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{{Top 25 Report|Jul 9 2023 (20th)}}
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== Some tweaking of sections to cut down on point-of-view pushing ==
== Barbenheimer Edit ==
Compared to other wikipedia entries about movies, some folks are giving Barbie a hardtime with convoluted passive-aggressive framing. These are mostly written in a more objective neutral fashion than this. Following the form & ettiquette of those other more cogent examples. Letting the NYT review summarize the overall critical reception clearly stacks the deck suggesting a mixed reception that isn't true. Muddling and burying as a form of synthesizing. Moving the NYT review where it is appropriate & makes sense.See https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Barbie_(film)&diff=prev&oldid=1215012885 Other changes and trims to follow. [[Special:Contributions/2601:280:CB00:903C:7580:40A2:4539:C4B6|2601:280:CB00:903C:7580:40A2:4539:C4B6]] ([[User talk:2601:280:CB00:903C:7580:40A2:4539:C4B6|talk]]) 16:32, 22 March 2024 (UTC)


== "Barbillion" ==
This message also appears on the talk page for [[Oppenheimer (film)|Oppenheimer]]


Is this noteworthy in a Wikipedia article? A made-up word by Warner Bros marketing? Seems rather silly to include a nonsense word. [[User:Feudonym|Feudonym]] ([[User talk:Feudonym|talk]]) 10:08, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
A section in the marketing/release section should be added for the film's viral "Barbenheimer" phenomenon. At one time it was just silly memes, but it has now turned in to a legitimate talking point about the film's release, with Barbie director Greta Gerwig and star Margot Robbie both commenting and promoting the trend, as well as actor Tom Cruise. It is a part of the film's release undoubtedly, there is no way around it. I will post my now-deleted section below, please check my references and sources for authenticity. [[User:BakedintheHole|BakedintheHole]] ([[User talk:BakedintheHole|talk]]) 14:22, 1 July 2023 (UTC)


== Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2024 ==
:=== "Barbenheimer" ===
:''Barbie'' is set to be released theatrically on July 21, 2023, the same day as ''[[Oppenheimer (film)|Oppenheimer]]'',<ref>[https://www.oppenheimermovie.com/ "Oppenheimer - Official Site"]. ''Oppenheimer.com''. Accessed July 1, 2023.</ref> the [[biographical film|biographical]] [[thriller film]] about [[J. Robert Oppenheimer]] directed by [[Christopher Nolan]]. Due to the difference in tone and genre between the two films, many [[social media]] users across platforms such as [[Instagram]] and [[TikTok]] have taken to making [[Meme|memes]] and [[irony|ironic posts]] about how the two films represent different audiences,<ref>Frank, Jason. "Barbenheimer Memes Are Blowing Up". ''Vulture''. Published June 29, 2023. Accessed July 1, 2023.</ref> or how the two films should be viewed as a [[double feature]].<ref>Ankers-Range, Adele. [https://www.ign.com/articles/internet-embraces-barbenheimer-memes-mashups-more "The Internet Embraces 'Barbenheimer' With Memes, Mashups, and More - IGN"]. ''IGN''. Published June 30, 2023. Accessed July 1, 2023.</ref> The popularity of the trend comparing the two films led to the ''[[The New York Times|New York Times]]'' dubbing the phenomenon "Barbenheimer".<ref>Moses, Claire. [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/28/movies/barbie-oppenheimer-release-day.html "Mark Your Calendars: ‘Barbenheimer’ Is Coming".] ''The New York Times''. Published June 28, 2023. Accessed July 1, 2023.</ref> Gerwig and Robbie have both promoted the connection, posting a photo of themselves attending ''Oppenheimer'' on the film's official [[Twitter]] account on June 30, 2023.<ref>[https://twitter.com/barbiethemovie/status/1674631283543244801 Post by @barbiethemovie on Twitter]. Published June 30, 2023. Accessed July 1, 2023.</ref> Actor [[Tom Cruise]] also encouraged the [[cross-promotion]],<ref>Simpson, Michael Lee. [https://people.com/tom-cruise-is-seeing-oppenheimer-barbie-double-feature-praises-summer-movies-7554717 "Tom Cruise Is Doing an 'Oppenheimer' and 'Barbie' Double Feature Too: 'Doesn't Get More Explosive'"]. ''People''. Published June 28, 2023. Accessed July 1, 2023.</ref> tweeting that he "love[s] a double feature, and it doesn't get more explosive (or more pink) than one with ''Oppenheimer'' and ''Barbie''".<ref>[https://twitter.com/TomCruise/status/1674062557517168643 Post by @TomCruise on Twitter]. Published June 28, 2023. Accessed July 1, 2023.</ref> [[User:BakedintheHole|BakedintheHole]] ([[User talk:BakedintheHole|talk]]) 14:22, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

*'''Oppose'''. Trivial information about a brief social media flurry which will inevitably be forgotten about in a couple of weeks' time. [[User:Barry Wom|Barry Wom]] ([[User talk:Barry Wom|talk]]) 09:01, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
*:I would disagree, I think it has made a substantial impact on the cross-promotion of each film and has been embraced by the filmmakers, too. [[User:BakedintheHole|BakedintheHole]] ([[User talk:BakedintheHole|talk]]) 14:41, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
*::It's been added briefly in the marketing section (where it should be, ''not'' under its own section). Thank you. <span style="solid;background:#a3b18a; border-radius: 4px; -moz-border-radius: 4px; font-family: Papyrus">'''[[User:MikeAllen|<span style="color: #606c38">Mike</span>]]&nbsp;[[User talk:MikeAllen|<span style="color:#606c38">Allen</span>]]'''</span> 15:52, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
*:::I have added it back to the marketing section (without its own section), as “[[Barbenheimer]]” is now its own Wikipedia article. Users continue trying to delete the section on both the Oppenheimer and Barbie pages, I am adding them back to both and leaving a message warning against an edit war. [[User:BakedintheHole|BakedintheHole]] ([[User talk:BakedintheHole|talk]]) 12:26, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
*I think there should be a short blurb here but then the new article deleted, that's quite excessive. [[User:Reywas92|Reywas92]]<sup>[[User talk:Reywas92|Talk]]</sup> 13:39, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Nomination of [[:Barbenheimer]] for deletion ==
<div class="afd-notice">
<div class="floatleft" style="margin-bottom:0">[[File:Ambox warning orange.svg|48px|alt=|link=]]</div>A discussion is taking place as to whether the article [[:Barbenheimer]] is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to [[Wikipedia:List of policies and guidelines|Wikipedia's policies and guidelines]] or whether it should be [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deleted]].

