Talk:Ninth generation of video game consoles

Bias against Nintendo

Sounds like this article is biased since Nintneod Switch is 8th gneerstion its supposed to compete with xbox s xbox x and ps5 also nintendo already had a wii u as its 8th gen console so the switch is its 9th gen console 71.241.133.136 (talk) 02:18, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Rather than cooking up baseless theories, try reading up on the past discussions in the talk page archives. Sergecross73 msg me 02:54, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Switch Lite as a Ninth Generation Console

Console generations are usually defined based on the other consoles that they compete against. And although the Switch is indeed competing the Eight/Ninth Generations, the Switch Lite is not really on that same market.

Taking into consideration that it is a handheld-only console, it should be compared with the other handhelds. And it does not compete with the 3DS nor the Vita, which are the main handheld consoles of the eight generation. And the same holds true when comparing it with all the other handhelds of the eighth generation: Neo Geo X, GCW Zero, Nvidia Shield Portable, etc, as the Switch Lite does not compete against any of those. In that sense, it should be actually considered the first handheld for the ninth generation.

And now we are seeing a boom in handheld consoles again, with the Switch Lite being its precursor, but also with other handhelds such as the Steam Deck (+ other Linux/Windows-based ones), Ayn Odin (+ other Android), and even smaller players like the Playdate, the Evercade (+EXP), the Analogue Pocket, that can be considered ninth generation, as they also don't compete in the same market generation of the 3DS or the Vita, or the other smaller players of that generation.

It may be a little difficult to think about it in that way because Sony, which was the other big player in the handheld market, completely gave up on it right after launching the Vita, and Nintendo was left without almost no real competition other than the Android/Windows-based handhelds that are coming now. So I would say that the article for the ninth generation should be organised to include some handheld consoles as the previous ones did, starting with the Switch Lite (moving it from the eighth), and maybe including some others.

As a side note: We have an example of a handheld version of a home consoles in the past in different generations, with the Sega Nomad being a fifth generation console, while its original home console (Sega Genesis) was released a few years before in the fourth generation. Imperadors (talk) 10:25, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

But it's literally the same thing as a regular Switch, only with a smaller screen and controllers that don't detach. The industry absolutely doesn't treat it as a separate thing from a separate generation. Sergecross73 msg me 11:55, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

It is neither sustainable nor understandable to maintain a Switch as an eighth generation console.

Let's calculate how long the switch has been competing with the 8th generation and with the 9th generation,

PS4 and XONE VS Switch: 3 years and 4 months

PS5 and XSeries VS Switch: 2 years and 8 months

As of April next year, the Switch will have spent more time competing against PS5 and Xbox Series as Nintendo's primary console, with no successor on the market, than it has against PS4 and Xbox ONE.

When that happens, it will be extremely awkward to have Switch as an 8th generation console, Switch's competitor in 2021, in 2022, in 2023 and in 2024 was PS5 and XSeries, not PS4 and XONE. 2.137.216.146 (talk) 17:19, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Please read up in some of the past discussions here and at the 8th gen article for a better grasp at all the factors at play here. Sergecross73 msg me 18:51, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

The only people who don't seem to have a grasp of the current console market are you and Masem. 182.18.225.7 (talk) 11:20, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia's consensus-building approach does not allow for such a situation. Masem and I are merely the only ones who take the time to respond to every half-baked proposal on this talk page. Sergecross73 msg me 14:26, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Proposal for a vote on the inclusion of the Nintendo Switch on the comparison chart

It appears that the Nintendo Switch is considered to be both an 8th and 9th generation system [1]. I would like to propose a vote to be held to determine if the Switch should be included in the ninth generation comparison for home consoles and handhelds. This would be the first time that a system would be compared on two different generation pages so I think it is prudent that a vote is held on this as it will affect how any future systems straddling generations will be handled. 142.161.119.190 (talk) 22:18, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

No, the Switch is not comparable in its tech specs to include here. We do not say it is both an 8th and 9th gen, only that it does compete with the 9th gen consoles. Masem (t) 22:30, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Tech specs has never been a major factor in considering which generation a console is. How young are you not to know this? Jesus. 130.105.183.143 (talk) 03:22, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Hello. You're responding to a 16 month old conversation. If you have anything constructive to contribute, I'd recommend starting a new section up. Or at least jumping into a more active and not out of date one. Sergecross73 msg me 03:44, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

No, it's not up to a popular vote, it's up to what reliable sources most commonly say. Sergecross73 msg me 23:45, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Maybe. I think only the OLED model should be considered. That said, if Nintendo releases a successor to the Switch, it should be in the table, not the OLED model. Also, the Nintendo Switch Lite is less capable than the regular Switch. --LABcrabs (talk) 13:41, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

There's absolutely no sourcing that supports that. No one considers the different models part of different generations. Sergecross73 msg me 14:02, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Maybe. Because the Switch does compete with the ninth gen, and is outselling it, there is definitely merit to including it. However, because, per sources ,it probably belongs with the 8th gen, I don't know if there's a good way to do it here without endorsing a stance. You'd need a big 'ol asterisk and probably want it hidden by default somehow, and I don't know that there's a good way to do that within the limitations of wikipedia tables.

I will say, that because it competes so directly with the 9th gen, there's a solid academic argument for including it. If someone wants to compare current options, it's janky to have to compare two tables on different pages. Since the best seller (total units) is switch... you'd want to see it included. Darkage7_[Talk] 19:22, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

I think if we want the gens to have any meaning it should be based on release date and nothing else. As Tech has gotten to a point where there are reasons to release a Console that is not competitive on spec. Thus there is no good reason to split it over two gen especially it came out 4 years before the other 2 consoles in this gen. We also should not include the OLED model as that would create problems as we haven't categorized any other reversion of consoles as a different gen than the original Version. GonzoBlue (talk) 17:41, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what we want, we follow what reliable sources say. Anything else is original research. —  HELLKNOWZ ∣ TALK 17:51, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2023

41.7 million (as of 30 June 2023) GonzoBlue (talk) 17:31, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. You haven't provided what should be changed. Millows! | 🪧 19:02, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

References

Restore

Can you restore the old revisions of this page from May 2016 to June 2016? 174.27.188.30 (talk) 23:14, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

The article didn't exist until late July 2016. Sergecross73 msg me 23:36, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

