Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cheese05

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The discussion shifted from keep to redirection or deletion, but ultimately no clear consensus was reached. – Joe (talk) 16:45, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Cheese05

[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!

• How to contribute
• Introduction to deletion process
• Guide to deletion (glossary)
• Help, my article got nominated for deletion!

Cheese05 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

This may be a notable achievement, but the article is sourced almost entirely from the subject's own twitter and youtube postings. None of the sources provide independent, in-depth coverage. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 13:36, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

• Keep. Independent, in-depth coverage can be found at these sources: [1] Eastmain (talk • contribs) 18:02, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Video games-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 18:03, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Trinidad and Tobago-related deletion discussions. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 18:03, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

• Keep. The Engadget article doesn't provide in-depth coverage? It is an interview to be fair, though, there are plenty of other articles on the Internet. wumbolo ^^^ 19:31, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

  It is not independent because it is an interview. In-depth coverage is not sufficient to indicate notability. --Izno (talk) 19:43, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

  This is a feature article. It uses quotes but is very far from a simple, unedited interview. czar 04:48, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

  I agree with your assessment after review. I'm not sure why Wumbolo called it an interview... I'm always amenable to a redirect, in this case to List of Super Mario speedrunning records#Super Mario 64 or similar. --Izno (talk) 17:23, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

• None of the sources in the article indicate notability at this time. --Izno (talk) 19:43, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment. Do you like this source? [2] wumbolo ^^^ 20:13, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

  Not really about Cheese. --Izno (talk) 21:26, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

  How about this or this? The latter mentions Cheese 17 times. wumbolo ^^^ 21:53, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

• Have to agree with Izno here. So far, browsing over things, the article is currently written entirely to first party accounts on Youtube and social media, which is entirely inappropriate for a WP:BLP, and most things presented here are either interviews, and seem to stray away from the subject relatively quickly. There's also...very little to be said, outside of a couple sentences. Leaning towards deletion unless someone else presents something better... Sergecross73 msg me 18:46, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
• Is there any detail that couldn't be covered in sufficient context at List of Super Mario speedrunning records#Super_Mario_64? czar 04:59, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
• Weak keep, with some effort and googling, sources required could be added and changed to fit with the guidelines. QueerFilmNerd^talk 18:37, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
• Delete per nom. Perhaps I'm out of touch with kids (where "kids" is anyone younger than me ie: born after the mid '70s) these days, but a search for sources just seems to show trivial mentions and while his sexuality is sourced to his own Twitter feed, is it really important to mention in this article? He's not exactly Matthew Smith. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 10:44, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

  @Ritchie333: Is this trivial? wumbolo ^^^ 11:05, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

  It's a very specialised source - are there any mentions in national broadsheet newspapers or magazines, that aren't gaming specific? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 11:06, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

  If we excluded gaming sources for WP:BASIC, tons of these articles would be deleted. wumbolo ^^^ 11:12, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

  Maybe we should, then. CHRISSYMAD ❯❯❯¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 13:20, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

• Comment – I agree that the Engadget article might, just barely, qualify as a notability reference. Detractions include the fact that it appears to be partially based on an interview, is more about the Speedrunning profession, with Cheese05 picked out as one exemplar, and is in what might be considered a niche publication. @Eastmain: I find it a bit surprising that you would post a Google search URL as evidence, with no further details. Generally, this discussion makes me wonder if some specialized notability guidelines should be developed to apply to these sorts of gaming professionals. I'm willing to be schooled on this, but it's my impression that "local coverage only" applies not just to geography but to topic matter. With no coverage in general interest publications, some other hurdle has to be overcome to establish notability. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 15:05, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

  That's like saying that an article in Bloomberg News can't make a businessman notable. wumbolo ^^^ 16:19, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

  Yes, indeed. There are all sorts of "routine" articles in the business press that we discount as not contributing to notability. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 16:56, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

  I agree. Routine coverage comes in many forms and should be closely searched for. wumbolo ^^^ 17:44, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Joe (talk) 18:27, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

• Keep – The current article looks awkward, but there are plenty of sources available on Cheese05. He's certainly one of the most prominent speedrunners. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 20:23, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
• Delete and I never thought I'd be able to say this but, per Ritchie. The lack of meaningful, in depth coverage is astounding. CHRISSYMAD ❯❯❯¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 13:20, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
• Comment. There is a book titled Speedrunning: Interviews with the Quickest Gamers (ISBN 9781476670805) which includes a chapter about Cheese05. I don't know if it's independent enough for GNG, since the author interviewed Cheese05. wumbolo ^^^ 12:38, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

  Talk about niche publishers: McFarland & Company. Not quite self-published, I guess, but how they make any money on books with print runs of 600 is a mystery to me. Can this interview contribute to notability? We don't normally consider interviews as notability references. — jmcgnh^{(talk) (contribs)} 18:09, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

  It's not just a plain interview; it also contains biographical information about the subject. wumbolo ^^^ 18:15, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

• Redirect to Super Mario speedrunning records#Super Mario 64. Insufficient depth of coverage. Daask (talk) 20:14, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
• Redirect to something like List of Super Mario speedrunning records#Super_Mario_64. Yes, there are more than one source about him, but all of them basically mention only one significant thing - his speedrun world record. Aside from that, his YT and Twitch stats are unremarkable and not really worth mentioning (same goes for all the fluff/trivia about his podcasts, including what he discussed in his videos or his streaming schedule) so there's clearly nothing much to write about him. Maybe later he'll set more records or perhaps cause some controversy or something similar that will give more reasons for dedicated article, but not now.Omgwtfbbqsomethingrandom (talk) 04:44, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

  @Omgwtfbbqsomethingrandom: There is quite a bit to write about him when you combine the Engadget source, and the book I mention above. wumbolo ^^^ 16:06, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

  I've looked at that Engadget article and from what I've read there really isn't much to write about him. I mean, the article does mention his daily routine and when he starts streaming, but how valuable all this information is? There are 1000's of other streamers who do same exact things every day. Same goes for how many hours he spends on playing the game or the Twitch income (and Twitch income data is already outdated). Same also goes for his sexuality as Ritchie333 pointed out - ok, he identifies himself as a gay person, and that's great, but so what? It's not being mentioned in any way by any other publication, so why mention it at all?

  So once again, he's definitely a notable person to mention but he is notable for only one thing and has nothing else that is worth writing about, this is why it's better to just redirect or merge current info with other articles which already mention him and his achievements. That's just my opinion, of course. Omgwtfbbqsomethingrandom (talk) 20:34, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, KCVelaga (talk) 05:09, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Vanamonde (talk) 16:09, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.