The article will be discussed at '''[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barbenheimer]]''' until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.
<!-- Template:Afd notice --></div> [[User:InfiniteNexus|InfiniteNexus]] ([[User talk:InfiniteNexus|talk]]) 11:20, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

== The Philippines has not banned the film ==

I've checked the latest news about the potential ban of ''Barbie'' in the Philippines, and I've seen their MTRCB body approve the movie for theatrical release. [https://www.cnnphilippines.com/news/2023/7/11/MTRCB-allows-Barbie-screening-in-PH.html| Here's the news article proving it.] (It turns out the link stopped working as soon as I added it in this talk section. Oh well...{{efn|Side note: it only works if you search for this specific search term: "Barbie allowed to screen in the Philippines".}})

One thing I don't know is how to add it in this Wikipedia article (mainly because I'm doing this in a mobile browser.) Could someone do this for me? Thanks in advance! <code>green@grenier ~$ sign --now; [[User talk:GreenGrenier|sudo systemctl enable wptalk]]</code> 12:07, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

== Error in Plot Summary ==

>Sasha inspires a depressed Barbie by acknowledging the inherent contradictions of American femininity.

This is incorrect. Gloria (the mother) gives this speech. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/184.83.70.31|184.83.70.31]] ([[User talk:184.83.70.31#top|talk]]) 01:30, 21 July 2023 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

{{noteslist}}

== Edit request ==

Per IP above, there is an error in the plot summary. Please change "Sasha inspires a depressed Barbie..." to "Gloria inspires a depressed Barbie...". Many thanks [[Special:Contributions/86.133.52.213|86.133.52.213]] ([[User talk:86.133.52.213|talk]]) 21:33, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

:I'd also add that a small (but noteworthy) part of the ending has been missed in the Plot Summary.  Just before Stereotypical Barbie decides to go into the real world, the Barbies agree to stop excluding the Kens from the matriarchy of Barbieland. See it mentioned here https://www.vulture.com/article/barbie-ending-explained-transcending-corporate-ip.html
:The movies jokes that it is tokenistic, but I think it is still worth mentioning because it shows that the Barbieland inhabitants had some character development too (not just Stereotypical Barbie and Beach Ken).
:It could be mentioned like this?
:"''Ken laments that he has no identity or purpose without Barbie, to which Barbie encourages him to find an autonomous identity <u>and inspires the other Barbies to include the Kens in their society</u>.''" [[User:Gfoxwood|Gfoxwood]] ([[User talk:Gfoxwood|talk]]) 21:26, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
::I do not believe that ('inspires the other Barbies to include the Kens in their society') would be an accurate representation of what takes place in the film. The current description ('The Barbies also realize the error of their previous societal system, and decide to make some changes in Barbieland, including equalized treatment for the Kens and all outcast dolls.') seems inaccurate, too.
::The script does not seem available online, but, from memory, this takes place:
::Barbies vote to revert the Constitution to pre-Kendom days. Faced with the fact that their coup failed, a Ken (Kingsley Ben-Adir) asks if they could have a single representative in the Supreme Court. In response, President Barbie (Issa Rae) laughs and counter-offers with a minor position in the administration, which the Kens gleefully accept. The Narrator then says, 'Well, the Kens have to start somewhere. And one day the Kens will have as much power and influence in Barbieland as women have in the real world.' (as quoted here: https://filmcolossus.com/movie-explanations/barbie-2023).
::Something along the lines of the below would be more accurate:
::'Once President Barbie is back in power, she declares that some changes should be made. The Kens get a lower circuit court judge, a first step to representation.' [[User:TheFinalKitty|TheFinalKitty]] ([[User talk:TheFinalKitty|talk]]) 13:28, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
::What you mean? Nothing wrong with the summary. Check your male fragility. The Barbies agreed to give the dim-witted Kens some crumbs. It's stated by the Narrator, in time they will perhaps get as much as women are "allowed" in the real world where every single male-presenting person is a misogynistic twat. The patriarchal brainwashing doesn't work on Beach Ken because he not only doesn't have a penis (object of ridicule) he doesn't have a brain either. That's why his Kendom fails. He's not man enough for himself or Barbie and men are by default controlling predators. Feminist utopia Barbieland works because Barbies are superior in everything. He's just Ken. [[Special:Contributions/95.235.178.68|95.235.178.68]] ([[User talk:95.235.178.68|talk]]) 15:02, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
:::1) Current summary overstates the changes ('equalized treatment for the Kens and all outcast dolls'). A lower circuit court judge is precisely a first step to representation, not 'equalized treatment'.
:::2) Re: 'Check your male fragility.' Attacks ad hominem do not lead to productive discussion, and you are making unfounded assumptions.
:::3) The rest of your reply is, at best, self-contradictory and, if meant in earnest, also suggests there is a lot wrong with the current summary: cf. 'The Barbies agreed to give the dim-witted Kens some crumbs' vs. 'The Barbies <...> decide to make some changes in Barbieland, including equalized treatment for the Kens and all outcast dolls.'
:::If your reply is satire, it could be improved. If it was trolling, this is not the best platform, and this behaviour goes against the Wikipedia guidelines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines). [[User:TheFinalKitty|TheFinalKitty]] ([[User talk:TheFinalKitty|talk]]) 15:19, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
::::The "feminist utopia" in the plot describe a society that subjugated Kens. This article should quote more from the article by Eliana Dockterman of Time in the Themes than just a paragraph. Add a Kenergy subheading to the Themes section to explain his fragile ego. Nowhere the film promotes that Barbies would do anything to include the Kens in their world. [[Special:Contributions/95.235.178.68|95.235.178.68]] ([[User talk:95.235.178.68|talk]]) 16:53, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

