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#REDIRECT [[Talk:Video game]]
==Proposal for structure change==
''It is proposed that a general articel on '''Computer and video games''' be created to give an overview of the topic for the novice, and provide links to other, more specific articles for the passionate. This article is being drafted at [[Talk:Computer game/Computer and video games]]''. It is proposed that the articles on [[Computer game]], [[Video game]], [[Adventure]], [[Interactive fiction]] and [[Arcade game]] would remain, but focus on elements that are unique to those subcategories. Please edit, and discuss!'' [[User:Mark Richards|Mark Richards]] 23:16, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

==Computer game redirect==

''Nitpick: I would disagree with redirecting "computer game" to "video game." Plainly, not all computer games are video games, as anyone who recognizes "phlug" and "a hollow voice says..." knows very well. If anything, the broader genus is indeed "computer game." Anyway, I'd say both deserve their own pages. MHO.''

Video game is generally considered to be broader - people often refer to Quake as a video game, people never refer to Mario as a computer game. See for instance the [http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/03/21/2018208&mode=thread recent /. article] - it's never mentioned whether or not computer games are responsible for violence. Etymologically you'd be more correct, but people rarely worry about that sort of thing when they talk. Heck, note Zork and Ultima were already here.

The separation of the two is certainly canon, and I agree that it makes good sense for older games. The problem is that the distinction necessarily carries itself forward to the present, where it becomes a harmful anachronism. Games slip back and forth all the time, and Mario and Goldeneye pair up far better with Keen and Quake then which each other. Emulators make things even worse. This merging was brought about by the suggestion we be platform agnostic, and I can't say I disagree - there's plenty of room for separation when talking about genres or history. --[[User:Josh Grosse|JG]]

:Unfortunately the phrase "computer and video games" is accurate and even gamers will not object to it, but it does not roll trippingly off the tongue. Perhaps as a subhead to articles containing 'video game' we include some semi-disclaimer like ''Note on semantics: Gamers distinguish "video game" (a game on a video game console or in an arcade cabinet) from "computer game" (a game played on a personal computer). For brevity we use the term "video game" throughout Wikipedia.'' --[[User:Tempshill|Tempshill]]

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==Genre pigeonholing==

But how to pigeonhole games by genre?
There are so many examples of series that span many genre's and styles, that appear at first glance to be one thing, but are in fact another.
Take for example the [[:Tomb Raider|Tomb Raider]] entry, the fact that the first 3 instalments are [[:3d|3d]] doesn't make it a 3d series, "huh?!?" there is a [[:2d|2d]] [[:Game Boy| Game Boy Color]] Tomb Raider.
But that's just the beginning.
A better example again is [[:Panzer Dragoon|Panzer Dragoon]], the first two games were on the rail shooters, the third, Panzer Dragoon Saga was an [[Role-playing game|RPG]].
Best yet is [[:Super Mario Brothers|Super Mario]]; [[:2d|2d]] [[:platform game|platform game]]? or [[:3d|3d]] platform game? or kart racing game? or all three and then some more.

I haven't the answer, perhaps games that aren't so readily defined should he left just that, undefined. --[[User:Neeklamy|Neeklamy]]

:Those examples aren't really cross-genre games, but series that span several genres - particularly the last, since Mario Kart is a different series altogether. But you have a good point, many games are going to be problematic. I think probably the best way to handle this would be to just mention them in multiple categories, and for truly unique games (Robot Odyssey) make an other category. ''Most'' games fall very clearly into one genre or another - platformers, first person shooters, and RPGs have each had hundreds of nearly identical titles.

::You got me there! But really, there are plenty of actual cross-genre games; how about those shoot em up levels in [[:Super Mario Brothers|Super Mario Land]], or more recent still, the racing in [[:Shenmue|Shenmue]]. Slight diversions maybe, but the last few years have seen more games tackling several genres, probably the best known example is [[:Final Fantasy VII|Final Fantasy VII]]. --[[User:Neeklamy|Neeklamy]]

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==Genre sections==

Is the video game section going to be exhaustive? I presume so, so each genre now has a subpage. I suggest there be no more than half a dozen good examples of each genre on the main page, with the full list being on the specific subpage. --[[User:Neeklamy|Neeklamy]]

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==Other FPS==

I suppose I'm being unnecessarily picky in re: [[:Video game/FPS|Video game/FPS]], but has anyone ever heard of any ''other'' kind of first person shooter? For instance, a first-person shooter movie, perhaps, or a poem, or maybe a painting? --KQ

:Not too sure I follow what you mean KQ, do you mean FPS games that involve something other than just shooting, like System Shock perhaps? or the upcoming Metroid Prime?

