Talk:Falcon 9: Difference between revisions
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== Turnaround == |
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[[Scott Manley]] mentioned "fastest '''turnaround'''" in his [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEQ4lyhRgXw&t=119s Deep Space Updates February 18th @1m59s], which would be a great addition under ==Capabilities== somewhere. -- [[User:Ponken|Ponken]] ([[User talk:Ponken|talk]]) 09:09, 19 February 2023 (UTC) |
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== "Partial failures" metric == |
== "Partial failures" metric == |
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The summary box still shows only one partial failure (Partial failure(s) 1 (v1.0: CRS-1)[9]), however, another "partial failure" is Transporter 6 mission. Also, Zuma mission's outcome remains unknown, so maybe it is reasonable to have additional metric "outcome unknown"? [[Special:Contributions/207.102.27.181|207.102.27.181]] ([[User talk:207.102.27.181|talk]]) 20:15, 21 February 2023 (UTC) |
The summary box still shows only one partial failure (Partial failure(s) 1 (v1.0: CRS-1)[9]), however, another "partial failure" is Transporter 6 mission. Also, Zuma mission's outcome remains unknown, so maybe it is reasonable to have additional metric "outcome unknown"? [[Special:Contributions/207.102.27.181|207.102.27.181]] ([[User talk:207.102.27.181|talk]]) 20:15, 21 February 2023 (UTC) |
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:@207.102.27.181 King Ali Aljanabi monuiy [[Special:Contributions/2A02:AA7:460F:1129:1:1:1C6B:3E0F|2A02:AA7:460F:1129:1:1:1C6B:3E0F]] ([[User talk:2A02:AA7:460F:1129:1:1:1C6B:3E0F|talk]]) 22:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC) |
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== Is Falcon 9 heavy lift of medium lift == |
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:Zuma wasn't a failure of Falcon 9, and I don't know of any issue with Transporter 6. [[User:Redacted II|Redacted II]] ([[User talk:Redacted II|talk]]) 12:19, 2 January 2024 (UTC) |
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In its expendable form it is heavy and reusable medium. Which should we say? [[Special:Contributions/2600:4040:937B:1B00:7D56:1A56:4D46:D1C5|2600:4040:937B:1B00:7D56:1A56:4D46:D1C5]] ([[User talk:2600:4040:937B:1B00:7D56:1A56:4D46:D1C5|talk]]) 11:51, 10 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:I would say heavy as it definition is "capacity upwards of..." [[User:Starship 24|Starship 24]] ([[User talk:Starship 24|talk]]) 21:55, 17 March 2023 (UTC) |
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:We have this problem in lots of places where an arbitrary distinction is used. Many configurable rockets have configurations that fall into two or more categories, including Falcon Heavy and Vulcan. It happens in a lot of non-rocketry areas also. Because it is arbitrary, there is no "correct" solution, so just do your best. If it really bothers you create a footnote to explain the situation. -[[User:Arch dude|Arch dude]] ([[User talk:Arch dude|talk]]) 02:04, 18 March 2023 (UTC) |
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::However, it is not a "partially reusable heavy lift rocket". It is either a "partially reusable medium lift rocket", or it is an "expendable heavy lift rocket", depending on the mission. -[[User:Arch dude|Arch dude]] ([[User talk:Arch dude|talk]]) 17:05, 10 May 2023 (UTC) |
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::: I chose to use "partially reusable medium lift" in the first sentence and I added a "expendable heavy lift" second sentence. I chose this order because in more than 200 launches, it has never flown as a heavy-lift vehicle. -[[User:Arch dude|Arch dude]] ([[User talk:Arch dude|talk]]) 17:15, 10 May 2023 (UTC) |
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== Merge Falcon 9 Block Variants == |
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{{Discussion top|result=The result of this discussion was '''don't merge''' . [[User:Cocobb8|Cocobb8]] ([[User talk:Cocobb8|talk]]) 18:52, 23 May 2023 (UTC)}} |
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{{ping|N2e|Lfstevens|JFG|CactiStaccingCrane}} Hello, this is to notify you that there is a discussion on the [[Falcon 9]] article concerning the merging of its other block variants articles into Falcon 9 article. If you'd like to add your opinions, feel free to do so [[Talk:Falcon 9#Merge Falcon 9 Block Variants|here]]. Thank you! [[User:Cocobb8|Cocobb8]] ([[User talk:Cocobb8|talk]]) 14:33, 20 May 2023 (UTC) |
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I propose merging [[Falcon 9 v1.0]], [[Falcon 9 v1.1]], [[Falcon 9 Full Thrust]] and [[Falcon 9 Block 5]] into this article, [[Falcon 9]]. Most rocket articles don't have a separate article for every block variant, so it would make sense to follow that logic. Feel free to '''support all''', '''oppose all''' or '''partially support'''. Any thoughts? |