== Cast ==
How are you deciding who is Ken 1, Ken 2, Ken 3? [[Special:Contributions/2001:8F8:172B:41ED:ACF0:D8FC:8AF5:B5CF|2001:8F8:172B:41ED:ACF0:D8FC:8AF5:B5CF]] ([[User talk:2001:8F8:172B:41ED:ACF0:D8FC:8AF5:B5CF|talk]]) 16:11, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

:based on their level of fragility. [[Special:Contributions/95.235.178.68|95.235.178.68]] ([[User talk:95.235.178.68|talk]]) 16:26, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

== "critical acclaim" should be changed to "positive reviews" or "generally favorable reviews" ==

The word "acclaim" only appears in the lead section and is not supported by the Metacritic source below in the article itself.

We use Metacritic to determine critical acclaim. If we look at other film pages where the lead section says that the film received "critical acclaim":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killers_of_the_Flower_Moon_(film)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppenheimer_(film)

In both cases, CTRL+F'ing for "acclaim" shows two results: one in the lead section ("critical acclaim"), and one below in the article that acts as the source for that lead section claim ("Metacritic [...], indicating "universal acclaim").

Metacritic's consensus is the source to use in this situation because it is the simplest and provides a directly quotable source "universal acclaim". In comparison, Rotten Tomatoes leaves too much up to subjective speculation, as there is no way to reliably determine at which % a Rotten Tomatoes score becomes "acclaim" as opposed to just "positive". [[User:Z8n|Z8n]] ([[User talk:Z8n|talk]]) 17:22, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
:We don't exclusively use Metacritic to determine a film's critical reception. The lead's summary of the film's reception should be determined by the totality of sources, not just Metacritic, and Rotten Tomatoes should be included among the sources that are used. The film has an 80% on Metacritic, and anything over 80% on that website is considered "acclaimed". So even if we were just going by Metacritic, the film is right on the edge of being considered "acclaimed". But again, Metacritic shouldn't be the only source used to determine the film's reception. On Rotten Tomatoes, Barbie has a 90% fresh score and an average rating of 8.10. And Rotten Tomatoes wrote [https://editorial.rottentomatoes.com/article/barbie-first-reactions-witty-impeccably-designed-overblown-fun/ this article] about the film's reviews, which states, "the buzz on Barbie is exceptional." So I think that "critically acclaimed" is the best way to describe the film's reception in the lead. --[[User:Jpcase|Jpcase]] ([[User talk:Jpcase|talk]]) 17:43, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
::I understand that you are clearly passionate about the film and want to see it rewarded with the "critical acclaim" label, but that's not how Wikipedia works. We don't extrapolate or stretch the truth to make our desired narratives fit, and we especially don't make arguments such as, "Well it's 80/100 and that's close enough to 81/100, so can't we just call it even and say that it is?".
::But let's break this down one one by one.
::> We don't exclusively use Metacritic to determine a film's critical reception.
::Didn't say that. What we do, however, is use Metacritic as a source to determine its eligibility under "critically acclaimed", for reasons that I already explained in detail above. I even provided two examples of such cases: Killers of the Flower Moon, and Oppenheimer.
::If you could provide some examples of some high-profile film pages (i.e. not film pages with low awareness and low activity) that show otherwise, then that would be great.
::> The lead's summary of the film's reception should be determined by the totality of sources, not just Metacritic, and Rotten Tomatoes should be included among the sources that are used.
::Also already addressed. Metacritic is the simplest and provides a direct path of sourcing to the claim "critical acclaim". Keep it simple. If it can't be clearly and simply sourced in line with the methodology used on similar pages (e.g. Killers of the Flower Moon, and Oppenheimer), then it doesn't belong on an encyclopedia.
::As I already said, Rotten Tomatoes leaves too much up to subjective speculation, as there is no way to reliably determine at which % a Rotten Tomatoes score becomes "acclaim" as opposed to just "positive".
::> The film has an 80% on Metacritic, and anything over 80% on that website is considered "acclaimed". So even if we were just going by Metacritic, the film is right on the edge of being considered "acclaimed".
::So end result being, it's not "universally acclaimed" by Metacritic. Saying "Well, it's close enough..." isn't acceptable. We don't fudge facts here to make our desired narratives fit.
::> But again, Metacritic shouldn't be the only source used to determine the film's reception. On Rotten Tomatoes, Barbie has a 90% fresh score and an average rating of 8.10.
::Already addressed above.
::> And Rotten Tomatoes wrote this article about the film's reviews, which states, "the buzz on Barbie is exceptional." So I think that "critically acclaimed" is the best way to describe the film's reception in the lead.
::Exceptional buzz cannot be equated to "critical acclaim". [[User:Z8n|Z8n]] ([[User talk:Z8n|talk]]) 18:02, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
::: I never suggested that we should "fudge" the numbers because the Metacritic score is "close enough." If we were only using Metacritic as a source, then of course it wouldn't be appropriate to describe the reception as anything other than what Metacritic says. But we aren't using Metacritic as the only source. Like I said, we should be looking at the totality of sources. The Rotten Tomatoes score is incredibly high. I think it's very appropriate to describe 90% and an 8.10 average rating on Rotten Tomatoes as "critically acclaimed". And because the Metacritic score is right on the edge of what that website considers "universally acclaimed", I don't think that it should count against describing the film that way. We can't cite Metacritic directly to characterize the film's reception as "acclaimed". But when we take both Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic together, describing the film as "acclaimed" seems perfectly reasonable. --[[User:Jpcase|Jpcase]] ([[User talk:Jpcase|talk]]) 21:30, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