They are referring to the deleted revisions. 2A02:9B0:405C:5B23:BCD0:8F23:45DA:9B0D (talk) 02:53, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

The only thing that page said before it was deleted was, in its entirety, "The Ninth generation of video game consoles is the theoretical pairing of recent console announcements by Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo. These consoles include Project Scorpio (Microsoft), Playstation Neo (Sony), and the Nintendo NX (Nintendo)." eg not at all helpful. Masem (t) 03:44, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Switch as a Ninth Gen - FTC Leak and the Reliability of the Sources Argument

Microsoft/Xbox has unfortunately failed to redact a lot of important files for the ongoing FTC case. This includes an email about Microsoft deliberately avoiding to name the Switch as a console. They clarified their intention as an attempt to decrease competition with Xbox Series X (referred to as Scarlett in the email) and PS5: https://twitter.com/ethangach/status/1703776402393182237

Edit: Adding imgur link in case the twitter post gets taken down - https://i.imgur.com/cz526Gd.png

In this case, doesn't this call into question Wikipedia's policy about how a video game generation should be defined? Wikipedia relies on "reliable" sources to define the generation and the current situation is that journalists and competitors alike don't see Switch as a competitor the current gen consoles. However, with the above leak, we can see that this isn't exactly an organic or spontaneous development. We can't speak for Sony or other third-party sources, but Microsoft themselves have a lot of influence in the industry. They specifically planned this. It's a marketing stunt to disincentivize consumers from viewing the Switch as a competitive console and even buying into its ecosystem. Who knows how far they've gone to discourage others from doing the same?

In that case, isn't it hard to argue that there are reliable sources for why Switch isn't a Ninth gen? When one source, arguably one of the biggest one at that, specifically did it for their own advantage? And their actions have an effect on the rest of the industry? Wikipedia's biggest policy loophole is that it allows the industry to manipulate sources. We rely on the industry to define the gen? But if some of the players define it in a way to benefit themselves? And not because they genuinely don't believe the consoles are part of the same gen? Isn't Wikipedia's adamant support on excluding the Switch from ninth gen comparisons basically playing into the hand of corporations like Microsoft? Helping them achieve their business plan to make more money by making Switch less competitive against other ninth gens? Can we prove that the sources are truly "reliable" and not affected by Microsoft's plan? How does the intention of the competitors play into this? Do we ignore Microsoft's intention?

Admins here have been debating about Switch's status for years, but the leak only shows that this type of reaction was planned by Microsoft in the first place. It's hard to say that the idea to put Switch as an 8th gen isn't tainted. I can already imagine the VP of Xbox, Aaron Greenberg (as seen in the leaked email), to be laughing at the discourse right here as Admins did exactly what Microsoft wanted. Samhiuy (talk) 08:32, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

I've seen a lot of strange arguments on these talk pages, but "Xbox Execs are reading your talk page arguments and laughing at you" is probably a new low... Sergecross73 msg me 10:57, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

We know there are industries that also control most of the media associated with them as to manipulate perceptions (like in cryptocurrency, and we have taken steps to consider most of that unreliable) but there's zero indication that the video game industry is doing this to manipulate what WP says. Masem (t) 12:24, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

PS5 Slim internal Storage

The PS5 slim has 1TB of internal Storage, instead of 825GB of original model. 2804:1B3:A541:C9B6:5128:DA6C:868F:D08D (talk) 21:18, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

There's additional differences that we know exist but as this hasn't shipped yet, it doesn't make sense to add the Slim models yet until we have full tech specs. But yes, this does include the 1TB increase. Masem (t) 23:48, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

IGN source

https://www.ign.com/articles/when-is-the-ps6-release-date-speculation

Could be useful for the article - talks about the generations some, talks about "Switch being successful across 2 generations, which reinforces our current set up, etc. Sergecross73 msg me 19:36, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

IGN is as reliable as a source as any wikipedian here. Alcabcucu (talk) 06:18, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Not really sure what this is supposed to mean. IGN is a reliable source. "Wikipedians" themselves, are not. Wikipedians write Wikipedia articles and provide the sources, but they are not the sources themselves. They only write according to what sources say.

Regardless, this was already implemented 2 months ago shortly after I added this here. Sergecross73 msg me 15:10, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

This means that Matt Kim's comment about "Nintendo Switch being successful across 2 generations" in a random article from IGN in which he talks about the PS5 successor cannot be considered a reliable source.

The issue of Nintendo Switch being an 8th or 9th generation console will not be solved using this kind of source material.

In any case, it seems pretty obvious that right many reliable sources begin to consider Nintendo Switch as a 9th generation console and this article should be corrected accordingly. Alcabcucu (talk) 16:14, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

People say this, and yet, they never provide any reliable sources showing it. -- ferret (talk) 16:49, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

https://hackernoon.com/the-ninth-generation-console-war-who-is-winning

This is as reliable as the article posted by Sergecross73. Alcabcucu (talk) 20:20, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

It... absolutely is not. It fails almost all the hallmarks of WP:RS. It's a group blog site without editorial control. -- ferret (talk) 20:25, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I respect Wikipedia rules for reliable sources. Unfortunately, when referring to videogame web sites, editorial control is as good as the one there is in blogs or any other non "official" sites.

But I completely understand we need to respect and use the WP rules. In any case, I just was trying to share some thoughts about the article from IGN. And, in fact, I do not think the article reinforces the actual set up, as Sergecross73 states in his message.

Best regards, and have a good noght. Alcabcucu (talk) 20:50, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Hackernoon is a blog where anyone can sign up and submit information. It's fails WP:USERG. The IGN article was written by a senior editor of a major entertainment website. They're simply nothing alike. Sergecross73 msg me 20:54, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I think you should take the time to learn how Wikipedia evaluates source reliability. Once you learn that, you'll see how far that is from being a reliable, usable source on Wikipedia. It's not even close. Sergecross73 msg me 20:38, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

That is incorrect, IGN is absolutely a reliable source. They have a long-standing WP:CONSENSUS at WP:VG/S for being usable. You can't just hand wave that away by vaguely alluding to other evidence you don't even bother to provide. Sergecross73 msg me 18:07, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

While IGN is reliable, I have to question whether this particular article is. It seems to be more of an opinion piece/blog than a proper news article. For example, the paragraph talking about the Switch starts with "My gut tells me that we’re in a bit of uncharted territory right now." ~~ Jessintime (talk) 18:29, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I dont even know where to begin with this. For starters, it's not just some blog, it was written by IGN's Senior Features Editor. Even beyond that, I mean, realistically, what sort of reporting are you expecting here? Scientists to go into a lab, perform some tests, and give us the calculations that add up to 8 or 9? The generations are not some objective, actual thing. It's a loose classification system that tries to create an organization for a disparate group of hardware. Any RS reporting on it is going to be an opinion of sorts. Sergecross73 msg me 19:10, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I do not think that Matt Kim was even aware of his words when he wrote this part of the article. He was just adressing another topic and included this random thought as a way to reinforce the idea of this being a weird generation.

