Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sinking (album): Difference between revisions

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus seems to be that this is notable based on the found sources. (non-admin closure) Smartyllama (talk) 16:48, 24 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sinking (album)

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Album that never reached the top 100, passes no notability guidelines. Redditaddict6 9 10:56, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. GameInfirmary Talk 13:08, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. GameInfirmary Talk 13:08, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ Keep No evidence of notability for the album found in search. The UK album chart normally only gives Top 100 anyway, so charting over 100 is not considered significant. Fails WP:NALBUMS. Hzh (talk) 11:38, 18 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Vote changed as Richard3120 had found additional reviews that appear to show notability (I can't check the sources, but I'm trusting they are legitimate full reviews). Hzh (talk) 12:42, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Hzh: yes, they are full reviews, not just two lines as part of a quick round-up along with a dozen other albums. Obviously you'll have to take my word for it, but I've added full details of the references, down to the page number, so that anyone who gets their hands on a copy of these music magazines can check the reviews and the quotes taken from them. The NME review in particular is quite a bit longer than the brief quotes I've extracted from it. Richard3120 (talk) 14:10, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent. It's always difficult to find sources that are not readily available online, true for a lot of subjects, therefore credit is due for finding them. Hzh (talk) 14:45, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I was surprised that this album didn't chart, given that it contains the group's two biggest hit singles, but the Aloof were a reasonably well known group on the mid-90s dance scene in the UK, and this album was their high point – the two hit singles had a fair bit of airplay on BBC Radio 1's specialist music programmes. I was confident that I would find reviews of this album, given that the group wasn't unknown, and I've added reviews from Melody Maker, NME and Q, plus an interview with them from Muzik magazine. I think this should be enough to pass WP:NALBUM as a stub article, and I would think there is probably more out there in the specialist music magazines of the time such as Mixmag and DJ Mag, which are not available online. In light of the information I have added, I don't know whether Hzh would like to reassess his/her vote. Richard3120 (talk) 21:25, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Good work finding the reviews. I would discount the AllMusic one as it is too short (I had already seen it before), as I can't check the others, if they are full reviews, then I'd be happy to change my vote. Hzh (talk) 22:04, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The album may not have sold loads of copies at the time but as mentioned the band were part of the UK dance scene and the album was critically acclaimed. Not everyone wants to read about Thriller or Sgt. Pepper! The recent additions have brought the article to a higher standard. --Geach (talk) 22:20, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - The album contains a UK top 30 single, was critically-acclaimed, has multiple references, and charted within the UK top 200 albums chart as evidenced here - http://www.zobbel.de/cluk/CLUK_A.HTM . The US Billboard chart extends to a top 200, and albums charting on it, regardless of position, are generally considered notable. The UK is one of the largest music markets in the world, therefore reaching their chart is notable.Nqr9 (talk) 00:24, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