::::Every single point that you just raised has already been addressed, repeatedly.
::::Again, keep it simple. A Metacritic page for a film is a list of scores provided by critics. Therefore, when it says "universal acclaim", that directly allows us to chart a path from source to claim. It's a very simple system that allows us to cite it as a reliable source for "critical acclaim".
::::Now contrast this with your insistence that we also account for the Rotten Tomatoes score and average rating into this equation. By what metric does 90% and 8.10 average rating on Rotten Tomatoes count as "critical acclaim"? What is the threshold? And by what criteria did you decide on that threshold, when Rotten Tomatoes itself does not provide any such ruling?
::::Just to clarify, I am not saying that we should discount Rotten Tomatoes as a whole from the consensus blurb. Rotten Tomatoes is useful to describe exactly what critics are praising, e.g. "[...] for its direction, production design, costumes, music, and performances". But beyond that, using it as a measure of critical acclaim? No, because again, there is no standard of measure there. [[User:Z8n|Z8n]] ([[User talk:Z8n|talk]]) 22:56, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
:::::Metacritic doesn't have a specific measure for critical acclaim either. It has a measure for "universal acclaim", but not for "critical acclaim", which do not mean the same thing. The lead for this article currently says "critically acclaimed", which is just a way of saying that the film has been widely praised. That the film has been widely praised is clearly evidenced by both the Rotten Tomatoes score and the Metacritic score. --[[User:Jpcase|Jpcase]] ([[User talk:Jpcase|talk]]) 02:05, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
::::::Now you are just playing word semantics...not to mention that you also proved that you haven't been reading my comments.
::::::I already pre(?)-addressed that argument in this paragraph above:
::::::Again, keep it simple. A Metacritic page for a film is a list of scores provided by critics. Therefore, when it says "universal acclaim", that directly allows us to chart a path from source to claim. It's a very simple system that allows us to cite it as a reliable source for "critical acclaim".
::::::"universal acclaim [on a page listing scores provided by critics]" = "universal acclaim [by critics]" = "critical acclaim".
::::::A clear, direct link provided only by Metacritic, and not by Rotten Tomatoes. [[User:Z8n|Z8n]] ([[User talk:Z8n|talk]]) 06:08, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
:::::::...me disagreeing with you doesn't mean that I "haven't been reading" your posts. And just because you feel that you've addressed a certain point doesn't mean that you've addressed it in a way that I find convincing. When you say that we can "directly... chart a path from source to claim." It's not as simple as that. And it's not me "playing word semantics" to point it out. "Critically acclaimed" and "universally acclaimed" fundamentally mean different things. Saying that a film has to be "universally acclaimed" for it be described as "critically acclaimed" is just making up an arbitrary standard. Regardless, here's a [https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/barbie-vs-oppenheimer-reviews-1235539643/amp/ ''Hollywood Reporter''] article saying "Both Barbie and Oppenheimer are getting overwhelmingly positive reviews". So based on that quote, I feel that we could describe the film's reception as either "overwhelmingly positive" or "critically acclaimed", which are synonymous descriptions. I prefer "critically acclaimed", because I feel that direct quotes typically shouldn't be used in an article's lead. --[[User:Jpcase|Jpcase]] ([[User talk:Jpcase|talk]]) 12:58, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
::::::::They absolutely do mean the same thing, as I clearly laid out in my previous comment. You are just making that distinction because it fits the narrative that you want to push, which is trying to discredit Metacritic as a reliable single source so that you can get Rotten Tomatoes included in there as well...which you mistakenly yet for some reason fervently believe would then allow Barbie to receive the 'critical acclaim' tag. So from start to finish, none of your arguments hold water, at any step of the way.
::::::::Third-party news articles are irrelevant here. The only source used in this scenario is the simplest and most direct one, which is Metacritic. Scouring the Internet to find sources that back up the narrative that you so clearly want to push doesn't magically make it true. [[User:Z8n|Z8n]] ([[User talk:Z8n|talk]]) 16:54, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::@[[User:Z8n|Z8n]] @[[User:Jpcase|Jpcase]] Guys. Refresh yourself with [[MOS:FILMLEAD]] that discourages the use of ‘unauthoritative’ aggregators, especially MC which is algorithm based and mostly automated. To avoid [[WP:Synthesis]] we go with the one or two most recent and reliable sources that best summarize the press consensus— that Barbie has “shattered” box office expectations and has been met with “critical acclaim” per [[MOS:FILMLEAD]]. And, when in doubt, quote the sources ‘directly’ as I did here. Oppenheimer, for instance, is also being touted on its Wikipedia entry for being a box office hit, and exceeding expectations, with “widespread critical acclaim”- similar to the latest Mission Impossible Wikipedia page— per etiquette and precedence elsewhere. We shouldn’t waterdown this page because the minority making up the anti-woke, far-right crowd has an issue with this movie per [[WP:FRINGE]] and [[WP:Censor]].
:::::::::With opening weekend coming to a close, there are now more than enough legit citations (i.e. like Variety) that are properly and fairly supporting the content as it’s being reported here. Try not to be [[WP:Pointy]] about this. [[Special:Contributions/216.200.84.231|216.200.84.231]] ([[User talk:216.200.84.231|talk]]) 20:32, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