In any case, things are changing. At least now some people begin to accept that Nintendo Switch is "also" a 9th generation console. Alcabcucu (talk) 20:37, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

It's ludicrous to baselessly assert that a Senior Editor from a major mainstream website is not "aware of his words". Sergecross73 msg me 20:40, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

It is also ludicrous to baselessly assert that the article from IGN reinforces the current set up. In fact, from a strict point of view, it says that Nintendo Switch should be considered a videogame console from the present generation.

But more ludicrous it is, in my humble opinion, to consider this specific article as a reliable source.

In any case, I was just trying to share some thoughts. And being an admin and all, Sergecross73, I would apreciate you used a friendlier tone when answering other users' messages.

Thanks a lot. Alcabcucu (talk) 20:57, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

You haven't raised a single specific concern how the IGN source is actually implemented in the article, or the actual prose written in the article from it, nor have you addressed how multiple other sources are used to verify the same sentiment. So forgive me when it really just feels like you're flailing to discredit a source you don't personally agree with.

I'm generally sympathetic to newbies and try to help them get up to speed. But its irritating when people come in and start lecturing others when its very clear they do not understand Wikipedia's standards or polices, and don't seem particularly interested in learning them. Sergecross73 msg me 21:04, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Well, I'm very sorry for irritating you. I just hope next time you will not get irritated so easily.

I have raised very specific concerns: the link you posted does not reinforce the current set up. You are basing that assumption on a single line of an article that adresses a completely different topic and Matt Kim does not give a single argument to defend his statement.

You also fail to explain why the article reinforces the current set up. In fact, as i already said, I think it just does the opposite.

But as an admin you are clearly imposing your point of view and I will have to accept it.

Don't worry, I won't disturb you again.

Best regards. Alcabcucu (talk) 21:21, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Just to clarify, since you again have failed to do your research - the only this I have done was drop a link to an IGN article on this talk page saying "this could be useful". I did not add it to the article or write any of the prose. Sergecross73 msg me 21:32, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Then why don't you remove the Switch in the 8th generation chart? Or conversely, add it on the 9th gen one, if it's overlapping both gens? The current setup makes it clear you are advocating the Switch as an 8th generation system. 130.105.183.143 (talk) 03:27, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Just wanted to include some sources that consider that Nintendo Switch is a ninth gen console

Just wanted to add a few source material in which it is said that Nintendo Switch is a 9th generation console.

I do not know if these will be considered as reliable sources: hobbyconsolas appears in the RS:WP article. Xataka is a reliable source in the Spanish wikipedia, and Mundodiario and La Republica are well known newspapers.

https://www.hobbyconsolas.com/opinion/estamos-jugando-verdad-nueva-generacion-984883

"Se supone que ahora mismo, algunos privilegiados están jugando con la novena generación de consolas, una generación que, en realidad, inició Switch allá por 2017. "

"It is assumed that right now, some privileged people are playing with the ninth generation of consoles, a generation that, in fact, started with Switch back in 2017."

https://www.xataka.com/videojuegos/guerra-consolas-esta-generacion-playstation-5-casi-duplica-a-xbox-series-switch-sigue-inalcanzable

"Ya nos vamos acercando, mes arriba mes abajo, al ecuador de esta generación de consolas. Las dos específicamente de sobremesa, Playstation 5 y los dos modelos de Xbox Series debutaron hace tres años y un mes.

Acompañándoles, alguien que siempre cabalga por su cuenta en cualquier aspecto, Nintendo, que lanzó la Switch tres años antes... y cuyas ventas siguen inalcanzables para cualquier otra consola."

"We are already approaching, month up month down, the halfway point of this generation of consoles. The two specifically desktop ones, Playstation 5 and the two Xbox Series models debuted three years and one month ago. Accompanying them, someone who always rides on his own in any aspect, Nintendo, which launched the Switch three years earlier... and whose sales remain unattainable for any other console."

https://www.mundiario.com/articulo/sociedad/novena-generacion-videoconsolas-estrena-nintendo-switch/20170123172421077003.html

"La novena generación de videoconsolas se estrena con Nintendo Switch."

"The ninth generation of video game consoles debuts with Nintendo Switch."

https://www.larepublica.co/internet-economy/nintendo-switch-continua-siendo-la-consola-mas-vendida-durante-este-ano-3409407

"La novena generación de consolas trajo al mercado desde 2017 nuevas propuestas al mundo de los videojugadores."

"The ninth generation of consoles brought new proposals to the market since 2017 to the world of video gamers."

Please forgive me if you consider that these are not reliable sources. I'll keep looking for more material in other languages. Alcabcucu (talk) 11:20, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Until you understand how to identify reliable sources in the Wikipedia sense, you can use WP:VG/S to help you figure out which sources are usable or unusable. If a source isn't in the list, it's probably not exactly a strong enough source to do something important like defining an entire generation of an industry. Sergecross73 msg me 12:07, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

I think all the sources I mentioned are reliable in the Wikipedia sense. acording to WP:VG/S and WP:RS.

Thanks for your piece of advice. I will continue searching for more reliable sources. Alcabcucu (talk) 12:27, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

That was not the correct takeaway from my advice. HobbyConsolas is the only source listed at VG/S, and your quote is a bit cherry picked, the overall context of the article is about a lot of uncertainty with the generations system on a whole. Bluffing your way through this isn't going to work. Sergecross73 msg me 12:30, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

I'm not bluffing. I'm being honest with my answer and, if I am wrong, I will gladly be corrected.

