deeceevoice]] 07:28, 28 February 2007 (UTC)


*A discussion which is mostly about the conduct of another user has been moved to this case's [[Wikipedia talk:Suspected sock puppets/Rbaish|talk page.]] Please restrict your comments to the case. [[User:Akhilleus|--Akhilleus]] ([[User talk:Akhilleus|talk]]) 02:58, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
*Could someone clarify exactly how these accounts are being used to circumvent policy? I see some behavior which is possibly a matter for [[WP:DR|dispute resolution]], but I don't see a clear-cut policy violation (for example, the account/IP combo being used to violate 3RR). [[User:Akhilleus|--Akhilleus]] ([[User talk:Akhilleus|talk]]) 06:46, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
*Can editors that create these things without a coherent rationale be sanctioned or censured? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:71.112.7.212|71.112.7.212]] ([[User talk:71.112.7.212|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/71.112.7.212|contribs]]){{#if:{{{2|}}}|&#32;{{{2}}}|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
;Conclusions
;Conclusions
Rbaish has already been blocked for disruption, as has the IP. I'm relatively certain it's the same editor, but we shall hope he's learned the lesson. Regardless of that, disruptive editing can and will lead to a block. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 09:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)



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Latest revision as of 05:19, 25 June 2007