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Military history: British / European / French / Spanish / Napoleonic era

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1808 confusion

Some clarification of the narrative is needed. Junot's (presumably) French army crosses Spain and occupies Lisbon, then becomes a "Portuguese Legion" and withdraws to Germany. But later, the British pick up Spanish troops from Germany - how did they get there? Meanwhile the Spanish revolt against the French occupation of Madrid - but this is the first mention of Madrid, or any of Spain, being occupied by the French. Cyclopaedic (talk) 13:57, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Casualties

Spanish fatal casualties between 1809-1813 accounted for 586,000 people, p.8 https://previa.uclm.es/ab/humanidades/profesores/descarga/manuel_ortiz/crisisregimen.pdf

Portuguese killed or missing, 250.000 t 500,000 between 1807-1814 p.12 https://books.google.es/books?id=8yqPBAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=es#v=onepage&q&f=false

--Bentaguayre (talk) 18:44, 2 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to Spanish War of Independence

Peninsular war is systemic bias and Anglo-centrism. --Montecarmelo0 (talk) 15:08, 5 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Utter rubbish - follow the Reliable Sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.51.247 (talk) 14:35, 5 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Peninsular War honestly sounds pretty objective to me, as well as being the common name in English. What other name could we use? METRANGOLO1 (talk) 12:17, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As is covered in the lead, they are two seperate, albeit overlapping, wars, the peninsular war covers portugal, and france as well. No other name is required for this articles content. Erik Sergeant (talk) 13:39, 24 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Numerous redirects

"Napoleon's army in 1808" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Napoleon's army in 1808 has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8 § Napoleon's army in 1808 until a consensus is reached. Veverve (talk) 08:05, 8 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Armée du portugal" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"Armée d'Andalousie" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"Armée d'Arragon" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"Armée de Catalogne" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"Army of Aragon (France)" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"Army of Andalusia (France)" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"Army of Portugal (France)" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"Army of Spain (France)" listed at Redirects for discussion