Hobby Consolas appears as a reliable source in WP:VG/S

Mundodiario and La Republica are important and well known newspapers in Colombia and Spain. According to WP:VG/S "Sources that otherwise are considered reliable sources in general, such as newspapers like The New York Times and The Wall Street Journal, magazines like Time and Fortune, and news networks like BBC and CNN, are also reliable for coverage of topics related to video games when they do report on these topics."

And finally Xataka, which is very similar to TechRadar but in Spanish, and it is considered a reliable source in the Spanish Wikipedia. WP: VG/S states that the list "is not meant to be exhaustive and only covers works that regularly report on video games and the industry". Xataka is more oriented to all kind of new tech but they also talk about videogames on a general basis. Alcabcucu (talk) 12:50, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

By the way, the line from the article from Hobby Consolas is not cherry-picked. It is the first line of the article and a statement of intents. In fact, the general conclusion of the article is that, being as difficult as it is to define a new generation of consoles, Nintendo Switch, unlike PS5 and Xbox Series, stands out as a console that makes a step forward towards different ways of gaming.

"Así, Nintendo Switch sí supuso una evolución en la manera de jugar con su formato híbrido, mejoró notablemente la tecnología de Wii U y su concepto supuso paso adelante para la industria.

PS5 y Xbox Series X|S todavía tienen que demostrar cómo y cuánto van a cambiar nuestra forma de disfrutar videojuegos, aún tiene que demostrar cuánto de lejos nos puede llevar su tecnología, pero sí aportan la suficiente evolución para hablar de nueva generación.

Pero, ¿es la misma? ¿Nos toca repartir generaciones para cada marca? Sony y Microsoft parecen ir más paralelas (aunque las líneas se empiezan a separar) y Nintendo hace años, muchos años, se desmarcó de la tendencia. ¿Qué hacemos con Stadia?

Yo prefiero quedarme con la idea de cada cambio relevante es un cambio de generación. Como con los modelos de los coches, no basta cambiar el guardabarros para considerar un modelo de nueva generación, pero si hurgas en el motor y cambias el bastidor y haces cositas como en el Audi A4 Avant…"

"Thus, Nintendo Switch did represent an evolution in the way of playing with its hybrid format, it significantly improved the Wii U technology and its concept was a step forward for the industry. PS5 and Xbox have yet to demonstrate how and how much they are going to change our way of enjoying video games, they have yet to demonstrate how far their technology can take us, but they do provide enough evolution to speak of a new generation. But is it the same? Do we have to distribute generations for each brand? Sony and Microsoft seem to be more parallel (although the lines are beginning to separate) and Nintendo years, many years ago, distanced itself from the trend. What do we do with Stadia? I prefer to stick to the idea that each relevant change is a generation change. As with car models, it is not enough to change the fender to consider a new generation model, but if you dig into the engine and change the frame and do little things like in the Audi A4 Avant..." Alcabcucu (talk) 13:01, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

When sources that are normally outside the realm of video games make statements in contrast with sources normally associated with video games, we are likely to defer to the latter when there is a conflict. A point from that last quote is that in the video game industry "generations" are not based on tech changes directly but by commercialization and marketing. It's why we consider the Switch both in the Eighth and Ninth generations. I would be extremely hesitant saying the ninth Gen started with the switch given all the sources we have stating that the ninth cane with the ps5 andbXbox Series X/S. Masem (t) 15:13, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. Sergecross73 msg me 15:20, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Relevant tech changes are also marketing and commecialization. They always are. When Nintendo decided that Switch would be a hybrid machine, it was more a marketing decision than a technical decision. They decided that from a marketing point of view they would sale the product and position it on the global market as a hybrid console, and then they put the technical effort in order to make the product.

Hobby Consolas point of view is completely valid and in fact what Sonia Herranz does in her article is to specifically claim the right of Nintendo Switch to be considered -even more than PS5 or Xbox Series- a ninth generation device.

By the way, Hobby Consolas is a source that is completely related to videogames.

In any case, I am not trying to change anything right now. I am just adding new sources and perspectives in order to make us think about the current set-up of the article. Most sources, mainly from articles written in 2020, say that the 9th gen began that year. This is completely true, as it is also true that at that time Nintendo was completely ignored by the videogame press.

But things are begining to change and right now almost all sources consider that Switch lifecycle goes through both the 8th and the 9th generation. This is something that has no logical sense to me, but obviously sources have to be respected and my personal opinion is not relevant here.

Because of all this, I completely understand your hesitation to consider that the 9th gen began with Nintendo Switch, and I respect that.

Best regards. Alcabcucu (talk) 17:15, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Any major shifts are unlikely to happen until at least after the launch of the "Switch 2", which will no doubt inspire a lot new reliable source commentary on the state of the industry. Sergecross73 msg me 17:34, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

I completely agree with you here. Alcabcucu (talk) 17:55, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Journalists didn't ignore Nintendo or the Switch in 2020, but acknowledged it was on a wholly separate tragectory than MS or Sony from a tech standpoint. But it still remained the third console in the commercialization mix. — Masem (t) 17:45, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

I completely disagree. But this is a matter of opinion and it is not relevant here. Alcabcucu (talk) 17:56, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

"It's why we consider the Switch both in the Eighth and Ninth generations"

Obviously you don't, as you placed the Switch on the 8th gen chart but not on the 9th. 130.105.183.143 (talk) 03:31, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Switch is Clearly 9th Gen

• 1985 NES
• 1991 SNES
• 1996 N64 --------------- PS1
• 2001 Gamecube ------ PS2 ------- Xbox
• 2006 Wii ---------------- PS3 ------- Xbox 360
• 2012 Wii U ------------- PS4 ------- Xbox One
• 2017 Switch ----------- PS5 ------- Xbox Series

Nintendo typically leaves a console on the market for ~5 years. Time between Switch and Wii U roughly follows this as well. Wii U underperformed so Switch was released slightly earlier than normal (Spring instead of Holiday 2017). Dates shown are for Nintendo console release. 198.166.188.106 (talk) 20:47, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Feel free to peruse past discussions on this on this talk page and in the archives for more information on the debate on this over the years. Something as simple as this isn't going to change things. Sergecross73 msg me 20:53, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Add mention of Switch's successor in the 9th Gen?

