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"grounded emitter, ..."

I saw the term grounded emitter used a few times. In literature I've read, the term is common emitter, common base, common collector and likewise with source, gate & drain for FETs. The term grounded is not used in some countries; it is called earthed - ground is called earth. I suggest that the term grounded should be changed to common, which is based, I believe, on network theory. Thank you. acmefixer@yahoo.com 2022-08-09. 2600:1700:CD40:C510:C569:E860:4740:249A (talk) 09:34, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A grounded emitter circuit is a common emitter circuit, but not all common emitter circuits are grounded emitter circuits. The terms are used correctly in the article. Constant314 (talk) 11:55, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Patent numbers?

In the article, it says:

The first bipolar junction transistors were invented by Bell Labs' William Shockley, who applied for patent (2,569,347) on June 26, 1948.

However, there seems to be an earlier patent (US2524033) that describes what appears to be a similar invention, with the patent going to John Bardeen. It was applied for four months before US2569347 and was also granted first (October 3, 1950 versus September 25, 1951). So is this article pointing to the correct patent and order of events? I am fairly experienced with electronics and semiconductors, but patent language and diagrams are so difficult to read that I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what was claimed in each, and why John Bardeen applied for a patent 4 months before Shockley did for what appears to be a very similar device and design. For example, Figure 7 in Bardeen's patent appears to show a PNP stack, and he mentions that his device shows current gain, which is exactly what a transistor does.

Would appreciate some feedback or input from someone more experienced than I with reading patents and semiconductor physics (which I have only a passing understanding of). MrAureliusR_Talk! 01:10, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Both were filed by "Bell Telephone Laboratories Inc"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_transistor

• Sbmeirow • Talk • 03:20, 21 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Was William Shockley actually one of the threesome who invented the point contact transistor?

In the article, it says, "The first working device was a point-contact transistor invented in 1947 by physicists John Bardeen, Walter Brattain, and William Shockley". However, I found a different article on the website Electronic Design, authored by Lou Frenzel, that gives contradictory information. Link: https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/analog/article/21808701/who-really-did-invent-the-transistor In the article, it says that William Shockley was not included in the first point contact transistor patent. Not sure what the correct action would be, though. Attihoch (talk) 17:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Collector should be at top of PNP symbol

