Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rob Knox: Difference between revisions

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This is an archive of a closed deletion discussion for the article Rob Knox. Please do not modify it. The result was "no consensus". The actual discussion is hidden from view for privacy reasons but can still be accessed by following the "history" link at the top of the page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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+<table class="plainlinks messagebox standard-talk" style="width:100%; background:#F3F9FF; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 5px 10px 5px 10px;"><tr><td style="width:60px;">[[Image:Icon file cabinet.png|50px|Articles for deletion archives]]</td><td>''This is an archive of a closed [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deletion]] discussion for the article [[Rob Knox]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> The result was "no consensus".  The actual discussion is [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy#Courtesy blanking|hidden from view for privacy reasons]] but can still be accessed by following the "history" link at the top of the page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]).  No further edits should be made to this page.'' </td></tr></table><!-- inserted using Template:afd-privacy -->
-===[[Rob Knox]]===
-{{REMOVE THIS TEMPLATE WHEN CLOSING THIS AfD|B}}
-:{{la|Rob Knox}} (<span class="plainlinks">[{{fullurl:Rob Knox|wpReason={{urlencode:AfD discussion: [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rob Knox]]}}&action=delete}} delete]</span>) – <includeonly>([[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rob Knox|View AfD]])</includeonly><noinclude>([[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2008 May 24#{{anchorencode:Rob Knox}}|View log]])</noinclude>
-British actor with only one role, a minor part in a major movie, who was recently killed.  [[WP:NOTMEMORIAL]].  As far as I can tell, the article was created after his death, with no real evidence of notability before his death.  My {{tl|PROD}} was deleted by an anon without comment. &mdash; [[User:Arthur Rubin|Arthur Rubin]]  [[User_talk:Arthur_Rubin|(talk)]] 19:21, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Delete''' As he Just Died, Wikipedia is [[WP:NOTMEMORIAL]]. Plus he only has one role so hes not really popular. Also i read the article and someone copyvio the article with a section from the article. As per Note, I like this Article Deleted.--[[User:Pookeo9|Pookeo9]] ([[User talk:Pookeo9|talk]]) 19:24, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Speedy Delete''' I agree with all above.  I notice many seem to think that dying is grounds to be suddenly famous when it is indeed something EVERYONE does at some point. The story is tragic and the bravery of the young man commendable, but still not enough to warrant an article. [[User:OneHappyHusky|OneHappyHusky]] ([[User talk:OneHappyHusky|talk]]) 19:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Speedy Delete.'''  I'm sorry that he's passed away, but we've been inundated lately with articles about glorified extras who are being presented as actors.  These people are not notable per [[WP:ENTERTAINER]]. [[User:Qworty|Qworty]] ([[User talk:Qworty|talk]]) 19:42, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep'''. Meets verifiability standards for having been mentioned in multiple news sources, and is not a [[WP:BIO1E]] event because of his acting career. He's in the next Harry Potter film, for fuck's sake. This is not just an ordinary murder. A short but more than rudimentary article could be written using the existing sources without original research, so I see no real reason why this should be deleted. Also, this doesn't meet any of the speedy criteria as importance through being an actor wouldn't make it an A7.--[[Special:Contributions/81.151.167.179|81.151.167.179]] ([[User talk:81.151.167.179|talk]]) 19:43, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-:<small>— [[User:81.151.167.179|81.151.167.179]] ([[User talk:81.151.167.179|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/81.151.167.179|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. {{ #if:  | The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added at {{{2}}} (UTC).}}</small>. [[User:WWGB|WWGB]] ([[User talk:WWGB|talk]]) 00:57, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*:I didn't nominate it for speedy, as the fact that his role is not major is not ''immediately'' obvious.  But we don't even have an article for the character in Wikipedia; it's a pointer to a subsection on a group formed by a minor [[Hogwarts]] teacher.  &mdash; [[User:Arthur Rubin|Arthur Rubin]]  [[User_talk:Arthur_Rubin|(talk)]] 19:51, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*:On the other hand, we don't ''know'' he's in the film.  It's still in post-production, and he could be cut.  &mdash; [[User:Arthur Rubin|Arthur Rubin]]  [[User_talk:Arthur_Rubin|(talk)]] 19:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*::He's in the film, just see [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2876996 Imdb.com about the movie] --[[Special:Contributions/80.203.70.235|80.203.70.235]] ([[User talk:80.203.70.235|talk]]) 20:06, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*::: Simply being in a Harry Potter film is not evidence of notability.  There are many actors and actresses who have appeared in the series (sometimes in multiple films) who lack their own pages.  Take Eleanor Columbus, who has not only been in two of the films, but has appeared in several other movies - see her [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0173384/ IMDb page] - plus has a famous father.  If she is not considered notable, then there's no way that Robert Knox can be.  --[[User:Tailkinker|Tailkinker]] ([[User talk:Tailkinker|talk]]) 20:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Delete''': An actor with only one bit part under his belt (in an as-yet unreleased film) is simply not notable.  His death, while tragic, is equally not of sufficient note to warrant a page, and is only receiving this level of coverage because of the very minor link to the Potter franchise.  As stated by others, [[WP:NOTMEMORIAL]] and [[WP:ENTERTAINER]] have to be applied here.  --[[User:Tailkinker|Tailkinker]] ([[User talk:Tailkinker|talk]]) 19:54, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep'''. He is in numerous news sources, and is playing in the latest Harry Potter film. A speedy deletion only sounds like misuse of power to me. --[[Special:Contributions/80.203.70.235|80.203.70.235]] ([[User talk:80.203.70.235|talk]]) 19:55, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*:Regarding the fact numerous news sources are reporting death.  I am not sure how that matters, no one is disputing it is newsworthy, however, that still does not mean he meets notability standards.  Further, I think it should be noted that even these numerous articles refer to the his role in Harry Potter being minor.  "Rob Knox, who had a small part in the next Harry Potter film..." BBC News -- "...was to appear in a small part in the new Harry Potter film"  Times Online  -- "A teenage actor who had a small role in the next Harry Potter film" CBBC Newsround, just to name a few. [[User:OneHappyHusky|OneHappyHusky]] ([[User talk:OneHappyHusky|talk]]) 20:08, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Weak delete''' He came close to notability and probably would ultimatly have hit the mark, but his death has prevented that. He's a long way from being a speedy candidate, though. [[User:Blood Red Sandman|<font color="red">'''Blood Red Sandman'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Blood Red Sandman|<font color="red">(Talk)</font>]]  [[Special:Contributions/Blood Red Sandman|<font color="red">(Contribs)</font>]]</sup> 20:26, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-* '''Redirect''' to [[Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (film)]] '''[[User:Sceptre|Sceptre]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Sceptre|talk]])</sup> 20:48, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Comment.'''  Some of the people weighing in here need to brush up on WP notability policies, in particular [[WP:NOTMEMORIAL]] and [[WP:ENTERTAINER]].  Just because this guy was in the news ''does not'' make him notable.  Just because he had a small part in one film ''does not'' make him notable.  And, given the fact that he's tragically passed away, it's highly doubtful that he'll ever be doing anything in the future in order to meet [[WP:BIO]], [[WP:N]], [[WP:V]], [[WP:ENTERTAINER]], etc. etc. [[User:Qworty|Qworty]] ([[User talk:Qworty|talk]]) 21:06, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Delete''': As he was to play, I think that he is not notable. Speedy deletion.--[[User:Lemur12|Lemur12]] ([[User talk:Lemur12|talk]]) 21:16, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Delete''': This guy, however tragic his fate, was intended to play a minor role in the upcoming Potter movie, his role was minute (he was invited to Slughorn's party but was then ditched). Fails [[WP:N]]. I actually auditioned for the role of Harry Potter many years ago but I can't see myself notable enough for an article ——[[User:RyanLupin|<font face="Ravie"><font color="#000066">Ryan</font></font>]] | [[User talk:RyanLupin|<font face="Ravie"><font color="grey">t</font></font>]] • [[Special:Contributions/RyanLupin|<font face="Ravie"><font color="grey">c</font></font>]] 21:45, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Delete'''  Death does not make an individual notable, nor does an uncredited (as is most likely here) role in a film, albeit a major one.  --[[User:InDeBiz1|InDeBiz1]] <small>[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editor_review/InDeBiz1 Review me!] / [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:InDeBiz1 Talk to me!]</small> 21:59, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Delete'''. Does not meet standards for [[WP:ENTERTAINER|inclusion as an actor]]. Death does not further his claim to notability. --[[User:Dhartung|Dhartung]] | [[User talk:Dhartung|Talk]] 22:35, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Delete''' per [[User:Dhartung|Dhartung]] & others. Sad, but not what Wikipedia is meant for. --[[User:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#0000FF">Rodhull</span>]][[User_talk:Rodhullandemu|<span style="font-family:Verdana;color:#FF0000">andemu</span>]] 23:21, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''' per [[User:royalrec|royalrec]] Why is everybody so quick in shouting "delete"? That he had just this one role, OK. But he made it in several popular newspapers. OK, the article could be more, but, well I am in the keep fraction.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|comment]] was added at 23:27, 24 May 2008 (UTC)</small><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
-*'''Delete'''. Notability not established by his short career. Nature of death does not confer notability. [[User:WWGB|WWGB]] ([[User talk:WWGB|talk]]) 23:37, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''' I see the news, I do the search, and sure enough it's AfD. When is it going to be admitted AfD, as currently practised, is becoming a drain on Wikipedia? To go through the formalities though: Multiple sources, appearance in a ''very'' high-profile film. Obvious keep. [[User:Dekkappai|Dekkappai]] ([[User talk:Dekkappai|talk]]) 23:38, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
-:*'''Comment''' A ''minor role'', as noted by a majority of the stories that I've ready about the subject today, does not necessarily make this individual notable, per policy.  If someone can cite any other films or theater productions in which he appeared in a more significant role, then I might be willing to consider changing my vote.  As far as I've been able to research to this point, his death is the only thing - outside of that ''minor'' role in the next HP film - that has brought him even '''close''' to the notability threshold.  --[[User:InDeBiz1|InDeBiz1]] <small>[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editor_review/InDeBiz1 Review me!] / [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:InDeBiz1 Talk to me!]</small> 00:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Weak delete'''. The attention is due to the association with the Potter franchise rather than any notability on his part; I think it's not much different than if a crew member were to die during the production of one of the films - there would be a news report, but the crew member wouldn't merit an article. Mentioning Knox's death in the article for the film would be an appropriate solution, IMO. [[User:MisfitToys|MisfitToys]] ([[User talk:MisfitToys|talk]]) 00:45, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Delete'''. Sadly, young man was killed but he isn't notable person. Wikipedia is not memorial. --[[User:Paukrus|Paukrus]] ([[User talk:Paukrus|talk]]) 01:21, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''' he existed and had a role in a major movie. '''[[User:Monobi|Monobi]]''' (''[[User talk:Monobi|talk]]'') 01:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Delete'''. If not for his death, no one would even know who he was and the article would not have been created in the first place. His roles thus far have not been noteworthy enough no matter the popularity of the films themselves (there are hundreds of other people in any given movie called "extras" that never receive any credit. Just being in the movie is not enough for an article to be created for each of them). Therefore, since WP is [[WP:NOTMEMORIAL|Not a memorial]], that alone is not reason for the article's existence. — [[User:CobraWiki|CobraWiki]] <sup>([[User talk:CobraWiki| <font color="darkgreen">jabber</font>]] | [[Special:Contributions/CobraWiki|<font color="blue">stuff </font>]])</sup> 02:27, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''' per comments by Dekkappai--[[User:UnknownForEver|→ Ãlways Ãhëad]] ([[User talk:UnknownForEver|talk]]) 02:58, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''' [[User:Proxy User|Proxy User]] ([[User talk:Proxy User|talk]]) 03:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Regrettable delete''' - unless of course someone can show more than [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2876996/ this single minor part in a major movie] in his filmography OR show other reasons he is notable. <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Davidwr|Davidwr]] ([[User talk:Davidwr|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Davidwr|contribs]]) </small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