For the description of Nintendo Switch in the Ninth Generation of consoles, we should add that "Nintendo anticipates announcing a successor console to the Switch by March 2025, at the end of its fiscal year." This information can be found at the top of the Nintendo Switch page.

The Switch's successor will most likely be part of the 9th Gen Consoles, to compete with the powers of PS5 and Xbox Series X/S. 190.232.74.110 (talk) 01:22, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

That's WP:NOT#CRYSTAL speculation. We'll wait to see when it is actually released and then how the media groups it. Yes, it is very likely to be bundled with the PS5 and XBXS families but we can't speculate in our writing like that. Masem (t) 01:45, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

We don't know where the Switch successor will fall yet. It took many years to figure out how to classify the Switch itself, and even with that, there's still always people complaining about it. It's too soon for this proposal. Sergecross73 msg me 12:30, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

There's so many arguments about the Switch being a 9th gen console that we may as well put that as an FAQ. Carlinal (talk) 16:58, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

No, Switch 2 will be the first 10th gen console. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.74.47.49 (talk) 20:23, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Citation needed. Sergecross73 msg me 20:53, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Updated photos of the X Series and PS5?

The pictures under "Comparison" seem to be early photos of the consoles and there are now official photos that would work better. 2600:1015:B114:18C0:A09A:93FF:FE40:6C6B (talk) 18:15, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

The official photos are not usable, since we have copyright free alternatives. -- ferret (talk) 18:17, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Just curious, why does this not apply to PS4 Xbone and Switch? 168.91.2.16 (talk) 17:49, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

It does. Our images for them are freely licensed pictures taken by editors. They are not official images. They just happen to be better images taken by someone who is a professional at it. That individual has not yet, to my knowledge, had an opportunity to photo the X Series or PS5. -- ferret (talk) 17:56, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Should Xbox Series X/S be listed before PS5 in both the comparison table and the "Home Consoles" section?

The Xbox Series X was both announced and released before the PS5 was. It was revealed in December 2019, while the PS5 was revealed in June 2020, and in terms of actual release the Xbox Series X made its debut on store shelves a few days before the PS5 did, so if we go off that order, the Xbox Series X should be the first one listed, especially in relation to articles compiling consoles of previous generations, where the individual consoles of that generation are listed in order of release, and same in the comparison table, from left to right based on which ones released first. Feel free to offer any point of contentions, but I feel based on precedent with the pages from older generations of consoles, the order in which the Xbox Series X/S and PS5 are listed and discussed in both the main page and the comparison table should be reversed, with the Xbox Series X/S first then the PS5 second. 71.163.84.17 (talk) 20:42, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

...why does it even matter...? Sergecross73 msg me 20:56, 7 August 2024 (UTC)

Missing PS5 Slim

In the chart going over home console for 9th generation it has PS5 digital and disc, along with ps5 pro but left out the slim versions of the models. When it came too storage Base (2020-22) Had Custom 825 GB And with the slim Slim (2023) 1 TB. Their Dimensions and Mass are also different. Doremon764 (talk) 13:03, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

Does it matter? It's essentially just a slightly smaller PS5... Sergecross73 msg me 16:24, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

That information is already included where relevant, as inline footnotes. No real reason a slim model should merit it's own column.Darkage7_[Talk] 03:06, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

like the PS4 Slim and the PS3 Slim, that's not any official name, simply just colloqualism coined by the industry and players to discuss a revision that had minimal hardware changes. I do see that PS4 slim is included on Eighth generation, while the PS3 slims are not listed on the Seventh gen, so I am going to remove the eighth gen column — Masem (t) 15:24, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Supported. Sergecross73 msg me 15:32, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

3O decline

3O Response: A request for a third opinion was recently submitted. However, there was no link to a specific discussion on this page, and the editor who filed the request doesn't appear to be involved in any discussions on this page that only have two parties involved. As such, I have procedurally declined the request. If there is an active dispute, editors are welcome to submit a more clear 3O request or pursue other forms of dispute resolution. DonIago (talk) 02:18, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Good call. While there's always an editor with some opinion on how this article is terribly different from their head canon, there's no specific argument going on at the moment. Sergecross73 msg me 02:32, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Well, thanks. I try! #citationneeded DonIago (talk) 13:42, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi Doniago,

I'm the user who asked for a third opinion. I wondered if there wasn't a case of WP:OWN as 2 users, Sergecross73 and MASEM, have been tirelessly reverting everyone during 5 years to not list the Nintendo Switch in this article. The way I understood the topic, generations are about periods of release, and the Switch timeline aligns better with those of PS5 and Xbox Series than it does with 3DS, Vita, Wii U, PS4 and Xbox One.

Categorizing the Switch as 8th gen may lead to a desynchronization of generations between manufacturers in the future, but as long as there's nothing official that may be too soon to tell. Metropolitan (talk) 21:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

sources have already raised the question if generations are even needed anymore during the transition to 9th. If the idea becomes desychnoized in the media, we will follow that. Masem (t) 21:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

It was rejected because you didn't even attempt to start a discussion about what you wanted. It doesn't appear you made any effort to learn how or when a 3O request should be filed. Any accusations of "OWN" would be tossed out on the same grounds (among others.) Sergecross73 msg me 21:17, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

Doniago, see how quick they were both to answer? Doesn't that feel suspicious? Hence my request for 3O. Metropolitan (talk) 21:25, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

The very fact that there are more than two people involved in a potential dispute (and I say potential because, as I said in my original response, no dispute was linked to at the time the request was filed) precludes this being an appropriate filing for WP:3O, which is explicitly intended for situations in which a third opinion is desired. As I said in my original post, you're welcome to pursue other forms of dispute resolution. I'm not sure why you're raising this almost two months after the original incident, but in answer to your question, they likely both have this page watchlisted and you edited it while they were monitoring their watchlists. If you're going to imply that they're the same person, WP:SPI is over thataway, but I wouldn't recommend it. What I would recommend is discussing your concerns about the article based on the merits of the arguments you might have favoring your perspectives, and including sources that substantiate your perspectives. DonIago (talk) 23:42, 8 November 2024 (UTC)

What sources claim that the Nintendo 3DS and the Nintendo Switch belong to the same console generation? There are none. So, on what basis are they grouped together on Wikipedia?