The PNP symbol under "Electronic symbol" should be flipped vertically, to put the collector at the top. That's the way it's usually shown in schematics. BMJ-pdx (talk) 13:23, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see it both ways. Constant314 (talk) 19:23, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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+== "grounded emitter, ..." ==
-==Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment==
-[[File:Sciences humaines.svg|40px]] This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2020-01-22">22 January 2020</span> and <span class="mw-formatted-date" title="2020-05-14">14 May 2020</span>. Further details are available [[Wikipedia:Wiki_Ed/MSU_Denver/Computer_Engineering_-_Introduction_and_Ethics_(Spring_2020)|on the course page]].  Peer reviewers: [[User:Wintersfire|Wintersfire]].
+I saw the term grounded emitter used a few times.  In literature I've read, the term is common emitter, common base, common collector and likewise with source, gate & drain for FETs.  The term grounded is not used in some countries; it is called earthed - ground is called earth.  I suggest that the term grounded should be changed to common, which is based, I believe, on network theory.
+Thank you.  acmefixer@yahoo.com 2022-08-09. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1700:CD40:C510:C569:E860:4740:249A|2600:1700:CD40:C510:C569:E860:4740:249A]] ([[User talk:2600:1700:CD40:C510:C569:E860:4740:249A|talk]]) 09:34, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
+:A grounded emitter circuit is a common emitter circuit, but not all common emitter circuits are grounded emitter circuits.  The terms are used correctly in the article. [[User:Constant314|Constant<b style="color: #4400bb;">''314''</b>]] ([[User talk:Constant314|talk]]) 11:55, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
+== Patent numbers? ==
-{{small|Above undated message substituted from [[Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment]] by [[User:PrimeBOT|PrimeBOT]] ([[User talk:PrimeBOT|talk]]) 11:39, 17 January 2022 (UTC)}}
-==Germans made the first working Transistor ==
-The world's first working device was built in Paris by German scientists [[Herbert Mataré]] and [[Heinrich Welker]] , who preceded the Bell Labs, Moreover their prototype was more advanced than the prototype of Bell Labs. See:  https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-history/silicon-revolution/how-europe-missed-the-transistor
-Just because the War Crimes of Germans , it was impossible to receive Global attention for Germans after the war.--[[User:Regtraht|Regtraht]] ([[User talk:Regtraht|talk]]) 18:01, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
+In the article, it says:
+<code>The first bipolar junction transistors were invented by Bell Labs' William Shockley, who applied for patent (2,569,347) on June 26, 1948.</code>
-"he French device “turns out...to be superior to its American counterpart,” read a more measured but still favorable account in Toute la Radio, a technical journal [see drawing and photo]. “The latter has a limited lifetime and appears to be fairly unstable, whereas the existing transistrons do not show any sign of fatigue.”
+However, there seems to be an earlier patent ([https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/f8/53/1c/dc0c7b5252a663/US2524033.pdf US2524033]) that describes what appears to be a similar invention, with the patent going to John Bardeen. It was applied for four months before [https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/4c/d7/98/e30fdc30f7dc7d/US2569347.pdf US2569347] and was also granted first (October 3, 1950 versus September 25, 1951). So is this article pointing to the correct patent and order of events? I am fairly experienced with electronics and semiconductors, but patent language and diagrams are so difficult to read that I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what was claimed in each, and why John Bardeen applied for a patent 4 months before Shockley did for what appears to be a very similar device and design. For example, Figure 7 in Bardeen's patent appears to show a PNP stack, and he mentions that his device shows current gain, which is exactly what a transistor does.
-According to Mataré, this superiority could be attributed to the care they employed in fabricating their devices. While observing the process with microscopes, the women working on the small assembly line would measure current-voltage curves for both metal points with oscilloscopes and fix the points rigidly on the germanium with drops of epoxy after the curves matched the desired characteristics. When Brattain and Shockley visited the Paris group in 1950, Mataré showed them telephone amplifiers made with his transistrons—which allowed him to place a call all the way to Algiers. “That’s quite something,” admitted Shockley a bit guardedly, Mataré recalls half a century later."  <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Regtraht|Regtraht]] ([[User talk:Regtraht#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Regtraht|contribs]]) 19:28, 16 November 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
+Would appreciate some feedback or input from someone more experienced than I with reading patents and semiconductor physics (which I have only a passing understanding of). <span style="text-shadow:2px 2px 4px red;">[[User:MrAureliusR|<span style="color:red"> '''<big>M</big>r<big>A</big>urelius<big>R</big>'''</span>]]</span><span style="text-shadow:3px 3px 4px blue;"><small>[[User_talk:MrAureliusR|<sub>Talk!</sub>]]</small></span> 01:10, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
-:The Spectrum article states, "Mataré reckons he first recognized this effect in early 1948 ('''perhaps a month or two after Bardeen and Brattain’s breakthrough at Bell Labs''')." (empahsis added)  Near simultaneous invention is not uncommon but this seems to clearly establish that the Paris invention was second.  [[User:Tom94022|Tom94022]] ([[User talk:Tom94022|talk]]) 19:50, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
+:Both were filed by "Bell Telephone Laboratories Inc"
+:* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_transistor
-'''Your reference article also says the following ...'''
+:* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bardeen#Invention_of_the_transistor
-''"On a hunch, he asked Welker to fashion larger germanium samples, from which they could cut slivers of higher purity. Using this higher-grade material, '''Mataré finally got consistent amplification in June 1948, six months after Bardeen and Brattain.''' Encouraged by this success, they phoned PTT Secretary Eugène Thomas and invited him over for a demonstration. But Thomas was apparently too busy—or perhaps not interested enough—to come by."''