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* '''Support all''' - See reasoning above. [[User:Cocobb8|Cocobb8]] ([[User talk:Cocobb8|talk]]) 17:04, 18 May 2023 (UTC) |
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* '''Support''' merging split content to this article. [[User:Fnlayson|-Fnlayson]] ([[User talk:Fnlayson|talk]]) 19:16, 18 May 2023 (UTC) |
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* '''Alternative''' My issue is that the article is already pretty long. I'd rather see the blocks merged into a single article of their own Falcon 9 block variants article. That keeps the level of detail down in the main article and provides less bloat than separate articles as the variants continue to emerge. [[User:Lfstevens|Lfstevens]] ([[User talk:Lfstevens|talk]]) 19:39, 20 May 2023 (UTC) |
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* '''Alternative''' Merging all would make the article too long or would remove a lot of content from the article(s). [[List of Falcon 9 versions]] or similar could cover the differences between the versions. --[[User:Mfb|mfb]] ([[User talk:Mfb|talk]]) 05:37, 21 May 2023 (UTC) |
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* '''Comment''' - I can see the reasoning behind this but Falcon 9 has had a pretty articulate development history with some very significant milestones that deserve to be detailed. Wouldn't we loose a lot of content like this? <span style="color:#AAA"><small><nowiki>{{u|</nowiki></small>[[User:Gtoffoletto|<span style="color:darkGreen;font-weight:bold">Gtoffoletto</span>]]<small><nowiki>}}</nowiki></small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Gtoffoletto|'''talk''']]</sup> 13:29, 21 May 2023 (UTC) |
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*:Thanks for your comment! If we were to merge all the block variants, we surely would be more limited in terms of length. However, if losing material is a problem for you, other users have mentioned an alternative to create a new article covering all the block variants, which, according to what you want, would allow for more material to be included. [[User:Cocobb8|Cocobb8]] ([[User talk:Cocobb8|talk]]) 14:58, 21 May 2023 (UTC) |
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*::I'm not sure that's a good solution. I checked and for the Soyuz we have this page: [[Soyuz (rocket family)]] with an article for each version (e.g. [[Soyuz-U2]]). I would probably err on the side of precedent here. <span style="color:#AAA"><small><nowiki>{{u|</nowiki></small>[[User:Gtoffoletto|<span style="color:darkGreen;font-weight:bold">Gtoffoletto</span>]]<small><nowiki>}}</nowiki></small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Gtoffoletto|'''talk''']]</sup> 15:13, 21 May 2023 (UTC) |
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*'''Refactor''' This article is already too long, and the merger would make it much worse. Maybe just merge the block articles into a single block article, but a "history" article might be a better choice. It would have portions of the history from this main article in addition to putting the block articles there. -[[User:Arch dude|Arch dude]] ([[User talk:Arch dude|talk]]) 15:12, 21 May 2023 (UTC) |
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* '''Oppose and rename?''' – Like others said the resulting page would be too long. We should follow precedent such as: [[Soyuz (rocket family)]] with an article for each version (e.g. [[Soyuz-U2]]). Maybe we should rename this page to '''Falcon 9 (rocket family)'''? <span style="color:#AAA"><small><nowiki>{{u|</nowiki></small>[[User:Gtoffoletto|<span style="color:darkGreen;font-weight:bold">Gtoffoletto</span>]]<small><nowiki>}}</nowiki></small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Gtoffoletto|'''talk''']]</sup> 15:16, 21 May 2023 (UTC) |
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*:Yes, I agree for the renaming. It would make way more sense, as it is not only '''one''' launch vehicle. [[User:Cocobb8|Cocobb8]] ([[User talk:Cocobb8|talk]]) 15:21, 21 May 2023 (UTC) |
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*::@[[User:Gtoffoletto|Gtoffoletto]], I've been thinking about it, and technically it would make more sense to have an article [[Falcon (rocket family)]]. It is currently under the name of [[SpaceX launch vehicles]], but that means that [[SpaceX Starship|Starship]] would be included there. It would make more sense to just include [[Falcon 9]], [[Falcon 1]] and [[Falcon Heavy]], (with possibly their block variants) which are all the same kind of rocket. Technically, v1.1 and such are just block variants, so I don't think we can say that they are different rockets: just different blocks of one. For instance, I don't think that we have a separate article for every block variant of the [[Space Launch System|SLS]]. [[User:Cocobb8|Cocobb8]] ([[User talk:Cocobb8|talk]]) 14:17, 23 May 2023 (UTC) |