-*'''Comment''' I have already weighed in as a Speedy Delete, but I have two more points to make.  First, I wanted this article to work, if you look at history you will see I contributed to the expansion of it.  To do so I did an internet search and unfortunately found NOTHING about this young man but his death, nothing in archives prior to his death and IMDb lists ONLY the Harry Potter role.  His own hometown newspaper did not mention his role in Harry Potter until he died.  Sadly, this brave young man is notable only for how he died.  Second, his heroic death.  Many people die protecting loved ones, people with histories far more notable than "minor/small" parts in a big movie.  There is a local police officer who was killed in the line of duty in 2006, protecting fellow officers from a deranged gun man.  This man was formerly a prosecuting attorney who was involved in several locally high profile cases, left that job to be a police man in his crime ridden hometown hoping to make it a better place.  He was a civic leader and helped to formulate the national (in the United States) "Weed and Seed" program, "a community-based strategy sponsored by the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ), an innovative, comprehensive multiagency approach to law enforcement, crime prevention, and community revitalization".  Steve Cox has no Wiki article because he does not meet notability requirements.  Certainly he is more notable than an 18 year old with four lines in a big movie who died protecting his brother in a bar fight.  Notability standards exist, whether all approve or not and this young man simply does not meet them. [[User:OneHappyHusky|OneHappyHusky]] ([[User talk:OneHappyHusky|talk]]) 04:21, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''': meets notability requirements.--[[User:Bedford|<font color="black">'''Bedford'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Bedford|<font color="pink">Pray</font>]]</sup> 06:53, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Re-direct''' to either [[List of Harry Potter cast members]] or ''[[Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince (film)]]'', per above. His death can be mentioned in the HBP article (as I already did), but a very minor role in one film and ''The Bill'' does not qualify much notability. [[User:Gran2|Gran]]<sup>[[User talk:Gran2|2]]</sup> 07:30, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Comment''' This article sounds more suited to Wikinews to Wikipedia, but the article says he also appeared in multiple tv shows - Tonight With Trevor McDonald, The Bill (which is broadcast in over 55 countries), and other tv shows. [[User:Andjam|Andjam]] ([[User talk:Andjam|talk]]) 07:36, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*:'''Comment''': It's an article in the News of the World, which is hardly what you'd call a bastion of journalistic integrity. The IMDb, which is generally quite comprehensive, only mentions his minor role in the upcoming Potter film, which makes his suggested appearances in many other shows at best as an extra, which is not notable, and at worst completely wrong.  --[[User:Tailkinker|Tailkinker]] ([[User talk:Tailkinker|talk]]) 09:22, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Delete''' Non-notable before death, even less notable now. [[User:Lugnuts|Lugnuts]] ([[User talk:Lugnuts|talk]]) 08:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''': It is incorrect to state that he only had one acting role, in addition to Harry Potter he has appeared on TV in the Bill, and has been interviewerd in the press, regarding the fact that he was the victim of bullying.  His death has been front page news for the last 24 hours, and is one of a growing number of Knife crimes, it is an important news story. (UTC)  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Singatoka|Singatoka]] ([[User talk:Singatoka|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Singatoka|contribs]]) </small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
-*'''Comment''' I can understand the issues here - but in all honesty the movie has cultural significance, and as the movie that he's in is due to be released soon, I'd suggest it is relevant.  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Rai o sunshine|Rai o sunshine]] ([[User talk:Rai o sunshine|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Rai o sunshine|contribs]]) 09:45, 25 May 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
