Talk:The Ashes

Foreign relations

I believe that the rivalry started because of underlying political relations. I find it hard to believe that the governments of the two countries allowed the manifestation of the situation. I do believe that relations between the two nations were cooler than normal. Just as the India-Pakistan rivalry wouldn't have been had such ramifications as it does today, had the two nations not gone to war in the past. We need to cover the political relations at the start.  =Nichalp (Talk)= 11:53, May 29, 2005 (UTC)

Foreign relations

It is doubtful if the ashes commenced because of difficulties in the Anglo-Australian relationship. However, the Ashes have on occassions had the potential to worsen the relationship.

Two examples. 1. The body line series when the Australian board of control considered asking the English to leave and diplomatic messages were allegedly sent to defuse the situation.

2. Prior to the Ashes during an English tour in 1879(?), in an England vs NSW match, the umpire (Edmund Barton, who coincidentally was to become the first prime minister) turned down an English appeal. A section of the crowd heard an English fieldsman say " what do you expect from a group of convicts" (a very touchy subject in C19 Australia). A riot ensued and it was only due to the efforts of Barton that a diplomatic situation did not develop.--Porturology 00:40, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Note that there are very good articles about both of these at Bodyline and Sydney Riot of 1879. --Ngb 08:47, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Porturology is slightly wrong here. The riot started after George Coulthard, Barton's fellow umpire, gave Australian batsman Billy Murdoch out "run out". It was a close (but correct) decision, jguk 19:01, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Lifted from my talk page:

I don't think there was any hostility between Australians and British in the 1870s. The majority of Australians were British by birth and most of the rest regarded themselves as British by blood and by loyalties. Most Anglo-Australians were Empire loyalists, the only significant exception to this was the Irish minority. I don't think your thesis will hold water in this instance. In any case I've never seen any suggestion that sporting relations between Britain and the Australian colonies were anything other than friendly. Adam 12:36, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Opinion of Adam. I guess that relations were warm.  =Nichalp (Talk)= 18:19, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

The main hostility in the 1870s was between Victoria and New South Wales. The riot in Sydney did damage England/Australian cricket relations - but these were repaired by the end of the next Aussie tour to Britain, jguk 19:01, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Peer review

I've put this article in Peer review so that we can get some more eyeballs on this page in its goal to become a featured article.  =Nichalp (Talk)= 11:52, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

Botham's picture

unrelated: botham's pic doesn't show. --Peripatetic 23:38, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Are you using Zonealarm to block ads?  =Nichalp (Talk)= 05:02, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

2005 series

Considering that the imminent series was one of the reasons that the article was put forward as hopefully moving towards featured article status, it's suprising there's nothing here yet about Australia in England in 2005, other than one sentence at the end of the Steve Waugh section. Admittedly it hasn't started yet but surely there's a bit to say! - Ian 14:10, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC) Please ignore. I re-read and found the Ashes Today section - but maybe it could be a bit expanded. Ian 14:35, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Venues

Shouldn't we put all the six venues in England ? Tintin 11:01, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"Great" players

A fairly minor issue in an excellent article I admit, but I take issue with Damien Martyn and Justin Langer being included as "Great Australian players" in the 1990s section, althoguh undoubtably very good players they are not greats, and there can be no justification for including either of them ahead of Matthew hayden who is clearly better than both. Similarly, Langer is later referred to alongside McGrath and Warne as "three of Australia's greatest cricketers". And finally, what's so unorthodox about Shane Warne?