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*:::Probably yes. <span style="color:#AAA"><small><nowiki>{{u|</nowiki></small>[[User:Gtoffoletto|<span style="color:darkGreen;font-weight:bold">Gtoffoletto</span>]]<small><nowiki>}}</nowiki></small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Gtoffoletto|'''talk''']]</sup> 16:36, 23 May 2023 (UTC) |
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*::::Do you think we'd have to create a brand-new article and merge everything there? [[User:Cocobb8|Cocobb8]] ([[User talk:Cocobb8|talk]]) 17:51, 23 May 2023 (UTC) |
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*:::::We can just propose to rename [[SpaceX launch vehicles]] <span style="color:#AAA"><small><nowiki>{{u|</nowiki></small>[[User:Gtoffoletto|<span style="color:darkGreen;font-weight:bold">Gtoffoletto</span>]]<small><nowiki>}}</nowiki></small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Gtoffoletto|'''talk''']]</sup> 18:02, 23 May 2023 (UTC) |
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*::::::The thing is, it includes [[SpaceX launch vehicles#Starship|Starship]] as of now. [[User:Cocobb8|Cocobb8]] ([[User talk:Cocobb8|talk]]) 18:29, 23 May 2023 (UTC) |
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*:::::::I would remove it and just mention it as a successor. But we need to propose this on that page. <span style="color:#AAA"><small><nowiki>{{u|</nowiki></small>[[User:Gtoffoletto|<span style="color:darkGreen;font-weight:bold">Gtoffoletto</span>]]<small><nowiki>}}</nowiki></small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Gtoffoletto|'''talk''']]</sup> 18:35, 23 May 2023 (UTC) |
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*:::::::::I'll close the discussion here as it seems like we've reached a consensus. [[User:Cocobb8|Cocobb8]] ([[User talk:Cocobb8|talk]]) 18:38, 23 May 2023 (UTC) |
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*:Oppose to renaming; it would create confusion if the article covers Falcon Heavy (derived form Falcon 9, and with former name "Falcon 9 Heavy") and [[Falcon 9 Air]] as well. I realize that "Falcon 9 (rocket family)" currently redirects to this article, but I believe it's wrong. I think the redirect should be converted to a set index article, or re-targeted to [[SpaceX launch vehicles]]. |
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* '''Oppose all''' In addition to "Soyuz" variants (already discussed), there are articles on [[Long March (rocket family)|Long March (Changzheng)]] variants, on Proton variants ([[Proton-K]], [[Proton-M]]), Zenith variants ([[Zenit-3SL]], [[Zenit-3SLB]], [[Zenit-3F]]). So there is no clear precedent. In addition, there is no generally accepted definition what is a variant of a rocket vs. a new rocked, derived from the existing one. For example, are [[H-IIA]] and [[H-IIB]] variants of each other and of [[H-II]]? I think some confusion may also be related to the treatment of configurations (also called variants). It looks like it is uncommon to have separate articles on rocket configurations (for example, [[Atlas V]] 401, 402, 411, ..., 552). But for Falcon 9, the rough equivalent would be expendable/reusable configurations, or short/long nozzle MVac. We don't have separate articles for these now; there is nothing to adjust here. [[User:Teaktl17|Teaktl17]] ([[User talk:Teaktl17|talk]]) 19:36, 21 May 2023 (UTC) |
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*:Thanks for your comment! [[User:Cocobb8|Cocobb8]] ([[User talk:Cocobb8|talk]]) 21:03, 21 May 2023 (UTC) |
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:'''Oppose''' - I don't have a whole lot of arguments, but, all of these pages added up, are longer or almost as long as the current article Falcon 9 itself. Consider that the resulting article would be twice as long and unpractical to read. [[User:CodemWiki|CodemWiki]] ([[User talk:CodemWiki|talk]]) 21:18, 21 May 2023 (UTC) |
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{{Discussion bottom}} |
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== Large specification change without supporting reference == |
== Large specification change without supporting reference == |
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:Supporting this - the ~93t prop figure is for a very old version of F9US according to this: |
:Supporting this - the ~93t prop figure is for a very old version of F9US according to this: |
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:https://web.archive.org/web/20220406013729/https://www.spacelaunchreport.com/falcon9ft.html [[User:MP99|MP99]] ([[User talk:MP99|talk]]) 19:38, 4 October 2023 (UTC) |
:https://web.archive.org/web/20220406013729/https://www.spacelaunchreport.com/falcon9ft.html [[User:MP99|MP99]] ([[User talk:MP99|talk]]) 19:38, 4 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::I came here to post the same link. |
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::ISTM the previous version needs to be reverted, as it is clearly closer to the true values. |
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== Add A Fact: "California rejects increase in SpaceX launches" == |