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Spanish War of Independence

This is listed as an alternate name right now, but the intro says that the Peninsular War is "thought to overlap with the Spanish War of Independence." These sound like two different situations. Can someone clarify? Jtbwikiman (talk) 23:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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+{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|vital=yes|1=
-{{WikiProjectBannerShell|1=
-{{WikiProject Military history|class=C|b1=no|b2=yes|b3=yes|b4=yes|b5=yes|British-task-force=yes
+{{WikiProject Military history|class=B|b1=yes|b2=yes|b3=yes|b4=yes|b5=yes|British-task-force=yes|French-task-force=yes|Spanish-task-force=yes|Napoleonic-task-force=yes}}
+{{WikiProject Spain|importance=top}}
-|French-task-force=yes
+{{WikiProject Portugal|importance=top}}
-|Spanish-task-force=yes
+{{WikiProject France|importance=Mid}}
-|Napoleonic-task-force=yes
+{{WikiProject United Kingdom|importance=Mid}}
-}}
-{{WikiProject Spain|class=C|importance=top}}
-{{WikiProject Portugal|class=C|importance=top}}
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-{{WikiProject United Kingdom|class=C|importance=mid}}
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-== Someone has to change the casualties section ==
-As it is now, it looks like only 25,000 spaniards were killed
-But if we count the Spanish regulars rather than just "guerrillas", it goes in the hundreds thousands
-When the total casualties of one side aren't known, there should be something to point it out, rather than just displaying known figures and letting it as it is
-Right now it looks like the Allies only lost a few dozens thousands killed, while in reality they definitly had more than the French in total  <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/86.241.174.178|86.241.174.178]] ([[User talk:86.241.174.178#top|talk]]) 01:25, 31 March 2018 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
-== Clarify "Allied" in result ==
-The infobox result says "Allied victory" but not which side is "Allied". The French side lists more Belligerents although they are a sublist under French Empire. The only "allied" in the opening paragraph is in "Napoleon's empire (as well as the allied powers of the Spanish Empire)". [[World War I]] and [[World War II]] have an "Allied Powers" heading in the infobox. I don't know whether the same is suitable here but something should be done. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:39, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
-::In reliable sources the allies are on the side of the British. I have never seen the French forces in Spain referred to as "Allied" in Reliable English language sources.  AFAICT The reason for not using Coalition is that not all allies were always part of the numbered Coalitions -- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 20:13, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
-:::"Coalition victory" wouldn't currently be helpful because the infobox doesn't use that term to describe any of the belligerents. My point is that whatever the sides are called, you should be able to tell from the infobox which side won without having to read the article or know in advance what the sides are called. If "Allies" is the common name for the Spanish-British side then use that as heading for that side of the belligerents. If the name isn't common enough for that then don't use "Allied victory" as the only description of the result but for example say "Spanish-British victory". [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 21:27, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
-::::What no Portugal? -- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 00:20, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
-::::One of the problems with Wikipedia is that people tend to "me too" trivial facts into campaign and battle boxes. If one cook from a nation was involved in a war there will be someone who adds that nation as a combatant in the battle box. See for example the article [https://www.britannica.com/event/Peninsular-War Peninsular War] by Britanica.com that states "part of the Napoleonic Wars fought in the Iberian Peninsula, where the French were opposed by British, Spanish, and Portuguese forces." No mention there of all the other countries that were subjugated by France and that might (or might not have contributed a few soldiers to the war). -- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 00:30, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
-{{od}}
-@[[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] I have changed it to "French defeat", and so far no one has reverted. Does that solve the problem? -- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 12:56, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
-:Yes. Thanks. [[User:PrimeHunter|PrimeHunter]] ([[User talk:PrimeHunter|talk]]) 12:57, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
 == 1808 confusion ==
@@ Line 63: / Line 40: @@
 :As is covered in the lead, they are two seperate, albeit overlapping, wars, the peninsular war covers portugal, and france as well. No other name is required for this articles content. [[User:Erik Sergeant|Erik Sergeant]] ([[User talk:Erik Sergeant|talk]]) 13:39, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
+== Numerous redirects ==
+=== "[[:Napoleon's army in 1808]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Napoleon%27s_army_in_1808&redirect=no Napoleon's army in 1808]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8#Napoleon's army in 1808}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 08:05, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
+=== "[[:Armée du portugal]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Arm%C3%A9e_du_portugal&redirect=no Armée du portugal]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8#Armée du portugal}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 08:09, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
+=== "[[:Armée d'Andalousie]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Arm%C3%A9e_d%27Andalousie&redirect=no Armée d'Andalousie]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8#Armée d'Andalousie}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 08:09, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
+=== "[[:Armée d'Arragon]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Arm%C3%A9e_d%27Arragon&redirect=no Armée d'Arragon]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8#Armée d'Arragon}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 08:09, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
+=== "[[:Armée de Catalogne]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Arm%C3%A9e_de_Catalogne&redirect=no Armée de Catalogne]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8#Armée de Catalogne}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 08:09, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
+=== "[[:Armée d'Espagne]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Arm%C3%A9e_d%27Espagne&redirect=no Armée d'Espagne]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8#Armée d'Espagne}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 08:09, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
+=== "[[:Army of Aragon]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Army_of_Aragon&redirect=no Army of Aragon]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8#Army of Aragon}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 08:15, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
+=== "[[:Army of Catalonia (France)]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Army_of_Catalonia_(France)&redirect=no Army of Catalonia (France)]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8#Army of Catalonia (France)}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 08:16, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
+=== "[[:Army of Aragon (France)]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Army_of_Aragon_(France)&redirect=no Army of Aragon (France)]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8#Army of Aragon (France)}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 08:16, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
+=== "[[:Army of Arragon (France)]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Army_of_Arragon_(France)&redirect=no Army of Arragon (France)]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8#Army of Arragon (France)}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 08:16, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
+=== "[[:Army of Andalusia (France)]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Army_of_Andalusia_(France)&redirect=no Army of Andalusia (France)]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8#Army of Andalusia (France)}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 08:16, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
+=== "[[:Army of Portugal (France)]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Army_of_Portugal_(France)&redirect=no Army of Portugal (France)]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8#Army of Portugal (France)}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 08:16, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
+=== "[[:Army of Spain (France)]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ===
+[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
+The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Army_of_Spain_(France)&redirect=no Army of Spain (France)]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 8#Army of Spain (France)}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> [[User:Veverve|Veverve]] ([[User talk:Veverve|talk]]) 08:17, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
+== Spanish War of Independence ==
+This is listed as an alternate name right now, but the intro says that the Peninsular War is "thought to overlap with the Spanish War of Independence." These sound like two different situations. Can someone clarify? [[User:Jtbwikiman|Jtbwikiman]] ([[User talk:Jtbwikiman|talk]]) 23:12, 10 July 2024 (UTC)