From a historical perspective, my main concern is that the innovating concept of hybrid console is poorly handled in these generational articles. The Switch is classified as a home console (see home consoles of the 8th generation), yet it's a lightweight portable device with an integrated screen and battery, key features of handheld consoles. This could be more thoughtfully written if other users were open to that.

In any case, I was seeking a third opinion, and you provided one. Apologies for my delayed response, I didn't realize you had added a section on this talk page after you reverted my 3O request. I hadn't seen it sooner. Thank you for taking the time to respond, I'm sure things will become clearer with time. Metropolitan (talk) 01:40, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Why in the world would a fast response time be suspicious? When being (wrongfully) accused of misconduct no less. Do you not understand how a WP:WATCHLIST works? Pretty disappointing you'd turn to casting aspersions rather than the slightest bit of introspection about how you yourself did virtually everything wrong in your approach to 3O. Sergecross73 msg me 01:03, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

In Metro's defense, they only have ~2300 edits under their belt and they may not be aware of the watchlist functionality. Let's assume good faith and focus on improving the article?

That said, I'm by no means a subject matter expert here and likely don't have much to contribute. I was happy to do a procedural decline on the 3O request, but if there had been a specific dispute for me to address, I would likely have deferred to another editor. DonIago (talk) 02:31, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm well aware of watchlist, but their response came within 7 minutes, suggesting they spend a lot of time on Wikipedia. Also you can notice Sergecross73 has been quite aggressive, only responding with ad hominem attacks. I assume that is because he knows the similarity of the Switch timeline with PS5/Series is a problem according to past arbitration on the topic.

Also that's not only about me, a quick ctrl+F shows 345 mentions on the Switch on this talk page, 70 replies from Sergecross73, 39 replies from MASEM, and this is only my 6th message. I'm certainly not the one pushing a personal agenda. I genuinely care about Wikipedia’s quality and raise concerns when I see possible issues. If you don’t consider there is, I respect your view. Metropolitan (talk) 12:17, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

It is not an "attack" to tell you that you didn't do your 3O correctly. It is not a problem to respond quickly or frequently at an article talk page. Stop fishing around for wrongdoing and move on. Either start a new discussion on how you'd like to specifically edit the article, or drop it. This line of arguing isn't going to get you anywhere. Sergecross73 msg me 13:27, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

Let me be more direct then I was in my last post here: I recommend that you read Wikipedia:Casting aspersions and move on. Your last comment had nothing to do with the content of the article. DonIago (talk) 16:00, 9 November 2024 (UTC)

What level of evidence will it take for Sergecross73 and Masem to accept Switch as a 9th gen console?

I have read a lot of the talk concerning Switch as a 9th gen console. I am not convinced of any of the current evidence that I have seen and would like to ask the two entities blocking this change to step up and put their cards onto the table as to what will it take for them to acquiesce. What amount or level of evidence or which source is required for them to accept something that many, myself included, see as an obvious item.

Now it's also obvious that this is controversial and there is disagreement. That said, on such matters you can establish a foothold on either side of the fence. Why is the single argument of (performance) the *only* argument being used to establish Switch as that gen when all the other evidence is contrary to it.

It cannot simply be 2 people and 1 performance argument being established as a consensus to a mountain of other evidence and many more people arguing to the contrary.

Switch has always been a 9th gen console. It was early. Nobody has ever published two different consoles with different underlying specs within the same generation. However, we have had misalignment between the window of beginning/end of generations. Playstation 5 Pro is not a new generation simply because it is more powerful. Xbox Series S is not an 8th generation console despite having performance worse than a stock Series X. Performance is flexible, so is relative architecture. However, once the internals of the system, the branding, compatibility changes - that my friends is a new generation.

I went fishing around in the previous generations and noticed something interesting:

The Sega Dreamcast launched 3 years before two other competitors in that generation. It two launched early because a previous successor failed in the market - The Sega Saturn, which also has the 3DO which launched 3 years before the N64 for example. The launch window argument is moot. There are early arrivals and late arrivals.

You have to address the Saturn->Dreamcast argument if you insist on Switch not being in a different generation despite distinct branding and distinct hardware.

If you two remain as barriers, I will have to look at ways on wikipedia to deal with such matters. 129.74.47.49 (talk) 20:37, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

WP:VG/S and WP:RSP approved sources backing the changes you want to make. Also, the Switch is covered here, for the record. Unless you dig up something new no one else has yet, coverage probably won't change until the Switch 2 reveal or release, where the industry will have to start framing its placement. Sergecross73 msg me 20:51, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Once I find sources are we then going to argue over who has the better sources? Which source is more popular, which source has more views? At that point isn't it just a popularity contest? This is video game news we are talking about with a very spotty track record for validity. Most of these sites are more promotion than news. I don't mind putting the work in, but I'd like for you to show your hand first. If I am just trying to convince *YOU*, then this isn't wikipedia, is it? This is your personal website. Who gets to override you? That is what I am sure this will have to take. 129.74.47.49 (talk) 20:56, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

See WP:V and WP:CONSENSUS. If you don't want to discuss sources, you're on the wrong website. Sergecross73 msg me 21:07, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

So what *YOU* are saying is that this argument cannot reach consensus using either logic or argument, but an argument about sources on a topic with no consensus. This is of course a waste of time.

Compromise is not the current setup. Compromise is Switch being in the 9th gen with a reference to *some* believing it should not be, not the other way around.

I went back and looked at the History of Video games page concerning generations. A lot of good material there. One of the requirements for a gen is hardware. There is a handy graphic showing each system listed under generations. Switch and Atari VCS (inexplicably) are listed for two generations. The *ONLY* two systems straddling more than one gen. If hardware architecture is one consideration for generations, a major one, then no system can be a member to more than one generation. That's a logical fallacy, because that would assume that the system had two different, but equally attributable hardware. The Switch hardware is singular, thus it must reside in one, and only one, hardware generation.

Moreover, no system, developed by the same platform holder with the different architecture, different naming, branding, games, developed over a 5 year delivery window (2012-2017) are considered the same hardware generation. That's common sense. That's logic. IGN cannot refute that, their opinion does not matter. Generations is a colloquial term. There is no authority. What we have is console history and the facts laid before us. And I am asking you to tell me which of these facts will it take to convince you?