+:* https://patents.google.com/patent/US2524033A/en?oq=US2524033
+:* https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/f8/53/1c/dc0c7b5252a663/US2524033.pdf
+:* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley#Development_of_the_transistor
-Finally, Matare was able to finally get transistor amplification to work on his "Transitron" device (June 1948) and he had applied for a patent on August 13th 1948, well after Bell Labs transistor's discovery and announcement.
+:* https://patents.google.com/patent/US2569347A/en?oq=US2569347
-[[User:Historianbuff|Historianbuff]] ([[User talk:Historianbuff|talk]]) 22:40, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
+:* https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/4c/d7/98/e30fdc30f7dc7d/US2569347.pdf
+:• [[User:Sbmeirow|<span style="color:#8D38C9;">Sbmeirow</span>]] • [[User talk:Sbmeirow|<span style="color:#8D38C9;White;">Talk</span>]] • 03:20, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
-==Symbology==
-If it worth mention the old symbology. https://mixedsignal.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/the-transistor-symbol/ --[[User:Kitchen Knife|Kitchen Knife]] ([[User talk:Kitchen Knife|talk]]) 22:58, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
-:There were a number of early symbols for transistors. For example, IBM used its own symbols for bipolar transistors from the 1950s through the 1990s. [[User:Jc3s5h|Jc3s5h]] ([[User talk:Jc3s5h|talk]]) 23:14, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
-::Doesn't surprise me. https:/upwiki/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/IBM_608_Logic_Gates.jpg/440px-IBM_608_Logic_Gates.jpg --[[User:Kitchen Knife|Kitchen Knife]] ([[User talk:Kitchen Knife|talk]]) 00:39, 6 August 2020 (UTC)
-== MOSFET Invention, who invented it and it's importance ==
+== Was William Shockley actually one of the threesome who invented the point contact transistor? ==
+In the article, it says, "The first working device was a [[point-contact transistor]] invented in 1947 by physicists [[John Bardeen]], [[Walter Brattain]], and [[William Shockley]]". However, I found a different article on the website Electronic Design, authored by Lou Frenzel, that gives contradictory information. Link: https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/analog/article/21808701/who-really-did-invent-the-transistor In the article, it says that William Shockley was '''not''' included in the first point contact transistor patent. Not sure what the correct action would be, though. [[User:Attihoch|Attihoch]] ([[User talk:Attihoch|talk]]) 17:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
-I am currently reading To the Digital Age: Research Labs, Start-up Companies, and the Rise of MOS Technology by Ross Knox Bassett. Bassett is professional historian of science, so his work is as reliable as it gets. I have huge problems with the way this article and other present history of MOS transistor. First of all as Bassett show there was very little new in Attalah and Kahng invention, as Bassett puts it:
+== Collector should be at top of PNP symbol ==
-"Atalla appears to
-have conceived it, but it was an invention in a different sense than the transistors of Bardeen and Brattain and Shockley. The invention of both the pointcontact transistor and the junction transistor involved novel effects. The principles that Atalla’s device used were well known; veterans in the field would
-have recognized them as ones that had been tried without success by Bardeen,
-Brattain, and Shockley. Atalla recycled these principles using the advanced
-fabrication techniques that Bell Labs had developed to make diffused bipolar
-junction transistors. In some sense Atalla’s biggest breakthrough was an intellectual one, thinking that such a device was worth making at all"(page 24).
-Attalah and Kahng doe not even give this device a name, again from Bassett:
+The PNP symbol under "Electronic symbol" should be flipped vertically, to put the collector at the top.  That's the way it's usually shown in schematics.  [[User:BMJ-pdx|BMJ-pdx]] ([[User talk:BMJ-pdx|talk]]) 13:23, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
-"Atalla and Kahng’s writings provide evidence that even they had ambivalence about what they had done. A name is obviously one of the first steps in the
-serious consideration of any kind of invention, and Atalla and Kahng’s failure to
-name their device implies that they saw it as stillborn. They did not even identify
-their device as a transistor, suggesting a reluctance to even put their work into
-the same family line as the work of Bardeen, Brattain, and Shockley.
-Atalla and Kahng’s paper at the 1960 SSDRC did not establish their device as
-a promising subject for research or even as something recognized by the semiconductor community at large. The conference chairman made no mention of
-Atalla and Kahng’s work in his brief report on the technical highlights of
-the conference, although he did mention Bell’s epitaxial transistor. No further
-work on a device like Atalla and Kahng’s was presented at either the SSDRC or
-the Electron Device Conference over the next two years. Two articles reviewing
-the state of the semiconductor field in 1962 made no mention of Atalla and
-Kahng’s device. Their work seemed to be a dead end".
+:I see it both ways. [[User:Constant314|<b style="color: #4400bb;">''Constant314''</b>]] ([[User talk:Constant314|talk]]) 19:23, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
-The reason MOS transistor even received attention was due two factors:first passivation of silicon surfaces by silicon dioxide gave hope the problems of semiconductor surfaces could be resolved, and second invention of integrated circuit change the way transistor are judged, making MOS simplicity attractive to some(page 13).
-It will take many years and many people working on it to make MOS practical. Again Basset write that, for example in IBM even in 1967 the future of MOS technology was far from clear(page 106). Contribution from people like Wanlass was just as important as Atalla and Kahng work. [[User:DMKR2005|DMKR2005]] ([[User talk:DMKR2005|talk]]) 21:33, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
-:The fact that Attalah and Kahng did not name the invention is not relevant.  Nor is the fact that they did not recognize its significance.  Conceiving and publishing is notable.  Their contribution can be in the article.  As to whether they should be anointed as the inventors, it should be left to reliable sources.  Right now, it looks like the reliable sources say that they are the inventors.  No need to start an edit war over this.  [[User:Constant314|Constant<b style="color: #1100cc;">''314''</b>]] ([[User talk:Constant314|talk]]) 22:32, 13 February 2021 (UTC)