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I found a fact that might belong in this article. See the quote below |
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<blockquote> |
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The Space Force had sought to increase the number of launches of SpaceX’s flagship Falcon 9 rocket from 36 to 50 per year out of California. But on Thursday, the California Coastal Commission denied the bid in a 6-4 vote, pointing to its previous requests for the military and SpaceX to mitigate the disruptive sonic booms caused by the rockets and to keep a closer eye on the operations’ effects on the state’s wildlife. |
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</blockquote> |
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The fact comes from the following source: |
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: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/12/us/spacex-launch-california.html |
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This post was generated using the [[:meta:Future_Audiences/Experiment:Add_a_Fact|Add A Fact]] browser extension. |
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[[User:TJMSmith|TJMSmith]] ([[User talk:TJMSmith|talk]]) 16:44, 13 October 2024 (UTC) |
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== Wrong launch tally == |
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As of November 4 the total launch tally says 390 but shouldn't it be 388? |
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2010: 2, 2012: 2, 2013: 3, 2014: 6, 2015: 7, 2016: 8, 2017: 18, 2018: 20, 2019: 11, 2020: 26, 2021: 31, 2022: 60, 2023: 91, 2024: 103 (so far) |
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That's 388 in total. Am I missing something? [[User:Lomicto|Lomicto]] ([[User talk:Lomicto|talk]]) 01:35, 4 November 2024 (UTC) |
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Latest revision as of 15:55, 5 November 2024
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"Partial failures" metric
[edit]The summary box still shows only one partial failure (Partial failure(s) 1 (v1.0: CRS-1)[9]), however, another "partial failure" is Transporter 6 mission. Also, Zuma mission's outcome remains unknown, so maybe it is reasonable to have additional metric "outcome unknown"? 207.102.27.181 (talk) 20:15, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
- @207.102.27.181 King Ali Aljanabi monuiy 2A02:AA7:460F:1129:1:1:1C6B:3E0F (talk) 22:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Zuma wasn't a failure of Falcon 9, and I don't know of any issue with Transporter 6. Redacted II (talk) 12:19, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
Large specification change without supporting reference
[edit]This page previously listed specifications which were the same as those on the Falcon Heavy page, which are at least supported by a (broken) reference link.
These were replaced with substantially different numbers for EG 2nd stage propellant. There appears to be absolutely no citation for the new numbers. (Am I missing something?)
Addtionally, diameter was previously listed correctly as 3.66m, and has now been "improved" to 3.7m.
What is the justification for such a large change to the specifications without support by link to a reference source? MP99 (talk) 12:15, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
- Supporting this - the ~93t prop figure is for a very old version of F9US according to this:
- https://web.archive.org/web/20220406013729/https://www.spacelaunchreport.com/falcon9ft.html MP99 (talk) 19:38, 4 October 2023 (UTC)
- I came here to post the same link.
- ISTM the previous version needs to be reverted, as it is clearly closer to the true values.
- Thanks. MP99 (talk) 12:22, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
Add A Fact: "California rejects increase in SpaceX launches"
[edit]I found a fact that might belong in this article. See the quote below
The Space Force had sought to increase the number of launches of SpaceX’s flagship Falcon 9 rocket from 36 to 50 per year out of California. But on Thursday, the California Coastal Commission denied the bid in a 6-4 vote, pointing to its previous requests for the military and SpaceX to mitigate the disruptive sonic booms caused by the rockets and to keep a closer eye on the operations’ effects on the state’s wildlife.
The fact comes from the following source:
This post was generated using the Add A Fact browser extension.
TJMSmith (talk) 16:44, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
Wrong launch tally
[edit]As of November 4 the total launch tally says 390 but shouldn't it be 388? 2010: 2, 2012: 2, 2013: 3, 2014: 6, 2015: 7, 2016: 8, 2017: 18, 2018: 20, 2019: 11, 2020: 26, 2021: 31, 2022: 60, 2023: 91, 2024: 103 (so far)
That's 388 in total. Am I missing something? Lomicto (talk) 01:35, 4 November 2024 (UTC)
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