::::::::::"We shouldn’t waterdown this page because the minority making up the anti-woke, far-right crowd has an issue with this movie per WP:FRINGE and WP:Censor."
::::::::::Umm, what? What does this have to do with anything? So just because a film is receiving criticism from fringe lunatics, that means that Wikipedia should sacrifice its role as an encyclopedia and rush to its defense?
::::::::::An encyclopedia is based on facts. And it is a fact that Barbie has not received critical acclaim.
::::::::::Who are you and why are you posting from behind an anonymous IP address? [[User:Z8n|Z8n]] ([[User talk:Z8n|talk]]) 21:54, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
:Do not use duplicate bare refs, and do not cite refs that are not related to the specific information. Only ''Screen Rant'' states "critical acclaim". 90% on RT and 80 (not 90) Metascore do not mean "critical acclaim". [[User talk:Nyxaros|<small style="font color:purple">ภץאคгöร</small>]] 20:48, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
::@[[User:Nyxaros|Nyxaros]] Untrue. Even so- One source is enough per [[MOS:FILMLEAD]], and it’s clearly implied by the others, and we can list more if you require. RT and MC certainly make the case for critical acclaim.
::Again, refresh yourself with [[MOS:FILMLEAD]] which says we should summarize the press consensus with ONE or two recent sources that best summarize the reporting. The movie is already a cultural phenomenon with box office and critical reception. The simple fact that you don’t like it ain’t enough.
::Stop flirting with [[WP:FRINGE]] and [[WP:OR]] [[Special:Contributions/2607:FB91:7B9:D49:457B:39E4:B30E:320B|2607:FB91:7B9:D49:457B:39E4:B30E:320B]] ([[User talk:2607:FB91:7B9:D49:457B:39E4:B30E:320B|talk]]) 21:11, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
:::Yes, if you actually read the article you would've seen that I've used that one source ''per'' MOS:FILMLEAD. No, RT and MC do not state "critical acclaim", see [[WP: SYNTH]]. You insist adding unsourced reception summary and duplicate bare refs. I didn't write anything about not liking it. I'm not "flirting" with anything. Instead of calling editors "NPOV vandal", "troll", "Your WP:nothere to WP:censor", I recommend that you learn how to [[WP:WBA|write better articles]] and learn about [[WP:CIVIL|civility]]. [[User talk:Nyxaros|<small style="font color:purple">ภץאคгöร</small>]] 21:21, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
:::Who are you, why are you posting from multiple anonymous IP addresses, and why are you trying to discredit legitimate arguments by trying to present them as "fringe" and "original research", when they aren't? [[User:Z8n|Z8n]] ([[User talk:Z8n|talk]]) 21:56, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
::@[[User:Nyxaros|Nyxaros]] This debate is not taking place at the Oppenheimer page or the Mission Impossible page, or several others just like it. And those films have “wide spread critical acclaim”. The movie is being reported as a box office and cultural phenomenon. I will simply include MORE citations that use this direct language as well. But even without it, it’s fine pet [[MOS:FILMLEAD]] and [[WP:V]]. Your ‘reasoning’ is [[WP:OR]] and your edits elsewhere are not consistent with regards your own logic. [[Special:Contributions/2607:FB91:7B9:D49:457B:39E4:B30E:320B|2607:FB91:7B9:D49:457B:39E4:B30E:320B]] ([[User talk:2607:FB91:7B9:D49:457B:39E4:B30E:320B|talk]]) 21:28, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
::@[[User:Nyxaros|Nyxaros]] Here is yet ANOTHER source reporting on “Barbie” receiving “critical acclaim” https://www.economictimes.com/news/international/us/barbie-vs-oppenheimer-at-box-office-who-won-at-the-preview-and-what-else-now/amp_articleshow/102024360.cms [[Special:Contributions/2607:FB91:7B9:D49:457B:39E4:B30E:320B|2607:FB91:7B9:D49:457B:39E4:B30E:320B]] ([[User talk:2607:FB91:7B9:D49:457B:39E4:B30E:320B|talk]]) 21:34, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
:::Because, as I already explained in my previous comments, those films received "universal acclaim" on Metacritic. Barbie hasn't. Keep. It. Simple.
:::If you have to scour the Internet to find a bunch of sources that support the narrative that you want to push and have to accuse the opposing side of being "fringe" and conspiratorial, then you've already lost the argument. [[User:Z8n|Z8n]] ([[User talk:Z8n|talk]]) 21:57, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
*For what it's worth, relying on Metacritic entirely to determine critic consensus is silly here. It would only take one gushing review to knock the film into 81 and the "universal acclaim" bracket. What then, does Wikipedia follow suit? Oh, but another review the next day brings it back to 80. Do we go back again? Such a situation demands us to look at what reliable secondary sources say. Or better yet, simply state "The film received praise from critics for its x, y, z" and call it a day. [[User:DeluxeVegan|DeluxeVegan]] ([[User talk:DeluxeVegan|talk]]) 20:53, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
::If "received praise" is more acceptable to others than "recieved critical acclaim", than I'd be fine with using that instead. --[[User:Jpcase|Jpcase]] ([[User talk:Jpcase|talk]]) 21:15, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Jpcase|Jpcase]] Let’s not engage in [[WP:FALSEBALANCE]] simply to appease those pushing an agenda [[WP:NOTHERE]] to respect the actual reporting. Either “received critical acclaim” or “widespread acclaim” both work if you need to remove “critical”. But anything less is watering this down to satisfy a [[WP:Fringe]] element actively trolling this page because it offends political sensibilities that have nothing to do with price of pink tomatoes. [[Special:Contributions/198.233.227.214|198.233.227.214]] ([[User talk:198.233.227.214|talk]]) 00:32, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
::::Universal acclaim is for films unanimously loved by everyone who saw them and praised it. 99.99% with 0.1% is Ben Shapiro and all your male fragility. [[Special:Contributions/95.235.178.68|95.235.178.68]] ([[User talk:95.235.178.68|talk]]) 16:37, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 25 July 2023 ==