::No, I mean I've never heard of any other kind of first-person shooter, so why not just call it "first-person shooter," rather than "video game/first-person shooter"? I don't think they exist except as a video game.

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==Reorg Needed==

This page, and [[Video Game/History]] sure do seem old-fashioned compared the the sleek, modern Wikipedia page. Very little has happened to them in a long time. Not my field, but a great opportunity for someone for some synthesis and reorganization. [[User:Ortolan88|Ortolan88]] 20:56 Aug 8, 2002 (PDT)

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==Video game just US?==

Is "Video game" US terminology? To my antiquated UK perception there are "computer games" and "console games" of various genre (text, shoot em up, platform, simulation, ...) I have never heard of "video game" as a term before.
-- [[User:SGBailey|SGBailey]] 23:14 Jan 17, 2003 (UTC)

:Most of this article should be under computer games. Videogame is an archaic term from the 1970s/80s. [[User:Vera Cruz|Vera Cruz]]

::Just to lend support to the idea that games which use are not necessarily known as video games in this country (UK). In fact here, the term 'video' lends itself more to what would be called a VCR in other countries - i.e. to record television broadcasts, or a device which does this. It would be interesting to hear what goes on around other parts of the world? [[User:Kabads|Kabads]]

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==Computer vs. Video Game==

I also think video game and computer game should be differentiated, because computer games include textual games which could be played purely verbally (by a blind person for instance), while video games by definition have an integral visual component. The pages should be about games, then both can link to a separate [[List of computer and video games]]. [[User:Stan Shebs|Stan]] 16:12 Mar 4, 2003 (UTC)

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==Updated listing==

Whew. Re-organized and updated the video game listing to make it alphabetical and more aesthetically pleasing. Also rearranged some games to more properly fit under a genre, ie, [[Sokoban]] is listed as a puzzle game, now. With regards to "console game" vs. "video game" vs. "computer game", I feel that "video game" is an all-encompassing term, and console, computer, and arcade should each have their own pages that would be linked to from "video game." MHO. [[User:Timmyd|TimmyD]] 08:29 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)

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==Moved comment from article==

Moved this paragraph from the article (just before the list of genres):
:This list could be improved on, and the titles relisted to those of great importance. Video games may also be categorized temporally -- one may be a [[turn-based game]] or a [[continuous game]] -- or in terms of the sort of display they have - [[2d]], [[3d]], [[fixed 3d]], and so forth -- though these tend to be more flexible. Of course all of these categories are somewhat overlapping and incomplete , [[GTA]] for example is an [[Adventure game|adventure]], a [[Video_game/TPS|shooter]] and [[2d|2D]] or [[3d|3D]] depending on version.
I reworded what I left to make it descriptive of the list. But the paragraph above really doesn't belong in the article—it's a discussion of what the article needs.--[[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]]

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==Reorganized Genre section==

I just totally reformatted the Genre section. The old way drove me nuts! I realize that now the TOC is totally overloaded, but perhaps someone could do more reformatting so just the main genres are listed? I also added descriptions to each type of genre for a brief overview of the genre so they don't have to navigate to the entry to find out what the genre contains (they can still surf there for an in-depth discussion). I also added the new genre [[Serious game]]s and re-alphabatized game listings. Comments, criticisms appreciated... —[[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]] 17:52, 1 Oct 2003 (UTC)

:I've pushed the concept a little further - there are now a couple dedicated lists (the lists here were missing many game articles), and I think this article should prune down to only mention the 3-4 best-known games in each genre, so it can focus on narrative, while the lists can be exhaustive/ing. :-) Then some of the subheadings can become plain paragraphs, and the TOC is less frightful. Also the lists are both computer and video games, which finesses that debate... [[User:Stan Shebs|Stan]] 06:25, 31 Oct 2003 (UTC)


I was wondering, what genre would be appropriate for games such as the video game adapations of [[Law and Order]] and [[CSI: Crime Scene Investigations]]. Are they a simulation or something else?
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==Top Video Games==

Do we really want this list in the article? It'll have to be changed from year to year. Wouldn't it be better to have a seperate article for these types of lists (I generally dislike articles which are just lists, but in this case I think it is fitting)? Anyone else?

