Talk:Domesticated silver fox

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2020 and 14 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MMD18.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 19:41, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Proposed page move

Hello All,

• In 2005, this article was created with the name of "Domesticated silver fox" because it was this melanistic form of the red fox that was the subject of the "farm fox experiment"
• In 2015, the article was moved to "Russian domesticated red fox" (see above), and so "Domesticated silver fox" became a redirect to it. (I assume some politics was played in this renaming, because the silver melanistic colour morph only occurs in North American red foxes, and those that have been imported from North America for fur-trading purposes i.e. Russia and Europe. The editing record shows that the proposer appears to have gained a username purely to achieve this move, then departed Wikipedia.)
• In 2017, the article was moved to "Domesticated red fox" (see above). I have spoken with the move proposer - he was not aware that the redirect "Domesticated silver fox" existed at that time.

I propose that the article be moved back to its original "Domesticated silver fox" to be more WP:PRECISE. I shall wait one week to receive editors views before initiating a formal move request. William Harristalk 10:50, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

Why not only "Silver fox"?. In particular, the first sentence is wrong: The domesticated red fox is a form of the wild red fox (Vulpes vulpes) which has been domesticated to an extent under laboratory conditions. That's wrong. Silver fox is primarily a wild form of the red fox. See German Wikipedia: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silberfuchsfell (silver fox skin). -- Kürschner (talk) 12:30, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

That is also a good idea. English Wikipedia has an article on the Silver fox (animal), which has a large section that links to this article. That article is only 30kb in size, and is nowhere near as well developed as on the German Wikipedia. Let us see what ideas others may have. William Harristalk 22:27, 26 August 2020 (UTC)

As I said in user talk, I think this article should move to Domesticated silver fox to be more WP:PRECISE, get its wording cleaned up, and then we merge the redundant WP:CONTENTFORK material in the other articles into this one, leaving behind only short WP:SUMMARY treatment with a {{Main}} hatnote, in the other relevant articles.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  00:15, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 2 September 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. —usernamekiran (talk) 12:04, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

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Domesticated red fox → Domesticated silver fox – WP:PRECISE - it was the silver fox variant which underwent the domestication experiment. William Harris (talk) 10:20, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 15:29, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

• @William Harris: Why not just move it to Domesticated fox? Is the disambiguation needed? _{15:03, 2 September 2020‎ User:Ahecht}

  Yes, it is needed because of the Fuegian "dog", which was a fox and (though now extinct) actually has a better claim to domestication, strictly defined. Domesticated fox should be a disambiguation page, or at very least we need to disambiguation with a hatnote. Its very plausible that readers will be looking for fox domestication as general topic, not looking for details about this specific silver/red fox domestication experiment.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:48, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

• Comment: According to the article, the species that was tamed is the red fox (Vulpes vulpes), and some of them are red, according to at least one of the linked sources. —BarrelProof (talk) 20:34, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
  • This isn't about fur color, it's about a genetic population (in this case not presently classified as a subspecies, as far as I know, but that could change). You can sometimes get reddish-colored offspring from silverish-colored members of the silver population. It's just an interplay of dominant and recessive genes. It's unfortunate that the populations have been named as if the fur color is immutable. But that still doesn't mean this about domesticated foxes that happened to be red in color; it's about domesticated foxes which happen to be of the population named the "silver fox", a sup-population of the species named the "red fox". The present article title is too broad, a bit like "US senators from the Carolinas" when we have no rationale for not being specific about North and South Carolina.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:54, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
• Support per WP:PRECISE. Domesticated red fox should redirect to Domesticated silver fox unless and until such time as there is other red-fox domestication stuff to cover separately. As noted above, Domestic fox should be a disambiguation page since there is also the Fuegian "dog" and possibly others (or at very least we must disambiguation with something like "Domesticated fox redirects here; for ...").  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  01:54, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Additionally support SMcCandlish’s proposal to make a dab of domestic/domesticated fox. Cavalryman (talk) 23:25, 3 September 2020 (UTC).

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The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

added location : Institute of Cytology and Genetics in Novosibirsk, Siberia

Institute of Cytology and Genetics in Novosibirsk, Siberia Infinitepeace (talk) 06:19, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Rescue Institute from collapse of the Soviet Union?

"The collapse of the Soviet Union resulted in declining funds towards scientific research, complicating Belyayev's and Trut's research continuation. They had difficulties even keeping the foxes alive. Belyayev died in 1985 before he could salvage the institute"

"Salvage the Institute"? What is this even supposed to mean? The Soviet Union didn't collapse for better than half a decade after Belyayev's death. Of course he couldn't salvage it from something that wouldn't even happen for years after his death. Nonmouse (talk) 15:58, 1 July 2023 (UTC)