Talk:Aluminium: Difference between revisions
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{{Archive box|title=Spelling archives|auto=long|root=Talk:Aluminium/Spelling|search=no|Please, start new discussions about spelling at [[/Spelling]].}} |
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== Semi-protected edit request on |
== Semi-protected edit request on 7 August 2024 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Aluminium|answered=yes}} |
{{edit semi-protected|Aluminium|answered=yes}} |
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The boiling point of Aluminum is stated to be 2743 K but it should be 2793 K. |
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'''Background/Evidence''' Hi! In the Etymology section, under Spelling, source #123 is cited for the line "''In 1925, the American Chemical Society adopted this spelling''"[In reference to Aluminum vs Aluminium]. Source #123, unfortunately, is not primary, nor does it cite a primary source. Source #129 makes a similar claim about the ACS 1925 thing, but is also A) Secondary, and B) Sourceless. |
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Sources: |
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[https://webbook.nist.gov/cgi/inchi?ID=C7429905&Mask=4#ref-1 NIST] |
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[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00503647 This paper] [[User:Seeenman|Seeenman]] ([[User talk:Seeenman|talk]]) 05:02, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Seeenman}} {{not done}}. That 2743 K value comes from this<ref>{{cite journal |doi= 10.1021/je1011086 |title=Corrected Values for Boiling Points and Enthalpies of Vaporization of Elements in Handbooks |url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231538496 |last1=Zhang |first1=Yiming |last2=Evans |first2=Julian R. G. |last3=Yang |first3=Shoufeng |journal=J. Chem. Eng. Data |year=2011 |volume=56 |issue=2 |pages=328–337}}</ref>, which is newer (2011) than the sources you given (1987–1988). --[[User:Nucleus hydro elemon|Nucleus hydro elemon]] ([[User talk:Nucleus hydro elemon|talk]]) 15:14, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
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::Ah thanks. Perhaps that could be added as a reference on the page? Something like |
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::2743 K (2470 °C, 4478 °F)<ref>{{cite journal |doi= 10.1021/je1011086 |title=Corrected Values for Boiling Points and Enthalpies of Vaporization of Elements in Handbooks |url=https://www.researchgate.net/publication/231538496 |last1=Zhang |first1=Yiming |last2=Evans |first2=Julian R. G. |last3=Yang |first3=Shoufeng |journal=J. Chem. Eng. Data |year=2011 |volume=56 |issue=2 |pages=328–337}}</ref> [[User:Seeenman|Seeenman]] ([[User talk:Seeenman|talk]]) 16:41, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:::{{done}} [[User:Nucleus hydro elemon|Nucleus hydro elemon]] ([[User talk:Nucleus hydro elemon|talk]]) 22:33, 7 August 2024 (UTC) |
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::::Thanks! [[Special:Contributions/169.233.202.227|169.233.202.227]] ([[User talk:169.233.202.227|talk]]) 22:55, 8 August 2024 (UTC) |
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After doing my own digging, I have found the *actual* earliest use of 'Aluminum' by the ACS: [https://pubs.acs.org/toc/jacsat/1/7 in it's 7th issue, published in June 1879]. After this, the ACS frequently accepts both -ium and -um, with, as far as I could find, no official publication on which it deems the 'official' spelling. In fact, the 1925 date seems like it might be made up anyway. The ''final'' use of Aluminium that I could find in the ACS journal database was in [https://pubs.acs.org/toc/jacsat/39/7 July of 1917]. |
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== reference removed, mouse≠person == |
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So, even if some sort of decree was made in 1925 making '''-um''' the official alumin-suffix of the ACS, it was symbolic at the point anyway. |
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'''Requested Edit:''' Change this portion: |
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> By 1890, both spellings had been common in the United States, the -ium spelling being slightly more common; by 1895, the situation had reversed; by 1900, aluminum had become twice as common as aluminium; in the next decade, the -um spelling dominated American usage. In 1925, the American Chemical Society adopted this spelling.[123] |
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To |