Also, it seems to me that the section ''Video Game Criticism'' duplicates material already in [[video game controversy]]. I added a ''See also'' to that article, but perhaps we should look at merging the info into the seperate article. —[[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]] 19:17, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

:Yes, top games are good for separate lists (lists are indexes, and when you have 170K+ articles, indexes are critical to have), or if someone is really obsessed, [[2002 in gaming]]. 1/2 :-) [[User:Stan Shebs|Stan]] 20:04, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

::I included the top video game list because I thought it would be a common FAQ for someone who was to look up "video game" in wikipedia. It seemed appropriate since we have a giant list of games beneath it in the genre list, many of which are obscure, and the top 10 list would additionally help give some perspective. Updating the list of ten games every year (and possibly archiving the list as suggested above) is not an onerous task. Actually I'll take the above suggestion literally and create that link.

:: Thanks for the 'video game controversy' note; I wasn't aware it existed. I still think the overview is appropriate in the 'video game' article -- 1 paragraph on morals and 1 paragraph on shallowness. [[User:Tempshill|Tempshill]] 02:11, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

:::That's the right approach - main articles should summarize and set context briefly, then link to in-depth articles for the readers who get deeply interested. [[User:Stan Shebs|Stan]] 05:10, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

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==Not So Notable People==

I'm going to trim the entries of "Notable People" since many of the entries, frankly, aren't so notable. Here are the ones I propose to trim since their contributions to the [[video game industry]] are negligible. If anyone can demonstrate why they should be left in, please discuss here:
*[[Koji Kondo]] -- music composer for [[Mario]] and [[Legend of Zelda series|Legend of Zelda]] series ([[Nintendo]])
*[[Ken Kutaraji]] -- President of Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc.
*[[Nakano Ritsuki]] (later known as Rikki) -- vocalist for Suteki Da Ne of Final Fantasy X
*[[Kou Shibusawa]] -- producer of Sangokushi series and Nobunaga_no_ yabo series
*[[Koichi Sugiyama]] -- music composer for Dragon Quest series (Square Enix)
*[[Hirokazu 'Hip' Tanaka]] -- President of Pokemon Co. and music composer for Metroid, Kid Icarus, and Super Mario Land
*[[Toshiro Tsuchida]] -- Front Mission series
*[[Yuka Tsujiyoko]] -- music composer for Fire Emblem series, Paper Mario, and part of Tetris Attack (Nintendo, Intelligent Systems)
*[[Nobuo Uematsu]] -- music composer for Final Fantasy series and Ehrgeiz (Square Enix)
*[[Hiroshi Yamauchi]] -- former president of Nintendo and predecessor of Satoru Iwata
I'd like to keep the list trimmed to those individuals who have had a significant impact on video games or the industry. The people above, I feel, do not qualify and were most likely added by fans of the games they contributed to. While many of the games these people worked on are notable, their contribution doesn't merit inclusion in the list IMHO. I suggest someone start a [[List of notable video game industry people]] if they want to include every single person in the video game industry. From the entries above, it looks like there may need to be another list, [[List of notable video game composers]]. Anyway, I appreciate any feedback before I yank the people listed above. —[[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]] 16:56, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

: I'm with you on everybody except [[Ken Kutaraji]], who is the father of both Playstations. He's far more than just a faceless executive. I'm surprised we don't have an article about him already - there was a great biography of him in Wired magazine a couple of years ago. Sigh - another thing for my TODO list ;) --- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] 17:06, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

:: It's also mis-transliterated; the official version seems to be [[Ken Kutaragi]]. [http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.05/deathmatch.html]

