Talk:Faith of Our Fathers (short story): Difference between revisions

Content deleted Content added

Inline

Latest revision as of 21:54, 7 February 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Faith of Our Fathers (short story) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1

Novels: Short story / Sci-fi Mid‑importance

	Novels portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Novels, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to novels, novellas, novelettes and short stories on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the general Project discussion to talk over new ideas and suggestions.NovelsWikipedia:WikiProject NovelsTemplate:WikiProject Novelsnovel
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by Short story task force.
	This article is supported by Science fiction task force.

The key idea of Faith of our Fathers is left out of the plot summary

The key idea (or at least, one of them) in this story is that the shared hallucination of a coherent "Party leader" is misleading, and that when one stops taking drugs (or takes anti-hallucinogenics) each person will perceive the leader differently; to one is a monster, to the other a robot, etc. The anti-intuitive idea is that the "real" Leader is coherent, when that's the hallucination, and in "reality" the Leader looks different to each observer. Typical Philip Dick! Though I don't know if it's ok to write this spoiler in the plot summary? The andf (talk) 18:02, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I say we should add it. A plot summary should include how the plot ends. The IMDb can worry about spoilers.TheBaron0530 (talk) 21:54, 7 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+{{Talk header}}
-{{NovelsWikiProject
+{{WikiProject banner shell|class=Start|
-|class=start
+{{WikiProject Novels|importance=mid|short-story-task-force=yes|sf-task-force=yes}}
-|importance=mid
-|needs-infobox=yes
-|short-story-task-force=yes
-|sf-task-force=yes
 }}
+== The key idea of Faith of our Fathers is left out of the plot summary ==
-Hmm. This is one of the most challenging and distubing stories in the small sub-genre of [[religious science fiction]], and deserves a more thorough article, particularly since Dick himself relates it to his loss of faith, and that it also prefigures his later religious epiphany.
+The key idea (or at least, one of them) in this story is that the shared hallucination of a coherent "Party leader" is misleading, and that when one stops taking drugs (or takes anti-hallucinogenics) each person will perceive the leader differently; to one is a monster, to the other a robot, etc. The anti-intuitive idea is that the "real" Leader is coherent, when that's the hallucination, and in "reality" the Leader looks different to each observer. Typical Philip Dick! Though I don't know if it's ok to write this spoiler in the plot summary? [[User:The andf|The andf]] ([[User talk:The andf|talk]]) 18:02, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
-What does it mean to say the God of "Faith of our Fathers" is "evil"? Dick implies strongly in the story that the Leader is revealed to be either God or, at the very least a [[demiurge]], rather than simply some alien creature. The horrific theme of this story questions our assumption that an all-powerful, all-knowing being would have our best interests at heart. This is what the story is about; using the word "evil" here trivialises the doubt and fear and moral concerns that are at the heart of this story.
+:I say we should add it.  A plot summary should include how the plot ends.  The IMDb can worry about spoilers.[[User:TheBaron0530|TheBaron0530]] ([[User talk:TheBaron0530|talk]]) 21:54, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
-Dick would later revisit this theme in ''[[Rautavaara's Case]]'', where the God of the aliens in that story is not God the shepherd, but God the [[top predator]], and the aliens are horrified by the, to them blasphemous, sacrament of the [[eucharist]]. Dick has the aliens say:
-:"They drink the blood of their God; they eat his flesh; that way they become immortal. To them, there is no scandal in this. They find it perfectly natural. Yet to us it is dreadful. That the worshiper should eat and drink its God? Awful to us; awful indeed. A disgrace and a shame-an abomination. The higher should always prey on the lower; the God should consume the worshiper."
--- [[User:The Anome|The Anome]] 09:53, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
-== Quote citation ==
-If anyone has a copy to hand, that quote (about offending many people) is included in one of the collections of short stories published in the UK (I understand different publications exist in the US) where relevant quotes are published at the end of the book. My copy is a few weeks away from me at present, can someone else cite in the mean time? I'll look it up when I get back to my parents, but don't delete it in the meantime [[User:Alastairward|Alastairward]] 11:50, 7 February 2007 (UTC)