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> By 1890, both spellings had been common in the United States, the -ium spelling being slightly more common; by 1895, the situation had reversed; by 1900, aluminum had become twice as common as aluminium. The final use of aluminium by the American Chemical Society was in 1917 <ref>{{cite journal |title=THE ACTION OF ANHYDROUS ALUMINIUM CHLORIDE UPON UNSATURATED ORGANIC COMPOUNDS. II. |journal=Journal of the American Chemical Society |date=1 July 1917 |volume=39 |issue=7 |url=https://pubs.acs.org/toc/jacsat/39/7 |access-date=1 May 2023}}</ref> [[User:Fordfraipont|Fordfraipont]] ([[User talk:Fordfraipont|talk]]) 18:58, 1 May 2023 (UTC) |
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:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now:'''<!-- Template:ESp --> Contrary to your expectation, we prefer secondary sources and avoid [[WP:OR|original interpretation]] of primary sources on Wikipedia, even quite trivial interpretation! If you can find a secondary or tertiary source that supports the 1917 date, please link it and reopen this request. [[User:SmallJarsWithGreenLabels|small jars]] <small><code>[[User talk:SmallJarsWithGreenLabels|<b style="color:#270">t</b>]][[special:contributions/SmallJarsWithGreenLabels|<b style="color:#270">c</b>]]</code></small> 16:33, 4 May 2023 (UTC) |
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ref name="Ullmann" does not support "[[Aluminium sulfate]] has an [[Median lethal dose|LD<sub>50</sub>]] of 6207 mg/kg (oral, mouse), which corresponds to 435 grams (about one pound) for a 70 kg (150 lb) person." I've also changed person to mouse because toxicity is different in different species. |
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== Spellings == |
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:Unfortunately this leaves us trying to imagine a 70kg mouse. Perhaps it would be better to remove the relative clause entirely. [[Special:Contributions/80.6.246.2|80.6.246.2]] ([[User talk:80.6.246.2|talk]]) 16:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::I agree that extrapolating cross-species without a direct cite is a problem ([[WP:OR]]). Just state the LD50 as the ref supports it. [[User:DMacks|DMacks]] ([[User talk:DMacks|talk]]) 18:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC) |
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* People generally pronounce it the way it is spelt where they live (i.e. "aluminum" in the USA and sometimes in Canada, "aluminium" everywhere else). [[User_talk:Black Kite|Black Kite (talk)]] 19:44, 13 September 2023 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on |
== Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2024 == |
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{{edit semi-protected|Aluminium|answered=yes}} |
{{edit semi-protected|Aluminium|answered=yes}} |
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In the section titled "Earth" under the natural occurrence tab it's stated that "Aluminium also occurs in seawater at a concentration of 2 μg/kg." when I went to the referenced material [33] I wasn't able to find that value. If this could be double checked and adjusted if need be, that would be great. I also got a separate average concentration of sea water as 0.42 µg/L with a standard deviation of 0.70 µg/L (or 0.41 µg/kg with a standard deviation of 0.68 µg/kg) from a more recent study in 2020.(https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/marine-science/articles/10.3389/fmars.2020.00468/full#T2) These values can be found on table two and are measured in nanomoles, but should convert over. [[User:Xcl-aspiringscientist|Xcl-aspiringscientist]] ([[User talk:Xcl-aspiringscientist|talk]]) 03:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC) |
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Change<br> > aluminum: /əˈlumənəm/ |
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:{{Done}}, cheers for doing the converting [[User:Cmrc23|<span style="text-shadow: -1px -1px 2px #fee6b8, 1px -1px 2px #fedd63, -1px 1px 2px #d56300, 1px 1px 2px #623804; color: #4a2a02;">'''Cmrc23''' ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ</span>]] 09:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC) |
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to:<br> > aluminum: /əˈlu'''ː'''mənəm/ |
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== [[Reynolds Wrap]] == |
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Reason: [[Help:IPA/English]] specifically states that /u/ occurs only in ''unstressed'' positions. [[Special:Contributions/2A00:1FA0:88F:AC2D:0:49:9156:3001|2A00:1FA0:88F:AC2D:0:49:9156:3001]] ([[User talk:2A00:1FA0:88F:AC2D:0:49:9156:3001|talk]]) 21:17, 19 October 2023 (UTC) |
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Is it sold in England? If so, which way do they label it? ←[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]] <sup>''[[User talk:Baseball Bugs|What's up, Doc?]]''</sup> [[Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs|carrots]]→ 03:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:{{done}}<!-- Template:ESp --> ''[[User:Philroc|<span style="color: #009933; text-shadow: 0px 0px 7px #83D29D;">Philroc</span>]]'' ([[User talk:Philroc|talk]]) 08:27, 23 October 2023 (UTC) |