{{Edit semi-protected|Barbie (film)|answered=yes}}
change “positive reviews” to “critical acclaim” [[Special:Contributions/2601:204:EC7F:4C10:694E:7C9:A6ED:FD66|2601:204:EC7F:4C10:694E:7C9:A6ED:FD66]] ([[User talk:2601:204:EC7F:4C10:694E:7C9:A6ED:FD66|talk]]) 18:28, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:HouseBlaster|House]][[Special:Contributions/HouseBlaster|Blaster]]<sup>[[User talk:HouseBlaster|talk]]</sup> 01:29, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

== Mention Feminism Backlash in Reception Category. ==

The movie for average audience has a controversial rating currently around 2.6/5.0 on google. I think it should be mentioned. Most assumingly due to men giving large amount of 1 stars reviews, if someone felt they could reasearch write more about it. [[Special:Contributions/2600:1014:B13D:8D6B:AD5B:DB8A:5974:2C7D|2600:1014:B13D:8D6B:AD5B:DB8A:5974:2C7D]] ([[User talk:2600:1014:B13D:8D6B:AD5B:DB8A:5974:2C7D|talk]]) 01:18, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

:No such "research" should ever be made from WP editors side as this qualifies under [[WP:OR]]. If any [[WP:RS|reliable source]] mentions that, make an edit request. [[User:A09|A09]] ([[User talk:A09|talk]]) 14:40, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2023 ==

{{Edit semi-protected|Barbie (film)|answered=yes}}
Simu Liu and Michael Cera should be included in the last sentence of the 1st paragraph regarding the ensemble cast. They should also be included in the list of people starring in the movie (right after the “Produced by” section). They have both appeared in interviews and preview clips for the movie and their roles are integral to the storyline of the movie. [[Special:Contributions/74.105.174.222|74.105.174.222]] ([[User talk:74.105.174.222|talk]]) 10:50, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration '''[[Wikipedia:Edit requests|before]]''' using the {{Tlx|Edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 12:06, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2023 (2) ==


{{edit semi-protected|Barbie (film)|answered=yes}}
{{edit semi-protected|Barbie (film)|answered=yes}}
“Change The Kens indoctrinate the Barbies into submissive roles, such as agreeable girlfriends, housewives, and maids. Barbie arrives and attempts to convince the Barbies to be independent again. When her attempts fail, she becomes depressed. Gloria expresses her frustration with the conflicting standards women are forced to follow in the real world. Gloria's speech restores Barbie's confidence. to
please correct various typos of “Kriez” to “Kreiz” in Production section [[Special:Contributions/2601:204:EC7F:4C10:694E:7C9:A6ED:FD66|2601:204:EC7F:4C10:694E:7C9:A6ED:FD66]] ([[User talk:2601:204:EC7F:4C10:694E:7C9:A6ED:FD66|talk]]) 13:26, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> '''<span style="color:#f535aa">—</span> [[User:Paper9oll|<span style="background:#f535aa;color:#fff;padding:2px;border-radius:5px">Paper9oll</span>]] <span style="color:#f535aa">([[User talk:Paper9oll|🔔]] • [[Special:Contributions/Paper9oll|📝]])</span>''' 14:28, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2023 ==

{{edit semi-protected|Barbie (film)|answered=yes}}
In the lead, please change “positive reviews” to “widespread acclaim” or “critical acclaim” and mention “exceeding box office expectations, with the film being the highest grossing opening weekend by a woman.”<ref>https://www.economictimes.com/news/international/us/barbie-vs-oppenheimer-at-box-office-who-won-at-the-preview-and-what-else-now/amp_articleshow/102024360.cms</ref><ref> https://variety.com/2023/film/news/barbenheimer-box-office-barbie-oppenheimer-historic-weekend-1235678323/amp/</ref><ref>
https://screenrant.com/barbie-oppenheimer-box-office-opening-weekend-record/</ref>

This film certainly has “critical acclaimed” based upon several sources. Because of the backlash, I’ve noticed certain ‘editors’ are [[WP:Gaming]] the page simply because they want to waterdown the film’s well-reported success.

The sources included more than satisfy [[WP:RS]] and some editors are that the sources reporting on this (saying the film received “acclaim”) are not enough, with them dishonestly suggesting that there is some disagreement among the press when there is not, as there is only a disagreement among zealous editors! That is wiki [[WP:OR]] last I checked.

Can we please fix this and stop letting this page become so politicized?!?! It’s just a movie! This kind of unfair debate isn’t taking place on other film pages like the Mission Impossible movie, tbh. We need to stop giving [[WP:Undue]] weight to these political editors and their slanted POV.