:In this context, you'd want to pick the 5-10 most notable for this article, and move everybody else to a list that can grow unboundedly. Also make it [[list of computer and video game people]] to finesse the computer game/video game debate. Dunno if composers need to be separate, unles useful for music-related articles? [[User:Stan Shebs|Stan]] 17:29, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

:BTW, adding "notable" to a list of people is redundant; presumably we only add them because they're notable (or are we preparing for a [[list of non-notable video game people]] too? :-) ) [[User:Stan Shebs|Stan]] 17:32, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I'm fine with keeping [[Ken Kutaragi]]—I had no idea who he was and just being CEO of a gaming company doesn't, IMHO, make one "notable." If he is really the "father of the PS1 and PS2" we should perhaps add that to his credit line. I'm neutral on changing the heading to something else. But just "People" sounds too short to me. Awaiting further comments. —[[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]] 19:06, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

: ''being CEO of a gaming company doesn't, IMHO, make one "notable."''. Absolutely. I believe he was pretty junior when he started the PS1 project (in secret). Apparently playstation is the only division of Sony that keeps the whole company afloat, and it seems certain Kutaragi will be the next CEO of Sony as a whole. But I digress ... -- [[User:Finlay McWalter|Finlay McWalter]] 19:36, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

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==Plea to merge==

Please can we merge [[Computer game]] and [[Video game]]? I see the discussion above, but we already have [[Adventure game]] and [[Interactive fiction]]. There is much duplication and it is frankly very confusing. [[User:209.102.127.120|209.102.127.120]] 05:24, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

:Well, I'm in the camp of keeping them seperate. A computer game can be a video game, but not always. Some computer games aren't video games at all. There's a reason they are seperate. Yes, there is some duplication, but Wikipedia is not paper. —[[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]] 15:39, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I'm proposing that we take a crack at merging them at [[Talk:Computer game/Computer and video games]] - can we try, and then discuss it if we still hate it before we make any move? [[User:Mark Richards|Mark Richards]] 19:03, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

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==Notable list again==

Just looking over the current state of the list again. It looks much better now, with the exception of two entries:
*[[Yuji Horii]] -- [[Dragon Quest]] series, [[Chrono Trigger]]
*[[Hironobu Sakaguchi]] -- [[Final Fantasy]] series and [[Chrono Trigger]] ([[Square Enix]])

Are the [[Dragon Quest]] series and [[Chrono Trigger]] that big of a deal? I know [[Final Fantasy]] is very notable, but personally I can't recall the other two at all. I know we have a huge article on Dragon Quest, but that doesn't mean the game had a significant impact on the industry. Am I just out of touch or were the two game series actually as obscure as I think? —[[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]] 14:50, Apr 16, 2004 (UTC)

:I'd agree that those two aren't very notable. [[User:Fredrik|Fredrik]] 00:23, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)

::Dragon Quest, or Dragon Warrior in the US, was one of the first console RPGs, and remains insanely popular in Japan - as much so as Final Fantasy. Chrono Trigger is another Square RPG for the SNES that was at one point so popular that used copies of it were going for $100 on eBay until Square rereleased it for the Playstation. Both are classic RPGs, and belong on the list of notables. Though I agree with anyone who says the list needs to be expanded. [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 14:53, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Well, I'm with [[User:Fredrik|Fredrik]] that those games aren't that notable. I've worked in the [[video game industry]] since [[1993]] and I never heard of them. Granted, I'm not able to keep up with ''all'' games that come out, but the big ones I usually catch wind of. If they are just a phenomena in [[Japan]], I doubt they desrve a place in the list.

Expanding the list is fine, just as long as the people are ''notable''. For example, I wrote the article on [[Jordan Mechner]], but I'm unsure whether he deserves a place in the list or not.

I don't want to engage in an edit war, so let's resolve this here before making any more changes. Anyone else want to jump into the debate? —[[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]] 15:12, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

:Dragon Quest/Warrior has a devoted fandom in the US, though not as big as its Japanese fandom. That said, US-centrism is discussed in [[NPOV]] as something that we wish would go away, so its huge Japanese success is worth noting. (To give you an idea of scale, Dragon Quest is why Enix was a big enough name for Square to merge with them)

:ChronoTrigger is not only successful in Japan, but in the US. As I said, it was at one point going for $100 used, and in the current GameFAQs "Best Game Ever" poll/contest it has the #1 seed in the 16-bit division. It's a wildly popular game.