While there may be argument for keeping, the chart is not one of them. WP:NALBUMS criteria requires that the chart to be the "country's national music chart", and in UK that is the Official Charts Company which normally lists only the top 100. Argument using Billboard is irrelevant. Hzh (talk) 10:01, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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-===[[:Sinking (album)]]===
+:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span>  Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.''
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+<!--Template:Afd top
+Note:  If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links to create a new discussion page using the name format of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PAGENAME (2nd nomination)]].  When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->
+The result was '''keep'''. Consensus seems to be that this is notable based on the found sources. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:Smartyllama|Smartyllama]] ([[User talk:Smartyllama|talk]]) 16:48, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
+===[[:Sinking (album)]]===
 <noinclude>{{AFD help}}</noinclude>
 :{{la|Sinking (album)}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sinking (album)|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2018 August 17#{{anchorencode:Sinking (album)}}|View log]]</noinclude>{{int:dot-separator}} <span class="plainlinks">[https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Sinking_(album) Stats]</span>)
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 :<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This discussion has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Albums and songs|list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions]]. [[User:Gameinfirmary|<span style="color: red; font-family: Arial Black;">GameInfirmary</span>]] [[User Talk:Gameinfirmary|<span style="color: black; font-family: Arial Black;">Talk</span>]] 13:08, 17 August 2018 (UTC)</small>
 :<small class="delsort-notice">Note:  This discussion has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Music|list of Music-related deletion discussions]]. [[User:Gameinfirmary|<span style="color: red; font-family: Arial Black;">GameInfirmary</span>]] [[User Talk:Gameinfirmary|<span style="color: black; font-family: Arial Black;">Talk</span>]] 13:08, 17 August 2018 (UTC)</small>
-* '''Delete''' No evidence of notability for the album found in search. The UK album chart normally only gives Top 100 anyway, so charting over 100 is not considered significant. Fails [[WP:NALBUMS]]. [[User:Hzh|Hzh]] ([[User talk:Hzh|talk]]) 11:38, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
+* <s>'''Delete'''</s> '''Keep''' No evidence of notability for the album found in search. The UK album chart normally only gives Top 100 anyway, so charting over 100 is not considered significant. Fails [[WP:NALBUMS]]. [[User:Hzh|Hzh]] ([[User talk:Hzh|talk]]) 11:38, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
+:: Vote changed as Richard3120 had found additional reviews that appear to show notability (I can't check the sources, but I'm trusting they are legitimate full reviews). [[User:Hzh|Hzh]] ([[User talk:Hzh|talk]]) 12:42, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
+:::{{re|Hzh}} yes, they are full reviews, not just two lines as part of a quick round-up along with a dozen other albums. Obviously you'll have to take my word for it, but I've added full details of the references, down to the page number, so that anyone who gets their hands on a copy of these music magazines can check the reviews and the quotes taken from them. The ''NME'' review in particular is quite a bit longer than the brief quotes I've extracted from it. [[User:Richard3120|Richard3120]] ([[User talk:Richard3120|talk]]) 14:10, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
+:::: Excellent.  It's always difficult to find sources that are not readily available online, true for a lot of subjects, therefore credit is due for finding them. [[User:Hzh|Hzh]] ([[User talk:Hzh|talk]]) 14:45, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 *'''Keep''': I was surprised that this album didn't chart, given that it contains the group's two biggest hit singles, but the Aloof were a reasonably well known group on the mid-90s dance scene in the UK, and this album was their high point – the two hit singles had a fair bit of airplay on [[BBC Radio 1]]'s specialist music programmes. I was confident that I would find reviews of this album, given that the group wasn't unknown, and I've added reviews from ''Melody Maker'', ''NME'' and ''Q'', plus an interview with them from ''Muzik'' magazine. I think this should be enough to pass [[WP:NALBUM]] as a stub article, and I would think there is probably more out there in the specialist music magazines of the time such as ''Mixmag'' and ''DJ Mag'', which are not available online. In light of the information I have added, I don't know whether {{u|Hzh}} would like to reassess his/her vote. [[User:Richard3120|Richard3120]] ([[User talk:Richard3120|talk]]) 21:25, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 :: Good work finding the reviews.  I would discount the AllMusic one as it is too short (I had already seen it before), as I can't check the others, if they are full reviews, then I'd be happy to change my vote. [[User:Hzh|Hzh]] ([[User talk:Hzh|talk]]) 22:04, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
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 *'''Keep''' - The album contains a UK top 30 single, was critically-acclaimed, has multiple references, and charted within the UK top 200 albums chart as evidenced here - http://www.zobbel.de/cluk/CLUK_A.HTM .   The US Billboard chart extends to a top 200, and albums charting on it, regardless of position, are generally considered notable.  The UK is one of the largest music markets in the world, therefore reaching their chart is notable.[[User:Nqr9|Nqr9]] ([[User talk:Nqr9|talk]]) 00:24, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 :: While there may be argument for keeping, the chart is not one of them. [[WP:NALBUMS]] criteria requires that the chart to be the "country's national music chart", and in UK that is the Official Charts Company which normally lists only the top 100. Argument using Billboard is irrelevant. [[User:Hzh|Hzh]] ([[User talk:Hzh|talk]]) 10:01, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
+{{clear}}
+:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''<!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>