Please fix this someone? Thanks! [[User:Themaninblack2023|Themaninblack2023]] ([[User talk:Themaninblack2023|talk]]) 00:37, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now:''' please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration '''[[Wikipedia:Edit requests|before]]''' using the {{Tlx|Edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> Ongoing [[#"critical acclaim" should be changed to "positive reviews" or "generally favorable reviews"|discussion]] above. '''<span style="color:#f535aa">—</span> [[User:Paper9oll|<span style="background:#f535aa;color:#fff;padding:2px;border-radius:5px">Paper9oll</span>]] <span style="color:#f535aa">([[User talk:Paper9oll|🔔]] • [[Special:Contributions/Paper9oll|📝]])</span>''' 10:42, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Mattel executives denying the feminist nature of the film to avoid boycotts ==

It is true that Mattel executives denied Barbie being a feminist film in attempt to avoid another boycott despite the contrary words from the cast and director, and there are multiple official and reliable sources that confirm that like the ones previously presented in the Marketing section. So why this fact should not be included in the article and gets deemed "disruptive editing" despite no violation made even to the point of blocking the article even for autoconfirmed users? [[User:(Un)Lucky Duke|(Un)Lucky Duke]] ([[User talk:(Un)Lucky Duke|talk]]) 13:35, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

:The fact that Gerwig and Robbie have said that it is a feminist film, whereas Mattel officials have not, is already mentioned in the article (it's in the 'Writing' section). The other stuff you are trying to add appears to be speculation, which I didn't see in any of the sources (although I only read the first four). You also appeared to be using [[WP:SCAREQUOTES]]. [[User:Girth Summit|<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#006400;">Girth</span>&nbsp;<span style="font-family:Impact;color:#4B0082;">Summit</span>]][[User talk:Girth Summit|<sub style="font-family:Segoe print;color:blue;"> (blether)</sub>]] 16:13, 27 July 2023 (UTC)


== suspect copyvio ==
The edit that inserted [[Special:Diff/1166099897|the plot]] added plain text, as in a copy-paste from some website. I suspect the plot being sourced in a press release by Warner Bros. because it has been used a lot since all over the Net. Thanks <span style="font-family:Times; color:#219">'''[[User:Ruthven|Ruthven]]'''</span> <span style="color:#0070EE"><small>([[User talk:Ruthven|<span style="color:#101090">msg</span>]])</small></span> 14:53, 27 July 2023 (UTC)


The Kens exert their influence over the Barbies, mmaking them into submissive roles like compliant girlfriends, homemakers, and domestic servants. Barbie intervenes, striving to rekindle the spirit of independence among the Barbies. Despite her earnest efforts, she finds herself faced with resistance, leading to a deep sense of despondency.
:I haven't been able to find the original source, but the earliest dated one I could find is the same date as the insertion into this article. [[User:Jpgordon|--jpgordon]]<sup><small>[[User talk:Jpgordon|&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107;]]</small></sup> 16:37, 27 July 2023 (UTC)


Gloria, feeling the weight of societal expectations pressing down on her, passionately articulates her frustration with the double standards that women encounter in the real world. Her impassioned speech serves as a beacon of empowerment, reigniting Barbie's inner strength and resolve. With renewed confidence.” [[User:Westkayla|Westkayla]] ([[User talk:Westkayla|talk]]) 18:47, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
::I wrote the initial version of the plotline and posted it on the morning (CET) of 19 July after attending a sneak peak screening of Barbie the night prior over here in Europe. The film was released here a few days before it came out in America. I wrote out the plotline entirely from my memory of seeing the film and I did not rely on outside sources, blogs that posted the plot based on a leaked press release, or anything like that. I've just taken a look at the post on this High on Cinema website and, sure enough, the author cut and pasted the text from the Wikipedia page. While most of it is my original text, there's also plenty of stuff in there that was added by other Wikipedia editors who must have also seen the film early. Based on the content and additions, I assume the author grabbed the text off Wikipedia and plopped it on their website sometime during the evening (CET) of the 19th. I hope this information helps clarify what happened. There was a plagiarist at work here, but it was the author over on High on Cinema who apparently just cuts and pastes stuff off Wikipedia and slaps a movie news label on it. [[User:Constablequackers|Constablequackers]] ([[User talk:Constablequackers|talk]]) 08:45, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> The previous wording is grammatically better. [[User:DrowssapSMM|<span style="color:#7f5c23;font-size:15px;text-shadow:1px 2px 2px gray;">'''Drowssap'''</span>]][[User talk:DrowssapSMM|<span style="color:#237f5c;font-size:15px;text-shadow:1px 2px 2px gray;">'''''SMM'''''</span>]] 19:46, 29 March 2024 (UTC)


== Movie poster is tiny - can someone upload a bigger version? ==


When I click on the movie poster, it doesn't enlarge. I just get an absolutely miniscule image that you need a microscope to see. Can someone upload a larger version? [[User:MisterZed|MisterZed]] ([[User talk:MisterZed|talk]]) 17:04, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 July 2023 ==


:{{ul|MisterZed}}, since the film poster is a non-free image, Wikipedia keeps such images small as part of being a free encyclopedia. It's only used for identification here. If you want film poster images, I think another website is best. IMP Awards is one such website. [[User:Erik|Erik]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Erik|talk]]&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Erik|contrib]]) <sup>([[Template:Reply to|ping me]])</sup> 17:47, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
{{edit extended-protected|Barbie (film)|answered=yes}}
::It's not small, though, it's tiny. It's barely more than 300 pixels high. Why can't it be say, 600 pixels? Wouldn't that still be considered "small"? Also, in the past I remember such images on Wikipedia being larger. [[User:MisterZed|MisterZed]] ([[User talk:MisterZed|talk]]) 18:38, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
Spelling correction: under Production > Writing, in fourth paragraph of this section, please change "tellng" to "telling". Thank you! [[User:Kyrichips|Kyrichips]] ([[User talk:Kyrichips|talk]]) 21:30, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
:::They may have tightened it over the years. [[WP:IMAGERES]] says 250 x 400 pixels, for example. {{shrug}} [[User:Erik|Erik]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Erik|talk]]&nbsp;&#124;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Erik|contrib]]) <sup>([[Template:Reply to|ping me]])</sup> 18:51, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
:{{done}} [[User:WelpThatWorked|WelpThatWorked]] ([[User talk:WelpThatWorked|talk]]) 22:06, 27 July 2023 (UTC)