:I would argue against the inclusion of Mechner, on the other hand - his contributions seem to be technological rather than design-based, and the Prince of Persia series largely petered out, and doesn't really have a continued fanbase. (Even the release of Sands of Time hasn't spurred that much interest in the older games) But if you added him, I wouldn't go and delete him either. [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 15:21, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I didn't go off and just delete the entries. I asked for input first and the only response I got was "they're not notable" so I removed them (and left in the ''Final Fantasy'' creator [[Hironobu Sakaguchi]]). As far as Mechner goes, he designed, programmed (I think) and created the graphics for ''Prince of Persia''. Even though PoP had an impact on the industry, I don't think it was significant enough to include in the list. And I agree that the new game isn't breaking any sort of records—the quality of animation in them is now pretty much industry standard. —[[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]] 15:36, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

:It's fine - I'm not saying you just went off and deleted the entries. I just didn't notice this issue until I saw the edit go up on recent changes, and since it's a topic I'm knowledgeable on, I checked up on the edits. What I meant was that if he were on the list, I wouldn't object to it, but if he were not on the list, I wouldn't add him. Sorry if I came off as hostile. Are we agreed on leaving the Dragon Warrior and Chrono Trigger stuff then? [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 15:41, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Note to Snowspinner: GameFAQs polls are hardly a measure of anything :) But although it's true that these games are popular, popularity alone doesn't make the people behind them notable. This is really a minor issue though as long as the list is about as short as it is right now. [[User:Fredrik|Fredrik]] 15:43, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

:Were it just Chrono Trigger, that would be one thing. I think the Dragon Quest creator should definitely be included, however, and given that we have two creators of Chrono Trigger on the list already, it makes sense to mention it as one of their achievements.

:I would like to see this list expanded, though - creator of Resident Evil? Mega Man? Roberta Williams? John Romero? I'll fix this sometime. [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 15:46, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I don't think the issue is settled until people stop talking about it here. :-) I agree that [[Roberta Williams]] should be included (kind of on the fence about [[John Romero|Romero]], however—after ''[[Daikatana]]'', he's had a hard time getting respect anymore. Also, ''DOOM'' and ''Quake'' were more notable for their technology rather than their stories). —[[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]] 16:07, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

: If I recall, though, Romero was also heavily doing level design, which I think the games were notable for. And even if, post-Daikatana, he's something of a wreck, what a spectacular flame-out. Indeed, he's a very notable flame-out. [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 16:11, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

:Romero did some level design for both DOOM and Quake, and both are acknowledged as having brilliant level design. He also did some programming for DOOM, but that was minor - he created the level editor and the game code for doors and elevators and such stuff. The reason Romero might be notable is that he used to be a superstar with an inflated super-ego, certainly one of the most recognized figures of the industry. What happened later with Daikatana hasn't reduced his notability, only converted fame into notoriousness. I don't quite support including him in the list at the moment, though. [[User:Fredrik|Fredrik]] 16:23, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

In general, "notable" should be a pretty broad category - if someone is worth writing a WP article about, they must be at least that notable! In the interests of NPOV, we want to look for ways to make the "notability" decision algorithmic rather than personal; I personally would make it broad and say "principal developer(s) of any published game", since that helps make a complete web of people and games, but one could also make it narrower and say "only people involved with million-sellers" or some such (and yes, that would cut out respected games with poor sales, thus my preference for "any game"). An additional shorter list of "most important" or "most influential" should simply quote some authority's list, we really don't want to get into ridiculous fights about whether Carmack is more important than Crawford or whatever. :-) [[User:Stan Shebs|Stan]] 16:09, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

:I think that those fights are important. I mean, yeah, it's a value judgment. But if we have enough people who seriously follow the video game industry discussing it, something sensible will get hammered out. [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 16:11, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

