Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Patricia P. Pinegar: Difference between revisions
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' |
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The result was '''no consensus'''. Opinion is split between keeping and redirecting; that does not require any admin intervention and hence can be done elsewhere. [[User:Ritchie333|<b style="color:#7F007F">Ritchie333</b>]] [[User talk:Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(talk)</sup>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ritchie333|<sup style="color:#7F007F">(cont)</sup>]] 15:16, 28 August 2018 (UTC) |
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:{{la|Patricia P. Pinegar}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Patricia P. Pinegar|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2018 |
:{{la|Patricia P. Pinegar}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Patricia P. Pinegar|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2018 August 20#{{anchorencode:Patricia P. Pinegar}}|View log]]</noinclude>{{int:dot-separator}} <span class="plainlinks">[https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Patricia_P._Pinegar Stats]</span>) |
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:({{Find sources AFD|Patricia P. Pinegar}}) |
:({{Find sources AFD|Patricia P. Pinegar}}) |
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Non-notable subject that does not meet [[WP:BASIC]]. Coverage found in searches for independent, reliable sources is limited to short passing mentions and name checks. The primary sources in the article and found in searches do not serve to establish notability. <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Northamerica1000|North America]]<sup>[[User talk:Northamerica1000|<span style="font-size: x-small;">1000</span>]]</sup></span> 22:12, 29 July 2018 (UTC) |
Non-notable subject that does not meet [[WP:BASIC]]. Coverage found in searches for independent, reliable sources is limited to short passing mentions and name checks. The primary sources in the article and found in searches do not serve to establish notability. <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Northamerica1000|North America]]<sup>[[User talk:Northamerica1000|<span style="font-size: x-small;">1000</span>]]</sup></span> 22:12, 29 July 2018 (UTC) |
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:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Utah|list of Utah-related deletion discussions]]. <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Northamerica1000|North America]]<sup>[[User talk:Northamerica1000|<span style="font-size: x-small;">1000</span>]]</sup></span> 22:13, 29 July 2018 (UTC)</small> |
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Utah|list of Utah-related deletion discussions]]. <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Northamerica1000|North America]]<sup>[[User talk:Northamerica1000|<span style="font-size: x-small;">1000</span>]]</sup></span> 22:13, 29 July 2018 (UTC)</small> |
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*'''Keep''' Peterson and guant's work is a clearly indepdent one that shows notability. Add to that this source [https://universe.byu.edu/1999/09/09/general-primary-president-patricia-p-pinegar-how-to-attain-peace-hope-and-direction/]. Also she was the general president of the Primary. This is a level of office that clearly without question always passes notability tests.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 04:19, 30 July 2018 (UTC) |
*'''Keep''' Peterson and guant's work is a clearly indepdent one that shows notability. Add to that this source [https://universe.byu.edu/1999/09/09/general-primary-president-patricia-p-pinegar-how-to-attain-peace-hope-and-direction/]. Also she was the general president of the Primary. This is a level of office that clearly without question always passes notability tests.[[User:Johnpacklambert|John Pack Lambert]] ([[User talk:Johnpacklambert|talk]]) 04:19, 30 July 2018 (UTC) |
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::<s>No opinion on the notability of this person, but</s> the additional source is from [[The Universe (student newspaper)]], a BYU student paper whose About Us page says "The Daily Universe is committed to the mission of BYU and its sponsoring institution, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." [https://universe.byu.edu/about-us/] (signing this later) [[User:Bakazaka|Bakazaka]] ([[User talk:Bakazaka|talk]]) 17:34, 4 August 2018 (UTC) |
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::*I would not describe [https://universe.byu.edu/1999/09/09/general-primary-president-patricia-p-pinegar-how-to-attain-peace-hope-and-direction/ this source] listed in the keep !vote directly under the nomination above as a secondary source; it's clearly primary, and primary sources do not serve to establish notability. Wikipedia notability standards and those who the LDS church considers notable is not necessarily always going to be congruent. <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Northamerica1000|North America]]<sup>[[User talk:Northamerica1000|<span style="font-size: x-small;">1000</span>]]</sup></span> 17:28, 4 August 2018 (UTC) |
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:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Women|list of Women-related deletion discussions]]. [[User:Coolabahapple|Coolabahapple]] ([[User talk:Coolabahapple|talk]]) 07:20, 30 July 2018 (UTC)</small> |
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* [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Article alerts]] One of the wikiprojects is alerting its members to this AFD. I note that there had been no notification of this on this page. <span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Wee Curry Monster|W]][[Special:contributions/Wee Curry Monster|C]][[User talk:Wee Curry Monster|M]]</span><sub>[[Special:EmailUser/Wee Curry Monster|email]]</sub> 11:51, 4 August 2018 (UTC) |
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* As above, [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Latter_Day_Saint_movement#Article_alerts]] also alerts its members to AfDs. I don't see why this is relevant. [[User:Originalmess|<span style="color:#09C"><span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">'''originalmess'''</span></span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Originalmess|<span style="color:#333">how u doin that busta rhyme?</span>]]</sup> 00:18, 5 August 2018 (UTC) |
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::* They should do IMHO. <span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Wee Curry Monster|W]][[Special:contributions/Wee Curry Monster|C]][[User talk:Wee Curry Monster|M]]</span><sub>[[Special:EmailUser/Wee Curry Monster|email]]</sub> 00:22, 5 August 2018 (UTC) |
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<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /> |
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<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Nosebagbear|Nosebagbear]] ([[User talk:Nosebagbear|talk]]) 11:06, 5 August 2018 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line --> |
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*'''Redirect''' to [[Primary (LDS Church)]]. Search finds no significant coverage in multiple, reliable, independent sources. Church sources (''Church News'', ''Ensign'', lds.org, etc) are not independent per [[WP:IIS]] and therefore not usable for establishing notability. Above !vote to keep only added another non-independent LDS source with a double conflict of interest as a student newspaper covering an alumna. Coverage outside the church seems to be of a different person with the same name in a different US state. Suggest redirecting to [[Primary (LDS Church)]], where subject's role in the church is already mentioned. [[User:Bakazaka|Bakazaka]] ([[User talk:Bakazaka|talk]]) 17:32, 8 August 2018 (UTC) |
