Talk:DevOps

DevOps is Culture

This article is a joke, right from the very first poorly written paragraph. DevOps is culture, period. Whomever wrote it is totally confused about the difference between Agile and DevOps, particularly when DevOps as a practice can and is widely used in both Agile and Waterfall environments. It should be completely rewritten by someone who knows what they are talking about. Flybd5 (talk) 11:48, 26 September 2019 (UTC)

This article has got worse over the past few months. What has happened? Lots of valuable content and references have been removed. There was some great history content, including Patrick Debois and the DevOps reports that are missing now. Tomgeraghty (talk) 11:43, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

The article has been the target of a lot of link spam with people adding links of dubious quality and often trying to promote blogs and unreliable sources. It would benefit from people who understand the subject rewriting or editing sections. Jmccormac (talk) 12:43, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

I'd love to write up a section on the history and evolution of DevOps, but looking at this page and what's been removed already, I'm sure it would get removed pretty quickly.Tomgeraghty (talk) 12:56, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

As long as the cited sources are reliable and not blogs or promotional, it should be no problem. It is an encyclopedia article rather than a how-to so it should be understandble for people not familiar with the subject. For historical citations, academic sources or journal links tend to work best. Then there are book and subject magazine links. The main things to avoid are promotional links, blogs or self-promotional links.Jmccormac (talk) 13:40, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Agile represents a change in thinking, whereas DevOps actually implements organizational cultural change.[15]

This does not make sense and needs to be reviewed with a close reading of the source. A change in thinking is cultural change.

The article is in IT management speak, and needs to define terms to meet the needs of the general wikipedia audience.

The article is missing the business facilitation aspects of DevOps from which all the technical aspects, such as CICD, stem. For example; managing the four types of work, the 'three ways' of collaboration, and DevOps' basis in manufacturing and team function study. To state that the article is locked or beyond criticism is not rational. Regardless of which elements of this have worked their way into agile methodologies, (of which there are almost countless varieties), I cannot see how a person can understand DevOps without the underlying principles explained.

DevOps as a job title

Even as a software developer, I don't understand what the section wants to explain about DevOps as a job title. It is clearly a topic worth mentioning but I don't see how the article answers the question what such job title represents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:CB05:4AE:F500:1091:75DE:9C49:FBF6 (talk) 07:23, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

I completely agree. I'm looking for jobs in the software development field and see the title 'DevOps' all the time, and after reading this page i am still completely clueless as to what it means. Grimdark (talk) 16:03, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

The section about the job title is in response to the people who say "DevOps is culture, period." (see above) This would be fine if it were 2009 and you hung out at the Ghent DevOps Days. In 2020, the battle has been lost! DevOps is both about tools and culture and is a widespread job title: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=devops For people who want to fight an unwinnable battle, then contact each hiring manager for each current DevOps job posting and correct them.Sp00nfeeder (talk) 05:50, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

Bad prose

"They are well communicated and collaborated internally"

That sentence does not make sense. GeneCallahan (talk) 06:00, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

I updated this sentence in the article based statements in one of the cited publications (Chen 2018) to read: "Improved collaboration and communication both between and within organizational teams...". However, I don't have access to the other reference (Chen 2015), so it's possible I'm missing some of the original intent, but at least it's more intelligible now. SteveChervitzTrutane (talk) 23:10, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Not precise

I leave the article more confused than I was going in. I'm not sure why this is, but I learnt from my friend in the position that it is essentially "SysAdmins who do coding". I think this is a more precise definition than what the lead sentence tries to express.

The article seems to be full of corporate-speak and doesn't fulfill the purpose of enlightening the reader about what DevOps actually is, instead of encouraging people to adopt the practice. Mount2010 (talk) 17:34, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

I agree, this article is very confusing, and is written more like a academic research paper (lots of name drops of researchers). I came here as an engineer from a non-software field. I don't know what DevSecOps is other than "it has something to do with software development" and "managers think it is important". At least with the amount of time I was prepared to invest reading the article, I still don't know what DevSecOps is other than it has something to do with software development and people think it is important. Actually I have a new takeaway, which is that industry and the people who use this word don't agree what it means either. Needs to be tightened with more effective summary sections. 149.32.192.35 (talk) 16:52, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Wholesale removal of large sections

@Barbinary: Your edit summary didn't make clear why you removed several sections entirely earlier today.[1]

Was this intentional? If it was, what was the rationale for removing them? Was it purely removing material from unreliable sources?

This is what the table of contents used to look like and what it looks like after the edit:

Old and new tables of contents

Old: 1 Definition 2 History 3 Toolchains 4 Relationship to other approaches 4.1 Agile 4.2 ArchOps 4.3 TestOps 4.4 Continuous delivery 4.5 DataOps 4.6 Site-reliability engineering 4.7 Systems administration 4.8 WinOps 4.9 Toyota production system, lean thinking, kaizen 4.10 DevSecOps, Shifting Security Left 5 Goals 6 Criticism 7 Cultural change 7.1 DevOps as a job title 7.2 Building a DevOps culture 8 Deployment 8.1 Architecturally significant requirements 8.2 Microservices 8.3 DevOps automation 9 Adoption 9.1 DevOps practices and adoption 10 See also 11 Notes 12 References 13 Further reading New: 1 Definitions and History 2 DevOps toolchain 3 Relationship to other approaches 3.1 Agile 3.2 Continuous delivery 3.3 DataOps 3.4 Site reliability engineering 3.5 Systems administration 4 Goals 4.1 Views on the benefits claimed for DevOps 5 Cultural change 5.1 DevOps as a job title 5.2 Building a DevOps culture 6 Deployment 7 DevOps and architecture 8 Scope of adoption 9 DevOps Transformation 10 See also 11 References 12 Further reading

davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 🎄 21:45, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

this looks more like an accident than a real change. --ThurnerRupert (talk) 12:54, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

DevSecOps should be split out

== Splitting proposal ==

I propose that the section about DevSecOps be split into a separate page called [[DevSecOps]]. The content of the section deserves its own section, similar to other topics like Agile. This section can be enlarged to make its own page. ~~~~

DevSecOps is a separate practice from DevOps and deserves its own page. 7YR43L (talk) 23:47, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Deming did not create PDCA

I'm not a normal editor so I don't know how this is supposed to work. I tried to edit this page recently to remove a reference to Deming that implies that PDCA is his. But the Wikipedia article on PDCA states Deming did not agree with PDCA. He championed a different system, PDSA, that he didn't even create, he credited Shewhart with it.

Wikipedia is contradicting itself and passing off a false implication as truth. But I don't care enough to figure out how to convince an editor not to revert my edit. Do what you will...Peterwwillis (talk) 01:40, 12 May 2024 (UTC)