== A sequel is officially in the works ==
== “Ideology” ==


https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/barbie-sequel-status-greta-grewig-noah-baumbach-warner-bros-1236083434/
The “feminism” section was renamed to “ideology,” but the section only addresses feminist ideology and no other kinds of ideology (economic, religious, etc). It would make sense to rename it to “feminism” or “feminist theory” or something more relevant, or to add a broader range of ideologies covered by the themes of the movie. [[User:Catboy69|Catboy69]] ([[User talk:Catboy69|talk]]) 03:58, 28 July 2023 (UTC)


Can someone put this on the page? Thanks. [[User:Mattgelo|Mattgelo]] ([[User talk:Mattgelo|talk]]) 23:27, 13 December 2024 (UTC)
== Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 July 2023 ==


:I just created a draft: [[Draft:Barbie 2]]. [[User:Thriley|Thriley]] ([[User talk:Thriley|talk]]) 02:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
{{edit extended-protected|Barbie (film)|answered=no}}
== "[[:Humans have only one ending. Ideas live for ever.]]" listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|Redirects for discussion]] ==
Hey I want to blank the page can I do it please [[Special:Contributions/101.162.94.218|101.162.94.218]] ([[User talk:101.162.94.218|talk]]) 09:49, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
[[File:Information.svg|30px]]
The redirect <span class="plainlinks">[//en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Humans_have_only_one_ending._Ideas_live_for_ever.&redirect=no Humans have only one ending. Ideas live for ever.]</span> has been listed at [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|redirects for discussion]] to determine whether its use and function meets the [[Wikipedia:Redirect|redirect guidelines]]. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at '''{{slink|Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 January 9#Humans have only one ending. Ideas live for ever.}}''' until a consensus is reached. <!-- Template:RFDNote --> <span style="background-color: #FFCFBF; font-variant: small-caps">[[User:Utopes|Utopes]] <sub>('''[[User talk:Utopes|talk]]''' / '''[[Special:Contributions/Utopes|cont]]''')</sub></span> 20:56, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 20:56, 9 January 2025

Some tweaking of sections to cut down on point-of-view pushing

[edit]

Compared to other wikipedia entries about movies, some folks are giving Barbie a hardtime with convoluted passive-aggressive framing. These are mostly written in a more objective neutral fashion than this. Following the form & ettiquette of those other more cogent examples. Letting the NYT review summarize the overall critical reception clearly stacks the deck suggesting a mixed reception that isn't true. Muddling and burying as a form of synthesizing. Moving the NYT review where it is appropriate & makes sense.See https://en.wikipedia.org/enwiki/w/index.php?title=Barbie_(film)&diff=prev&oldid=1215012885 Other changes and trims to follow. 2601:280:CB00:903C:7580:40A2:4539:C4B6 (talk) 16:32, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Barbillion"

[edit]

Is this noteworthy in a Wikipedia article? A made-up word by Warner Bros marketing? Seems rather silly to include a nonsense word. Feudonym (talk) 10:08, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2024

[edit]

“Change The Kens indoctrinate the Barbies into submissive roles, such as agreeable girlfriends, housewives, and maids. Barbie arrives and attempts to convince the Barbies to be independent again. When her attempts fail, she becomes depressed. Gloria expresses her frustration with the conflicting standards women are forced to follow in the real world. Gloria's speech restores Barbie's confidence. to


The Kens exert their influence over the Barbies, mmaking them into submissive roles like compliant girlfriends, homemakers, and domestic servants. Barbie intervenes, striving to rekindle the spirit of independence among the Barbies. Despite her earnest efforts, she finds herself faced with resistance, leading to a deep sense of despondency.

Gloria, feeling the weight of societal expectations pressing down on her, passionately articulates her frustration with the double standards that women encounter in the real world. Her impassioned speech serves as a beacon of empowerment, reigniting Barbie's inner strength and resolve. With renewed confidence.” Westkayla (talk) 18:47, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: The previous wording is grammatically better. DrowssapSMM 19:46, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Movie poster is tiny - can someone upload a bigger version?

[edit]

When I click on the movie poster, it doesn't enlarge. I just get an absolutely miniscule image that you need a microscope to see. Can someone upload a larger version? MisterZed (talk) 17:04, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

MisterZed, since the film poster is a non-free image, Wikipedia keeps such images small as part of being a free encyclopedia. It's only used for identification here. If you want film poster images, I think another website is best. IMP Awards is one such website. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 17:47, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's not small, though, it's tiny. It's barely more than 300 pixels high. Why can't it be say, 600 pixels? Wouldn't that still be considered "small"? Also, in the past I remember such images on Wikipedia being larger. MisterZed (talk) 18:38, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They may have tightened it over the years. WP:IMAGERES says 250 x 400 pixels, for example. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 18:51, 30 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A sequel is officially in the works

[edit]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/barbie-sequel-status-greta-grewig-noah-baumbach-warner-bros-1236083434/

Can someone put this on the page? Thanks. Mattgelo (talk) 23:27, 13 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just created a draft: Draft:Barbie 2. Thriley (talk) 02:53, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Humans have only one ending. Ideas live for ever." listed at Redirects for discussion

[edit]

The redirect Humans have only one ending. Ideas live for ever. has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2025 January 9 § Humans have only one ending. Ideas live for ever. until a consensus is reached. Utopes (talk / cont) 20:56, 9 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

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