How about creating an article [[List of notable game industry figures]] (or something similar)? I think a complete list would be valuable, but I think it would just clutter the main article. This article could link to it and those interested could surf to it. I'd like to keep the list in the article concise. I'm not opposed to changing the name of the section, however. I like "Most influential," but that issue isn't a huge deal to me. —[[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]] 16:25, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

:Sounds reasonable. I suggest [[List of people in the game industry]] and keeping the list in [[video game]] about as concise as it is right now. The longer list could be sectioned into game designers, composers, artists, company executives, etc. [[User:Fredrik|Fredrik]] 16:31, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Here, here! The list we have in the article could be used as a springboard for anyone interested in creating it. But I vote for [[List of game industry people]] or [[List of game industry figures]]. —[[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]] 16:34, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

:[[Major figures in the video game industry]], perhaps? Or maybe just [[Major figures in video games]], but that list sounds like it might be Mario, Link, Sonic, etc. [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 16:56, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I agree. Perhaps [[List of game industry people]] is the best option. It is unambiguous and identical in meaning to [[List of people in the game industry]], just more concise. For lists, I think we have to begin the name with "List." —[[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]] 17:03, Apr 20, 2004 (UTC)

:Sounds good. [[User:Fredrik|Fredrik]] 17:11, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

::Done! [[User:Snowspinner|Snowspinner]] 17:16, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)


==Video games vs Console games==
We're having the mergence debate over at [[:Category:Computer and video games]] as well. My first question is what the difference is between a '''Video game''' and a '''Console game'''. If there isn't any, then I suggest that we use Video game as the umbrella term and Console game to refer to those specifically for any console.

Not only would be it be linguistically correct (all arcade and computer games are technically video games), but it would allow us to keep the articles and their histories seperate while giving us a managable name (other wise we'd need something like '''List of sports computer, arcade and video games''', which is just unwieldly). [[User:Oberiko|Oberiko]] 10:15, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)

: Console game, arcade game, video game, and computer game are very ''similar'' terms, but not identical. Console games and arcade games are mutually exclusive subsets of video games (although there are some arcade games that have been remade into console games, muddying the mutual-exclusion slightly). Computer games and video games overlap, but neither are subsets of each other. The water is even ''further'' muddied by the [[X-Box]]. Computer or console? Here's a [[Venn diagram]] of how I see the terms (not to scale):
-------------------------------
| |
| Video games |
| |
| --------- -------- |
| | Console | | Arcade | |
| | games | | games | |
| --------- -------- |
| |
| -------------------+-------
| | | |
-----------+------------------- |
| |
| Computer games |
| |
---------------------------
: Almost _all_ of the computer games that fall outside of the "video games" territory are old text-based "adventures". I don't think there's been a major new non-video computer game written in at least ten years. Feel free to prove me wrong, though. - [[User:Plutor|Plutor]] 17:56, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I think the real problem is that "computer games", on Wikipedia and elsewhere, is mainly used to refer to "PC games instead of console games" rather than "electronic games that may or may not use video". [[User:Fredrik|Fredrik]] [[User talk:Fredrik|(talk)]] 18:27, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Maybe on [[computer game]] we could add something like:
:''There are two common definitions for "computer game":''
::''1. Any electronic game''
::''2. An electronic game, particularly a video game, played on a personal computer''
:''This article is about the latter.''
[[User:Fredrik|Fredrik]] [[User talk:Fredrik|(talk)]] 18:45, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

: How many people use the term '''computer game''' to refer to a game that isn't played on a computer? Would you call [[Poker]] a [[board game]]? Sarcasm aside, maybe this is a regional or international dialect issue? Where do you live? The only use of "computer game" I have ever heard is use 2. My Venn diagram simply demonstrates that some computer games don't use video (i.e. [[Zork]]), and thus aren't video games. - [[User:Plutor|Plutor]] 19:29, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

::The very point is the difference between [[computer]] and [[personal computer]] (since a console is, technically speaking, also a computer). [[Computer game]] points to [[computer]], but should instead point to [[personal computer]] if we accept definition 2 as being the norm. [[User:Fredrik|Fredrik]] [[User talk:Fredrik|(talk)]] 19:52, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

:::What I would like to do is use [[Video games]] as a universal cover-all umbrella term which then has three children, [[Console games]], [[Arcade games]], and [[PC games]]. It would allow a quick designation for things (say, for example, a Baseball game is available for all systems, right now it would have to be under the category [[:Category:Baseball computer, arcade and video games]] as oppossed to just [[:Category:Baseball video games]].