The facts suggest Switch is more 9th gen than 8th (and Switch 2 will be the first 10th), based on all previous methods of consensus (see the Saturn vs. Dreamcast argument above - both different branding/architecture by the same manufacturer launching 3 years prior to other members within their generation - there are more examples). Switch is being treated unfairly in this regard. It is being singled out in this regard and I am asking you politely, sir/madam/they, what is it going to take for you to yield? Give me your threshold. Please be specific, so we can get it out in the open and discuss. If you are unable to be convinced, because you provide no threshold, than I will have no choice but to appeal higher up the chain. 129.74.47.49 (talk) 21:25, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Feel free to appeal to anyone you like - failing to provide any sort of sourcing is going to be a non-starter ever single time. Sergecross73 msg me 21:38, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

You should probably read the page about generations again. It is about how external sources group consoles together based on commercialization and technological advancement. It is not just because "manufacturer's console was in gen X, so their next console must be in gen X+1". We have plenty of sources that have routinely grouped the Switch among the 8th generation consoles -- and also have many sources that considered it alongside the 9th. But even now, we just have a fresh round of statements from Nintendo that they aren't chasing Sony or MS in console stregth, which pretty much aligns with the fact that Nintendo is not really what is driving any console generation definition, and their consoles now are going to fall across a couple different ones. — Masem (t) 12:41, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Again, if their consoles fall across different generations, then why put it in one generation chart and not another? Aren't you, then, being specifically explicit on which side it is on? 130.105.183.143 (talk) 03:38, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Nothing will convince them, and I highly recommend you taking this up with Wikipedia to get them removed from this article, if they do not wish to do so themselves. Let me know if you need support. They have drawn a hard line in the sand against ever changing their mind, and continuously fight with the vast majority of people who are in disagreement with them.

Looking through these comments, it is highly evident that they are extremely biased, and attempting to run this page like a dictatorship in which only sources that agree with them are "reliable", and anything that states the Switch is 9th gen is "unreliable". But if you do want reliable, then let's take any number of sales reports from 2024 showing the Switch in hard competition with the PS5 and Xbox Series. And then wait for them to declare that literally hard data is "unreliable", and we all need to take the word of Xboxfan69 who once said "The next generation is here!" way back in 2020 at the initial honeymoon period release of the system.

Most of these "sources", by the way, are just directly referencing this Wikipedia page, and then you re-quoting them back onto your page as a "source" you've just found. The only sane comment in this entire thread has been CuteCucumber saying this page should've been named "current consoles" until a consensus was actually formed by the gaming public, WITHOUT Wikipedia attempting to force the narrative on what should be declared "ninth gen". Unfortunately, this perfect encapsulation of the problem was then immediately shat upon by the usual suspects, and no lessons were learned and no apologies were given.

Both of them are clearly need to step down from this page immediately. If they believe that the masses also agree with them, then perfect, you should be perfectly free to leave, never come back, and these other supposed supporters will take up the fight for you. Your personal kingdom here will be completely fine. Because right now, all it looks like are that two people are trying to strongarm an encyclopedia page into agreeing with their own personal opinion. And Sergecross, in particular, shows a very high level of vitriol towards anyone with the dissenting opinion. 144.160.138.133 (talk) 00:01, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

That's really not how things work here. I'd recommend reading WP:DR, which outlines several options that you have. DonIago (talk) 00:16, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. Though I'm not really looking to force them out, just to ask them to take responsibility and willingly walk away. But if they continue to dig their heels into the sand and refuse to budge, it's good to know we have options. 144.160.138.142 (talk) 21:16, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

DR is not about trying to make editors walk away, it's about trying to reach consensus of all interested editors. And consensus itself is based on what reliable sources say, to avoid original research.

It's been clear that I've stated that once sreliae sources readily classify the switch as Ninth Gen the we can accept that, but we are now three years out from the launch of the PS5 and the XBX/S and I still do not see any reliable source that puts the Switch on that same generation. If there can be shown such sources then we'd be right to include it. That's the simple goal that has the be meet, not a hard line refusal. Masem (t) 21:46, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

See below. This is because YOU jumped the gun, and everybody is now quoting YOU as the authoritive standard. 144.160.138.142 (talk) 22:02, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I...don't think you have the timeline or the events correct here...but like usual, no evidence has been presented, so it's difficult to even parse, let alone refute. Sergecross73 msg me 22:09, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

No one's going to budge if you can't advance a policy-based path forward, and no one with a policy-based stance in their side is going to "walk away" or be forced to stop. Stop dwelling on these misguided accusations of wrong-doing and focus your energy on an argument that could actually garner a consensus. Sergecross73 msg me 22:01, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

No, YOU are not going to budge. Don't speak for rational people. It's insulting. Either way, OP, I think we found your answer here. 144.160.138.142 (talk) 22:14, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

All I've done is link you to our sourcing policies and asked you to present your sources. Something you still haven't even started. Sergecross73 msg me 01:27, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

You have not "linked me" or "asked me" a single thing. This was my first time looking at this page, and your behavior has been noticeably hostile throughout.

But if you are asking me now, then sure, here is some sales data for right now, current year, current time, and thus indisputably the current "gen":

https://www.gematsu.com/2024/09/famitsu-sales-9-16-24-9-22-24

You may notice that the Switch, PS5, and Xbox are in direct market competition in both software and hardware. You can also go to any store you please and see giant sections for "Switch", "PS5", and "Xbox" right next to each other. Again, blatantly in direct competition for video game sales during the current time period. It is utter lunacy that your page states there are only two competitors, when anyone with eyes can clearly see three. Or is Wikipedia just a marketing site now? I mean those sales numbers sure do look good when you're deliberately ignoring the system that's outselling both of them combined.

But please, I could use a good laugh, let me know how these cold hard facts from professionally-gathered data are somehow less "reliable" than the random author opinion pieces you found four years ago on the internet. Or feel free to check out any of the numerous links already shown to you that say the Switch is current gen. You seem to enjoy cherry-picking exactly which sources are "reliable" based on which ones agree with you, hence this entire topic. So what's your opinion on actual evidence-based facts? Do we just ignore these if we can find enough people posting "the Earth is flat" onto their online journals?

