Template:Did you know nominations/Piganino

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (chinwag) @ 19:31, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Piganino

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• ... that further nicknames used for the musical instrument Piganino (pictured), portrayed in the song of the same name, were "Hog Harmonium", "Swineway" or "Porko Forte"?

• alt1 ... that the noise of a Piganino (pictured) was used to allow Denis Diderot to cover printing his forbidden Encyclopédie in the French film Le Libertin?

• Reviewed: Mostafa Salameh

Created/expanded by Serten (talk). Self nominated at 02:06, 21 October 2014 (UTC).

• Date, length OK. The article is neutral, amusing and interesting, it is well cited, and I could detect no copyvio. Both hooks are confirmed by offline sources, which I AGF. The image is also amusing and is in the PD. I prefer ALT1 as it is more quirky. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 10:07, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Even after reading the article I'm not sure ALT1 makes a lot of sense. I'm not against the basic concept of ALT1, but the wording, well, how about this... Maury Markowitz (talk) 20:03, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

• ALT2 ... that in the French film Le Libertin, the noise of the mythical instrument Piganino (pictured) was used to drown out the sound of the printing presses making Denis Diderot's forbidden Encyclopédie?

• Sorry to come in and rain on the parade, (and I think the hook is a real eye-catcher) but per Wikipedia:Did you know#Content, the hook for a article about an element of fiction must in some way involve the real world. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 22:05, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

What does the "real world" mean in this context? Do you have an example I could look at? Maury Markowitz (talk) 22:14, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

@Maury Markowitz: It means something like, for instance, details about writing a book, filming a movie, where the idea for a certain fictional character came from, etc. Take a look at this DYK I was involved in for a concrete example of a hook being rejected for this reason. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 23:13, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Fair enough, I'm out. Maury Markowitz (talk) 00:01, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Umbrella: @Maury Markowitz: @G S Palmer:. First we do not talk about a completely fictitous thing, its not a WARP rocket engine, it is said to have been built once in ancient times, and it was built for a 20century film shot again. Technically its been feaseable since the middle ages. Second the hooks use of nicknames and as well the use in a film plot refers to the "real world", or do you think that the "real world" does exclude songs being used in political debates and studio work on actual films? I changed the hooks a little however. Serten (talk) 07:50, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

It may not be completely fictitious, yet both of the hooks only treat that element of the subject. Perhaps you could start a thread at WT:DYK requesting an exemption for this article? G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 17:50, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, the rule doesn't apply here. I would never start an exemption discussion, I already started one about getting rid of the rather idotic hook fact rules in general. Serten (talk) 18:42, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

• I will approve this now. length checks, expansion completed, inline citation and neutrality checks, hooks checks, good 2 go.--BabbaQ (talk) 10:55, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

• @BabbaQ: did you see the above discussion before approving this? G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 17:47, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

• Sure. Why bother? Serten (talk) 18:42, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
• Yes, I have seen the discussion above. And that is why I have decided to approve it actually. That is a discussion of "different opinions concerning certain aspects of the article", while the article itself is sufficiently sourced and ready for DYK. Any such discussion being held above can be taken to the articles talk page instead.--BabbaQ (talk) 19:46, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

• @BabbaQ: no, the discussion is about whether the hook is appropriate. And if @Serten: thinks "the rule doesn't apply here", then they had best explain why that is the case. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 16:20, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

• If all of you want to "play", that is up to you all. I am out. Cheers.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:21, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

• The issue here is WP:DYKSG#C6: If the subject is a work of fiction or a fictional character, the hook must involve the real world in some way. Both ALT1 and ALT2 run afoul of that, and I've struck them. The original hook is close, but I would like to suggest a slight rewording as ALT3:

• ALT3: ... that nicknames used for the fictional musical instrument Piganino (pictured) in the song of the same name include "Hog Harmonium", "Swineway" and "Porko Forte"?

The article also needs a copyedit before it receives final approval; in particular, the section "Striped pigs in the USA" has a number of issues. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:01, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

I dont agree with the applicability of C6 to the hooks. If you ask for copyediting, so do it, I have been told that quality or interest is of no influence for DYK if its about trout creeks in hillibilly land. I don't bother in both cases and I am not willing to featured article status. Its DYK. As with @BabbaQ:, dismiss it or have it go, I dont give a damm. Serten (talk) 07:11, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

• It's a shame you feel that way, but it's your choice. Closing nomination as unsuccessful. BlueMoonset (talk) 07:23, 12 November 2014 (UTC)