:::As for the computer games that aren't part of video games, perhaps have a linking article within the [[PC games]] category that points to non-video computer games. [[User:Oberiko|Oberiko]] 22:26, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

::::The name "PC games" might upset Mac people, though :) - [[User:Fredrik|Fredrik]] [[User talk:Fredrik|(talk)]] 22:41, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)

::::Aren't Mac's considered a type of Personal Computer, even on technicallity? Even so, it's still simpler to solve this with a modified system then the current one I'd think. [[User:Oberiko|Oberiko]] 23:43, 17 Jun 2004 (UTC)


==Vote==
We're holding a vote on wheter or not '''Video games''' should be an umbrella term or not. Go to [[:Category talk:Computer and video games]] to cast. [[User:Oberiko|Oberiko]] 12:29, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

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==Extern links==

The extern links section is getting pretty lengthy. I propose we split it up into different sub-sections to make it more useful. Example sub-sections could include Reviews, Technical info, Development, Directories, etc. Anyone have any other subsection ideas? [[User:Frecklefoot|<nowiki></nowiki>]]&mdash; [[User:Frecklefoot|Frecklefoot]] | [[User talk:Frecklefoot|Talk]] 14:11, Jul 30, 2004 (UTC)

==Choosing article names by what they are called in their production locale==
It has come to concern me that the [[English language]] [[Wikipedia]] articles for [[video game]] topics tend to center on the [[North America]]n or [[United States]] [[locale]]s for naming articles. For example, we have article names like [[Final Fantasy Legend]] and [[Samurai Shodown]], which were not the names of these games in their production locale, [[Japan]]. Now it seems to me that, this being the English Wikipedia, it really has nothing to do with [[nationality]] &mdash; we are not Americans, not [[United Kingdom|British]], not [[Canada|Canadian]], not [[Australia]]n, not [[New Zealand]]er, etc. When we are here, we are more simply [[anglophone]]s, English-speakers, and we can come from any place on earth, whether or not it is an anglophone country. So I propose this: We name all video game related articles first according to the names of their production locale, with redirects going to that article name, and sometimes with additional articles if the subject has a very different nature in a non-native locale, such as with the separate [[PC Engine]] and [[TurboGrafx 16]] articles. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 10:12, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Also notice the [[Mega Man]] article, which is called "Rockman" in its production locale [[Japan]], and was renamed "Mega Man" in [[North America]] and [[Europe]] for [[marketing]] purposes. All alternative names (and an indication of where those names are used) could be mentioned on a single canonical article in most cases. - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 10:12, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

: There is no "native" or "alternative" -- the market is global, and often games gain release in many countries on the same date, or are released in "non-native" locales first. The "native" names aren't any more official than the others, but changing all pages so they redirect to the "native" names will ''imply'' that they are. That isn't a bit more helpful than mentioning the various names in the opener. Naming conventions in general say we go with the most common English name for a title. And to be frank, I don't want to have to put up with arguing over petty details like whether this or that is a better title, how to transliterate the name, and what country the huge, multinational corporation is actually native to. Things like [[Luigi Mario]], the [[Baby Mario]] debates, and [[Miles Prower]] already give me a headache. ~ [[User:FriedMilk|FriedMilk]] 13:28, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)

==Standardisation of videogame region terminology==

Moved to [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Computer_and_Video_Games#Standardisation_of_Videogame_region_terminology|WikiProject Computer and Video Games]].

== Screenshot ==

Any danger of a better screenshot than this? [[User:Intrigue|Intrigue]] 23:16, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

:It doesn't look too bad to me. Is there anything particular wrong with it? Perhaps you could have a look at [[:Category:Fair_use_screenshots]], and pick one of the 522 images that you look. Actually, not all are video games (or indeed games of any sort), but there are a number of video game images there to have a look at. [[User:Silverfish|Silverfish]] 00:51, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 20:30, 6 April 2009

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