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::[[User:Baseball Bugs|Baseball Bugs]], sort of. You can buy Reynolds wrap from global sellers such as Amazon, but there's no need, and the vast majority of the UK just buy generic aluminium foil from the supermarket - Sainsbury's, Asda, Morrisons, Lidl, etc - which is less than half the price of Reynolds Wrap according to a quick google search. I'd never heard of the Reynolds Wrap brand until I saw this question. |
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::As to the second part of the question - {{tpq|which way do they label it}} I've resisted the urge to be facetious, and you'll have to clarify what you mean? [[User:Chaheel Riens|Chaheel Riens]] ([[User talk:Chaheel Riens|talk]]) 08:15, 30 December 2024 (UTC) |
Latest revision as of 08:15, 30 December 2024
For discussion regarding spelling please use Talk:Aluminium/Spelling. |
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Semi-protected edit request on 7 August 2024
[edit]This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The boiling point of Aluminum is stated to be 2743 K but it should be 2793 K. Sources: NIST This paper Seeenman (talk) 05:02, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Seeenman: Not done. That 2743 K value comes from this[1], which is newer (2011) than the sources you given (1987–1988). --Nucleus hydro elemon (talk) 15:14, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Ah thanks. Perhaps that could be added as a reference on the page? Something like
- 2743 K (2470 °C, 4478 °F)[2] Seeenman (talk) 16:41, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
References
- ^ Zhang, Yiming; Evans, Julian R. G.; Yang, Shoufeng (2011). "Corrected Values for Boiling Points and Enthalpies of Vaporization of Elements in Handbooks". J. Chem. Eng. Data. 56 (2): 328–337. doi:10.1021/je1011086.
- ^ Zhang, Yiming; Evans, Julian R. G.; Yang, Shoufeng (2011). "Corrected Values for Boiling Points and Enthalpies of Vaporization of Elements in Handbooks". J. Chem. Eng. Data. 56 (2): 328–337. doi:10.1021/je1011086.
reference removed, mouse≠person
[edit]ref name="Ullmann" does not support "Aluminium sulfate has an LD50 of 6207 mg/kg (oral, mouse), which corresponds to 435 grams (about one pound) for a 70 kg (150 lb) person." I've also changed person to mouse because toxicity is different in different species.
Darsie42 (talk) 10:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Unfortunately this leaves us trying to imagine a 70kg mouse. Perhaps it would be better to remove the relative clause entirely. 80.6.246.2 (talk) 16:06, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
- I agree that extrapolating cross-species without a direct cite is a problem (WP:OR). Just state the LD50 as the ref supports it. DMacks (talk) 18:55, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 27 November 2024
[edit]This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the section titled "Earth" under the natural occurrence tab it's stated that "Aluminium also occurs in seawater at a concentration of 2 μg/kg." when I went to the referenced material [33] I wasn't able to find that value. If this could be double checked and adjusted if need be, that would be great. I also got a separate average concentration of sea water as 0.42 µg/L with a standard deviation of 0.70 µg/L (or 0.41 µg/kg with a standard deviation of 0.68 µg/kg) from a more recent study in 2020.(https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/marine-science/articles/10.3389/fmars.2020.00468/full#T2) These values can be found on table two and are measured in nanomoles, but should convert over. Xcl-aspiringscientist (talk) 03:53, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
- Done, cheers for doing the converting Cmrc23 ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ 09:27, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Is it sold in England? If so, which way do they label it? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Baseball Bugs, sort of. You can buy Reynolds wrap from global sellers such as Amazon, but there's no need, and the vast majority of the UK just buy generic aluminium foil from the supermarket - Sainsbury's, Asda, Morrisons, Lidl, etc - which is less than half the price of Reynolds Wrap according to a quick google search. I'd never heard of the Reynolds Wrap brand until I saw this question.
- As to the second part of the question -
which way do they label it
I've resisted the urge to be facetious, and you'll have to clarify what you mean? Chaheel Riens (talk) 08:15, 30 December 2024 (UTC)
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