And in fact, none of your "reliable sources" cite anything at all! There's zero facts whatsoever behind their declarations. Random no-name blogger goes off gushing that the PS5 is the future of all gaming, and suddenly it's copied down here. Leading to subsequent articles where the only "fact source" is this very same Wikipedia page. This is the very thing that Wikipedia is NOT supposed to be complicit in! And apparently Wikipedia itself is actually the sole authority for hard cut-off dates for a "generation", and as of now you are branching off into defining the standard for how much "specs" a system needs to have in order to be included. (Though looking into this, I see the entire concept of "console generations" was actually a huge fuck up that Wikipedia created themselves, so I guess it's just par for the course over here. All hail the new IEEE, I guess.)

I 100% agree that this article should've been "current game consoles", where it simply states all consoles currently active on the market, and what they are all doing. And we should let history decide how long this competition lasts, how intense it is, and when it "ends". And ONLY once it is over and irrelevant should we attempt to package it into an epoch. Doing otherwise is having Wikipedia force the historical narrative, which is NOT what an encyclopedia does! And yes, I read the part about them waiting "THREE WHOLE MONTHS!" before making this page. I am still cracking up about how utterly ridiculous that defense was.

But more importantly, the question isn't what damage this has already done. The question is what is the plan of action? Are we going to course-correct and fix this clusterfuck? Actually make the "current consoles on the market" page that is so desperately needed, list ALL competitors taking part, and then LATER determine what the climate was like during the affected years? And even if it might be too late to revamp this page and salvage the wreck here, and even if Wikipedia has already forced the public's narrative irrevocably, has anyone actually learned their lesson and won't be repeating this again in the future? Are the two people who seem to be directly responsible for this whole debacle going to hold accountability and show any responsibility for their actions? 144.160.138.142 (talk) 22:00, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

You spend a lot of time finger pointing and complaining, but what is your proposed path forward, and what are your sources that support it? I've never seen so many complaints from someone who has refused to draft up a single line of prose or provide reliable sources for it. Sergecross73 msg me 22:07, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Can you not read?

"I 100% agree that this article should've been "current game consoles", where it simply states all consoles currently active on the market, and what they are all doing."

"Actually make the "current consoles on the market" page that is so desperately needed, list ALL competitors taking part, and then LATER determine what the climate was like during the affected years?"

Let me know which of these words are hard for you to understand, and I can direct you to a dictionary.

And I can also help with your computer issues, so let me know why your browser seems unable to open the link I've already presented to you showing actual hard data. 144.160.138.142 (talk) 22:13, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

You're not following. What literal prose would you add to the article, and what sources would you use to support that statement? Sergecross73 msg me 22:21, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

We waited on creating the article on Ninth Gen until we had reliable sources routinely calling the PS and Xbox consoles as Ninth Gen. We then sat and waited for sources to at least suggest that the switch was possibly in the Ninth Gen before adding that. When the switch came out, no one was calling that the start of the Ninth gen, and still considered it eighth gen. We are avoiding the mistake of trying to define the Ninth gen because of our own original research, as what happened with the earlier generations. — Masem (t) 23:26, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Who are these "vast majority of people who are in disagreement with them"? Most editors in fact agree with them and have since the original discussion about this. But very few editors have the patience to argue again and again with the vocal minority's misguided unsourced arguments that ignore Wikipedia's policies and guidelines and try to push their own interpretations that inevitably devolve into personal insults. Because no matter how many times the answer to the section's question is "provide reliable source", no sources are ever forthcoming. I fear the day Serge or Masem get tired and someone else has to waste time on this. —  HELLKNOWZ ∣ TALK 23:33, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. This is exactly it. Without myself and Masem, this article would be in a constant state of flux and chaos because every "gamer" out there has a different hot take on how the generations should be classified/organized, and most passerbys don't understand Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. And I believe that's what they're referring to when they say "most are against us" - they're referring to every half-baked comment mentioned in passing on this talk page scattered over the course of the last 4+ years of talk page comments, which is, of course, not how Wikipedia builds a consensus. Sergecross73 msg me 00:28, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Agreed.

I actually find it comical that someone is arguing that the Switch is a 9th gen console. Alawadhi3000 (talk) 17:37, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 October 2024

new pic of the new PS5 Pro Console Andi01002 (talk) 07:46, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

 Not done - The edit request system is for making specific edits, so this would only work if you already had a specific image and just needed someone to add it on your behalf. Sergecross73 msg me 10:49, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Reorganization

I obviously disagree with the following order of ninth-generation consoles: PlayStation 5 → Xbox Series X/S. I know what to do with the consoles in order, so I've come up with two options:

Reorganize

The Xbox Series X/S was released before the PlayStation 5, so the new order should be as follows: Xbox Series X/S → PlayStation 5.

Do nothing

The PlayStation 5 was announced before the Xbox Series X/S.

Which option would you choose? One-Winged Devil (talk) 18:45, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

I reviewed the full line of generation articles like this one (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8), and it looks like they all order consoles by release date except this one (notable exception of 8th gen, which sorts by first release date from the manufacturer during that generation, which puts the switch kind of out of place but next to Nintendo). I would be in favor of your proposal to reorganize, Xbox did release first (excluding Switch, which has been debated ad-nauseum already) Darkage7_[Talk] 19:43, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

The Switch is out of place on the 8th generation page anyway, given it’s by all objective measures more associated with the 9th. 2600:1702:696A:F9A0:ECE0:470B:670E:769E (talk) 20:20, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

That's not exactly a persuasive response for something that has been "debated ad nauseum". Sergecross73 msg me 20:46, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

The "ad nauseum" debate is essentially you and another person stonewalling any arguments to the contrary, which has only continued to look more ridiculous as we're entering 2025 and both the PS5 and Xbox are acknowledged to be in the latter half of their life cycles. 2600:1702:696A:F9A0:5D9B:662A:5C19:7E4A (talk) 14:27, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Not true at all, but feel free to start a new discussion to see for yourself. You're not going to get anywhere here, in the middle of a discussion largely about something else. Sergecross73 msg me 14:40, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

Why do people obsess over this sort of stuff? Why does it even matter?Sergecross73 msg me 20:04, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

For all purposes, the week difference is nothing, so it makes sense to present in alphabetical order. Masem (t) 21:01, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

But there are week differences in all the prior pages that don't cause that 2604:3D09:1F7F:8B00:FC1F:D235:ABD4:3B7F (talk) 23:05, 13 December 2024 (UTC)