-*'''Keep''': I can't post a link for some reason, but if anyone wants to read the news story about this murder on the Daily Mail website will find confirmation of Rob Knox's prior TV role in "The Bill". (UTC)  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Singatoka|Singatoka]] ([[User talk:Singatoka|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Singatoka|contribs]]) </small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
-:'''Comment'''. How many times are you planning to vote Singatoka? [[User:WWGB|WWGB]] ([[User talk:WWGB|talk]]) 14:00, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''' - Agreement with the comments above. [[User:Scanlan|Scanlan]] ([[User talk:Scanlan|talk]]) 11:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''', agreeing with comments above. --[[User:Soetermans|Soetermans]] ([[User talk:Soetermans|talk]]) 11:55, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''', this is an interesting article and the news is in direct contrast with the upcoming release of the new HP film where Knox plays a character with a fairly significant role in the film.   --[[Special:Contributions/86.160.161.40|86.160.161.40]] ([[User talk:86.160.161.40|talk]]) 13:49, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-:<small>— [[User:86.160.161.40|86.160.161.40]] ([[User talk:86.160.161.40|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/86.160.161.40|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. {{ #if:  | The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added at {{{2}}} (UTC).}}</small>. [[User:WWGB|WWGB]] ([[User talk:WWGB|talk]]) 14:00, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''': He played in a major film, and also in the series ''[[The Bill]]'' and ''[[Tonight with Trevor McDonald]]''. --[[User:Dogah|Dogah]] ([[User talk:Dogah|talk]]) 13:53, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*:'''Comment''' he ''appeared'' '''''once''''' on Tonight, and the extremly extensive [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0084987/fullcredits#cast full credits for The Bill] doesn't even list him.  I can hardly say his inclusion on either of those should given any merit to his article. [[User:Chris Mason|Chris M.]] ([[User talk:Chris Mason|talk]]) 17:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''' Important figure, both politically and entertainment-wise.  [[Special:Contributions/69.14.38.16|69.14.38.16]] ([[User talk:69.14.38.16|talk]])  <small>—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|comment]] was added at 14:35, 25 May 2008 (UTC)</small><!--Template:Undated--> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
-*:I disagree, how is he important politically?  [[WP:MEMORIAL|Because he died tragically]]?  Entertainment wise he had a "minor" or "small" role in the new HP movie, just like hundreds of other people, having a minor role even in a huge movie does not make you notable per policies.  He's in the news because he died, and dying doesn't make you notable enough to be on Wikipedia, no matter the manner in which it happened.  [[User:Chris Mason|Chris M.]] ([[User talk:Chris Mason|talk]]) 17:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''' as per Dogah and Dekkappai.--[[User:JForget|<font color = "orange">'''JForget''' </font>]] 15:50, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*Regrettable '''delete''', minor role in unreleased film, two minor roles in TV (''Tonight with Trevor McDonald'' is a consumer magazine show so his work on it would probably as extra or in "reconstruction" footage: probably not enough to even merit a programme credit). Would be entirely unknown but for his tragic death. '''[[User:W guice|<font face="arial" color="#bb0000">tomasz.</font>]]''' 16:45, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''' per Dogah [[User:Tenio|Tenio]] ([[User talk:Tenio|talk]]) 16:49, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Delete''' as I sated a few spots up, he's not listed on the credits for The Bill, and apparantly only appeared once on Tonight, had a minor role in an unreleased movie, and died tragically.  That is not [[WP:N]], sorry. [[User:Chris Mason|Chris M.]] ([[User talk:Chris Mason|talk]]) 17:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*:Though I think all "speedy" claims have no place here. [[User:Chris Mason|Chris M.]] ([[User talk:Chris Mason|talk]]) 17:38, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
-*'''Keep''' Damn woodchucks, he's in a major movie.  Currently the article of his death is the most viewed article on cnn.com.  He's notable [[User:James1906|James1906]] ([[User talk:James1906|talk]]) 17:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)