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<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /> |
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<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Randykitty|Randykitty]] ([[User talk:Randykitty|talk]]) 20:07, 13 August 2018 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line --> |
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*'''Keep'''. Regardless of the current state of this article, the subject has notability because of her position; we already have an article ([[Primary (LDS Church)#Chronology of the general presidency of the Primary]]) and a succession box on the Presidents of the Primary, so if the article were deleted it would simply need to be recreated. Please also note that searches need to be done on variants of her name, not merely the current article title. [[User:Softlavender|Softlavender]] ([[User talk:Softlavender|talk]]) 23:23, 18 August 2018 (UTC) |
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:*'''Comment''' – There is no presumed notability for Mormon subjects and leaders on Wikipedia. No guideline or policy provides presumed notability. <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;">[[User:Northamerica1000|North America]]<sup>[[User talk:Northamerica1000|<span style="font-size: x-small;">1000</span>]]</sup></span> 19:35, 19 August 2018 (UTC) |
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<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|[[Wikipedia:Deletion process#Relisting discussions|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br /> |
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<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Nosebagbear|Nosebagbear]] ([[User talk:Nosebagbear|talk]]) 10:27, 20 August 2018 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div><!-- Please add new comments below this line --> |
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*'''Redirect''' to [[Primary (LDS Church)]], as described above. Everything I saw in a search was published by the LDS or BY university. All are therefore primary or close to primary sources. Fails requirement for independent coverage.[[Special:Contributions/96.127.244.27|96.127.244.27]] ([[User talk:96.127.244.27|talk]]) 19:08, 20 August 2018 (UTC) |
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{{clear}} |
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''<!--Template:Afd bottom--></div> |
Latest revision as of 15:16, 28 August 2018
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Opinion is split between keeping and redirecting; that does not require any admin intervention and hence can be done elsewhere. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:16, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
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- Patricia P. Pinegar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Non-notable subject that does not meet WP:BASIC. Coverage found in searches for independent, reliable sources is limited to short passing mentions and name checks. The primary sources in the article and found in searches do not serve to establish notability. North America1000 22:12, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. North America1000 22:12, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. North America1000 22:12, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Utah-related deletion discussions. North America1000 22:13, 29 July 2018 (UTC)
- Keep Peterson and guant's work is a clearly indepdent one that shows notability. Add to that this source [1]. Also she was the general president of the Primary. This is a level of office that clearly without question always passes notability tests.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:19, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
No opinion on the notability of this person, butthe additional source is from The Universe (student newspaper), a BYU student paper whose About Us page says "The Daily Universe is committed to the mission of BYU and its sponsoring institution, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." [2] (signing this later) Bakazaka (talk) 17:34, 4 August 2018 (UTC)- I would not describe this source listed in the keep !vote directly under the nomination above as a secondary source; it's clearly primary, and primary sources do not serve to establish notability. Wikipedia notability standards and those who the LDS church considers notable is not necessarily always going to be congruent. North America1000 17:28, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 07:20, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
- Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Article alerts One of the wikiprojects is alerting its members to this AFD. I note that there had been no notification of this on this page. WCMemail 11:51, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
- As above, Wikipedia:WikiProject_Latter_Day_Saint_movement#Article_alerts also alerts its members to AfDs. I don't see why this is relevant. originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 00:18, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
- They should do IMHO. WCMemail 00:22, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nosebagbear (talk) 11:06, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nosebagbear (talk) 11:06, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
- Redirect to Primary (LDS Church). Search finds no significant coverage in multiple, reliable, independent sources. Church sources (Church News, Ensign, lds.org, etc) are not independent per WP:IIS and therefore not usable for establishing notability. Above !vote to keep only added another non-independent LDS source with a double conflict of interest as a student newspaper covering an alumna. Coverage outside the church seems to be of a different person with the same name in a different US state. Suggest redirecting to Primary (LDS Church), where subject's role in the church is already mentioned. Bakazaka (talk) 17:32, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 20:07, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Randykitty (talk) 20:07, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
- Keep. Regardless of the current state of this article, the subject has notability because of her position; we already have an article (Primary (LDS Church)#Chronology of the general presidency of the Primary) and a succession box on the Presidents of the Primary, so if the article were deleted it would simply need to be recreated. Please also note that searches need to be done on variants of her name, not merely the current article title. Softlavender (talk) 23:23, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
- Comment – There is no presumed notability for Mormon subjects and leaders on Wikipedia. No guideline or policy provides presumed notability. North America1000 19:35, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nosebagbear (talk) 10:27, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nosebagbear (talk) 10:27, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
- Redirect to Primary (LDS Church), as described above. Everything I saw in a search was published by the LDS or BY university. All are therefore primary or close to primary sources. Fails requirement for independent coverage.96.127.244.27 (talk) 19:08, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.